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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

Trust me - Adam and the developers aren't the same thing. Adam doesn't command them. He represents them.

I've played the demo and I love so much of it, it is truly the best-ever in so many ways - but I can't shake my disappointment with player positioning and the amount of net-bursters. I'm not angry, outraged, disgusted, apoplectic and all of the other angry words people will use. I just can't get past it and it means I struggle to enjoy the game. But the vast majority on here will enjoy the great stuff enough to see past the less-great stuff, and I'm happy with that.

Thing is, based on the beta and demo, it's going to be the best PES ever. I didn't apply this level of scrutiny to PES 5 etc... It was just a brilliant game. And this demo is better.


Sorry to jump in, but for me, it's that shots from defenders are as well-executed as they are by strikers, and "auto" long shots tend to go the same distance wide, in the same place, whereas with manual long shots, you can force a corner *so* easily, whenever you like.

But what really sucks the joy out of me is pressing shoot and seeing another screamer flying into the top corner when I was desperate to see a scruffy shot deflected out for a corner, or even a thump with an odd ball flight that the keeper deflects into the net out of sheer confusion. But no. It's another perfect strike and you know there are only a handful of outcomes.

When a rocket is rare, you jump out the chair.
When it's every shot, it doesn't mean a jot.

As the old rhyme goes.
with respect I disagree.

pes 5 was more fun than this. it's still far too easy to keep possession for a start.

and in pes 5, whilst the shooting wasn't perfect, it was far more varied than this.

this isn't the best pes ever, it's just a really polished pes 2017 - which is a great thing if you loved pes 2017. But I didn't because the flaws outweighed the good stuff.

anyway had my day. Think I might give pes a miss this year, can't see me enjoying it long term.

tomorrow I might feel different with a fresh head today has been long day
 
Lot of people saying it's changed for the worst since beta :FAIL:

As predictable a claim as any that, if that is what you are reading. I remember people saying after a couple of hours play of the beta it was *exactly* the same as PES 2017. Alex Jones levels of conspiracy year in, year out.

I trust very few other opinions these days. Plenty of "fake news!" when it comes to both PES and FIFA. Plenty of agendas being pushed, but of course plenty of valid opinions too.

Think I can count on one hand how many peoples take on the game I can either agree with, or whose critiques I can take in and respect fully.

Edit: oh god! Here we go with the PES 5 discussion.

Yeah, I'm out bar reading and exchanging opinions with a few. Enjoy lads, and enjoy spending more time deconstructing the game or liking negative slanted posts than actually playing it, other lads.
 
Advanced instructions killing the player positioning.

So it's fixable because Advanced Instructions are only contextual and not a thing to have ON the entire match. This + Fluid Formations can fix the player positioning as we can do in PES 2017. So, no problem really :) Kinda like the sliders :P
 
Apart from the shooting, i found some other small problems : the way players systematically ask for the ball while going forward after making a pass fucks up the whole positioning. You lose the ball and you're basically screwed. Also the slide tackles are more reckless than ever. Maybe Konami wanted to make it dissuading so the game looks more realistic : in real life you never see this much slide tackling after all.

I'm coming from FIFA since I buy the PES games every year but basically put them on the shelf after a week or so of playing. So i'm sometimes confused with the controls. In my last game I wanted to make a cross from the corner of the box : it went in. A THUNDERBOLT. The player wasn't even running! The lace shot was too hard to handle for the keeper.
 
i remember when a new pro evo game came out it was so frustrating as the tweaks they made 'broke' it, but it was a case of learning it and mastering it and it was so rewarding.

The AI simply cannot be this simple to play against, it's the same as 15 onwards, the same way to get past a player, the same open spaces, the same lack of positional awareness that are causing the same gameplay.

Then add to the the shooting which is not stat based at all now, if you ain't scoring the keeper is pushing away or it's just going past the post and it feels soulless and empty.

I want it desperately to be great again, I hope one day they can make scouring the master league and pouring over stats of players worth it again but this just isn't for me so I'll just shut up now and hope everyone else enjoys the game
 
As predictable a claim as any that, if that is what you are reading. I remember people saying after a couple of hours play of the beta it was *exactly* the same as PES 2017. Alex Jones levels of conspiracy year in, year out.

I trust very few other opinions these days. Plenty of "fake news!" when it comes to both PES and FIFA. Plenty of agendas being pushed, but of course plenty of valid opinions too.

Think I can count on one hand how many peoples take on the game I can either agree with, or whose critiques I can take in and respect fully.
sorry but you just won't accept any negative criticism and demand everyone provides forensic evidence when they don't enjoy it

many of us have spent lots of money on pes every single damn year and some of us are tired of the same old flaws rearing their heads Time and time again

If you are happy with the game then great but some of us aren't
 
I think some of us expect certain things to be in a certain way, while others expect absolute huge changes that will push a GAME towards perfection. It will never happen. PES, FIFA, 2K SPORTS, whatever. It will never be perfect. Something will always feel unnatural or unorganic or un-whatever.

Some of us will try to make due with what they give us and look at the glass half full, while others just love the thrill of complaining about the same thing over and over, every-mother-freaking-single-day.

I tried the lastest Call of Duty. I didn't like it. Yet I didn't register in COD dedicated forums to complain about everything that I didn't like or that didn't feel like would happen in a real war. So I don't understand how some of you are still here after years of what you call 'a broken game'. Some of you even state how long a certain aspect of the game you don't like you feel has been broken for, so that means you've played the game throughout the year, every version. Enough to hate it. Why won't you make your lives easier?. Oh, right, I know... because you still play the game. You love playing PES as much as you love complaining about it.

Try to understand: IT WILL NEVER BE PERFECT. NEITHER WILL FIFA. ACCEPT IT FOR WHAT THEY ARE, TRY TO LOVE THEM. OR DO WITHOUT THEM.
 
sorry but you just won't accept any negative criticism and demand everyone provides forensic evidence when they don't enjoy it

many of us have spent lots of money on pes every single damn year and some of us are tired of the same old flaws rearing their heads Time and time again

If you are happy with the game then great but some of us aren't

Yes I do. You just qouted a post of mine in which I said I would exchange views with those whom I respect and who will offer potentially differing views from mine. Sorry if I don't lose my shit after five matches, fifteen matches or whatever, or don't start liking enough negative posts for you, buddy.
 
I should really know better than to judge PES on the first day of playing and perhaps I will change my mind over time but I'm just not feeling the demo at all.

It really does just feel like a slightly sharper version of PES2017 which I have grown very tired of.

The same old slow motion keeper dives, same old slow motion headers, same old shooting animations not matching shot type, same old lifeless shooting, same poor ball physics, same exaggerated slide tackles, same type of goals scored, same wrong foot selection when shooting, same shitty locked camera angles, same ping pong passing, same mind reading A.I opponents

They should just change the name of this game to Face Evolution Soccer because that seems to be all they're interested in improving on these days.

I won't cancel my preorder just yet but my expectations have lowered massively
 
The only thing I gather from reading all sorts of opinions (through Twitter and in Evo-Web) is that, regardless of whether you are really loving the changes from PES 2017 to PES 2018 Demo, or whether you think it's just a polished version of PES 2017, it just doesn't feel like 'cut from a different cloth' as Adam said many many times, even in the podcast. It certainly doesn't seem to be the start of a cycle, or 3 years in the making or whatever catchy phrase Adam made up to get into people's minds. That is indeed disappointing, because I know I'm going to enjoy this game very much, even more than PES 2017 (which I still play), but I can't trust Adam. Next year he'll come up with a new line or a new strategy to sell the game I will know that it's just "the new lie" they came up to make it sound interesting again.
 
I'm not as hardcore of a PES player as I used to be, so when I say "It's just like PES 2017" that's probably not right, as I stopped playing that in November or something of last year. There are probably many nuances (some of which I pointed out a few posts back, things I noticed and liked) that separate the two, but for a more of a casual PES gamer, I can't say the difference from PES 2017 is very noticable. It largely feels like the same game to me having played about 15-20 games in the demo.

That's not to say the full game won't be good. I'm not saying it's a failure already, and getting access to editing the game usually gives it a new breath of life thanks to the dedicated community members editing stats and formations.

Next year he'll come up with a new line or a new strategy to sell the game I will know that it's just "the new lie" they came up to make it sound interesting again.

It seems to be part of Konami's marketing plan somehow. There's always this one new feature with a lot of focus, which when you play the game, you hardly notice at all. "Team heart" or something was a few years back - what the hell was that? All the hoolabaloo about it was gone in the next iteration.
 
sorry but you just won't accept any negative criticism and demand everyone provides forensic evidence when they don't enjoy it

many of us have spent lots of money on pes every single damn year and some of us are tired of the same old flaws rearing their heads Time and time again

If you are happy with the game then great but some of us aren't
you don't like it (was expected) we get it. He likes it and says so (sometimes he explains why,with proof).
just try to agree to disagree.
the strange thing is that the ones who don't like it really wanna get everyone on board.(why!???) that is the part i don't get. often get angry with the ones that don't wanna come on board.
this is a PES thread. The majority will like the game. cause the gameplay we have always loved remains. Look at the pages, the thread is alive and doesn't need life support like the other thread.
so my question is why not do like most PES players? We check out the other thread every year cause we love football games, even buy it most of the time but when we see it doesn't meet our expectations we just say so and leave it be.
we do not try and hijack the thread to convince everyone of the way we see things. we have much better things to do, like for example enjoy our beloved PES.
 
played 10 games now on Superstar, most of them against Barca, managed to get 1 Freekick in total, the positioning is just weird, Messi waits on the sideline all game long, and when he gets the ball all i need is 1 player on defense and i'm fine

don't know what it is with the last games, but i miss the dynamic PES used to have, way too much space and 90% of the attacks feel the same, i think i didn't have one counter attack where a player is free on goal in the last 4 years
 
The only thing I gather from reading all sorts of opinions (through Twitter and in Evo-Web) is that, regardless of whether you are really loving the changes from PES 2017 to PES 2018 Demo, or whether you think it's just a polished version of PES 2017, it just doesn't feel like 'cut from a different cloth' as Adam said many many times, even in the podcast. It certainly doesn't seem to be the start of a cycle, or 3 years in the making or whatever catchy phrase Adam made up to get into people's minds. That is indeed disappointing, because I know I'm going to enjoy this game very much, even more than PES 2017 (which I still play), but I can't trust Adam. Next year he'll come up with a new line or a new strategy to sell the game I will know that it's just "the new lie" they came up to make it sound interesting again.
But we can't really blame him mate. its his job, is how he makes a living, supports his family.
 
People are interpreting comments of "Just like 17" as if it's the whole game. These comments, from what I've read, are in regards to specific gameplay values such as shooting, positioning, etc.

I think having the wrong interpretation, and essentially jumping to conclusions, is where the tides start to turn for the negative in the first place.
 
the strange thing is that the ones who don't like it really wanna get everyone on board.(why!???) that is the part i don't get. often get angry with the ones that don't wanna come on board.
This is my major frustration, as a reader of the forum and someone who loves to see love for the game as much as analysis and constructive criticism. I don't get people who appear (and it may just be appearance) to want to make everyone hate what they hate.
 
you don't like it (was expected) we get it. He likes it and says so (sometimes he explains why,with proof).
just try to agree to disagree.
the strange thing is that the ones who don't like it really wanna get everyone on board.(why!???) that is the part i don't get. often get angry with the ones that don't wanna come on board.
this is a PES thread. The majority will like the game. cause the gameplay we have always loved remains. Look at the pages, the thread is alive and doesn't need life support like the other thread.
so my question is why not do like most PES players? We check out the other thread every year cause we love football games, even buy it most of the time but when we see it doesn't meet our expectations we just say so and leave it be.
we do not try and hijack the thread to convince everyone of the way we see things. we have much better things to do, like for example enjoy our beloved PES.

Right? Why is it so difficult to speak your piece, whatever it may be, and simply leave at that? The game has been so disappointing the last few years that I stopped playing it after a month or two. I think for the first time I am going to enjoy playing all year long. You don't think so? Ok. The demo is out. Everyone is playing and judging for themselves. Talking beyond your impressions at this juncture is redundant. People will have dissimilar opinions invariably. To disagree or agree on opinions or even going beyond that? Waste of time!
 
Seriously some people here clearly try to play PES as if it's PES 5 all over again. Always mentioning that game. They don't want to try to relearn something. Cool stories guys but it's the best PES ever. Deal with it and move on, no reason to try to fill this thread with hate.

There are so many positives in this game that clearly you guys aren't trying to explore. For once movement and dribbling is excellent in this game, really smooth and feels so great. Try a combination of R1/R2 and the sticks. Feels so natural. Passing is much better than people claim it's not. But hey let's just talk about shooting and say it's not the best for that reason only.

Honestly this game just needs better shooting and more fouls. Then I will be the happiest man ever. Even without that it's still the best PES.
 
played 10 games now on Superstar, most of them against Barca, managed to get 1 Freekick in total, the positioning is just weird, Messi waits on the sideline all game long, and when he gets the ball all i need is 1 player on defense and i'm fine

don't know what it is with the last games, but i miss the dynamic PES used to have, way too much space and 90% of the attacks feel the same, i think i didn't have one counter attack where a player is free on goal in the last 4 years

I agree, positioning & spacing is bonkers same as it was last year yet I still found some way to enjoy it. However, doing my own tweaks with the tactics alleviated "some" of the spacing issues but that is still not an excuse to see some of the issues I am seeing. IMO Konami just needs to blow up this whole tactics/formation system, teams stick a little too much to it to the point that it almost kills the player individuality. While you some teams playing differently there still is something missing but I will keep playing this demo because it is still fun but at this point my expectations are pretty much in check with this game.
 
I have fallen in love. Nothing else to say. A dreamed game so far. I've never felt the things I've felt while playing a football simulator. And it is FUN. You can do pretty much anything, you have to deceive, you have to create, you have to PLAY. What an amazing game.


.-..-..-


On the other hand, I do want to address something about positioning:

Hace you guys seen any football lately? That's modern football tactics. When you decide to press so hard even on rival's corner zone, well, you'll end up not occupying spaces behind your line of pressure so the other can and will RUN.

Want to press and not give away those spaces? Do it after you pass and move the ball around enough for your whole team to get to advanced positions. If you don't, well, spaces are gonna be there just like in real life.
 
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The only thing I gather from reading all sorts of opinions (through Twitter and in Evo-Web) is that, regardless of whether you are really loving the changes from PES 2017 to PES 2018 Demo, or whether you think it's just a polished version of PES 2017, it just doesn't feel like 'cut from a different cloth' as Adam said many many times, even in the podcast. It certainly doesn't seem to be the start of a cycle, or 3 years in the making or whatever catchy phrase Adam made up to get into people's minds. That is indeed disappointing, because I know I'm going to enjoy this game very much, even more than PES 2017 (which I still play), but I can't trust Adam. Next year he'll come up with a new line or a new strategy to sell the game I will know that it's just "the new lie" they came up to make it sound interesting again.

Chuny, you are one of the people I will take time to read. All I can say is that you shouldn't put too much stock into what Adam says. I'm not saying that because I think he is lying or looking to pull the wool over anyone's eyes (he is a good friend of mine) but because his job demands he promotes as well as offer opinion when he can. There is very little absolute truth to these games that a developer or representative can offer beyond saying they are football videogames and list off modes, features and teams. Everything else is going to be pretty much subjective after that. No point in getting too caught up in what "three year cycle" or "cut from different cloth" means, or whatever. You are only ever going to get a look and a sample late in the day before the game itself comes out for your consideration.
 
- Shooting is a bit more varied. Still for me far from perfect.
- Advanced instructions need to be turned off or the majority at least. They cause chaos on the pitch.
- Attack -Defence levels are all wrong for most teams.
- Do not play on Top Pl or Sup. Too robotic and cheaty. Pro is perfect.


Overally yes its a polished 2017 and nothing extreme. I recomend to whoever liked 2017 heavily.
 
Playing my ML save on 17,and yeah,some people say shooting is the same,not arguing that,opinions may vary etc etc
But the level of intensity on 17 compared to 18
It's very much two different games,after like 20+ games on 18 today,going back to 17 trying to create chances,shoot etc,it's like being thrown into a cage with 11 angry pitbulls.
The level of marking, double ups it's almost unplayable.
So to me,the whole "feel/vibe gameplay" between 17 and 18, galaxy's apart.
But hey,we all see things differently
Don't we?
 
I have fallen in love. Nothing else to say. A dreamed game so far. I've never felt the things I've felt while playing a football simulator. And it is FUN. You can do pretty much anything, you have to deceive, you have to create, you have to PLAY. What an amazing game.


.-..-..-


On the other hand, I do want to address something about positioning:

Hace you guys seen any football lately? That's modern football tactics. When you decide to press so hard even on rival's corner zone, well, you'll end up not occupying spaces behind your line of pressure so the other can and will RUN.

Want to press and not give away those spaces? Do it after you pass and move the ball around enough for your whole team to get to advanced positions. If you don't, well, spaces are gonna be there just like in real life.

1. The center backs, IRL, spread out to be attacking options. This is why a forward has to run back and forth and put pressure on them in possession. They do not stay in a defensive attitude while their team is on the attack. The forward has to react to the center backs, not the other way around.

2. The DMF does not sit back in front of the center backs, they stand in-between the forward and the next midfielder, most times the AMF or SMF (if they tuck in for FB play). This is the absolute key to how space is created. If the DMF doesn't hang back slightly, all the space in the world can be created.

That combination is what you see in modern football, old football, any football - it's a fundamental. You don't go to step 2 (adv instructions, etc) without achieving step 1 - the fundamentals.

The problem with positioning is that we excuse the lack of fundamentals for something advanced. If it was addressed, and we stopped allowing it to be chalked up to the laundry list of settings, so many other areas of the game would be improved.
 
But we can't really blame him mate. its his job, is how he makes a living, supports his family.

Chuny, you are one of the people I will take time to read. All I can say is that you shouldn't put too much stock into what Adam says. I'm not saying that because I think he is lying or looking to pull the wool over anyone's eyes (he is a good friend of mine) but because his job demands he promotes as well as offer opinion when he can. There is very little absolute truth to these games that a developer or representative can offer beyond saying they are football videogames and list off modes, features and teams. Everything else is going to be pretty much subjective after that. No point in getting too caught up in what "three year cycle" or "cut from different cloth" means, or whatever. You are only ever going to get a look and a sample late in the day before the game itself comes out for your consideration.

Yeah, I guess so.
It comes with the job. EA does it in a very different way. Instead of having one guy take all the credit AND blame, they release all the info in short videos or in their official website and NEVER answer any questions from fans. I guess I like Konami's way better and I always fall in the trap of believing what they promote. I'm 30. I should know better.

That being said, I really can't wait to have the full game!
 
1. The center backs, IRL, spread out to be attacking options. This is why a forward has to run back and forth and put pressure on them in possession. They do not stay in a defensive attitude while their team is on the attack. The forward has to react to the center backs, not the other way around.

2. The DMF does not sit back in front of the center backs, they stand in-between the forward and the next midfielder, most times the AMF or SMF (if they tuck in for FB play). This is the absolute key to how space is created. If the DMF doesn't hang back slightly, all the space in the world can be created.

That combination is what you see in modern football, old football, any football - it's a fundamental. You don't go to step 2 (adv instructions, etc) without achieving step 1 - the fundamentals.

The problem with positioning is that we excuse the lack of fundamentals for something advanced. If it was addressed, and we stopped allowing it to be chalked up to the laundry list of settings, so many other areas of the game would be improved.

I don't want to start a discussion/dick measuring about this, but I do love tactics and writing about it and studying it is what I have done for the last five years. What you say about the center backs is actually a recent development, like, less than ten years ago that is was really, really weird to ask of a center back to create passing lanes while attacking. They, at most, moved a bit to help out the goalkeeper or fellow defender to play the ball out from the back and that was a special case in certain teams. Currently, playing out from the back with a trained system is important and thats why now you see center backs going to the wings (!) to receive the ball, etc. Pressure on them is not something new, but this aggressively and so far as to the corner kicks etc is a reaction to that playing out in a systemized way. This kind of pressing is something very new. Teams in 2010 did not press like this:

https://twitter.com/GolDeVestuario/status/900777495531855874

Nor did they play out from the back like that. The result is that as soon as the pressure is broken, there's a loooooot space to run and play.

About numer 2), yes it would ideally be that the DMF occupies that half space between lines, but that is not always true. Is up to the player being good and the tactics being good for that to happen. It can be that the DMF goes pressing to far up so his back is exploited, or that he stays too down, and while his team is pressuring, there's uncover space between his teammates and him. And that is VERY common. Specially now that teams have decided to press like they do. It was not that much when teams didn't and instead chose to fall back as soon as they lost the ball, reorganizing their shape first before thinking of stealing the ball.

I think positioning is important and I would say there is a problem if we wouldn't be able to set up teams tactically to not leave those gaps. And we can. It would be a huge problem if we couldn't or if the game didn't allow us to replicate this modern styles that although create those gaps, give other advantages.

There's no need to mix the way you think football should be played, that is what you call fundamentals, with what is possible and happens A LOT in real life, specially now that those kind of tactics are a trend. As is, by the way, the ping-pong passing. What was wrong in PES 2017 - and FIFA - is that teams could do it no matter technique stats and team tactics. In this 2018, I played against and with different teams and I felt that with some teams the CPU and I could play like that and with others no so much, which is what I would hope for the game.

P.S.: sorry if something sounds too blunt. English is my second language and sometimes what sounds right in tone both in my head and my native language, is impolite or something like that. I respect you and like your comments on the game.
 
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