PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

[Lami]

Also where is the first touch error around 2:10?

First touch error has been missing for a while now. Everything is so instant and perfect. Even these tiny touches can help reduce end to end madness.

 

[Topaz]

If a game in 2005 can do positioning and transitioning from defense to attack correctly, then why the game in 2017 struggling? Bad/under-paid/lazy developers perhaps. Just plug in WE9-LE and then plugin in PES 2017 and look at the positioning, the off-the-ball movements and the transition from defense to attack and tell me there is nothing wrong.

I can't believe how such a potential amazing game will be ruined by laziness and the lack of knowledge of positioning in football.

 

[Deco]

Edmundo, we've had these same issues for years now, and from the videos we've watched it looks like they haven't changed. These gaps and awful positioning have been plaguing this game for years now and it's only natural that we're sick of it. Are you seriously telling me you've never seen your defenders part like the red sea for no reason even after having given them specific instructions in the tactics what to do? Are we supposed to just watch, wait and hope again for nth year? You seriously think many of us haven't been editing for many hours every year trying to perfect the game to our sim-tastes? Do you really think we can't get it right because we're all.... stupid? No. We've spent a ton of hours and there still is a major issue that we can't fix in edit mode. It is something in the code that needs to be changed. I mean there's just so much we can do until we hit that code-wall. They need to be alerted of this. Now if you have a different game than we do, lucky you!

Like I said before, an extra option added to the game cannot hurt. The "Shifting to attack" for example that was in PES 2014 was in there and I'm taking a guess here that you had no issues with that game back then. So why would it now? Shouldn't you be happy we get more tools to perfect the game? If we didn't have these tools in the first place, then how exactly are you having "ways to edit the formation"? Because you were given the tools we have now! What would you have done without them? Nothing. All we're asking here are more of these editing tools that hurt no one. In fact just one of them that we already had before we'd like to see returned. No harm there. Just don't use it man. Stick to whatever you use now and ignore that extra option.

Just let it be. Enjoy the superior code you always receive and let us peasants with the less superior version ask for some fixes.

Great post Lami. . . very passionate.

 

[Devin]

First touch error has been missing for a while now. Everything is so instant and perfect. Even these tiny touches can help reduce end to end madness.

I was actually impressed with the error they added to first touches. It could be more but that is my personal preference. It looks pretty contextual to how the player's body is positioned to receive the ball, the speed of the pass, if it is on the ground, etc. Here are some examples:

Can be frustrating when arguments are made on here with no proof. We have the tools to show what we mean. As for positioning, yes it totally sucked at times. But we haven't been able to get in there and change even basic settings. B-man said once d-line height was moved up from 1 (??) then it was a huge change. Also, advanced tactics screw things up and do need to be fixed. Attacking fullbacks is so jacked up it isn't even funny. But I wouldn't be too concerned about positioning yet because that could come down to settings. I mean if you play a gegenpress with your back line set to 1, that is just dumb and it will look like dumb football. My main concern is having forwards press backward on defense past the half line. Hopefully, I can just add Track Back to forwards and it will fix the issue. Anyway, I wouldn't lose my mind over positioning because we have no idea what the settings are and what advanced tactics are being used. It could be just really dumb combinations like I mentioned before that the players were using (I don't know why).

 

[kernowdoc]

Are the tactics hard coded for teams when you play a master league?

 

[Devin]

This is my issue with some (not all) of the advanced tactics. Yes, they are rigid which I am ok with, they should be turned on and off for specific actions you want your team to do in that exact moment. BUT, the actual positioning can be so jacked up it is ridiculous. They just need to review the positioning and fix it so it works like real life. For example, attacking fullbacks has one or two midfielders stay all the way back on the midline during attacks. That makes no sense and no team does that. If you have attacking fullbacks the mids might not push forward as far but they won't become CB's. This is why the Liverpool vs Atletico game had so much space when Atletico was attacking, the mids were playing as CB and weren't there to break up the initial build up or at least slow it down. Would if I want to select Attacking Fullbacks and I don't want Lallana or Wijnaldum playing CB (which is a total waste of skilled players that should be in my attack). It is an easy fix but they just need to review these and make little tweaks to fix them. The problem is AI will use advanced tactics no matter what I do so it screws up how the computer plays big time.

And here is the easy fix. Wijnaldum and Lallana push forward slightly (see how they could break up this attack) and CB push in slightly. Yes your wings are open for the counter but that is risk/reward of using attacking fullbacks.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Just imagine if shooting was again contextual for REAL with all these trapping error elements.

Imagine getting a trough ball trapped a bit wrongly with Grizzie towards his weaker foot, yet going one on one with the keeper and you have to make a quick decision to A, dribble pass him B, chip him C, controlled shoot with his weaker foot. And D, single shot is out question because from that angle with that foot he sure ballons it or struck it into the keeper.

THAT WAS PES.

 

[Matt10]

I was actually impressed with the error they added to first touches. It could be more but that is my personal preference. It looks pretty contextual to how the player's body is positioned to receive the ball, the speed of the pass, if it is on the ground, etc. Here are some examples:

Can be frustrating when arguments are made on here with no proof. We have the tools to show what we mean. As for positioning, yes it totally sucked at times. But we haven't been able to get in there and change even basic settings. B-man said once d-line height was moved up from 1 (??) then it was a huge change. Also, advanced tactics screw things up and do need to be fixed. Attacking fullbacks is so jacked up it isn't even funny. But I wouldn't be too concerned about positioning yet because that could come down to settings. I mean if you play a gegenpress with your back line set to 1, that is just dumb and it will look like dumb football. My main concern is having forwards press backward on defense past the half line. Hopefully, I can just add Track Back to forwards and it will fix the issue. Anyway, I wouldn't lose my mind over positioning because we have no idea what the settings are and what advanced tactics are being used. It could be just really dumb combinations like I mentioned before that the players were using (I don't know why).

Everyone said this last year remember? Tactics...advanced instructions....

1 year later, and we're still talking about it. You and I spent hours upon hours of trying to get the positioning fixed. Only with great significant changes could it get a sniff close to where it should be.

I figure, let's make the fuss about the positioning now so the BASE can be there. This fuss isn't for just the likes of you and me, it's for everyone...for good of the game. It's not like anyone would even complain if it was accomplished. It's only for the power of the suggestion that an opinion has to be made to the masses, but that's the Catch-22 of letting the masses know, so the ones with the power can actually sniff a change.

 

[Devin]

Just imagine if shooting was again contextual for REAL with all these trapping error elements.

Imagine getting a trough ball trapped a bit wrongly with Grizzie towards his weaker foot, yet going one on one with the keeper and you have to make a quick decision to A, dribble pass him B, chip him C, controlled shoot with his weaker foot. And D, single shot is out question because from that angle with that foot he sure ballons it or struck it into the keeper.

THAT WAS PES.

Yeah, I used a global editor to make every player's weak foot usage and strength 1 in PES 2017, hahaha.

 

[vialli82]

Agree with first touch, the second gif was a what "impressed" me the most but i forgot to notice, feels more free about contact ball/player.
Controls have now errors (in a positive way) it's noticeable, and makes senses. If you don't see it, perhaps thats because you wanted something else, like a total loose of control without knowing the reason (like in Fifa), which i don't want personnally.

 

[Matt10]

Agree with first touch, the second gif was a what "impressed" me the most but i forgot to notice, feels more free about contact ball/player.
Controls have now errors (in a positive way) it's noticeable, and makes senses. If you don't see it, perhaps thats because you wanted something else, like a total loose of control without knowing the reason (like in Fifa), which i don't want personnally.

The fact that the CPU had a bad touch that went out of bounds was amazing to me. I forgot which video it was, but I saw a nice battle for the ball that resulted in the ball being squirt out between the bodies and out of bounds. Little things like that reminded me of PES 14.

 

[Devin]

Everyone said this last year remember? Tactics...advanced instructions....

1 year later, and we're still talking about it. You and I spent hours upon hours of trying to get the positioning fixed. Only with great significant changes could it get a sniff close to where it should be.

I figure, let's make the fuss about the positioning now so the BASE can be there. This fuss isn't for just the likes of you and me, it's for everyone...for good of the game. It's not like anyone would even complain if it was accomplished. It's only for the power of the suggestion that an opinion has to be made to the masses, but that's the Catch-22 of letting the masses know, so the ones with the power can actually sniff a change.

Agree. Honestly, a lot of it comes down to the Konami teams that are editing the formations, tactics, and players to get it right, to begin with. Most of the settings work pretty well, they just aren't setup correctly (like gegenpress with the defensive line set to 1). The game isn't necessarily broken it is just bad stats.

If I could change one thing about positioning it is that I don't have to edit fluid formations or players to make it so forwards press back on defense. Would make a massive difference and save me a ton of time. A very close second would be just a few of the advanced tactics need repositioning (attacking fullbacks, False 9, gegenpress). The rest actually worked pretty well and I like that they are rigid because then you can you use them at specific times to get your team to do exactly what you want. They shouldn't be on all the time.

From impressions, it sounds like if there is higher difficulty the computer is more aggressive on defense in comparison to that Liverpool game.

Oh yeah, and I would change how ATT/DEF levels are implemented. I would have them changed based on goals, the time left in the match, and who they are playing not on whether the team has the ball or not (that doesn't really make sense). It did look like Liverpool was more patient on Red but it would be a nice change.

 

[vialli82]

I agree Matt about the Cpu but when the context fits, and not because it's bad programming because the player is WTF when a receive a ball from a certain perspective. Stats matters.

In terms of positionning or reactions on the pitch, AI, i want variety. End-to-end matches exists aswell as strict positionning Capello's style. We need both/and related to attack/def prowess and cards of course.

 

[Ameppe]

The frustration for me is that it looks so much better on the ball. Like, amazing. Plus, I've read two people mention that CPU passes go astray. The 4K 60fps video made me swallow a lot of my cynicism.

But if positioning is no different, every game will still be end-to-end (and I fear the ML will still have stupid decisions, i.e. getting retired players as your "youth" players, but that's a whole different thing).

There's just enough time for them to consider positioning. If they hear this message now, they've got half a chance of tweaking it before release (because it's not the kind of thing they'll look at post-release).

But it's getting it through the "gateway" of Adam and Asim, through to the developers. Without going viral, I can't see it.

Did my part, already linked the video to @officialpes.

Anyway, the first Pes team developer is here on twitter. He writes in Japanese, i don't know if he understands English, but it's wort a try to link him the video. He is very close to the japanese development team.

https://twitter.com/tayan

He is the assistant producer for Pes 2018.

 

[Topaz]

Did my part, already linked the video to @officialpes.

Anyway, the first Pes team developer is here on twitter. He writes in Japanese, i don't know if he understands English, but it's wort a try to link him the video. He is very close to the japanese development team.

https://twitter.com/tayan

He is the assistant producer for Pes 2018.

I retweeted him in Japanese.

 

[curdstar]

Some of those controlling touch gifs are absolutely wonderful.

 

[pacpes]

I was actually impressed with the error they added to first touches. It could be more but that is my personal preference. It looks pretty contextual to how the player's body is positioned to receive the ball, the speed of the pass, if it is on the ground, etc. Here are some examples:

Can be frustrating when arguments are made on here with no proof. We have the tools to show what we mean. As for positioning, yes it totally sucked at times. But we haven't been able to get in there and change even basic settings. B-man said once d-line height was moved up from 1 (??) then it was a huge change. Also, advanced tactics screw things up and do need to be fixed. Attacking fullbacks is so jacked up it isn't even funny. But I wouldn't be too concerned about positioning yet because that could come down to settings. I mean if you play a gegenpress with your back line set to 1, that is just dumb and it will look like dumb football. My main concern is having forwards press backward on defense past the half line. Hopefully, I can just add Track Back to forwards and it will fix the issue. Anyway, I wouldn't lose my mind over positioning because we have no idea what the settings are and what advanced tactics are being used. It could be just really dumb combinations like I mentioned before that the players were using (I don't know why).

I loved all this stuff since the first time I saw them when watching the videos. I'm actually concerned that they'll gradually patch the game to mess up things again...

 

[PES94]

If a game in 2005 can do positioning and transitioning from defense to attack correctly, then why the game in 2017 struggling? Bad/under-paid/lazy developers perhaps. Just plug in WE9-LE and then plugin in PES 2017 and look at the positioning, the off-the-ball movements and the transition from defense to attack and tell me there is nothing wrong.

I can't believe how such a potential amazing game will be ruined by laziness and the lack of knowledge of positioning in football.

Back then there were more stats. We had stats like Agression and Tenacity for positioning and transition.

......

Also can we sign a petition for better running and shooting animations. The lack of variety is sickening. The fact that you can't use your weak foot for shooting and crossing is just sad and unrealistic. In real life a player would try to avoid his weaker foot, but when it's a game and you press a button you would have to use the weaker foot. That's the variety that we need. On PES players shoot with the stronger foot from almost all positions, places were in real life it's impossible physically. It's an issue where I don't think a lot of people noticed.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

Also where is the first touch error around 2:10?

gif it then send it to konami.
that's a bad physics example that just makes more end to end play.

I wonder with these new game menus if they are just a color change or a complete overhaul. Something that's faster to navigate.

 

[talucchesi]

This is my issue with some (not all) of the advanced tactics. Yes, they are rigid which I am ok with, they should be turned on and off for specific actions you want your team to do in that exact moment. BUT, the actual positioning can be so jacked up it is ridiculous. They just need to review the positioning and fix it so it works like real life. For example, attacking fullbacks has one or two midfielders stay all the way back on the midline during attacks. That makes no sense and no team does that. If you have attacking fullbacks the mids might not push forward as far but they won't become CB's. This is why the Liverpool vs Atletico game had so much space when Atletico was attacking, the mids were playing as CB and weren't there to break up the initial build up or at least slow it down. Would if I want to select Attacking Fullbacks and I don't want Lallana or Wijnaldum playing CB (which is a total waste of skilled players that should be in my attack). It is an easy fix but they just need to review these and make little tweaks to fix them. The problem is AI will use advanced tactics no matter what I do so it screws up how the computer plays big time.

And here is the easy fix. Wijnaldum and Lallana push forward slightly (see how they could break up this attack) and CB push in slightly. Yes your wings are open for the counter but that is risk/reward of using attacking fullbacks.

I remember me and Matt clamoring about this exact issue this time last year. I was so excited to finally have attacking fullbacks as an option and quickly became so disapointed when I saw how it was implemented. It was one of the main small reasons I didn't buy the game last year. I just don't understand how a developer for a major sports game doesn't realize this and fix it right away. NOBODY in Konami said anything?

Edit: Just saw your post Matt, lol

 

[PES94]

 

[Jimi_Zuko]

I'm waiting for ML news for me to buy the game at full price, if objectives and release clauses are the only upgrades i can wait 3 months till it drops to 20 bux cause to me game won't be worth full price, Will be extremely disappointed if I control Liverpool and finished 10th and I still hear that everyone doesn't want to leave cos this is the greatest club to be at, tells me these developers don't care about fixing these small issues, gameplay upgrade isn't enough for me this time.

 

[Lami]

I was actually impressed with the error they added to first touches. It could be more but that is my personal preference. It looks pretty contextual to how the player's body is positioned to receive the ball, the speed of the pass, if it is on the ground, etc. Here are some examples:

Can be frustrating when arguments are made on here with no proof. We have the tools to show what we mean.

Appreciate the effort, though you've showed some instances of it, but when compared to the many instances where literally first touch is completely non-existent, they're minimal. I wish you took the same time to convert youtube clips to gifs of many non-existent first touches as you did these, would've been easier too since they're many. But anyway, we can all watch the videos and see how badly done they are. Many of them even look as bad as something I'd expect from a football game on the NES. Ball falling to a player's feet with his back to the ball yet it somehow magically slides to the front. These obviously aren't realistic and are very arcadey. It helps with super quick transitions and quicker gameplay and sure add to the fun factor to the overall gameplay with no frustrations, but that isn't real football.

 

[Lami]

Well, I said f it and went ahead and created some gifs. So here we go.

Lol. No comment.

I'm not sure what's up with this animation? It's supposed to come on the right side but goes through his foot onto the other foot and sticks and slides forward?

Running towards the ball, traps it with instep/bridge, which should mean the ball drops infront of him, yet it falls behind him, perfectly :/ All to make that quick transition to attack, because God forbid we have another touch on the ball to properly stop it infront then turn around to find the opposition caught up.

I think you used this one to show signs of good trapping but look at the direction he's running and with which part of his foot he manages to stop it and how the ball perfectly moves along his path. I find this very hard to believe. It should drop a little to the left. I'll just leave it there.

These last 2 are more a combination of skatey animations (lack of footplanting), collision detection, and trap error. All to make the game more fun. In the first one Griezmann receives the ball on his left and then goes through his right foot to fall properly in his path to score. IRL this would result in the ball bouncing off his right foot.

There are many more that happen every game. And the problem with these also that the CPU AI uses them to cheat its way through on many occasions to score. These have been plaguing the game for years and I find it really surprising the devs can't see them. I guess they do see them and done on purpose to keep the flow going and not ruin the fun.

 

[*aLe]

Visually top notch!
Kits, lighting, tattoos, facial scans never looked better.

Kits leave me kinda 'meh' again but all the rest I see looks very very promising.
Can't wait to try it out!

 

[flokiman]

Hello guys. I overpass AI/strategies etc. I'll stick to graphics/animations/collisios/physics thing.

First of all GRAPHICS.
1. I cannot see where is this "photorealism" Nothing can convince me that "looks real", grass, stadium, players, lighting.
Compared to PES 2014, where photorealism was very good, and some videos looked like TV match. Why is this happening? KONAMI made a spot on step in 2014 and since then , sabotaged itself...And pes 2014 was running on PS3...

2. Animations. A noticable step forward, especially in running, walking, turning animations. More fluid and realistic. Still not in parity with PES 2014, which was spot on in terms of footplanting and smoothness.

3. Physics. Ball seems more free, it gains height even in low passes, spins a little bit more (2015, 16,17 was like a bowling ball), but still the spinning and rolling of PES 2014 isn't here which was spot on again.

Overall PES 2018 doesnot seem realistic at all, but the purpose is, even if it looks clearly like a game, to be a FLUID , NEXT GEN , game. Pes 2014 was a tech demo by KONAMI, showing what can they do. Then they removed all technology in PES 2015 which was rigid, stiff, clearly a ex-gen game. Since then KONAMI adds some staff to balance playability and optical realism.

 

[tobi]

Have Konami said anything about tactics in general and the BAL mode?

They aren't perfect but IMO they're the benchmark, if a PES developer played NBA 2K and MLB The Show, they could learn so much and PES would benefit greatly.

It can all be built on top of what is there now and add greater depth and more options.

 

[curdstar]

Still think it looks pretty sweet.

 

[PESBUL]

We need your support! Thanks for the response!

Link to tweet: https://twitter.com/PES_Russia/status/875719093709672448

They add auto-fint for the noobs, but a super cancel with just one button !? ... come on ... I use super cancel since PES 6 , R1+R2 is the way how must be and how must stay ! Over the years, it has been lost, but in PES 2017 super cancel has come back with full power and works great. Don't mess with it !

 

[Lami]

Still think it looks pretty sweet.

To an extent yes, but it could be phenomenal.