PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

bluewomble88 said:
These first time shots you analysed - was it on manual shooting?

I think the point here is it's too easy to strike the ball first time in all situations. PES 2017 allowed me to hit rockets in the direction of the goal very easily. They weren't all on target but they were cleanly hit and travelled well. It is not contextual though. In older games, shots got scuffed, sliced, bobbled, hooked, ballooned etc IN RELATION TO STANCE, ANGLE, STATS. In 2017 (maybe 2018) the shots did not reflect the user input and pitch environment well enough.
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perfectly said
 
fregen said:
The over analysing- crap is really boring.

1) Wait for the demo. Test it. If you like it buy the game. If not, don't buy it.
2) Don't download the demo based on videos of the game you have seen that doesn't seem to meet the criteria you have for the game.

Simple as. Genius right?
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i can t help myself to feel disapointed yet again, i love pes and i bought every game since pes 3, but i don t want to feel disapointed everytime i play the game and feel that the annoying things are still, i speak because i love the franchise and i want it to be better in every way, i think its a engine limitation with the problems i mentioned it cannot be done unless a new engine enters the frey sad but true..
fregen u have to ask yourself why does this game get over analyzed , its because people love it and the community is so interested in the game and are passionate about having a better product than it is, to perfect the things that thy find inconvenient in the game, why doesn t the other game get this much attention...ask urself that question
 
ramgamer said:
i can t help myself to feel disapointed yet again, i love pes and i bought every game since pes 3, but i don t want to feel disapointed everytime i play the game and feel that the annoying things are still, i speak because i love the franchise and i want it to be better in every way, i think its a engine limitation with the problems i mentioned it cannot be done unless a new engine enters the frey sad but true..
fregen u have to ask yourself why does this game get over analyzed , its because people love it and the community is so interested in the game and are passionate about having a better product than it is, to perfect the things that thy find inconvenient in the game, why doesn t the other game get this much attention...ask urself that question
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Amen to this.

I will shut up now and won't say anything until the Demo is released. I can then decide for myself :)
 
curdstar said:
Don't try the classic tactic of making a claim then when challenged on it start to backtrack or infer you weren't being serious or that others are taking it too serious.

If you were being tongue in cheek then fair enough.
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Im done with my years when i wanted to win any arguement so... there u go. Also i have expressed my detailed thoughts on shooting and passing many times. You can find it on the forum.
 
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johnnyusa2k3 said:
I've started to ignore some people (thanks for that forum function) because it started to get really annoying. Last 2-3 pages i've seen nothing new about the game, only moaning over and over..
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That is the reason why i asked a separate news thread about PES218. It's too late now, but still...
 
gerd said:
That is the reason why i asked a separate news thread about PES218. It's too late now, but still...
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It's true Gerd, the news gets washed away by the responses. We've done separate, locked news threads in the past, and it worked better. But we (mods) are constantly trying our best to steer this thread A) back on-topic, B) away from trolling, C) away from one-upmanship and D) all of the above without deleting posts or banning anyone so that everyone can still voice an opinion (without it causing a whole new raft of "where's so-and-so gone" posts).

This thread is like patrolling a beach, trying to keep back the sea. (Every day.)

So creating and maintaining a separate news thread hasn't been done this year because, to be blunt (and I can only speak for myself), it's more work on top of that. But next year I think we'll go back to that way of doing things.

PRO_TOO said:
so, NZ store will have the demo a few hours earlier, right!?
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Usually, yes! Get your PlayStation NZ accounts at the ready.
 
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ramgamer said:
i can t help myself to feel disapointed yet again, i love pes and i bought every game since pes 3, but i don t want to feel disapointed everytime i play the game and feel that the annoying things are still, i speak because i love the franchise and i want it to be better in every way, i think its a engine limitation with the problems i mentioned it cannot be done unless a new engine enters the frey sad but true..
fregen u have to ask yourself why does this game get over analyzed , its because people love it and the community is so interested in the game and are passionate about having a better product than it is, to perfect the things that thy find inconvenient in the game, why doesn t the other game get this much attention...ask urself that question
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I didn't point at someone special (sorry if you felt I was talking about you),

I love PES as well. But I think, in general, people are over- analysing PES more just because we have this idea how PES should be from PES 4/5/6 (and how it was in our youth). I just get fed up with people posting the same thing over and over again, it's just boring. I stopped watching videos around PES 2015 since I know it will be so different when I have it in my hands and I don't want to be influenced. I know the game will be flawed (tbh most games are one way or another) in some ways which has made me enjoy the game more since I won't be to disappointed, sad perhaps but it works for me.

For example, I didn't have any problems with shooting in PES 2015. Then I started reading on the WENB- forum and people were saying it was shit (this insane user called vital especially, but he is another story...) and after that I started thinking about it when playing the game. Starting to over analyse it up to the point that I ALSO felt it was shit. So that ruined it for me, it became a truth although I was enjoying it before. So for PES 2016 I tried to stay away from forums before the game came out and tried to build my own opinion when it did. After a while a looked at the forums again and saw that some of the things i had problems with others had as well (PA 1 being to assisted for example) but I also saw that there were A LOT of things that didn't bother me that others had problems with. I'm sure some of those things had started bothering me if I had hung around the forums at the same time I was playing.

Another thing, I think people on here (and WENB) really have to accept that we are the minority when it comes to what PES should be (a polished PES 5/6 I guess). The vast majority doesn't give crap about ball physics, shooting and passing assistance. Konami knows that, and as a company they will listen to people if what they want most is realistic faces and Legends to use for MyClub.
 
I don't get it.
Playing assisted means, the game assist you with passing and shooting.
It got wäy to easy and can i blame the game for it?
So I went a step further and played it in full manuall. No more guidelined passes etc.
The only issue i have with fm mode, is there any diffrents, passing with Özil Ort Mertesacker?
I'll find out with the Demo
 
@Chris Davies It is. Always! Work till Tuesday 8pm. Then heading home checking the store constantly.... :)
And then... oh boy I'm so looking forward to play this.
I will have friends over at my apartment next week to test 3vsCom! Great fun ahead I guess.
 
Chris Davies said:
Jesus Christ, just ask him out already will you? You kids today and your flirting by aggressively analysing computer game videos. You're just weird.

Seriously, though - you've made your point, so let's stop trying to ridicule someone. Too close to trolling, and two wrongs don't make a right.

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Okay, now hold on a second here and I will reply respectfully.

Someone asserts that first time shots are too easy, with others still standing by that assertion in spite of not providing any evidence or research. They are just saying it and still are after your response to me.

I took a sample of four games and done all the maths, all the research, which suggests, based on a very small sample size, that the claim is very much open to question. But me simply questioning the assertion and using a video that was used to back up the assertion is trolling? Even though those making the claim aren't offering up anything to counter?

Fair enough if you found the "Mr. Bond" trolly, but I would have thought that was tongue-in-cheek: a simple referrence to how the fictional character is adressed in the works of fiction.

Serious question, Chris, and again asked with respect:

Everyone likes saying Konami don't listen to hardcore fan feedback. Someone had said previous shots never fly over. I proved that wasn't the case, along with detailing what happened in four matches regards first-time shots.

If you were working for Konami and you read feedback saying shots never ever fly over horribly, turned on the game and ballooned one over within minutes, how would you then approach the rest of that hardcore users feedback? Remember, you debunked the claim of shots never flying over within minutes. Would you really be of the belief that the individual in question had properly tested anything thoroughly, and just roll with what they had to say? Would you check everything else they had to say in spite of being able to disprove their theory within minutes?

Again, Chris, I am replying to you with respect, and asking a question with complete respect.
 
curdstar said:
Yep. So incredibly tedious and boring. Thing is, this over analysing crap that is tedious and boring isn't really holding up a claim made by Mr Bond now, is it?

Yes. Far, far easier just to make random claims and not back them up.



Nope, sorry, not having this. You are trying to change the debate here. You are not fooling anyone here. The claims made recently have been that first-time shots are easy (analysis currently not holding that up) and that shots never go wildly over which has been debunked.

What you are trying to do is change that to shots go on target most of the time and... I honestly don't know. I think you are saying shots going over don't look pretty enough.

And now you are claiming they have changed the colour of the grass. Good grief.



No. Why don't you go and do it seeing as you are the one making these claims? You won't, because like I have already said it is far easier to make the claim and do nothing in order to back it up. Instead, you and your likes will just make it, scream "HARDCORE", mumble something about PES 5 or 6 and think it is acceptable enough "feedback"
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:APPLAUD::APPLAUD::TU::TU:
 
curdstar said:
Fair enough if you found the "Mr. Bond" trolly, but I would have thought that was tongue-in-cheek: a simple referrence to how the fictional character is adressed in the works of fiction.
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Not long ago you said to someone "don't try and get out of this by" etc...

In the space of 12 hours you mentioned him four times, sometimes tagging him. A response to someone's post, particularly a well-considered analysis, is 100% fair enough. But from what I can tell, in one of those posts I quoted, you literally just said "and hello Mr. Bond" in response to nothing. Almost to remind him you exist.

It's not comfortable reading. I wouldn't go as far as to say it was bullying, but I'd certainly feel a little intimidated.

If I posted an opinion on a forum (and had the audacity not to provide a ten-minute frame-by-frame analysis of my point, or a 72 page essay) - and next time I logged on and I'd been mentioned four times by someone, I'd feel pretty fucking uncomfortable. (Yes, it's an opinion that's been repeated ad nauseum, but if you can't see my point by now, I don't know how else to state it, and I don't have the time to provide a ten-minute frame-by-frame I can't even be bothered finishing this sentence for fucks sake I just want to go and have my lunch.)

EDIT: Further discussion about staff posts and decisions would be better in the "Site" part of the forum, please. I realise this is an absolute, total waste of time, but I'm going to say it anyway. Let's stay on-topic from now on. Please. I'm BEGGING you all. I can't afford the therapy.
 
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Whether I will love PES 2018 completely or be disappointed by it, this still sounds like a truck load of crap to me:


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I highly doubt Konami has enough man power to be working in the shadows on this game for 3 years while they still need to get one out every year and meet deadlines.
I'm not even talking about whether PES 2018 looks or moves like it's a "cut from a different cloth" (as Bhatti likes to claim), because this could be the start of something that will look and move completely different in 3 years. But doesn't really seem like that's going to happen, right?. Not judging the game here, don't get me wrong. I'm just trying to read between the lines.
 
PRO_TOO said:
@Chris Davies It is. Always! Work till Tuesday 8pm. Then heading home checking the store constantly.... :)
And then... oh boy I'm so looking forward to play this.
I will have friends over at my apartment next week to test 3vsCom! Great fun ahead I guess.
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Oh snap I forgot NZ store gets it early, so it looks like I will be playing this on Tuesday. :)

Also for online play wouldn't we be able to use Shareplay to play against one another?
 
So where or when does the three years cycle exactly starts?

Most of the stuff promised haven't been delivered yet, And we're actually losing some features since PES 2013. If you look at the tone of Konami prior the beta they were pretty specific about some improvements (shooting,ML) but now have been relatively quiet and offish when quizzed about things like fouls and AI behaviour

I personnally feel excited this year about the modding possiblities for PC,The game speed, bringing back the superior set piece system, No catchup bug and hopefully a better AI.

Oh and what does "best quality product in a decade" actually mean?
 
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curdstar said:
Someone asserts that first time shots are too easy, with others still standing by that assertion in spite of not providing any evidence or research. They are just saying it and still are after your response to me.

I took a sample of four games and done all the maths, all the research, which suggests, based on a very small sample size, that the claim is very much open to question. But me simply questioning the assertion and using a video that was used to back up the assertion is trolling? Even though those making the claim aren't offering up anything to counter?
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My only issue is that your research is made with a very selective interpretation of the original complaint. For example if only 20% of shots were on target you might say this is clear proof that shooting is not too "easy", but if 90% of those shots were clean, perfectly struck shots that only narrowly missed the target it kind of misses the point. You also can't really use a singular example to challenge claims about general trends/observations, like one example of a shot being blazed over doesn't mean that it's not a notably rare thing to see this. On the other hand, we should be as precise as possible when pointing out issues and not overstate the case. I did not mean to imply that it was impossible to blaze one over, but I still feel the difficulty of certain types of shots is not accurately represented in the game in terms of the variety of outcomes, which contributes to the *perception* of cheap or easy goals even if the statistics don't fully support it.
 
shez said:
So where or when does the three years cycle exactly starts?

Most of the stuff promised haven't been delivered yet, And we're actually losing some features since PES 2013. If you look at the tone of Konami prior the beta they were pretty specific about some improvements (shooting,ML) but now have been relatively quiet and offish when quizzed about things like fouls and AI behaviour

I personnally feel excited this year about the modding possiblities for PC,The game speed, bringing back the superior set piece system, No catchup bug and hopefully a better AI.

Oh and what does "best quality product in a decade" actually mean?
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"Best product quality in a decade" ?
 
sorry @Matt10 ... ;)
...some impressions from a guy who played 2017 and 2018 at gamescom:
Played PES 2018 at Gamescom...

I worked at Gamescom last year and played the PES 2017 demo last year... came away from Cologne, feeling FIFA was the much better game and that PES felt dreadful. Even though I still bought PES for BAL mode.

Working at Gamescom again this year and I can't help but feel like I'm coming away from the game with a very different opinion in mind...

So, I managed to play quite a few 10min games of the PES 2018 demo this year. The PS4 version to be exact (unless it was on PC, using PS4 controllers - but I don't think that was the case unlike what other games do).

- I came away from the online beta feeling disappointed because it felt like there was too much input lag & server lag. But I can assure you anyone who felt the same and mainly plays PES for the single player modes, need not worry. The game speed is slower than last year - in a good, realistic style way - and players certainly feel heavier. In the past when trying to slow PES down, players tended to feel and look slightly sluggish and robotic. Now, this could be because I mainly played with Liverpool, Dortmund, Barcelona, Germany who have a higher quality of player (and licensed), rather than one of the weaker sides. However, each player felt like they had an identity. You could feel you were weaving in and out of players with Messi. You could feel Suarez's strength holding and pushing defenders out of the way whilst dribbling between them. I could tell movement was a lot clunkier and heavier with a center back. It's hard to describe but it just felt right and like players had an identity. Whilst in the past, players had a tendency to just all feel the same. However, obviously this might just end up applying to players from licensed teams.

- Graphically, I didn't notice too much has changed from what we've already seen and in some cut scenes it does feel perhaps a little bit overdone to make it cinematic. For example when they line up at the start of a match, there's a strange blur around them. But I don't think it'll be noticeable on a decent TV because to be honest, the TVs they had were pretty poor and there was a strange fps drop every 30 secs or so. But I'm confident we won't have to worry about this. Despite this though, some of the faces were incredible. Suarez looked so life like it was unreal. Goal scoring cut scenes, I saw plenty of ones I haven't recognised before from PES 2017 which was great.

-The menus are still the same, except the poor looking Premier League wannabe colour scheme. But, they get the job done unless you're colourblind.

-AI defending seemed much improved and dare I say it, impressed me off the ball much more than FIFA 18. I'm quite a counter-attacking, defensively minded footballing type of person and one thing that really frustrates me with football games is how braindead CPU/AI defenders are when it comes to getting in the right position to intercept a pass or read the game, step forward from the defensive line and win the ball back automatically. Hate it when they just float around doing nothing and it's unrealistic. The reason I think this is a necessity is because you can't be expected to manually position, control & try to defend with more than one player at once! I found my non-controlled central midfielders, tracking runs, winning balls back and reading the game without me having to do everything which was nice. Some might question whether this could be overpowered or abused, I don't think so but it's hard to tell this early on. I did find it frustrating and a bit of a let down though that if you seemed to switch to an AI controlled defender who's moving to intercept a pass, the defender would 'forget' what they were doing as they were now under your control and stop running towards the ball. Which would then leave your defender in no mans land and the pacier striker or midfielder gets to it first. Slide tackles are also quite varied and it's really satisfying when you pull one off.

- Now, even though AI defending seemed improved, center backs seemed a bit underwhelming in the air. They'd leap up most of the time and get to the ball, but some of the heading I saw when dealing with crosses and corners in to the box or long balls forward was questionable. Or sometimes they'd go for a weird header for a low cross when they could've just hoofed it away instead. I initially thought it was because I was playing as Liverpool and the less said about their defence nowadays the better, but I was experiencing similar things with players like Hummels & Boateng. I think it feels like it could be a type of thing that will be ironed out in the full game though. If this can become more balanced, I think it'll be interesting to see what the balance would be like up against a Giroud or Benzema style/type of striker who were a bit OP last year heading wise. Collisions in general though made sense. It was just strange as the collision would look realistic and great, you'd feel the thump and then your center back would fail miserably at heading a simple floating ball. Happened more often than I would've liked, but when your back line messes up like that... the opposition is in on goal.

- I was disappointed as tactics were locked meaning I couldn't mess around with testing what impact changing the options made on the pitch, but it was clear when playing with Liverpool there was plenty of movement off the ball when we'd retain it to counter attack whilst with Barca there was no urgency at all and they were much narrower. I like it when the response of these settings is clear as it really adds another tactical dimension to the game imo and in return can help you change games in Master League for example.

- Player switching seemed really messed up in the beta, can confirm there seem no significant issues with it anymore and the announcement that it was fixed was right. You'd get the odd switcherooni that would make no sense but it can easily be sorted if you bother to use the analog stick to switch rather than be lazy and use L1. The good news for lazy L1 players (like me) is that it rarely switched to the illogical player.

- As I said before, dribbling was really nice using a mixture of the L2 button (or maybe R2? I have weird controls). With the right player, you can really deal damage cutting inside and creeping in to the box or make just small movements that are just enough to produce a quality bit of play.

- Set pieces are a bit confusing now without the arrow, not quite sure what to think of them even though I still scored from a corner. Was an old fashioned hoof it to the back post, get the center back to header it across goal and hope for a tap in. Just feels like the arrow maybe allowed for a bit more of a customisation or visualisation of what you are going for?

- Some people complained that crosses were OP in the beta, I certainly didn't feel it was that way at all. Granted I had no Giroud in the box to aim at but with the dodgy heading I was seeing from center backs every few headers, strikers were definitely struggling against the strength of defenders. Even early crosses were a struggle and defenders would put everything on the line to get in the way, full on martial arts style which was nice.

- Last man in on goal still doesn't always seem to be a red card. Was a red card once, yellow card the other. Can't comment whether it's an improvement from the weird stuff seen with this regards from the beta.


I'm happy to answer any questions people have, it's 11:30pm here so I can't remember everything that went through my head at the time I guess! If I can't answer them accurately from what I remember, I won't. But just want to hopefully help people out and give you all something to look forward to.
I hope they release some more Master League info. The one feature I'm really hoping for is an option to not have retired players come back to life... rather have more of a newgen/regen system for youngsters. But we'll have to wait and see.

Either way, what really excites me is how good the PC version of the game (coming from a PES 2017 PS4 player) could end up looking with some mods!
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shez said:
Look at Adam's screen in the pic above
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The one I posted myself? LOL.
I did. I think the order of the words is wrong.
It should have read "Best product quality in a decade" as opposed to "Best quality product in a decade"
 
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