PES Stats Discussion Thread

[millossobek]

You guys remember the old PES Stats Database forum where player stats were discussed, particularly for the old-school PES?



http://web.archive.org/web/20210516220218/https://pesstatsdatabase.com/viewtopic.php?t=3496

Well, the website has been down for a few months now I believe (I've been accessing PES Stats Databse forum through the Wayback Machine, link above for the Zizou discussion thread).. I'd like to start a similar culture here in evoweb, but not only for retro PES but also for the newer edition ones, basically a place where we can discuss player stats (both current and former players) and how they may reflect reality and could be open for interpretation.

I was looking for a similar thread to this here but couldn't find one.. I'd lke to see if any of you might be interested in this kind of thread, and if there is some interest, we can get the ball rolling with players whose stats we want to discuss/feel like they may need modification, according to our perception of their abilities. The old PES Stats Database threads even divided the players by eras (for example, early 20's, mid to late 20's, 30's and so on), and stats would change of course depending on how the community (or any individual poster) might think of them!

Let me know if this is an idea that might interest any of you!

 

[vialli82]

I was looking for a similar thread to this here but couldn't find one..

That's my fault : i was about opening a thread about it especially for current one with explanations, but believe me, a booklet like the one for Mortal Kombat II would be more appropriated than a post in a forum 😅

It was about "why they removed X stats" then "Correlation" (the hardest part) Physics engine vs Stats, and the most important to me is how to represent a player style with stats + skills.

 

[millossobek]

Haha right! It would take a very loong booklet to compile them all, but I have an idea.

For example, whenever we are discussing a player, I can edit a hyperlink in the first post (like a shortcut), so that we can index them. Could be a long, long process but if we discuss the players one by one, maybe it could be doable. What do you think bro?

 

[vialli82]

Hmmm there's too much players to do and we need to be more than 5 to re-cense let's say 20+ years of players in PES that but that's not a bad idea.
I purposed to PSD something similar and they're +- 7 or 8, but it wasn't as much people.

Also, we tend to forget average but good players, it's always the big ones, Golden ball winners etc.

>First thing i would do : as PES 5 is the favourite of everyone here, to make a listing of players which wrong stats and correct them. For example Dimitri Payet is listed as CF then two PES later they correct him as an AI/MO more creative playmaker oriented. I changed it on my PS5 version, but i got not idea for every single players in the game so a bit of help would be appreciated.

No need to gives a full set, not always increasing players, that's not my thing : i prefers to keep the amount/cost similar more or less... With one exception if that tool exist :

It's perhaps something that i misunderstood with another tool, but i think there was a old one (probably lost) which sent you the cost of the player when he's regenerated.
With that thing, i took the player not at his peak but when he started to grown up, then apply the "regen" tool with stats he would have in PES 5.
That would be an awesome new way to search Wonderkids like in FM. Even if we already know who they are lol.

Also another way to select your players, not only the same players, but you may include one wonderkid on the starting 11 or to enter in the game at half time.

 

[vialli82]

Now if you found old values from PSD / Just forget they're overrated as hell.

Currently, i noticed another issue : is not that they overate players but don't give as much difference in terms of stats between them. They always got 80 at least in 3 stats and a bit too high values in passing i noticed too. Kicking power is a bit too high, 95% over or equal 80, even for old version it's too high.

Edit: for my second post, it needs another thread and some motivated people. From almost every countries regarding the Others Europe less known players.
About NT players, i can check myself.

 

[millossobek]

Sounds good! If you want, you can get the ball rolling with PES 5 players, we can start with them, and take it from there! Perhaps you could do them one by one, or in any method you'd like.. I think starting with PES 5 could be a good idea.. Then again, if you're going to do some players, perhaps you could also edit one of your posts to act as an "index"?

 

[vialli82]

Sounds good! If you want, you can get the ball rolling with PES 5 players, we can start with them, and take it from there! Perhaps you could do them one by one, or in any method you'd like.. I think starting with PES 5 could be a good idea.. Then again, if you're going to do some players, perhaps you could also edit one of your posts to act as an "index"?

I prefers to keep your topic safe and only talk about stats and influence etc., then i will open in the same time as i release my PES 5 stuffs another about errors in PES, the 5 to start as it's the "Evo-people choice awards" game lol.

I already corrected a lot of them (for not having a future Higuain with MOC as a main position lol, even if he started more ML and sometimes MO but when they're young... It's hard for managers to found where on the pitch they excel the best)

But i won't lie, for the moment i'm not in my best form. I think i will finish PES 5 then correct JL2008CC stuffs and then i will stop a bit editing. Needs a break playing some Souls like games or History like Ghost of Tsushima as i love that era when Mongols attacked Japan in history etc.

 

[millossobek]

Oh ok, cool. So pretty much I will keep the topic open and then whenever you'd like you can release your PES 5 information in a different thread, if I understood you correctly.

I have a few PES players I would like to "correct", so I'll keep this topic untouched for now to see if there is more interest and maybe in the next few days I'll start with a few players. Do you think I should start with the "classic" PES stats or the new-gen ones for the first player? I already have an idea who he will be.. Nationality: Japanese.

 

[vialli82]

Or just Europe World Classics from X version (when they were retired )
Japanese except Nakamura and Nakata 😅

I would suggest first the players who were always not really representative (when they were youth) on any PES to what they will become in the future.
AND overrated players for no reason too are welcome (haha)
To be honest i don't like too much changing ex-Konami's sets... With that exception especially when the player is youth and you got know idea, in 2004, how he will evolve.

The difference is now : we're in the future compared to old games and we know how they will. So i would start with the easy way, two option :

1. old PES > we knew all players. Also about player growth type: some players where promising, but we will never know how they will progress... As they got a big injury and stopped early their career.
2. Newer PES > If you'd like to make stats for more recent player, i suggest PES 2017 to correct players too (as the others games don't fit, or they're too bad or not as older) : 6 years of evolution is enough i believe.

But it's you the chief

 

[slamsoze]

Basically, i always find the PSD stats very overrated, as @vialli82 said, but i think they used to create stats with a specific gameplay in mind. So i can understand their mentality.

I mean, if someone has PES 6 in mind, which now after 16 years, is universally known for its action focus, you can't set a players with something less than 50~60 in Top Speed, cause he will be completely out of synch with the rest gameplay. But if I want to create some old player with his current date age and stats, i should give him some values of less than 40~30.

Then every player, even a CB with the wordt Speed and Acceleration, gets always something 65-70+.

ANd i am usually bad at rating players from scratch. I can evaluate an already created by KONaMi player, but starting from scratch, i am bad at giving stats.

What project i had in min, but now seems impossible for many reasons, time, effort, knowledge, was to create a database with hyperlinks, like PES master, but bridge the gaps of the lost games.

PES master goes : PES 5, 2011 to Present.

IT'S MISSING a lot critical periods for me. Even if we exclude the old games with more archaic rating system, 1 to 10 or to 20?, i think we still need the stats from PES 3-4-6-2008-2009-2010.

But i think it needs a lot of effort, to make it look at least equal as PESMaster.

 

[vialli82]

But i think it needs a lot of effort, to make it look at least equal as PESMaster.

They got a system integrated which transforms the exported database in a full website. But at launch they don't have the real overall, only a month after or more.
I would like to got older overall as my very last planning was to recreate Liga MX with their stats on PES 2021. Perhaps 21-22 season with updated stats and teams from South America/Asia (always outdated since... Efootball.)
When in the same time they update Europe NT since their partnership with UEFA Euro's.

But as long as i don't got the Overall from PES 2021 for calculating the old sets first released without increase/decrease stats, it will be a bit hard to make it accurate.

As long as i hate Efootball, i must admit that their Database is the best since PS2/PS3 era, with practically no errors and accuracy in ratings for "Authentic" players (there's 2 type of players, 1st authentic is the real one, 2nd Dreamteam are like Featured, based on a match or a month i don't know, the player did)

That's the biggest thing i regret when i check on PESMaster the ratings, the changes etc., i'm sincerely jealous in comparison to PES)

 

[vialli82]

Now, to talk about PSD stats : they revamped their system from scratch as it's different guys doing it and with some exceptions (Messi... Maradona*2) Stats for starting 11 players from well known league and starting 11 players are balanced: it's not like before.
But and that's a bad habit they didn't loose : i found some very poor rated players, but they were exception.

The issue now is the difference between average and stars players : stars players are well rated sometimes even lower than in PES, but average or basic players got some stats a bit too high.

Now, one thing that always maked me laugh, when you watch games and you're more or less good to rate a player with PES style, or check his scoring type, or the way he defend or pass : take 5 persons to rate them and you will found almost the same set of stats. So when they said once (in the past) that Konami's, in their bunker in japan, are inspired by their sets... They were a bit too much full of themselve. So i checked after and tons of players where different and some where very lookalike / which is normal if you're good to discern strength and weakness or a player and very familiar with PES rating /...
I don't believe at all that the 7-8 guys in the past on their bunker in Japan took directly PSD stats and corrected it.

BUT what i see is the opposite : PSD copying and upgrading PES stats for players who gets better. So, of course if the player got a better dribbling, in the next version they will increase in Dribble accuracy or Speed, Technique etc.
I was on that website more to analyse PES stats than rating, i said them that, sorry, but i got another vision of stats making. I got more a tendancy to underrate players lol, as i believe that it's a game and they tries to makes "heroes" with their stats. But i'm pretty objective about it. Now i don't have issue to rate players.

If i got a video that's perfect, but for fast making you got to have imagination and deduction. I remember a player from Tel-Aviv, i watched perhaps 1 minutes of the way he played + his status and it was enough to make a set (stats aren't at all something static, and it's not at all an exact science. It's a lot of imagination, why the player don't run too much (often because it's not is strong point) or make a direct pass everytime (Keeping the ball isn't) but participate a lot in all related to aerial activity.

 

[millossobek]

Right! Let's start off with perhaps my favorite Japanese player of all time.. It's not Nakata, it's not Nakamura..

It's Shinji Ono! - PES 5 version.



Nationality: Japan
Team: Feyenoord
League: Eredivisie
Position: CM
Age: 26
Stronger Foot: Right
Height: 175
Weight: 76

Spoiler: Shinji Ono PES 5 Stats

My idea is to set Shinji's "corrected" stats in PES 5, and then do his equivalent in PES 2017. What do I mean? I'd like to make his "young" self, meaning his 26 year old version in BOTH versions (amazingly, he's still playing in 2023 at the age of 43!) We can start with PES 5.

From what I recall, Ono was bit faster, would probably raise his top speed to 77 and acceleration to 76. I think his passing stats are spot on but his technique might be a little lower, not elite 89 but more like 86 or 87. Also I remember him having more stamina, he would run down the wings and was a consistent and durable player.. I'd raise his stamina to 79-80..

Heading is a little high.. I would think 77 is too much, as he was not a tall player at all.. I would lower it to 74, but I'd definitely raise his teamwork to probably 82 or 83. I remember him from World Cups he played quite well with his teammates..

The rest of his stats seem pretty spot on to me.

 

[Kimi85]

@vialli82 @millossobek @slamsoze


Hi guys, hope you're ok

Here i'm Ribas2810 but on twitter and Pesteam.it(Pes Italian Forum) i'm Kimi85.

I was looking to open one similar thread, but i found this one which is very interesting


As i'm continuosly updating PES 21 with my OF, and getting better stats for lots of players, i would ask you some things.


Does the Overall really matter? I mean, Pes has 109 as maximum Overall, so can for example player like Federico Valverde gets 86 as Overall, or Vinicius 87?

Is it real to get players like Kane or Kimmich with 92 as Overall?

I would like to create a big difference between TOP CLASS players, wonderkids and "normal players".

I like to have your thoughts about that

 

[totti88]

@vialli82 @millossobek @slamsoze


Hi guys, hope you're ok

Here i'm Ribas2810 but on twitter and Pesteam.it(Pes Italian Forum) i'm Kimi85.

I was looking to open one similar thread, but i found this one which is very interesting


As i'm continuosly updating PES 21 with my OF, and getting better stats for lots of players, i would ask you some things.


Does the Overall really matter? I mean, Pes has 109 as maximum Overall, so can for example player like Federico Valverde gets 86 as Overall, or Vinicius 87?

Is it real to get players like Kane or Kimmich with 92 as Overall?

I would like to create a big difference between TOP CLASS players, wonderkids and "normal players".

I like to have your thoughts about that

As far as I'm concerned, the overall isn't important, I did various tests with many players and what mattered a lot were the single stats and some skill cards.

 

[vialli82]

@vialli82 @millossobek @slamsoze


Hi guys, hope you're ok

Here i'm Ribas2810 but on twitter and Pesteam.it(Pes Italian Forum) i'm Kimi85.

I was looking to open one similar thread, but i found this one which is very interesting


As i'm continuosly updating PES 21 with my OF, and getting better stats for lots of players, i would ask you some things.


Does the Overall really matter? I mean, Pes has 109 as maximum Overall, so can for example player like Federico Valverde gets 86 as Overall, or Vinicius 87?

Is it real to get players like Kane or Kimmich with 92 as Overall?

I would like to create a big difference between TOP CLASS players, wonderkids and "normal players".

I like to have your thoughts about that

No, it was a more for creating a "range" for data editors. They created players with imposed Konami's limitations by rank, 65-69, 70-74 (the higher rank is 94 for players in activity)
Example : non active they given Zidane or Maradona no more than 95. So they could still make them grown in Myclub or ML (for Zizou).

I found a way to get same sets as in PESMOBILE on PES 2021 otherwhise. Just the system, it's not automatic. It's a bit fastidious as we can search teams by teams with Ejogc editor + his overalls are close but not totally accurate (often rated 93 while IG the player is 92 etc.)

I should be much more simple with the real OVR. In fact, it's a percentage to add, but i still don't get the logic. I just judge +- how much he should get as a % in more and assign it, i'm often wrong so i decrease.

But i suppose it's the number of stats linked with higher important stats which give the % to add. Haaland don't have high stats everywhere but full focus on CF, and he needs from 0.91 as an example to PES 2021 mobile +11% on every stats.
While there's others cases Messi needs something like +7% in Technique stats, and +8% or something like that in Physical stats (sometimes it's 7,35 but we don't give a F)

Same goes for CR7. I don't care right now, i just try to get the overall to have the balance. Overall is important for that guys, That all you balance easier a full database.
So no impact or difference except stronger/weaker, but very important for the whole database and logic of stronger > weaker. But it's more about having a "complete" or a "Very strong in his position" player. There's some players which got 74 and got stats you need for example, an MO if you play on the ground (90 in low pass, 75 in lofted but if you manage it well... It could be a killer)

 

[millossobek]

Does the Overall really matter? I mean, Pes has 109 as maximum Overall, so can for example player like Federico Valverde gets 86 as Overall, or Vinicius 87?

I'm pretty sure the overall is just a "reflection" of all the other stats. It doesn't have a bearing on the "playing style" of a player as far as I know. Of course, it depends on position, so for example a Defensive Midfielder would have more weight in his defensive stats as opposed to a striker etc.. (increasing for example defensive stats would have more bearing on the overall rating). But yeah, I don't think the overall rating has much impact.

Is it real to get players like Kane or Kimmich with 92 as Overall?

I think they are a tad too high.. For me 90 and above are reserved for the truly Superstar players. I think probably 88 would be better suited for Kane. Someone like Benzema could be 92 IMO.

 

[Kimi85]

I'm pretty sure the overall is just a "reflection" of all the other stats. It doesn't have a bearing on the "playing style" of a player as far as I know. Of course, it depends on position, so for example a Defensive Midfielder would have more weight in his defensive stats as opposed to a striker etc.. (increasing for example defensive stats would have more bearing on the overall rating). But yeah, I don't think the overall rating has much impact.


I think they are a tad too high.. For me 90 and above are reserved for the truly Superstar players. I think probably 88 would be better suited for Kane. Someone like Benzema could be 92 IMO.

I did this because in Pes 21(i'm on PS4) it seems that is more easiear win against Top Club than medium or small club for example at Superstar Level..(@vialli82 )

That's why i've increased stats for the top players, just to mark the difference on the field between TOP PLAYER and a "NORMAL" one.

With the previous version of my OF, lots of people told me that the gameplay seems to be much better(unfortunately you couldn't do too much on PS4 in terms of gameplay modding), and i've tried to get more fun facing TOP CLUBS, more satisfaction to beat them and more challenging in terms of experience.

I saw the great work of @PogChampion about his UML even with the stats increased for lots of players, and get inspired by his massive job.

Try to replicate a sort of "scale" about players, also to keep in mind the growth on the ML. In PES 21 players growth is very slow and it's not like in Fifa for example.

I also update teams like Lens or Union Berlin cause they're doing really well in reality, and make them stronger to try to replicate that in the game.

Or updating players like Balogun of Reims(Ligue 1 Top Scorer)bringing him at 78 Overall(which is fair for me) or others, also to have different choices to sign in ML, and not always the same players