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PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

lancers said:
I have no problem with using option files to get kits and emblems but most people just don't want to be bothered which I find strange when you consider most of these kids grew up with computers and would have no problem with the option files if they gave a few minutes to learn how they operate.
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I grew up with option files and such (31 here), and I've been part of a patching team for like 5 years in my early 20s with the main duty of creating textures (kits, mostly) so I pretty much know how to edit the game. To be fair, I could probably say that I still probably spend more time editing the game than playing it! :LOL:

Unfortunately, not many people see things as I do: we grew up in a world in which licences weren't a thing, and they don't matter that much to me now either. I still remember Allejo and Kleimann from ISS, Zbanev from ISS 64, Minanda and Castolo and all of them are part of my fondest memories... What was important for me (for us I'd say) was how the game played, not how it looked.

Now the average player in his teenage/early 20s would just want to have all the teams licensed out of the box.
Having been in a patching team, I can also tell you that not many people want to edit the game by themselves. The majority of them would just stand there and wait for the final product, and they won't ever ask "may I help?" but only "when is it ready? Why isn't it ready yet?" as, having grown up with the Internet, they're used to have everything readily available at will. But I'm going off topic.
 
GiogiPogi said:
:APPLAUD::LMAO:

Jokes aside, I think I may have “liked” almost every single post in the last page or two! :P

On the hand hand, although perhaps I'm more optimistic, I can't help but empathise with Lami (whose rant made me chuckle heartily). I feel your pain, bro! The ability shown by KONAMI in the last decade or so to consistently shoot itself in the foot surely has by now become the stuff of legend. I mean, besides invoking financial masochism and/or creative schizophrenia, how exactly does one fathom the logic behind the decision to arbitrarily remove perfectly good features from a game? Some of the choices made since the PS2 era are outright baffling. One would be tempted to think that Seabass really was more that the Keeper of the Flame, and that since his departure PES has been helplessly groping in the dark. The last edition I played—and by played I mean “properly played”, Master League etc.—was WE10, and even that I considered something of a step backwards compared to the mythical WE9LE. So I do feel your pain.

On the other hand, I'm fairly certain I'm not making any groundbreaking philosophical insight if I say that both the emotional investment in the series, as well as the broader role of videogames in general, tend to change throughout the various stages of one's life. My passion and investment for videogames—and WE/PES in particular—has definitely ebbed since I was younger, and has only recently been reinvigorated almost singlehandedly by the amazing experience of playing The Last of Us (Remastered). Thus, differently from someone like Lami, whose Herculean efforts to support PES during the last disappointing decade quite understandably must really start to feel like a gigantic exercise in frustration, perhaps because I, as it were, “carry less baggage”, I'm able to approach the whole thing with a more optimistic, less cynical attitude. Am I just being naïve? Possibly. But I don't think it's completely panglossian to hope that, however slowly and haphazardly, things may improve. Especially now that I can finally see a glimmer of sunlight peek through the clouds. The improvements exhibited in the latest footage are orders of magnitude greater than what I expected. Those new player models, the lighting, the way the ball bounces…so good! And above all, the real clincher for me is the new locomotion system, which, despite not being flawless, looks astonishingly similar to the sort of “endgame” innovation I envisioned in my dreams. And now, out of the blue, it's a reality. HOLY SHIT, YES!! THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! Dammit KONAMI, it has taken you fucking ages but you finally nailed it! I honestly didn't think you had it in you, you dirty old bastard…

And although the new animation system, ball physics, and graphics, are by no means a panacea for all the other problems present in the game, taken together not only do they represent a significant improvement in the here and now, but in the slightly longer term might pave the way for the fully-fledged renaissance that we have been so eagerly, obstinately, and yes, in some cases bitterly awaiting. There are signs—some big, some small, some explicit, some only hinted at—that the tides may be turning. Whether this is because the Powers That Be at KONAMI have finally started listening, or because the dev team has somehow managed to get their shit together, or simply because the wheel of fortune in PES Production's offices has landed on “more sim” for multiple years in a row, we can only speculate. Only the people “on the inside” know the truth. But if with the revolutionary locomotion system we are really witnessing the coming to fruition of a three-year cycle, as Mr. Bhatti has claimed, then perhaps for the first time in a long while there's reason to believe that, after all, there really is a plan, a guiding vision, informing development. The cynics have every right to scoff at all the hype bandwagoning (once bitten…), but if the video footage, audio podcasts, and written impressions corroborating the PR talk (!) are anything to go by, then there is a smidgen of a chance that after years of talking the talk, KONAMI has at last started actually walking the walk.

So, in conclusion, if Lami is fed up by years of hitting a brick wall and wants to “retire” for a while, let it be known that I'm able and willing to carry the torch during his leave of absence. :DD :P

EDIT: goddammit—it took me so bloody long to write this shit that the sheer number of posts that have appeared in the meantime have probably rendered mine entirely obsolete :LMAO:
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The bolded part. Everyone has a limit, and I feel like I've reached mine. Too much frustration. 10 years is about enough for me. Tested my patience enough. Other things in life don't allow much room as well. Plus the other games that I'm thoroughly enjoying. I can't be bothered with etiquette or beating around the bush or any of that nonsense anymore. If they don't want to listen to honesty, I can't be bothered. Matt10 looks like he still has the spark and desire, which I've lost. He has a YouTube channel which might help. I'm not sure I can bother with that. If I create one it might be all ranting for fun. I'll support him and whoever shares my thoughts. You can have all the mini imaginary torches.
lancers said:
I would like to play full manual but at my age (65) I find it a bit too difficult. I play PA1 Advanced Shooting and Advanced Through Balls. Depending upon how I am feeling I might play Pro or Top Player.
I find the game a bit too assisted on PA1 would like to see something a bit less helpful. While the game is not perfect I still prefer it to FIFA though there are some things I like better about 2016 and 2017 graphics not being one of them. I prefer the way PES moves and looks but I don't think the game has a chance of winning over casuals because of the licenses. I have no problem with using option files to get kits and emblems but most people just don't want to be bothered which I find strange when you consider most of these kids grew up with computers and would have no problem with the option files if they gave a few minutes to learn how they operate.
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65.... Hats off to you, sir.
 
Lami said:
If you played it, you should know all too well how weak foot shots were very hit and miss, like they should be and stats mattered. Body positioning and defenders pressuring affected shooting as well. This hasn't been the case with current gen pes.

And for the tech back then, this game played very well, and had much less issues than we do now.
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Of course I do and a for the 3rd time, I'm not saying shooting is perfect now but if you saw a compilation of good stuff from PES6 and hadn't played it, you'd have the same response.

On your point and konami saying it's realistic and getting your hopes up. I'd suggest you realise that marketing spiel is just that and not get influenced by it.

I just think the way these videos are picked apart is pretty extreme and we could do the same on the old games. It's like everyone's decided they can no longer enjoy it unless it's perfect.

I remember getting SO frustrated with the PS2 games but there was so much good I accepted it. This PES looks to be the first which I can do that again.
 
I was thinking about how the community might work together to give feedback. I suggest the following. I have made the suggestion very specific - no ifs or buts - but only to keep this simple. Everything is open to suggestions.
  1. When the open beta begins, we all sign up for it. Regardless of whether we are online or offline players (I play offline only for timetable reasons). Even offline players can easily spot issues in online play.

    https://www.konami.com/wepes/2018/eu/en/topic/open_beta_test
  2. We start two new threads on this forum. In the first thread each one of us can post exactly one post with a maximum of 5 issues in the beta. The point is to collect each issues in one location and not clutter it with discussions and arguments. If the person decides to update his/her list, (s)he must edit the post.
  3. The second thread will contain all the discussions on the issues.

The idea would be to share issues and allow them to possibly influence the feedback we give at the end of the beta.

Any ideas on this?
 
James Beaver said:
I was thinking about how the community might work together to give feedback. I suggest the following. I have made the suggestion very specific - no ifs or buts - but only to keep this simple. Everything is open to suggestions.
  1. When the open beta begins, we all sign up for it. Regardless of whether we are online or offline players (I play offline only for timetable reasons). Even offline players can easily spot issues in online play.

    https://www.konami.com/wepes/2018/eu/en/topic/open_beta_test
  2. We start two new threads on this forum. In the first thread each one of us can post exactly one post with a maximum of 5 issues in the beta. The point is to collect each issues in one location and not clutter it with discussions and arguments. If the person decides to update his/her list, (s)he must edit the post.
  3. The second thread will contain all the discussions on the issues.

The idea would be to share issues and allow them to possibly influence the feedback we give at the end of the beta.

Any ideas on this?
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Sounds great to me! You have my vote.
 
It's been a few years since i played the old games so I just watch a load of videos. Pass/first touch error are essentially nonexistent in each of the matches I've watched and some of the shooting is absolutely ridiculous. I've just watched Messi swivel 180 degrees and launch the ball top corner with two defender putting him under pressure.

There's absolutely more variation in shooting and more error but nowhere near as stark as this discussion would suggest.

The organisation of the teams and the way the cpu try different things is really really good, too.

What I have noticed on the PES 2018 videos is there are subtle Frist touch errors where the players gets slowed or can't play the past as quickly etc due to not having a perfect touch. Hoping that's noticable when playing.

Finally, the difference between good and bad players is significantly more noticible in the PS2 versions, that's very evident.
 
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daniel over at WENB just posted his impressions from the liverpool WT event! good read and some stuff that makes you smile! :)
danielrh wrote:Awesome day yesterday at Anfield (home of Liverpool FC)

Let me start off by saying I played against the AI (four times on superstar) and fed back to Kei Masuda (Lead Producer for Pro Evolution Soccer) and I was joined by Adam Bhatti.

The AI will be cranked up before full release and there is an announcement coming regarding playing against the computer …. I’ll let Konami announce things officially.
So to @TheCloser you want a challenging AI? …. you’ve got it

I had a chat about shooting (Inc weak foot shooting) and there will be more work done on shooting variety, animations including goalkeeper saves, reaction and defenders reaction to various types of shots and loose balls in your penalty area.

Like I said I played four games against the AI on superstar and (ooopps) one against the AI on regular five games in total like @Vital said “and that’s why we need to play against the AI.

On superstar I tried those power shots and the keeper caught the ball clean and did a two handed overhead throw out to the left back (that was in one match …nice).
In another match I scored three long range blockbusters and thought” wow didn’t expect that” but after the game and whilst getting sorted to play a next match against the AI after checking the game settings it had defaulted back to regular hence my one match was on regular setting, there were two settings to choose from regular or superstar.

I did watch some of the recordings going on and guys were eager to just get on and play so they were just jumping straight to another match (player v player) picking a team heading straight to game plan then start to play the match, as the saying goes they forgot about Dre ….. they forgot to check what game setting they are playing on.

So if you see recordings of matches where long shots are rifling in they are playing on regular setting they’ve forgot to check the game setting first, and in their eagerness to play they’ve jumped straight into a match instead of double checking to make sure it’s set to superstar as a way to really test the AI.

In my matches on superstar I turned off all advanced settings and @Matt10 my team was solid the positioning was spot on (on both sides) and all of my matches ended 0 – 0 all of them I wanted more variety against me from the AI yes they tried attacking me down the wings and down the middle but any team I used (and having turned advanced tactics off) my team was solid, the matches against the AI on superstar was like a chess match.

So I had a word with Kei Masuda he does speak little English but I was assured that the AI will be cracked up and there is an announcement coming (I was told yes) but I’ll leave it to come out officially.

Other than that the game is truly amazing I’m blown away right now Konami needs to keep it like this not to suddenly speed it up (I feed this back too)

My first match was against Shogun from PESUniverse it was a chess match I noticed he had three advanced tactics switched on (three) and I turned all mine off and played a 451 with Borussia Dortmund (Shogun used Brazil) – it was a tight match but in the second half with the score still at 0 – 0 Marcelo charged up the pitch abandoning his position Shogun feed him the ball and attempted a one two with Gabriel Jesus but misjudged the pass power needed (very important in this game) and the loose ball was picked up by Papastathopoulos I saw Reus out wide all alone so pinged the ball out to him, yes Shogun is starting to panic - the ball did drop short but Reus came forward to pick up the ball and Shogun’s defenders were stretched with Reus ball back into midfield to Shinji Kagawa, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang made a glorious bending run and I fed him the ball had he tucked it away a low shot into the bottom corner …. I got the first win of the day and I said to Shogun who needs advanced tactics.

Be careful using advanced tactics they do disrupt the shape of your team they can be erratic when going forward and leaving gaps.

To @Matt10 when I played 451 advanced tactics turned off I put one of the centre midfielders as a DM and his positioning was glorious he hovered around the halfway line only venturing slightly forward to make himself available as an outlet so that I could keep possession and probe Shogun’s Brazil.

Long post sorry so here goes quickly:

Tried Pass Support 3 the passes go to the first player it sees it’s very very restrictive.
Pass support 2 it’s like the game is assuming you want the ball where you’re pointing so you will misplace passes very dangerous in PES2018 giving the ball away so cheaply is like coming suicide
Pass support 1 ….. FREDOOM!!!! much much much more freer than PES2017 so I fed this back to Kei Masuda please keep the passing like this.

Collisions: …… GLORIOUS I like the way you’re in control of a player when someone is coming to try and win the ball back your player automatically looks to protect the ball (for eg) I watched lots of games as well to see people’s reactions and David Fish was raving how Jordan Henderson put an arm out as Gabi (Atlético Madrid) was harassing him to win the ball.

Gameplay: FIFA sit down PES has this in the bag PES2018 is a new way to play.
Play this game like PES2017 your done and it’s your fault, blame yourself, people will be shock how different this game really is it’s not the same as any PES before it.

Videos don’t do this game justice you have to play this game to see and feel what it is … the online Beta cannot come quick enough I will play this game at home and at work.

Konami are working hard right now and if the minor adjustments are not complete then the beta will be the E3 code that I played at Anfield yesterday, there’s enough there to see and enjoy.
Graphics: @LynnMcG23 you have PS4pro? and a 4K Tv? well the graphics are insane the grass is sweet beautiful in daytime as sexy at night we played on PS4pro’s at Anfield, the previous tour at Barcelona Nou camp (two days ago) played on normal PS4’s

And the game’s not finished yet more work will be done in the graphics dept
As for the PC “oh my days” …. sick looking graphics a lot of the guys were saying I’m getting a PC

Gameplay Speed: PERFECT !!! fed this back do not change the pace of the game. It’s your choice if you want to try and play fast paced one touch passing it’s a risk.

Crossing Headers SORTED you have to earn it now defenders will even bump into you (as they are challenging the header) to stop you from getting accuracy on your header and the keeper does come out and catch the ball

Ok I’m done but will answer questions no doubt …. I love this game well done for the amazing work done by the development team in Japan ….the King is back indeed.

how can I go back to PES2017 ....... I can't
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http://winningelevenblog.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24488&p=465671#p465668
 
scholes1 said:
Of course I do and a for the 3rd time, I'm not saying shooting is perfect now but if you saw a compilation of good stuff from PES6 and hadn't played it, you'd have the same response.

On your point and konami saying it's realistic and getting your hopes up. I'd suggest you realise that marketing spiel is just that and not get influenced by it.

I just think the way these videos are picked apart is pretty extreme and we could do the same on the old games. It's like everyone's decided they can no longer enjoy it unless it's perfect.

I remember getting SO frustrated with the PS2 games but there was so much good I accepted it. This PES looks to be the first which I can do that again.
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I have never, in my entire PES career (lol, if I can call it that), been as frustrated as I have been during the PES 2008 - current era. Yes there were things that needed improvement pre PES 2008, but never as broken as post PES 2008. Post PES 2008 was the era I couldn't play more than a few months, or on and off. Pre PES 2008 I could play the game all year long, 5 days a week (was out on weekends). I was even thinking about the game while out. Who I'm playing next and what tactics will I play.

I remember writing down a very long list of players I'm interested in for every position, which spanned almost 5 pages which I had to slowly narrow down picking the best stats for the position for whatever limited money I'm allowed to spend. You can call it a scout list. Players to me were stats. Stats made all the difference. It was very time consuming, yet I enjoyed every second. It was a very rewarding investment. The best team I enjoyed putting together was Palermo's. My star player was Corini. Caracciolo turned into a beast as well. I think I later paired him with Pandev and had Rocchi on the bench (Both I somehow managed to buy off Lazio, not in the same season of course). I want all this magic back again. I know I don't have the time like I used to, but I want to look forward to my next ML buy that will unlock defenses or stop all attacks. I want stats to matter as much as they did back then and spend a whole day in the transfer window scouting for the perfect buy.

tl;dr, I hope you're right.
 
I
Lami said:
I have never, in my entire PES career (lol, if I can call it that), been as frustrated as I have been during the PES 2008 - current era. Yes there were things that needed improvement pre PES 2008, but never as broken as post PES 2008. Post PES 2008 was the era I couldn't play more than a few months, or on and off. Pre PES 2008 I could play the game all year long, 5 days a week (was out on weekends). I was even thinking about the game while out. Who I'm playing next and what tactics will I play.

I remember writing down a very long list of players I'm interested in for every position, which spanned almost 5 pages which I had to slowly narrow down picking the best stats for the position for whatever limited money I'm allowed to spend. You can call it a scout list. Players to me were stats. Stats made all the difference. It was very time consuming, yet I enjoyed every second. It was a very rewarding investment. The best team I enjoyed putting together was Palermo's. My star player was Corini. Caracciolo turned into a beast as well. I think I later paired him with Pandev and had Rocchi on the bench (Both I somehow managed to buy off Lazio, not in the same season of course). I want all this magic back again. I know I don't have the time like I used to, but I want to look forward to my next ML buy that will unlock defenses or stop all attacks. I want stats to matter as much as they did back then and spend a whole day in the transfer window scouting for the perfect buy.

tl;dr, I hope you're right.
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I get you, man. I was the same guy.

I think my frustration peaked at 2015 and I didn't bother with the game for a couple of years. I've now mellowed out. I can't put time into the game like I used to so I'd rather look and what enjoyment I can have when I do play it.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that my frustration was born out of not necessarily what PES was doing wrong but moreso what FIFA was doing right. I actually initially fell out of love with PES during PES 2008. The game had suddenly become stale, nothing had changed from ps2, yet things were missing. I saw what FIFA was doing and what it looked like and suddenly PES was inferior and by a distance. Things like first touch error, passing freedom, great gks, added dribbling depth etc all came from FIFA (not in all in 2008 but they'd done enough to turn my head). Suddenly what PES did wasn't enough.

There is still something PES has though that sets it apart from FIFA and it's still PES at its core. From what I'm seeing, the other things have finally caught up and I can enjoy that PES DNA.

And if they have cracked it with fox, the stats etc that once made it great will undoubtedly make their way back in future iterations. Until seeing this game, I never thought I'd think that again. In fact, I think I said on wenb once that PES is finished.
 
pacpes said:
There's no real movement, though
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DDFoLh-WAAAvZwy.jpg

https://twitter.com/morgandelamare
 
scholes1 said:
Going to struggle with playing either FIFA or pes17 after seeing these videos. I just LOOKS So so good.

That video was far less end to end as well.
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Yea, It does look good. Not sure if the shooting will be/feel any good though? Deal breaker for me if it isn't.
 
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I was sceptical at first, but after watching many videos I really appreciate this PES. I personally think it can get even better animation-wise but it's rather satisfying as it is.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention one thing which shocked me. It's not related to the gameplay itself, but I was really shocked by all the criticism and hate towards PES coming from all the FIFA kids/fanboys on twitter and youtube. Ok, we all know the game isn't perfect, but for God's sake, why so much hate?

I watched the video of a french youtuber who was invited by Konami at the Nou Camp, and almost all the comments on his video are just hateful towards PES. IMO, Konami shouldn't have invited such guys to play the game. I don't want to criticize, but let's face the truth : some people just hate PES, they don't like it, period. It's very unlikely they'll change their opinion on PES that easily.

We're in a era where superficial matters a lot, and, my opinion is that's exactly why it's so tough for PES against FIFA when it comes to achieving mass success. Konami should take that aspect into account and build a solid strategy accordingly. A good quality game is absolutely necessary of course, and I think PES 2018 will be a very good one, but they need to work on the image of PES as a whole, and it requires more than one or two club partnership here or there.
 
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