PES 2018 BETA Discussion Thread

[The Power]

Don't worry, I know what you mean because I've tried a ton of rocket shots when I'm a few goals up. I haven't scored any but they do always go very close to goal, which is what I think you're talking about.

Thank you. This is exactly what I mean. The shots are often hard and precise (also with avarage players) but rarely end up in a goal. Most of them are catched by the keeper or go a few centimeters neat the post.

 

[Northzzz]

Thank you. This is exactly what I mean. The shots are often hard and precise but rarely end up in a goal. Most of them are catched by the keeper or go a few centimeters neat the post.

Yeah. It's undeniable.

 

[curdstar]

@Northzzz

I use auto shooting.

You just don't get it. It depends on your playstyle. When I only use crosses I will not see any rocket shots but when I go for distance shots I will see many of them in one game which should not be the case! Make it simple: When I hit 10 distance shots and most of them are rocket shots with avarage and star players, with wrong foot than the shooting is not right which is the case. You also keep avoiding my question: "So in your opinion the shots in PES 2018 are overall fine and not to strong/rocket like?"
I mean the wenb forum is full of criticism about the shooting : http://winningelevenblog.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24502&start=980

"Almost everyone is criticising shooting yet no words from anyone at Konami besides we are improving shooting animations, and others saying the code i played was miles better... Yet when the Game is Out almost all the problems still there..."

...but what ever. This is my final word on this topic:

Every player can now and then perform a rocket shot with weaker foot and you see this kind of rocket shots to often So the heart of the problem is that it's just too easy to pull off these shots. If shooting was more difficult, contextual, individualistic, and made you feel like you really scored the goal instead of just pressing a button and waiting for the outcome.
In the past when shooting was great and rewarding, we know we achieved something when we scored a goal like that, speccially with default ML players. It was a junction of stats, form arrow, monentum and balance and position, all things that get lost in the way to what we have nowadays. Every single player in PES18 shoots the exact same way (rocket shots), regardless of what foot they strike the ball with. It's like shooting stats have nearly zero impact.

This was in danger of proving to be the most infuriating topics of debate I have had with any of these games over the years. Then you said it. "I"

So first of all you say I don't get it because it is all about playstyles, which is arguably a point of praise for the game because it does allow a variety of playstyles. Then you say "If I" and go on to talk about how you like smacking the ball from distance ten times a match, averaging a smack at goal from distance every 60 seconds. You literally said: "but if I go for distance shots I will see many of them"

The game isn't the problem you are having. You are in that you actually playing this game and belting shots from range frequently and going "I see a lot of these"...

Of course you are! You are the one choosing to do it!

I think you should go have a wee look over the video evidence you used and watch it over in its entirety. That was just two dudes trying to play some football, not exchange shots from distance, apart from one.

I asked a few posts if you were sure you weren't the one doing it. It turns out you are.

Regards your question: I didn't say they were fine, I said that you saying it is all rocket shots which are easy to do and that shooting in general is not impacted by stats is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[The Power]

The game isn't the problem you are having. You are in that you actually playing this game and belting shots from range frequently and going "I see a lot of these"...
Of course you are! You are the one choosing to do it!

This is how your argumentation goes: In case you don't use wide range shots or shots with ~50-70% bar you will not see many rockets shots. In other way: If you avoid the unrealistic part which the game allows me to do it will be realistic.
In first place konami should downgrade the shot speed and precise to force me to play realistic. This is how it should be done and not the other way.

Its the same with pingpong passing. "Don't use it and try to play realistic so the problem is gone"... even its still in the game.

 

[PES94]

I think this is the game where PES 2017 should have been. Awesome work by them, and I like what I'm hearing about the final build. Can't wait for the demo, currently in the beta the lag ruins it sometimes.

 

[curdstar]

This is how your argumentation goes: In case you don't use wide range shots or shots with ~50-70% bar you will not see many rockets shots. In other way: If you avoid the unrealistic part which the game allows me to do it will be realistic.
In first place konami should downgrade the shot speed and precise to force me to play realistic. This is how it should be done and not the other way.

Its the same with pingpong passing. "Don't use it and try to play realistic so the problem is gone"... even its still in the game.

This is utterly bewildering. So you are complaining that when you go to hit a powerful shot it is powerful?

I'm done with this conversation as you have already admitted to thumping as many long range shots as you can, but you think that it is Konami's fault you are doing that. I'd much rather engage with someone who just wants to play football, not long shots. Funny thing is, you seem to be in a minority in my experience, if the charge is that everybody is playing that way. Your own video you used to try illustrate your point is completely and utterly an example of the opposite of what you are saying the game is doing when really it is you and only you doing it, as I have seen no evidence whatsoever that backs up your 9/10 rocket shots claim, be that in videos or my own playing experience against all kinds of opponents using all kinds of set-ups, hitting all kinds of shots. Not one single piece of evidence that backs up your claim.

The best you have come up with is when you said, essentially, that if you power a shot right up and from distance the players kick it hard towards the general vicinity of the goal. No shit, Sherlock. Well observed.

 

[Northzzz]

This is utterly bewildering. So you are complaining that when you go to hit a powerful shot it is powerful?

He's complaining that too many long shots from distance are powerful rocket shots with no curve or dip that always end up going very close to the target regardless of who takes the shot. It's a valid criticism, I think. Not everybody should be able to strike it from range like Paul Scholes in his prime.

 

[The Power]

This is utterly bewildering. So you are complaining that when you go to hit a powerful shot it is powerful?

No its to often unrealistic powerful and IMO to precise. Even with players who are avarage on shooting and using wrong foot...........and its not only the wide range shots

 

[rammeal]

No its to often unrealistic powerful and IMO to precise. Even with players who are avarage on shooting and using wrong foot...........and its not only the wide range shots

I kinda understand the argument you are trying to make but it is a little pointless IMO due to the two teams that are present in this beta. Let's just wait until a more final version of the game is released with access to maybe less quality rated players. Also it has been stated multiple times the shooting will be more varied in the final version.

 

[vxcmplx]

I kinda understand the argument you are trying to make but it is a little pointless IMO due to the two teams that are present in this beta. Let's just wait until a more final version of the game is released with access to maybe less quality rated players. Also it has been stated multiple times the shooting will be more varied in the final version.

If anyone wants to try, this can be test this out now. Putting your weakest shot power player (even if out of position) in the midfield and have him take some shots

 

[Topaz]

Yeah seems like shot power stats makes no difference.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

If anyone wants to try, this can be test this out now. Putting your weakest shot power player (even if out of position) in the midfield and have him take some shots

on what shot type? basic, advanced, manual

 

[talucchesi]

2nd: what the hell is that fucking feint thing?? I am sprinting and the defender is running along my side coming closer.
I'm approaching the sideline but I know I'm going to pull back and pass to another player. What happens? The moment I release R1 and pull back the stick, my player is not stopping and changing direction (I'm aware that players are heavier now but there been like 5 meters distance to the sideline....enough space), he is doing a feint move with his upper body part and runs over the damn sideline!!!

No no no, please stop this. This might be my favorite thing included in this years game. It's so natural and contextual and the game actually reads your left analogue stick so well. It makes controlling the midfield SOOO much better than I imagined from this years game. Especially with this years auto shielding which I was highly pessimistic about (I always want the player to have the choice rather than the game deciding for me) but they did it almost perfectly already.

Ive been wanting this in Fifa for years and I finally thought I was getting it with no touch dribbling but they implemented that about as badly as they couldve with players looking like their doing the hokey-pokey more than anything else.

I didnt even realize this was a new feature by watching other people videos I just thought people were gettin really good at using the skill moves lol.

I have had my player auto feint without my intention a few times and had players run out of bounds or give the ball away in key situations but I will take that any day of the freakin week. Sorry if this seems like an attack I just got discourage when I saw a good amount of people liked this post

 

[zeemeister]

Oh dear the usual suspects are at it again..

I have blazed a few shots over the bar on basic. Not everything is straight and true.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Just played a couple of games on the beta, it says 1-bar passing but feels more assisted. Enjoyed the game, felt very organic, fluid and more realistic with regards to space, movement and body physics.

Cracked some great strikes, witnessed some beautiful first touch improvised lay-offs. The freedom of movement feels the most natural I've seen to date and is complimented by the awareness of space.

Obviously very first impressions, but I really like and can clearly see what they are try to achieve here.

 

[stuartyd]

Select widecam and mess about with height, zoom and angle. Not got my settings handy at the moment but that is what I have done and I have found a look not too different at all from the pitchside cam I use for offline in PES2017.

In the beta!? Anytime I select a customised camera, as soon as I start the game again it goes back to the default view.
Does the custom cam work for you!?

 

[aussiepesfan]

In the beta!? Anytime I select a customised camera, as soon as I start the game again it goes back to the default view.
Does the custom cam work for you!?

same here. That's been bugging me the most as I like the long camera, but want to customise the angle and height. Looks like its working, as you can see I change on the paused screen, but then in game it reverts back. Anyone found a way around this???

 

[sando]

Idk how alot of you are struggling with lag. Over 50 or so matches I've had, not a single game had a SLIGHT amount of lag. I am in USA, 100mbps internet speed. Perhaps its your connection to blame ?

i have 200mbit up and 20mbit down and this is in the Netherlands quite common: i play against al lot of Dutch guys: zero zip lag, it plays like we are sitting on the couch on one console...

 

[Ameppe]

Yeah seems like shot power stats makes no difference.

This is absolutely true, same as it was in Pes 2017. In Pes 2017 and this beta when i make such hard shots with a player i check his stats and generally it's an 80. An 80 shooting power rated player shouldn't be able to fire such rockets.

When i see the ball hit adboards behing the goal and it bounces back 20 meters on the pitch i can't help but feel it's really unrealistic.

 

[stupidusername]

It's odd that people will defend the obvious issues with shooting.

Scoring goals it not satisfying and it needs a complete overhaul for 2019.

 

[vxcmplx]

on what shot type? basic, advanced, manual

I don't know I haven't even scored much inside the box, not ready to take shots from range yet lol. Just sayin, it's an easy test.

 

[romagnoli]

I know Curd isn't actually disagreeing that the shooting would be better with more trajectories or fluffed shots, more about the idea that you see these all the time - I know I've not been in a game with more than 3 or 4 long shots, usually by Pogba or Griezmann.

Generally speaking my feeling is that the onus shouldn't be on the player to act as if the game is realistic, the onus should be on the game to encourage realistic play. We choose to pick up the slack to cover for shortcomings, but that's our choice and also our way of acknowledging flaws in the game. We shouldn't have to act, to constantly enforce unspoken rules or stick to some code of conduct. As soon as you do that then you're permanently limiting yourself, preventing yourself from thinking as freely as you want, and you're not unleashing yourself to feel like you're actually giving it everything you've got.

If every player was an excellent dribbler then I wouldn't want to refuse to dribble with anyone unless IRL they are an excellent dribbler. I'd want them to be average or poor so that I can still try and use them and chuckle when it goes horribly wrong, or feel chuffed that I managed to get away with a surging run by my CB.

If every player could hit an inch perfect cross I don't want my game to involve me deciding whether or not I should go ahead and cross the ball in with Fellaini, knowing that I won't see a Fellaini-like ball hoofed into the middle that every now and then is actually pretty decent. I shouldn't have to decide that, well I've been in this position with Fellaini supporting out wide 10 times over the last 5 or 6 matches, so this time I'm allowed to cross the ball in rather than pass to somebody 'better'.

If I'm hitting a long shot with a defender, or a midfielder or a striker, I want to see a clean, powerful and accurate connection occasionally. But not nigh on every time. It shouldn't be on me to pretend the game is going to represent the chances of an effective shot realistically. Half the excitement of seeing a powerful long shot that looks like it's going to test the keeper is that, around 5-10 yards after it's left your boot, you can see it's a goodun, that THIS shot is interesting, that it's not one of the duffers you usually see when someone has a speculative go from range, that something awesome might be about to happen so get up out of your seat.

I wouldn't expect to have to drive a Nissan Micra with the pedal down 30% just so that a Skyline will be able to lap me in Gran Turismo. Similarly, I don't ever recall merely jogging back to goal with John Terry in PES 2017, just because I didn't want him to catch up with Aubameyang who's clean through with 50 yards to run into.

Now, I get that football is a lot more holistic than a racing sim, and that creating a balance where everything is 'realistic' and still interacts with each other to result in a perfectly balanced football game is nigh on impossible. So, there will be compromises, and we do have a general unspoken code amongst us good eggs, that we won't exploit OP crosses, that we won't press or slide tackle relentlessly because we can't get sent off, that we won't run up the pitch doing 6 or 7 rainbow flicks if it turns out defenders don't know how to handle them. But those are concessions we make to failings in the gameplay engine. We all agree the failings should be fixed, because then it means we can better enjoy crossing, or slide tackling, or a better balance between trickster and defender.

If I knew that most of my shots with Varane from 40 yards would go into orbit or skew wide towards the corner flag, then I'd look at that youtube vid and think of it as one of those amazing real life moments where a defender catches a ball supersweetly and has everyone in the stadium utterly shocked. As it is, I won't ever get to experience those moments in PES because I have to tell myself not to shoot with Varane from distance so I get a more realistic experience.

 

[Lami]

Just played a couple of games on the beta, it says 1-bar passing but feels more assisted. Enjoyed the game, felt very organic, fluid and more realistic with regards to space, movement and body physics.

Cracked some great strikes, witnessed some beautiful first touch improvised lay-offs. The freedom of movement feels the most natural I've seen to date and is complimented by the awareness of space.

Obviously very first impressions, but I really like and can clearly see what they are try to achieve here.

Where the actual fuck have you been?

 

[stupidusername]

If I knew that most of my shots with Varane from 40 yards would go into orbit or skew wide towards the corner flag, then I'd look at that youtube vid and think of it as one of those amazing real life moments where a defender catches a ball supersweetly and has everyone in the stadium utterly shocked. As it is, I won't ever get to experience those moments in PES because I have to tell myself not to shoot with Varane from distance so I get a more realistic experience.

Best example in recent memory is Matic FA cup semi-final goal. What made the goal even more amazing was how unexpected it was. If you were a chelsea fan you probably ran around screaming

I really think the developers must know this and it's been worked on since E3 I've seen some people say. More variation and unpredictability could make this one of the greats, but realistically I think it needs an overhaul similar to what they did with animation system this year

 

[tobi]

I play 4-3-3 with France and for me the automatic shielding works great with Rabiot, Kante is Kante but I'm still adjusting to Pogba, I've been brushed aside by Neymar and Coutinho too easily.

I scored one lovely goal yesterday, a rasping shot by Payet that made me scream. I haven't reacted like that to a goal I scored in PES for some time, I'll post it later.

I'm going to stick with manual shooting.

I like the defending, it's suits my preference of defending space and forcing the opposition to do something they don't want to do. It's nice watching my opponent get frustrated because their usual style of play isn't working.

I miss the R2 step over greatly.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Just what i dont get that everyone sees that there was no difference between player speed amongst players in 2017 but many people STILL state that shooting is varied and not OP...beyond me. Also Asim and Adam confirmed it was reported by many who played 2018.

So..

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

This is absolutely true, same as it was in Pes 2017. In Pes 2017 and this beta when i make such hard shots with a player i check his stats and generally it's an 80. An 80 shooting power rated player shouldn't be able to fire such rockets.

When i see the ball hit adboards behing the goal and it bounces back 20 meters on the pitch i can't help but feel it's really unrealistic.

yes, i think the problem is player abilities, all players ability numbers are to close (watering down individuality) all around 80. Player crossing abilities are again to close.....Also 80 shooting power is like 90. all players should be -10 in shooting power. Keepers clearing to low and range to high.
We should open a thread for 2018 on this very subject. This could improve player individuality, keepers, shooting / passing / crossing / heading.

Again this is were i think Konami does a bad job bringing out player individuality.

 

[curdstar]

I'm still waiting on my 30 rocket shot goals scored by defenders in no more than 100 matches. C'mon lads, I mean you all say it is obvious and happens every single time, so everybody is surely doing it. Where are they all?

Rom is right when he suggests I am not saying that there couldn't be more variety in trajectory and alike, and do also generally agree with the point he makes that players shouldn't restrict themselves if there is a known issue.

However, and I will keep coming back to it for those who are insistent that this is a massive problem, "STUPID KONAMI" etc.: Where are my 30 rocket shot goals scored by defenders in no more than 100 matches?

You do know that if you sent on to officialpes a match where you repeatedly struck the ball from 40 yards with Raphael Varane, and he scores absolutely zero goals, but the strike goes over (just) , wide (just) or the keeper saves it you would be asked one question:

Why are you doing that?

That would be a completely legitimate question to ask as ultimately the player needs to take some ownership as to how they wish to play the game. How long do you think Raphael Varane would last in a real match if every time he was 40 yards out he blasted the ball goalwards? What do you think his manager on the touchline would ask? I'll tell you:

Why are you doing that?

Now, people will say "Yeah, but Raphael Varane wouldn't be as accurate as he is in PES2018 when he does it"

It doesn't matter. If the ball goes 1 yard wide or 15 yards wide he still missed.

Here is another question(s): have you ever seen Raphael Varane take 10 strikes at goal from 40 yards in a single match? Why do you think you haven't seen that?

Let's suspend reality for a moment and Raphael Varane, in fact lets say the entire French backline, are playing a real fixture and repeatedly they whack the ball hard and true from 40 yards out and every shot, although hit hard, goes just over, whiskers wide, or the keeper saves it. The shots look pretty, but ZERO goals. What do you think his manager will be asking him? I'll tell you:

Why are you doing that? STOP DOING THAT!

I've never seen Raphael Varane hit ten shots from 40 yards at goal in a real match, just like I have NEVER, in all the god knows how many matches I have played this beta, either felt compelled to thunder 10 shots from 40 yards with Raphael Varane in a single match, or witnessed my opponent repeatedly smack shots from 40 yards out with Raphael Varane.

I guess if I do witness an opponent repeatedly belt 40 yard strikes at goal with Raphael Varane I can say to myself: "Ah, I'm up against one of the lads from evo-web. One of THE HARDCORE. REAL SIM PLAYERZ and all that. Time for a lesson in REALISM"

Again, it isn't that I think there is variety in shooting like we have never seen before in this beta. I'm just saying that to call this a massive gamebreaking problem is complete and utter bullshit, until I see 30 rocket shot goals by defenders from distance in no more than 100 matches. Even that would just lead to further questions.

Oh, and Rom. This isn't me replying to your post; more the stuff that has been said elsewhere in the thread.

 

[Bravez]

I just had (another) game where someone just out the controller down when they started losing, so I took the time to test the shooting...

Main take away is it's consistently too powerful. I didn't score any even with no pressure and a free shot, not may went on target either. The problem is no matter the angle or the pressure, theyre rockets.

It means there's no satisfaction in catching one clean or working the space to make sure you get a good strike. If they can fix that itll be v good.

 

[James Beaver]

Played the beta.

Pros.

• Good tempo.
  
• Very little lag.
  
• Didn't notice any catchup.
  

Cons.

• Too much space. These were manual matches, so I would think it's much, much worse on assisted. There is always space to attack. On manual it's inherently challenging, but it doesn't feel like any tactics is needed. This may sound bad, but it's actually promising for an offline player like me: I feel they have to fix defensive spacing eventually online as well.
  
• Stealing the ball from behind -bug. I was completely run over in one match in the first half because I had no idea of this feature.
  

This was my first time ever playing online. Most matches were very nice. The one where the guy was using the stealing bug several times felt gamey.