PES 2018 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

I just couldn't wait to win a mug... so I made some myself! :)
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Looking forward to my first cup of coffee tomorrow morning! :D
 
Daisuk said:
I thought Konami was on to something with their stadium editor. Had they kept developing that since it first came we'd able to make all kinds of stadiums now, and no one could be talking about copyrights and what have you. But doesn't seem to be happening.

When is the demo out? Wednesday?
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Jupp,30th,which time isn't leaked yet,to my knowledge.
Remember getting it around 3-4 pm standard european time last year,on a NZ account
 
rockstrongo said:
Agree,bad defenders making bad decision.
Should be simple,love that in the other game.
Hate how the refs give red cards for nothing in the other game as well
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man thats what pes needs, reckless defending, u just said it, u notice people who talk about the game that its all positives and no negatives at all, look how blinded man, they don t even comment on our inputs about what should be better, they just talk about stadium editor instead of talking about the darn no penalty situation which is a game breaker by far
man i don t understand this world....
 
ramgamer said:
man thats what pes needs, reckless defending, u just said it, u notice people who talk about the game that its all positives and no negatives at all, look how blinded man, they don t even comment on our inputs about what should be better, they just talk about stadium editor instead of talking about the darn no penalty situation which is a game breaker by far
man i don t understand this world....
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Okay, let's talk reckless defending...

I haven't played the game enough yet to comment on whether it exists, is an issue, or how much it impacts the game overall it being there or not.

But let's assume for a moment that there isn't going to be enough reckless defending in the game: what is your solution?

Honestly not being funny or confrontational and I extend that question to everyone: what are your solutions if it proves there isn't enough reckless defending, a lack of fouls and penalties in the game?

Let's carve out some ideas and potential solutions. Let's discuss how a fouling system should work in pure mechanical and gameplay terms. Let's try to do so without posting real-life examples of fouls in isolation because we need to be far more substantive than that.
 
U
curdstar said:
Okay, let's talk reckless defending...

I haven't played the game enough yet to comment on whether it exists, is an issue, or how much it impacts the game overall it being there or not.

But let's assume for a moment that there isn't going to be enough reckless defending in the game: what is your solution?

Honestly not being funny or confrontational and I extend that question to everyone: what are your solutions if it proves there isn't enough reckless defending, a lack of fouls and penalties in the game?

Let's carve out some ideas and potential solutions. Let's discuss how a fouling system should work in pure mechanical and gameplay terms. Let's try to do so without posting real-life examples of fouls in isolation because we need to be far more substantive than that.
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U Tell me, how can i come up with a solution im not a dev, why is the other game good in this aspect? Why can t they make the foul system logical and working? They say its simulation of football, i can t see where is the simulation here
 
curdstar said:
Okay, let's talk reckless defending...

I haven't played the game enough yet to comment on whether it exists, is an issue, or how much it impacts the game overall it being there or not.

But let's assume for a moment that there isn't going to be enough reckless defending in the game: what is your solution?

Honestly not being funny or confrontational and I extend that question to everyone: what are your solutions if it proves there isn't enough reckless defending, a lack of fouls and penalties in the game?

Let's carve out some ideas and potential solutions. Let's discuss how a fouling system should work in pure mechanical and gameplay terms. Let's try to do so without posting real-life examples of fouls in isolation because we need to be far more substantive than that.
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1: More harsh refereeing - Sometimes fouls are commited by the CPU, but the ref simply doesn't blow the whistle. You go back, watch the replays and you see there was a clear foul. Specially in derbies. shirt-pulling should be considered a foul (more often than not, specially when you have a clear scoring chance in front of you).

2: More aggressive defending from CPU as minutes go by. It would be nice if match got dirtier as minutes pass.

3: Smaller teams should do more tactical fouls to stop you from building scoring chances.

4: Implement different types of referee strictness. So some times you get frustrated because they barely consider anything to be a free-kick, but sometimes even the weakest physical contact is considered a foul. Specially in important matches, like Champions League.

Overall I think that CPU aggressivity and harsher refereeing are the key.

Of course, all this is coming from my personal previous experiences with PES 2017. No idea how it is in PES 2018 yet, let's hope it's not that bad. But if it is, then those are my ideas.
 
Chuny said:
1: More harsh refereeing - Sometimes fouls are commited by the CPU, but the ref simply doesn't blow the whistle. You go back, watch the replays and you see there was a clear foul. Specially in derbies. shirt-pulling should be considered a foul (more often than not, specially when you have a clear scoring chance in front of you).

2: More aggressive defending from CPU as minutes go by. It would be nice if match got dirtier as minutes pass.

3: Smaller teams should do more tactical fouls to stop you from building scoring chances.

4: Implement different types of referee strictness. So some times you get frustrated because they barely consider anything to be a free-kick, but sometimes even the weakest physical contact is considered a foul. Specially in important matches, like Champions League.

Overall I think that CPU aggressivity and harsher refereeing are the key.

Of course, all this is coming from my personal previous experiences with PES 2017. No idea how it is in PES 2018 yet, let's hope it's not that bad. But if it is, then those are my ideas.
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All good points.
Love the 3rd one,that would be great having
Also it should,if possible,both ends of the pitch,have some connection to fatigue as well.
Crappy decisions when tired
 
I'd love a MATCH ID-feature. Little things that would separate matches more. Slight changes in weather and light conditions based on when the match is played, the amount of people in the stands matching however well the team is doing, supporters wearing t-shirts if it's a summer game, same with players, the reactions from the fans in the pitch reflecting how well the team is doing overall etc.

Also, it would be great if for ONCE you could play the CPU and actually feel a difference between who you play. If you played West Brom, you'd feel their physical presence, long balls, but complete lack of speed and creativity, for instance. As well as Liverpool's lightening quick attacks, counter attacks, high pressure, but leaky squeeky defense etc. Kane's presence as a lone striker, Wanyama bossing the midfield, Trippier shitting his pants on the right back etc. Haha. That would be great. It's been talked about so much for years already, but let's be honest, there's not much of a difference playing say Arsenal and West Brom apart from the individual player skills. Strategies and formations should really be way more important and really felt in the game.
 
curdstar said:
Okay, let's talk reckless defending...

I haven't played the game enough yet to comment on whether it exists, is an issue, or how much it impacts the game overall it being there or not.

But let's assume for a moment that there isn't going to be enough reckless defending in the game: what is your solution?

Honestly not being funny or confrontational and I extend that question to everyone: what are your solutions if it proves there isn't enough reckless defending, a lack of fouls and penalties in the game?

Let's carve out some ideas and potential solutions. Let's discuss how a fouling system should work in pure mechanical and gameplay terms. Let's try to do so without posting real-life examples of fouls in isolation because we need to be far more substantive than that.
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Too much spaces between players in pes. Thus resulting in less contact between them and less foul. To increase foul: Reduce spaces between players and make the match more compact. Strikers should have minimum freedom than any other player on the field.
 
Chuny said:
1: More harsh refereeing - Sometimes fouls are commited by the CPU, but the ref simply doesn't blow the whistle. You go back, watch the replays and you see there was a clear foul. Specially in derbies. shirt-pulling should be considered a foul (more often than not, specially when you have a clear scoring chance in front of you).

2: More aggressive defending from CPU as minutes go by. It would be nice if match got dirtier as minutes pass.

3: Smaller teams should do more tactical fouls to stop you from building scoring chances.

4: Implement different types of referee strictness. So some times you get frustrated because they barely consider anything to be a free-kick, but sometimes even the weakest physical contact is considered a foul. Specially in important matches, like Champions League.

Overall I think that CPU aggressivity and harsher refereeing are the key.

Of course, all this is coming from my personal previous experiences with PES 2017. No idea how it is in PES 2018 yet, let's hope it's not that bad. But if it is, then those are my ideas.
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Excellent ideas in there, mate.

I've thought about it myself and one of the crazier ideas I had was reversing the :x: button defending mechanics.

Currently, pressure is on :x: which I have no problem with but what it does is allow you to charge, barge, use body weight and strength to win the ball back at close quarters, all by simply holding down :x:

I would actually consider these smarter, more finesse defensive methods. Winning the ball at such close quarters using such methods is what I would call a "skill" but one that is easy enough to practice and perfect over time.

What I suggest is that defending with such finesse should be more exception than rule by default. I would then suggest that such defensive prowess should demand a tiny bit more thought and composure by the user.

Solution?

Make it so that pressing :x: is still pressure but instead of a player just homing in straight on the ball at close quarters he will actually perform what is currently a double tap :x: lunge. A potentially clumsier and wilder tackle unless you stop it from being so.

So just to be clear :x: will still have your defender run to the ball but once they are close in they will do a very deliberate lunge standing tackle.

What this does is make simply holding down :x: to press and defend way more risky, but it is the default approach when holding :x:

But you can stop the player lunging by default if you quickly release :x: and tap and hold it again. Doing this quickly will allow you to maintain the players momentum and essentially instruct him to try to take the ball cleanly, using all the techniques that are of a more finessed nature... or not because you could still foul the player in possession.

It is simply demanding a quick release then tap and hold of the same button you were already pressing in order to change how your defender approaches the ball. Everything is the same as the what it is currently in PES2017 and PES2018 to perform the lunging tackle. It is the exact same input but what it does is different.

There are no additional buttons to press, it is simply a reverse of the existing control scheme, and personally, the more I think about it, the more logical it is to me: if I want to defend "cleaner" and with more "finesse", then it is a skill I need to learn and nail timing on. The thing is, with this all kept on one button and not hidden away on some other one requiring you to finger dance you will be practicing and fine tuning a lot and with relative ease, as it is on one button.

I reckon it would result in more slide tackle usage for a start.

What I think that would do is see a potential increase in user generated fouls. How that switch would impact the AI's defensive play is another thing, admittedly.

Oh, and if you have opted to try defend by charging the ball down you can still try the standard lunge by quickly releasing and tapping and holding :x: again.

As for using :r1: and :x: to charge, by default the player is going to sprint toward the ball and carrier and do an even more aggressive lunge (maybe earlier or just wilder) if you don't release :x: and quickly tap and hold it again so as to instruct your player to not lunge. That could help sort out sprint pressure being so frequent in the game as it isn't the default action that it is currently.

So far as :square: button secondary pressure goes, you could apply the same logic to it.

My logic here is that instinctively, a player wants to get the ball back as soon as possible and by changing what the standard inputs are you are being forced to manage that eagerness, those instincts which could be, should be potentially costly.

What do you hear often around you, what do you say often when playing or watching football in most defensive situations that you want to be dealt with effectively?

"Stay on your feet" which basically means "Don't go lunging in"

Making the player having to do that by you pressing :x: twice is you saying that with a button.


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The other thing that was knocking about my head was what the Manual Modifier button could be used for in defensive situations.

My first idea was "hot switching" in that one press and it you would switch to a pre-defined "preferred player" for you to immediately switch to and have control over.

I thought of this when I was playing the beta and enjoying the more off-the-ball carrier defensive style in which I was doing ad-hoc man-marking and trying to cut out passing lanes and shift players position and how the "next player" cursor was helping me manage the defensive side of the game but I just wished I could press one button and for it to switch to a preferred player. Think defending from midfield back with France and being able to press :l2: and it switches to Kante, because he is the first player it switches to if you press that button when defending. Press it again and you switch to the second preferred player, and repeat onward to cycle through all the players. I know I would like to have that option at my disposal when defending.

Now admittedly, that isn't going to directly increase foul count but leaving more to the secondary presser might result in greater potential of fouls.

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Other idea I had: the chipped shot feint, Basically allows the player to lift the ball upwards after a shot feint; completely driven by stats and circumstance. Press :square: and double or triple tap :x: Player dinks it up following a feint to shoot in one move but looks to keep control of the ball. I was actually also thinking of this as a super-short passing mechanic too. Again, it doesn't directly impact on the fouling system but could, if you applied my defensive mechanics into the equation. Risk/Reward on both sides on that one.

To be honest, I think more shot/pass-feint varieties that are easy enough to pull off with practice could possibly indirectly increase foul count if there were more possible outcomes as to the execution of the feint. Think of that as making feints, along with weight shift feints in dribbling a touch easier to try and execute (but I stress it needs to be stats driven) but because they are easy regards how they are mapped players are more inclined to try them, thus potentially and in a lot of cases unintentionally they are drawing fouls almost sub-consciously.
 
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Very good!

Actually, while I was reading your post I started realizing how limited the defensive part of football games (both FIFA and PES) are.
When you have the ball and you are attacking you can do skill moves, feint shots, dribble, out run a slower player chasing you, you can pass the ball in many ways, you can decelerate, stop altogether, etc.
But when your opponent has the ball, there are just a button for pressing, another one to have a team-mate pressure, sliding-tackle, and sprint. I think there should be a separate button to pull the shirt to slow the opponent down, another one to use the shoulder and arm to try and push him off balance (like LT for left shoulder and RT for right one - But careful, if you hold it down for too long, you might actually commit a foul). And different types of sliding tackles: One that's more aggressive, and one that could be use to simple get ahead of and pass it to one of your team-mates.

For example, let's say that CR7 is being controlled by the CPU, and he pushes the ball a bit too far away to gain more speed, and you have a player close to the ball but you won't be able to just catch the ball and run with it, it would be nice to be able to slide and pass the ball without trying to actually knock Ronaldo down. Simple clean dispossessing sliding pass. Like Busquets does some times.

Furthermore, new stats should be included, I think a new one for 'Timing' is mandatory. Some defenders have great timing and some are always late and end up committing more fouls. This would also help increasing fouls amount.
 
Chuny said:
Very good!

Actually, while I was reading your post I started realizing how limited the defensive part of football games (both FIFA and PES) are.
When you have the ball and you are attacking you can do skill moves, feint shots, dribble, out run a slower player chasing you, you can pass the ball in many ways, you can decelerate, stop altogether, etc.
But when your opponent has the ball, there are just a button for pressing, another one to have a team-mate pressure, sliding-tackle, and sprint. I think there should be a separate button to pull the shirt to slow the opponent down, another one to use the shoulder and arm to try and push him off balance (like LT for left shoulder and RT for right one - But careful, if you hold it down for too long, you might actually commit a foul). And different types of sliding tackles: One that's more aggressive, and one that could be use to simple get ahead of and pass it to one of your team-mates.

For example, let's say that CR7 is being controlled by the CPU, and he pushes the ball a bit too far away to gain more speed, and you have a player close to the ball but you won't be able to just catch the ball and run with it, it would be nice to be able to slide and pass the ball without trying to actually knock Ronaldo down. Simple clean dispossessing sliding pass. Like Busquets does some times.

Furthermore, new stats should be included, I think a new one for 'Timing' is mandatory. Some defenders have great timing and some are always late and end up committing more fouls. This would also help increasing fouls amount.
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Again, good ideas dude, but where I would maybe disagree is mapping of certain controls on more buttons, because I want the game to be as accessible as possible regards users, options in control and how to execute. Want it nice and streamlined regards mapping so as your instincts are easy to manage and execute regards options, but it not becoming a finger dance, thus potentially completely alienating some players. All about getting a control balance that is just right and naturally encourages more players but for it to be on a more even playing field.

Your slide tackle idea is a good one and is something that could be mapped to a double tap of :circle: , for example, or press of :circle: quickly followed by :x: Has to be a stats and context driven thing though.

I honestly think there are tons of additional use of the face buttons, the basic controls, that both games could do with trying to unearth. I think it is that which could bring the game closer to being a true evolution of the series as the PS and PS2 games were all about these quick and easy controls, and the use of wee combos, that gave the game its hidden depth.
 
Love this ideas. Enjoying reading those posts.

Quick question, can you do the New Zealand account thing with xbox one? I play on pc, but my roomie is out of town, and I'm sure he won't mind me using his Xbone.
 
Chuny said:
1: More harsh refereeing - Sometimes fouls are commited by the CPU, but the ref simply doesn't blow the whistle. You go back, watch the replays and you see there was a clear foul. Specially in derbies. shirt-pulling should be considered a foul (more often than not, specially when you have a clear scoring chance in front of you).

2: More aggressive defending from CPU as minutes go by. It would be nice if match got dirtier as minutes pass.

3: Smaller teams should do more tactical fouls to stop you from building scoring chances.

4: Implement different types of referee strictness. So some times you get frustrated because they barely consider anything to be a free-kick, but sometimes even the weakest physical contact is considered a foul. Specially in important matches, like Champions League.

Overall I think that CPU aggressivity and harsher refereeing are the key.

Of course, all this is coming from my personal previous experiences with PES 2017. No idea how it is in PES 2018 yet, let's hope it's not that bad. But if it is, then those are my ideas.
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I decided that a great way to come up with ideas for next PES for both: New defensive system/animations/buttons AND new fouls is to watch this kind of videos:




Just by watching it, you can get many ideas of what could be implemented in PES (i.e: players losing balance, trying hard to keep running with the ball and not to fall).
 
The problem with defending is that it's the key to scripting, AI advantage and influencing games online.

Fifa removed the heat seeking defending styled where you just press one button and your players follow the ball and win it...This still exists in PES who in PES 2013 tried to introduce advanced defending where pressing x twice made a tackle and you had two types of jockeying similar to the existing FIFA tactical defending.

The problem is that the game needs to be able to open holes in your defences or make your players miss their tackles in order to create chances, Also stats don't seem to matter once the game decides an outcome. If they give us total freedom and fairnees in defending and player switching then we'll see a lot of people mastering it and shutting up goals, Which is an art really.

As for fouls, In PES 2017 Konami tried to fix things, But the AI fouls seemed cheesy and not very natural, Just a typical late tackle once or twice a match and that's it on average, No penalties or pushes frequent enough, Which is Stilll better than 16. The way to go is different referee strictness where one would call everything and the other is what we have now until they improve the collision in the game. Even basketball games have more physical play than the spacing we're seeing where it's one on one all over the pitch.
 
banbenbin said:
Love this ideas. Enjoying reading those posts.

Quick question, can you do the New Zealand account thing with xbox one? I play on pc, but my roomie is out of town, and I'm sure he won't mind me using his Xbone.
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Yeah I did it last year,just set your region to whatever you want.
 
to all my kiwi's fellas
in order to create New Zealand account its enough to choose it from the country list?
no need for city name, postal code or something?
 
...3hours51mins remaining, to 12am NZ time... so aussies getting it 10pm... cannot wait :)
Moving house in 1 day, so ive left our 65"plasma, ps4 controller, n modem.. just for this night ... comeon konami... deliver the goods on time so I can do a solid 3hours of gaming :)
 
devek said:
to all my kiwi's fellas
in order to create New Zealand account its enough to choose it from the country list?
no need for city name, postal code or something?
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i would put in post code and city.

just google a hotel or store in new zealand and use their address and zip code :)
 
RockyJJP said:
Hahaha, Classic. We all Kiwi's today :LOL:.

At work, But PS4 ready fro autodownload
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Excuse my ignorance (and poor research skills, as I'm sure someone posted this not so long ago), but how do you actually autodownload a ps4 demo that hasn't come out yet??? I know how to autodownload updates etc, but not specific demo's... Thanks in advance for an info on this. May have to do the good old, "check every 10secs after midnight method" ;)
 
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