PES - FOX Engine Series

[gabe.paul.logan]

Rate the last period and feel free to comment why you picked a certain order.
https://tiermaker.com/create/pes-on-fox-585862?presentationMode=true

Here is my to start the fire:

 

[majuh]

 

[Alvinficco]

for me, Honestly, I really don't like the body models and the PES 20 and 21 clothes, look too big and have small arms, can't show muscles like Adama Traore. indeed the gameplay is much more real, but it can't be enjoyed because for the pass alone, I find it difficult, and when I see pro players playing it still looks like a fool who passes the ball. and also the gameplay is very slow, I can't enjoy the speed of players like mbappe, dembele or sane with their running speed on the side of the field. I prefer PES 19, because the gameplay is cool, the bait is quite easy and reminds me of PES 13, I can feel the excitement of playing with my friends, with a fast game pattern and definitely very challenging and not boring.

 

[Chris Davies]

2014 has response issues, but with its last patch I honestly don't think it's that much laggier than every game since. In terms of simulation, it's the best. In terms of AI, it's decent. I'd be playing it now if it was a little less on-rails and the ML was deeper. No more than a B-.

2017 is so much fun. It's a little too end-to-end and the AI tries to break your legs with every player (turning 7-stone weaklings into anger management psychos)... But the AI is the most varied IMO, and it's joyous - until you get bored of every game being hyperactive. Again, a fair B-.

2015 I remember having a good long ML with. It was a good balance, but without the best bits of the above games. C.

I barely remember 2016 to be honest but I remember feeling it was similar to 2015, making up for the worse bits with better responsiveness. C.

2021 I have now played, and it's better than 2020, but the poor AI, the lack of player individuality (when the AI controls them), physicality being represented by bumper-car players, the referees being absolutely shit... It's nowhere near the level of 2014 and 2017. C-.

2018... After loving 2017 and saying in the Evo-Web review "all they need now is to focus on the off-the-pitch stuff", they made the gameplay worse, and the AI worse (repeating the same stupid patterns all the time with every team). I couldn't believe it. D-.

2019 was better, a little more responsive and a little less stupid, but barely at all. D.

2020 had better ball physics and more freedom, but with worse AI (with intelligence variables actually being removed, according to the gameplay editing guys). D.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Rate the last period and feel free to comment why you picked a certain order.
https://tiermaker.com/create/pes-on-fox-585862?presentationMode=true

Here is my to start the fire:
View attachment 58966

As i commented in the other topic all of these PES games has gamebreaking flaws.
Anything i put in D not worth your money if you like football games or ever played a good football game. If you are collector sure wait for a real price drop like for 3-5 bucks.
PES2014 - it was a broken mess however on the ball it was a great tech demo and had huge potential
PES2015 - it reminded me where in the PS2 days the game shifted towards the arcadey elements however retaining many great aspects and fixed many issues with 2014. However the shooting was OP and keepers were ass. BUT it had the last indeed semi-manual passing mechanics.
PES2021 - its a well improved 2020. It feels like the best PES game on the ball. However the AI is dull, tactics are convoluted, free kicks are OP, keepers are OP, referees are idiot (however the foul system improved over 2020), presentation is not 2020.

The last 8 years was a huge let down. Even a bigger one than the previous generation.

 

[tosser]

Haven't tried 21 yet but it's likely to keep the other two company in D.

 

[PRO_TOO]

2014 has response issues, but with its last patch I honestly don't think it's that much laggier than every game since. In terms of simulation, it's the best. In terms of AI, it's decent. I'd be playing it now if it was a little less on-rails and the ML was deeper. No more than a B-.

2017 is so much fun. It's a little too end-to-end and the AI tries to break your legs with every player (turning 7-stone weaklings into anger management psychos)... But the AI is the most varied IMO, and it's joyous - until you get bored of every game being hyperactive. Again, a fair B-.

2015 I remember having a good long ML with. It was a good balance, but without the best bits of the above games. C.

I barely remember 2016 to be honest but I remember feeling it was similar to 2015, making up for the worse bits with better responsiveness. C.

2021 I have now played, and it's better than 2020, but the poor AI, the lack of player individuality (when the AI controls them), physicality being represented by bumper-car players, the referees being absolutely shit... It's nowhere near the level of 2014 and 2017. C-.

2018... After loving 2017 and saying in the Evo-Web review "all they need now is to focus on the off-the-pitch stuff", they made the gameplay worse, and the AI worse (repeating the same stupid patterns all the time with every team). I couldn't believe it. D-.

2019 was better, a little more responsive and a little less stupid, but barely at all. D.

2020 had better ball physics and more freedom, but with worse AI (with intelligence variables actually being removed, according to the gameplay editing guys). D.

attaboy!

 

[tosser]

2014 has response issues, but with its last patch I honestly don't think it's that much laggier than every game since. In terms of simulation, it's the best. In terms of AI, it's decent. I'd be playing it now if it was a little less on-rails and the ML was deeper. No more than a B-.

2017 is so much fun. It's a little too end-to-end and the AI tries to break your legs with every player (turning 7-stone weaklings into anger management psychos)... But the AI is the most varied IMO, and it's joyous - until you get bored of every game being hyperactive. Again, a fair B-.

2015 I remember having a good long ML with. It was a good balance, but without the best bits of the above games. C.

I barely remember 2016 to be honest but I remember feeling it was similar to 2015, making up for the worse bits with better responsiveness. C.

2021 I have now played, and it's better than 2020, but the poor AI, the lack of player individuality (when the AI controls them), physicality being represented by bumper-car players, the referees being absolutely shit... It's nowhere near the level of 2014 and 2017. C-.

2018... After loving 2017 and saying in the Evo-Web review "all they need now is to focus on the off-the-pitch stuff", they made the gameplay worse, and the AI worse (repeating the same stupid patterns all the time with every team). I couldn't believe it. D-.

2019 was better, a little more responsive and a little less stupid, but barely at all. D.

2020 had better ball physics and more freedom, but with worse AI (with intelligence variables actually being removed, according to the gameplay editing guys). D.

How long did you play 18 for? It was a big disappointment at first but after sticking with it I'm still finding new ways to score after 30+ seasons. It has a hundred times the amount of depth of 19 and 20.

 

[Chris Davies]

How long did you play 18 for? It was a big disappointment at first but after sticking with it I'm still finding new ways to score after 30+ seasons. It has a hundred times the amount of depth of 19 and 20.

Really? It was the AI I couldn't stand, and I don't remember it changing through patches:

Spoiler

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Really? It was the AI I couldn't stand, and I don't remember it changing through patches:

Spoiler

Thats why i cant rate any of the FOX PES games higher than a C....all of them had at least one of these major AI issues. Like a crappy unfinished tech demo. Makes me actually angry.

 

[Madmac79]

B -2017 the best one by far. Only game that gave me that "every match something different could happen" feel, despite being everything but perfect in more than one thing. But, so much fun.

C- 2014 pays it being inacceptably bare bones while showing an excellent base. One of the greatest regrets of the whole saga.
2018 was a lot more love/hate that I'd like to admit. Crazy AI, fucked up tactics, warped physicality but my favourite graphics of this gen and some moments/games in which all clicked that exalted me beyond measure.
2015 I recovered in the past months after pretty much ignoring it at the release. Nice, balanced game, doesn't shine in nothing but seems polished enough.

D - 2016: I've wrote it many times, could have been another nice game like 15 and 17 (possibly even better) but it was practically released half programmed given the conditions keepers and defences were in. Shame.
2019/2020: I just don't like where it all went with this. Less personality and variety in CPU, less satisfaction in scoring. 2020 promised a lot of good things but in the end it didn't last for me. I haven't (and won't) play 2021 but since the things I'm searching for still aren't there I find it logic to put it with the others.

Of course the King is as far as he can be from his reign and I can't find a single one worth a full A.

 

[papinho81]

Here is mine:

 

[Datiss77]

 

[MKC]

This sounds like a fun thread! It's nice to hear what everyone here thinks

For my tier list, i changed it up a bit, mostly because "B" was in the middle.
When i think of "B", i think of a good grade, but when i think of middle, i think of average, so a traditional star system made more sense to me.
I also added a "demo" tier and a "never played" tier, so this wouldn't look too empty.
For a PES fan, i really don't buy these games often, mostly because they're expensive to me, so i only buy them if i feel there was enough improvement and change to justify it.

So, going to the tier list itself, by order of release:

*PES 2014*
Never owned it, but played the full version at a friend's house many times.
This, to me, was a huge dissapointment, like, i was so hyped for it, the animations looked so much more real, the shirts moving reminded me of the PES 4 intro, there was camera customization finally, it felt like a real step up.
Then i played the demo, like, it looked more real, i also loved that the players felt like they had real weight, but everything else... It felt so unresponsive, like, too responsive can make a game arcady, but this was the other extreme and i didn't like the feel of it. The feel of it all in general, the game felt unfinished, it needed more time in the oven, i give it 2 stars for that reason really, there were good, even great things in it, it's just that the whole thing was subpar, and the worst part to me was that it felt like PES was over, like FIFA made the jump to nextgen and there was so much hype for it, while many called this the worst PES ever, it felt like that year Konami would lose the market completely and pull the plug on the whole thing, thankfully they didn't.

*PES 2015*
Playing the demo of this game was such a relief, like, playing PES 2014, it felt like there was a great game somewhere, they just needed more time to fully deliver, and they sure delivered with this one.
It was PES 2014, exactly like it, at least in it's core, but more ironed out, less buggy, more responsive, but not too responsive, it was everything i liked in 2014, with pretty much all of my issues solved.
Especially coming from PES 2012, the animations were something else, the freedom of movement, of where i could play the ball, the shooting, i was in love with this, it felt like this huge step forward, a true evolution.
It does have flaws tho, midfield can either be a great battle between the teams at it's best, but empty and easy to get by at it's worst.
The CPU wouldn't cross, like, ever, they'd always become Robben on the wing, and getting the ball was a pain in this specific situation.
Also, very few fouls.
Still, everything else, superb.
If those issues were ironed out, this would be a 5 star game for me, easily.

*PES 2016* and *PES 2017*
Never played, not even the demos.
Looking at the gameplay, they just looked too similar to PES 2015 to me, like, the impression i got at the time was that PES 2016 was just a more arcady 2015, while PES 2017 was a slightly more realistic and polished 2015.
I apologize to the fans of these two games, i don't mean that they are any of these things, just saying i never felt the need to upgrade, due to these initial impressions, i was fine with what i had really, tho, from reading the forums here, i feel that i should've at least given 2017 a try.

*PES 2018*
Played the demo, hated the way the CPU only played an unstoppable over the top through ball on the wings and nothing else, hated how the wings felt so ridiculously open while the middle felt impossible to play through, hated how headers were the only tactic in which i could score consistently, hated the bigger pitch, so, yeah, i didn't buy it.
Then i downloaded the Lite version, and played MyClub, it was the first time i played online since 2012, i hated this even more than playing the demo offline, it too fast, too end to end, no midfield, the online playstyle just wasn't for me, so i gave up on this game again.
Then, recently, i found it for cheap and got it.
Fully updated, the CPU felt less cheap, i was also scoring more through the middle. It helped that i gave up on my weird need to always play the highest difficulty setting, stupid pride, Professional and Top Player difficulties made the CPU much more varied and less robotic.
The final thing i did that made me love this game was switching to FUMA, to make up for the lower difficulty, finally, i actually appreciated the bigger pitch, due to having more space to pass, i could be so much more creative, it was like finding a new game, since then, i absolutely love this thing, it's on par with 2012 and 2015 to me.
The main problems really are identical to 2015, sometimes the middle feels empty, no fouls, and instead of the CPU always being Robben on the wing, the problem is that the whole thing favours the wing too much, on both sides, so it's more repetitive.
Still, great game.

*PES 2019*
Never played, not even the demo, tho i do want to buy it if i find it for cheap like i did 2018.

*PES 2020 and PES 2021*
Only played the demos, like, 2021 doesn't have a demo, but in theory that is because it's very similar to 2020, so i'm pairing them up.
Like, this felt similar to 2018, just with worse player models, and even worse grass texture.
2018 already had a somewhat cartoony look, except for the models, which were great, but the textures and lighting was subpar for the current gen.
Then 2019 came, i felt the models were a bit more chubby, 2018 got it perfect, but the lighting was better, and the grass looked wonderful.
Then they make both of these things worse, i just don't understand Konami, it baffles me.
So yeah, didn't feel the need to buy it, because gameplay improvements weren't substantial enough, and the graphics had no improvements at all, i rather buy 2019, because it'll probably be cheaper and it looks better than 2018, while these look worse, the grass in 2020 and 2021 night matches can sometimes look like toxic waste to me, idk.

That was a bit long, sorry about that, but idk, i do go on for ages when talking about stuff i like, idk.

 

[millossobek]

Reviving this thread a bit. (I only play PC):

The King is Back: PES 2017. I guess I'll be the first one to put a Fox Engine game in this tier. When it's said and done, PES 2017 is my favorite football game of all time. I think it is insanely fun, well-balanced, and unpredictable. The only issue it has are overpowered crosses, But I can deal with that, I think overall it's a brilliant game, with tons of modding and patching support.

Tier A: PES 2019 and 2021. A disclaimer though: Both of these games belong here WITH gameplay mods. Without them, PES 2019 especially is a scriptfest. But with them, they are both really fun games, with good depth, cutscenes, ambiance and feel. Also both games are very well modded by the community. One thing I would improve about PES 2021 are: more midfield battles.

Tier B: PES 2018 and PES 2015. PES 2018 is a fun game with really nice "video game cartoony" graphics and coloring, but its main drawback is its defensive system, which is not strong enough. Defending in this game is really quite a chore. PES 2015 is a well made and balanced game, but it's lacking in camera mods and also the CPU has its issues with simulated game scores (too high).

Tier C: PES 2014. Nice gameplay overall, innovative defensive system, but too bare-bones. Its ML is perhaps the most boring in the entire saga, which is important for me, since 90% of what I play is ML. Like my friend @Madmac79 said, even though the gameplay is quite solid, the other features are perhaps a bit too basic.

Tier D: PES 2016. Just a broken mess of a gaming experience. The goalkeepers look like children playing a grownup sport, the defenses are awful, and it really ruins the entire play. It is the only PES to date which I uninstalled after only playing a few games.

PES 2020: Never played it!

 

[Madmac79]

Problem with these tiers is that, when we are not talking about straight up broken games (like 16), they can change so swiftly depending on mood and whatnot (or at least it's true for me). For example I'd probably put 21 there with 17 as of now. I'm having so much fun with it!

 

[normazimuth]

How long did you play 18 for? It was a big disappointment at first but after sticking with it I'm still finding new ways to score after 30+ seasons. It has a hundred times the amount of depth of 19 and 20.

Yeah, I wasn't impressed with PES18 at first and only started playing it regularly about 10 months after release, by which time they'd patched it into something pretty good. The AI in PES17 had been good but PES18 impressed me more with the variety and creativity of goals, both by cpu but even more so, by my team-mates when playing on fixed cursor. I still play it now from time to time and still see some lovely goals that take me by surprise and make me applaud at the screen.

With PES19, they seemed to delete the entire AI and replace it with some basic, repetitive, robotic crap....probably building towards eshitball.

 

[Emroth]

Spoiler

If I replied to this when the thread was created - none of these games would got higher rating than B.
But since Football Games situation is beyond dreadful these days and every single release seems to just be getting worse these days - it made me reevaluate the scores and appreciate what we had.

DISCLAIMER:
Never played 14/15/16 - my daughter was born and I was out of action for few years. And only played console editions of the others.
Now, from the bottom up

Pes19 - horrible, soft game with idiotic AI, that only scored by low ball cross and top corner tap in. Criminal edition. D.

Pes20 - could have been something special, but wasnt. Boring AI and samey matches. No shots from distance, ridiculous ball awareness, terrible referee. C.

Pes18 - ironically the reason Im here, coz I was looking for a place to rant. Thats how annoyed I was at this edition at the start. It got better with patches tho. And surprisingly - I had one of the longest Master League runs on it and thats the game where I learned playing on FUMA. B.

PES17 - very solid game overall. Very physical, which I love. Bit too fast and bit too stiff - I wish the ball was more free and manual passing was more free. Still - great game.

Pes21 - im surprised that they fixed that much with seasonal update. AI was shooting from distance, dribbling, making unexpected moves. All this required weeks of manual editing on consoles, but at the end of the day it worked, which proves that all the key ingredients were there under the surface. Konami should have continued with this game. It was very close to Return of The King. Just needed better referees, better ball awareness and slightly better responsiveness. And few penalties every now and then.
It might not deserve A, but Im giving it A, coz in comparison to the shite we have now - this game was fucking phenomenal.

 

[MKC]

Pes18 - ironically the reason Im here, coz I was looking for a place to rant. Thats how annoyed I was at this edition at the start. It got better with patches tho. And surprisingly - I had one of the longest Master League runs on it and thats the game where I learned playing on FUMA. B.

Interesting how similar my story is to yours regarding PES2018, the main difference being that I create my account due to my hate for FIFA19 instead, which I still despise. I was excited for PES2018, more than usual, and when it came out... I was disappointed in the PS3 demo, mostly because the AI kept doing just one play over and over again, a pass to skip all of the midfield to an unmarked striker, that would play a through ball into the wings, which would mostly end in a cross, it got dull and cumbersome quickly. I gave up on it and eventually got myself a PS4 with the FIFA19 bundle, and despised every second, so I gave a chance to the PS4 version of PES2018, since I found it for cheap anyways... and felt the same at the start, until eventually I started lowering the difficulty for a more realistic AI, with players making mistakes every once in a while at least, and lowered my assistance to make up for it, and it got me into FUMA, which is my favorite thing in PES nowadays, it feels so good and fun, it changed the way I play football video games forever and it wouldn't have happened at all if not for PES2018, even if I got to that point for the wrong reasons. I didn't feel the need to buy a new PES after this, besides some Lite versions, it got its job done.

 

[9Dahl]

I am a 100% offline player. my score is based on offline.

PES 2014-2016: The AI was too weak and they had too many errors, meaningless movements... The goalkeepers were very bad. For me the worst

PES 17: The AI had an incredible evolution, both of the players and of the AI teams. It was the way to go, the matches were fun and varied.

PES 18: Not as good as PES 17, but with the updates it got much better and brought to the saga a lot of new animations and graphic improvement, it was a good game, I still play it.

PES 19: the drop in AI began and the entire game began to turn to online content.

PES 20 AND 21: Both pretty bad and focused on online, AI has 3 or 4 attack patterns, but PES 20 version 1.00 was very good.

 

[tosser]

Yeah, I wasn't impressed with PES18 at first and only started playing it regularly about 10 months after release, by which time they'd patched it into something pretty good. The AI in PES17 had been good but PES18 impressed me more with the variety and creativity of goals, both by cpu but even more so, by my team-mates when playing on fixed cursor. I still play it now from time to time and still see some lovely goals that take me by surprise and make me applaud at the screen.

With PES19, they seemed to delete the entire AI and replace it with some basic, repetitive, robotic crap....probably building towards eshitball.

Yeah I hated it when it was released, now I'm on my 58th season. That's how much more I hated everything that followed it

 

[saad]

2014 was absolute garbage, a broken game on release - I got it on PC, then on PS3 in the (vain) hope the console version might run a little better. It was even worse. The patches made it slightly better - not saying much when the bar was so low. Worst game in the entire series.

2015 was an improvement on 14 but still a pretty poor game. I believe this was the one with that utterly mad "feature" where you couldn't even do first-time passes most of the time because the power bar would need five seconds to fill up.

2016 was the first playable game of the PS4 / 360 era, and 2017 was a big step up. I was actually able to play these for a combined 60-70 matches.

2018 was the first in literal years that I actually enjoyed playing. 2019 improved upon it in every way and is up there with the very best of the series. 2020 was a step backwards from '19 in most ways, a curiously slow, clunky, unresponsive game with very poor player AI - 21 fixed most of these things and, with the help of the modding community, is still keeping me entertained

 

[lastbreath]

*PES 2019*
Never played, not even the demo, tho i do want to buy it if i find it for cheap like i did 2018

Bruh... Literally the best PES ever created. Not perfect, but the level of freedom was unreachable! Just don't play on highest difficulties

Pes19 - horrible, soft game with idiotic AI, that only scored by low ball cross and top corner tap in. Criminal edition. D.

I can't argue with that, low ball crosses are 50% of all AI goals. But! Another 50% are the most various! PES19 AI was the only one who could dribble instead constant tiki-taka.

 

[Sami 1999]

After playing the pc ports, I'd say PES 14 is my favourite.

The animations during gameplay look so good, but turning/moving the players doesn't feel that delayed unlike the newer games. And this game has cloth physics damn. A xbox 360 gen game with better cloth physics and animations than all of the xbox one gen games. Good graphics overall.

 

[lastbreath]

Just a little proof of my words:

 

[Hayes]

Yeah, I wasn't impressed with PES18 at first and only started playing it regularly about 10 months after release, by which time they'd patched it into something pretty good. The AI in PES17 had been good but PES18 impressed me more with the variety and creativity of goals, both by cpu but even more so, by my team-mates when playing on fixed cursor. I still play it now from time to time and still see some lovely goals that take me by surprise and make me applaud at the screen.

With PES19, they seemed to delete the entire AI and replace it with some basic, repetitive, robotic crap....probably building towards eshitball.

spot on.....