PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

DDP said:
Hey Guys,

I have been to GamesCom yesterday and had the opportunity to play PES for like 90 Minutes. I am still playing PES6 from time to time and enjoyed PES 2011 and 2012 when it was released. After that I pretty much stopped playing football games, because FIFA`s controls are so annoying and PES didn`t interest me as much after the original MLO (I loved that mode) got dropped.

There is only one major concern:

You get booked a yellow card for clean sliding tackles. I think that the fouls are called, because you hit the player afterwards, but that doesn`t make sense. It`s really annoying, especially if you stop an attack in the box with a clean tackle.

Little concern:

The animations don`t seem to fluent at all times, the "skating" problem is still there and the ballphysics seem to have regressed since PES6, but maybe I am taking PES6 as the benchmark and this is actually an improvement?! Some own-goals were really dump and ball physics implied that the defenders are basically 190cm high brick walls. The CPU tends to do ridiculous stuff in their own box, like performing a heel pass with the keeper to outplay an attacker.

Good:

The presentation, the player faces and the look of the pitch during the game (Nou Camp) looks amazing. I like the colours that PES uses way more than the ones Fifa uses. Defending came easy to me and I played some Games that ended 0-0. It`s fun to play the game with good teams like France or Germany, the only team in the demo that made it to easy to pass through midfield was Barca. With other teams, you have to really think about what you are doing in midfield and you cannot just do the same thing over and over (vs human opponent). Speed seems to be less powerful than in past Games. Coman/Griezman are fast, but Messi is way way better in this game. Crossings from a deep position to the wingers like Pirlo does it is fun, but maybe it`s a bit to easy on semi-assisted passing.

Great:

I played a couple of matches vs other visitors of GamesCom and it was just fun. We had a great time playing pes and all the matches were fairly even. I will buy this one for sure and hope that the online modes are cool. I would love to have something like the "original" MLO, where I slowly collect my team.

Best Regards,

DDP
Click to expand...

thanks

one thing I will say about the slide tackling concern is that although i don't doubt you are 100% correct about referees overreacting to them is that in real life at the top level at least, how many slide tackles do you see? the ones that you do HAVE to be completely clean, any follow through or high foot and you're booked or off.

Given that online in PES2016 slide tackles were completely abused by people knowing that they would rarely be punished for them, I would rather see annoying completely over zealous referees giving out cards for any touch with a slide tackle!

what this does do however is highlight the problem with a lack in tackling variation. if we're going to go down the more realistic route of not using slide tackling so often then we need more options for other tackles. we need to be able to push and pull, have an option for a deliberate professional foul and most importantly add contextual animations to the double X standing tackle
 
robbieryan said:
thanks

one thing I will say about the slide tackling concern is that although i don't doubt you are 100% correct about referees overreacting to them is that in real life at the top level at least, how many slide tackles do you see? the ones that you do HAVE to be completely clean, any follow through or high foot and you're booked or off.

Given that online in PES2016 slide tackles were completely abused by people knowing that they would rarely be punished for them, I would rather see annoying completely over zealous referees giving out cards for any touch with a slide tackle!

what this does do however is highlight the problem with a lack in tackling variation. if we're going to go down the more realistic route of not using slide tackling so often then we need more options for other tackles. we need to be able to push and pull, have an option for a deliberate professional foul and most importantly add contextual animations to the double X standing tackle
Click to expand...

I actually think that the options for other tackles than sliding tacklings are quite well done. The sliding tackle is not super strong in this one and an overusage of that measure seems rather counterproductive, as a failed sliding tackle will open up space in the defence. Playing conservative defence without pressuring the ball too much worked for me yesterday.

The sliding tackles were super clean. I agree with your considerations in regard to balancing, but this is way too obvious. They seem to have problems with the refereeing and that needs to be adressed ASAP, because it`s something that is way too obviously wrong. It`s not an in-Game-glitch, it`s a very unaccurate way of translating real life rules to the gaming world. People will get annoyed by this a lot, because it`s counter intuitive and they are correct about that.
 
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aliheidari2520 said:
I can feel you exactly considering I experienced this feel by pes 2015 on PS4 :))

if you are expert with in game editing, the better ...
but if you aren't, let me know if you want help with anything :))
---a
because I heavily respect your tolerance with pes&xbox1 mixture :WORSHIP: :APPLAUD: :LOL:
Click to expand...
I appriciate that,thank you
Love my xb1,for other reasons than PES 17.
So it's not a deal breaker,but would love import possibility.
Guess I edit manual again for 17
 
DDP said:
I actually think that the options for other tackles than sliding tacklings are quite well done. The sliding tackle is not super strong in this one and an overusage of that measure seems rather counterproductive, as a failed sliding tackle will open up space in the defence. Playing conservative defence without pressuring the ball too much worked for me yesterday.

The sliding tackles were super clean. I agree with your considerations in regard to balancing, but this is way too obvious. They seem to have problems with the refereeing and that needs to be adressed ASAP, because it`s something that is way too obviously wrong. It`s not an in-Game-glitch, it`s a very unaccurate way of translating real life rules to the gaming world. People will get annoyed by this a lot, because it`s counter intuitive and they are correct about that.
Click to expand...

it's good to hear that the slide tackle is not too strong! and fair enough, you've played the game and i trust your opinion, just offering a devils advocate based on PES2016! I hope they fix it in that case!
 
aliheidari2520 said:
I can feel you exactly considering I experienced this feel by pes 2015 on PS4 :))

if you are expert with in game editing, the better ...
but if you aren't, let me know if you want help with anything :))
---
because I heavily respect your tolerance with pes&xbox1 mixture :WORSHIP: :APPLAUD: :LOL:
Click to expand...

Sounds you are a nice guy, offering your help :)
Does that mean that you know how to fully edit kits and badgets etc. on the Xbox 1?
I also have an Xbox 1 and I was considering to go for the PC-version, because that offers more possillities to get the edits right.
But if you know a way to get the Xbox 1 edited, I hope you can help me out! Then I can use the Xbox 1 with edited kits etc. ... but I might misunderstood you :TTTH:
 
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Han said:
Sounds you are a nice guy, offering your help :)
Does that mean that you know how to fully edit kits and badgets etc. on the Xbox 1?
I also have an Xbox 1 and I was considering to go for the PC-version, because that offers more possillities to get the edits right.
But if you know a way to get the Xbox 1 edited, I hope you can help me out! Then I can use the Xbox 1 with edited kits etc. ... but I might misunderstood you :TTTH:
Click to expand...

I think he meant in-game editing. He is an ingame face editor, check out his work are fantastic.
 
With regards to the sliding/slide tackles, if say I try to block a shot with a slide... im no where near the attacker as such, but as I block the shot, his momentum then runs into me and he falls over. Will that be punished?

It used to be, or at least some times, but it should never have been. But is that back in the game? By the sounds of it, that could be an issue if the refs are over zealous on anyone hitting the floor.
 
mehuk said:
With regards to the sliding/slide tackles, if say I try to block a shot with a slide... im no where near the attacker as such, but as I block the shot, his momentum then runs into me and he falls over. Will that be punished?



It used to be, or at least some times, but it should never have been. But is that back in the game? By the sounds of it, that could be an issue if the refs are over zealous on anyone hitting the floor.
Click to expand...



The issue is exactly like that. Blocking a shot with a tackle and the attacking player falls over the defending player afterwards may leads to a foul call and a yellow card.

It unfortunately happend more than once in every 7 minute game that I played.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
 
DDP said:
The issue is exactly like that. Blocking a shot with a tackle and the attacking player falls over the defending player afterwards may leads to a foul call and a yellow card.

It unfortunately happend more than once in every 7 minute game that I played.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I recall this same issue with a previous PES but can't remember which.

I don't know what's with the PES team and refs.
 
robbieryan said:
thanks

one thing I will say about the slide tackling concern is that although i don't doubt you are 100% correct about referees overreacting to them is that in real life at the top level at least, how many slide tackles do you see? the ones that you do HAVE to be completely clean, any follow through or high foot and you're booked or off.

Given that online in PES2016 slide tackles were completely abused by people knowing that they would rarely be punished for them, I would rather see annoying completely over zealous referees giving out cards for any touch with a slide tackle!

what this does do however is highlight the problem with a lack in tackling variation. if we're going to go down the more realistic route of not using slide tackling so often then we need more options for other tackles. we need to be able to push and pull, have an option for a deliberate professional foul and most importantly add contextual animations to the double X standing tackle
Click to expand...


It's very true about the lack of defending options. In PES 14, there was a command to push and pull through the use of R stick. It was something like...hold R stick in direction to pull. Flick R stick in direction to nudge. Double flick R stick in direction to barge. That was fun while it lasted. There isn't nearly as much micro decisions available in the earlier or later games.

Overall, there's a severe lack of defending tools. All the tools they've given us over the years in defense, were flattened.

For tackles, we only have XX and O. Then we have [] and X for pressure.

[] and X are auto-centering tools that centers your player towards the ball automatically. It's kinda really strange to use have this in the game, as real defending is mostly about judging and reading the situation, and trying to meet/intercept the ball in the NEXT LOCATION, whether you're dealing with a dribbler, or someone about to pass. But all these tools we are provided with, only encourage you to just go directly to the ball's CURRENT LOCATION, always. A big part of real defending is reading the situation, and then position yourself correctly, and then intercepting the ball as the final move.

That's why I just use super cancel for defending, I can feel it's more about my decisions and my inputs. Example video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZs4F05DnhE

The tackles are just finishing moves. Most of the time I don't even need to tackle. The objective is just to touch the ball, and that in itself is an interception. But I believe just knowing where the ball is, and where the ball will be next, should involve our own decisions. But X and [] works opposite to this concept, to me that's just auto-centering, and removes too much of the variation of defending, and also the decision making that is required in defending.

At the very least, player stats should reflect how effective this auto-centering should occur. Not all players should have the same willingness and effectiveness to hunt down the ball, only the best should be relentless, and precise. This is missing from the game in all iterations throughout the years.

Maybe it's as I've seen mentioned here, it's all to keep up the pace of the game. They don't want us playing attack/defense with nuanced details.
 
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vxcmplx said:
It's very true about the lack of defending options. In PES 14, there was a command to push and pull through the use of R stick. It was something like...hold R stick in direction to pull. Flick R stick in direction to nudge. Double flick R stick in direction to barge. That was fun while it lasted. There isn't nearly as much micro decisions available in the earlier or later games.

Overall, there's a severe lack of defending tools. All the tools they've given us over the years in defense, were flattened.

For tackles, we only have XX and O. Then we have [] and X for pressure.

[] and X are auto-centering tools that centers your player towards the ball automatically. It's kinda really strange to use have this in the game, as real defending is mostly about judging and reading the situation, and trying to meet/intercept the ball in the NEXT LOCATION, whether you're dealing with a dribbler, or someone about to pass. But all these tools we are provided with, only encourage you to just go directly to the ball's CURRENT LOCATION, always. A big part of real defending is reading the situation, and then position yourself correctly, and then intercepting the ball as the final move.

That's why I just use super cancel for defending, I can feel it's more about my decisions and my inputs. Example video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZs4F05DnhE

The tackles are just finishing moves. Most of the time I don't even need to tackle. The objective is just to touch the ball, and that in itself is an interception. But I believe just knowing where the ball is, and where the ball will be next, should involve our own decisions. But X and [] works opposite to this concept, to me that's just auto-centering, and removes too much of the variation of defending, and also the decision making that is required in defending.

At the very least, player stats should reflect how effective this auto-centering should occur. Not all players should have the same willingness and effectiveness to hunt down the ball, only the best should be relentless, and precise. This is missing from the game in all iterations throughout the years.

Maybe as I've seen mentioned here, it's all to keep up the pace of the game. They don't want us playing attack/defense with nuanced details.
Click to expand...

Really good post..I never use the auto centering and I prefer conservative pressure,this way I'm able too judge and intercept with just stick control and player positioning..

Always felt relevant when pes was more rigid and you didn't have as much control or feel as you do now with the stick.

I know what you mean though,and you see it in both games ie people constantly pressing the ball carrier,because there given this simple easy tool that requires no real skill or judgement.

You should only need a tackle button,stick control and I dont use it or feel any disadvantage if I don't.

I think it also boils down to the mentality of people that play footie games now..they just want the ball,to be able to just pass forward or just run with the ball and score lots of pretty goals.

In many ways pes since 16 and I hope pes17 more so will reward those better that try to play footie..it's something pes does better now.
 
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DDP said:
The issue is exactly like that. Blocking a shot with a tackle and the attacking player falls over the defending player afterwards may leads to a foul call and a yellow card.

It unfortunately happend more than once in every 7 minute game that I played.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That could be a big issue then. I love the last ditch defending, so being able to chuck bodies in front of shots was fun... it was almost a necessity with the low corner AI shots last year, so if thats not fixed and we have this type of reffing, then it could be a problem.
 
PES 16 had terrible referees. Opponent fauled me - no faul, no yellow. When I fauled in the same way as opponent - faul, sometimes yellow, sometimes not. It wasn't very fair. But if in PES 17 I will make a sliding tackle/block the shot and it will somehow touch the opponent or he will run at me and fall and referee whistle a faul, I think it's going to be a huge problem. Also I play PES 16 for few months and I think I've got like 2 penalties, when I should get much more. This should be fixed. I think refeeres in PES 17 are going to be very sensitive about everything.
 
Han said:
Sounds you are a nice guy, offering your help :)
Does that mean that you know how to fully edit kits and badgets etc. on the Xbox 1?
I also have an Xbox 1 and I was considering to go for the PC-version, because that offers more possillities to get the edits right.
But if you know a way to get the Xbox 1 edited, I hope you can help me out! Then I can use the Xbox 1 with edited kits etc. ... but I might misunderstood you :TTTH:
Click to expand...

I mean in game editing mate :))
you can change kits with acceptable accuracy by "in game" editor.
unfortunately not sponsors and logos, but you can make kits(almost similar to real life from gameplay camera)
and about created faces, ps4 and xbox1 are same, only pc has an advantage to get high quality created face by out game tools :))

Elja said:
I think he meant in-game editing. He is an ingame face editor, check out his work are fantastic.
Click to expand...

thanks mate :SMUG:
 
blacksam22 said:
PES 16 had terrible referees. Opponent fauled me - no faul, no yellow. When I fauled in the same way as opponent - faul, sometimes yellow, sometimes not. It wasn't very fair. But if in PES 17 I will make a sliding tackle/block the shot and it will somehow touch the opponent or he will run at me and fall and referee whistle a faul, I think it's going to be a huge problem. Also I play PES 16 for few months and I think I've got like 2 penalties, when I should get much more. This should be fixed. I think refeeres in PES 17 are going to be very sensitive about everything.
Click to expand...



I think this issue has to be addressed by konami, but it's the only major issue that I found and it should be fixable in a couple of days or with a patch. The other issue that I had, were own goals, that seemed like they tried to hard to live up to the "in pes everything is unpredictable"-mantra, as the ball was super fast after a couple of deflections and the CPU controlled defenders on my team just didn't react well to the situation.

Everything else seemed fine and all the players I played with agreed that the game is looking very promising. I think pes will be good this year, if they keep the slow gameplay and give the advantage to thinking players instead of to the ones with the fastest players .. From what I saw, I would say that the actual technical-attributes mattered and the real life strengths/styles of players were quite well translated into a video game.




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DDP said:
I think this issue has to be addressed by konami, but it's the only major issue that I found and it should be fixable in a couple of days or with a patch.
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You know this is Konami we're talking about, right? We're waiting until November for half the content they're advertising now...
 
maremas_ said:
SC Corinthians player plays on full manual controls.
https://youtu.be/kMJPyfFaJl8
Click to expand...

Lots of pluses in this one..player reaction,swift cursor speed and a ref that punishes pressure abuse,and badly timed challenges..lots of free kicks also.

Like the slower pace and I can see me having a field day with some of the passing options I can see available.

Looks like such a step up interns of gameplay,ai and visuals..
 
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Banksy said:
Lots of pluses in this one..player reaction,swift cursor speed and a ref that punishes pressure abuse,and badly timed challenges..lots of free kicks also.

Like the slower pace and I can see me having a field day with some of the passing options I can see available.

Looks like such a step up interns of gameplay,ai and visuals..
Click to expand...

At 0:55 Corinthians player doesn't manage to properly control the ball and lets it slide out. That is realistic and never before seen in Pes. These kind of mistakes are definitely stats influenced,i have never seen Barcelona players control the ball so bad in all those previous Pes 2017 videos.
 
Ameppe said:
At 0:55 Corinthians player doesn't manage to properly control the ball and lets it slide out. That is realistic and never before seen in Pes. These kind of mistakes are definitely stats influenced,i have never seen Barcelona players control the ball so bad in all those previous Pes 2017 videos.
Click to expand...


Yeah I was waiting to see that, hopefully we see that a lot with the lesser teams will take individuality up a level.
 
Diecii said:
stupid useless rule change by EUFA/FIFA or whomever had the bright idea... how does that change anything? LOL Hell have 3 ppl kick it off or have a drop ball ad mid field bfd
Click to expand...

why is this stupid?!
passing it backwards to get rid of opponent players that rush in at kick off seems more appropiate to me! dont forget the times where opponent players entered the center circle too early (rushing) and the ref had to redo the kick off again!

but again, i could be wrong. whats the positive point about the old system against the new one?
 
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