klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Yes, just like Arsene Wenger if he fails to win the title this year, no more excuses left now. PES 2017 Will define the future of PES.
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PES 2016 News & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter zeemeister
- Start date
Yes, just like Arsene Wenger if he fails to win the title this year, no more excuses left now. PES 2017 Will define the future of PES.
I agree with you Klash and Jimi.
PES 2017 is going to define the direction of PES. If it's an extension of the arcade-fest PES 2016 with A.I. still being the main issue then I'm done with it. I'll stick to playing older games as well as the occasional FIFA online with friends when I need to get my footy fix in.
I'm not dealing with this bullshit any longer
PES 2017 is going to define the direction of PES. If it's an extension of the arcade-fest PES 2016 with A.I. still being the main issue then I'm done with it. I'll stick to playing older games as well as the occasional FIFA online with friends when I need to get my footy fix in.
I'm not dealing with this bullshit any longer
Good man, B-Man. No one should with any type of BS.
'WE ARE LOOKING FOR LOCAL FOOTBALL EXPERTS' to pay them £25/week. What ******* experts get paid that low? They can stuff it up their rears.
pretty much sums it up why formations, stats and all the rest are so fakt.
Expert work for peanuts. I hope they've learnt their lesson but I doubt it.
robbieryan
I dream of occasional fanzine mentions
It's pretty bad. This is simply taking advantage of the community, giving out a job that was previously done by a paid full-time employee to a fan of the series for pittance.
As what's been said above this is the last chance, one more arcade game and i'm done. it would a lot easier to accept and take already if it wasn't for the fact hat people at Konami seem to band the game as some sort of expert game that you have to master, what nonsense.
As what's been said above this is the last chance, one more arcade game and i'm done. it would a lot easier to accept and take already if it wasn't for the fact hat people at Konami seem to band the game as some sort of expert game that you have to master, what nonsense.
- Staff
- #8,618
I'm relieved to see that the overall opinion is shifting towards "this game needs to improve massively next time around" - it's the only way they'll ever gear the game towards us again, and not the kids (I firmly believe they're dumbing down to attract the Ultimate Team crowd - particularly the paying ones, who have an average age of about 12).
As for the data reviewer stuff (£25p/w) - do EA pay their FIFA researchers nowadays? Genuine question.
If I was a Konami higher-up I'd probably be more interested in paying Sports Interactive to use their database than employ a load of randoms (and I believe that almost happened many years ago).
But I think the glory days of them trying to make the highest quality product have gone. I truly think it's all about lowest-cost, highest-return now (and if it's always been that way, well, it didn't feel like it, back in the day).
When you see the amount of passion that indie devs have in the current climate, for example, it's a real kick in the balls to feel like one of your most-loved game series' only exists now to hoover up money in preparation for the company's inevitable death.
As for the data reviewer stuff (£25p/w) - do EA pay their FIFA researchers nowadays? Genuine question.
If I was a Konami higher-up I'd probably be more interested in paying Sports Interactive to use their database than employ a load of randoms (and I believe that almost happened many years ago).
But I think the glory days of them trying to make the highest quality product have gone. I truly think it's all about lowest-cost, highest-return now (and if it's always been that way, well, it didn't feel like it, back in the day).
When you see the amount of passion that indie devs have in the current climate, for example, it's a real kick in the balls to feel like one of your most-loved game series' only exists now to hoover up money in preparation for the company's inevitable death.
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robbieryan
I dream of occasional fanzine mentions
Just had a look at Konamis latest financials for Q3 2015-16 they are pretty damn healthy and revised up their forecast for EoY... £25p/w for a editing job wont touch the sides. Tight as fuck.
- Staff
- #8,620
I've read that the majority is from MGS and mobile, though, isn't it? Both of which now have issues (particularly mobile, they're apps that people download and enjoy for a couple of months and then don't bother with ever again)?
Could be wrong but the impression I get from most news sites is that they're struggling, and the F2P versions of PES sort of tally with that assessment.
Also, given how little of that profit is going to be PC/console PES-driven in comparison, I doubt any significant investment in PES will happen.
Knowing a little bit about the goings-on at the boardroom level of some publishers, I'd imagine Konami are thinking "we get 9/10 in most of the reviews worldwide and the game still sells like shit, there's nothing we can do with this franchise to make it sell in Europe like it used to any more, so we'll just have to focus on the markets where it does sell, buy up all the Asian and South American licenses we can, put out a cheap-to-make game, and release a free version elsewhere to bleed as many kids dry of their pocket money as we can".
When Adam was asked about the popularity of PES in that BBC show, he mentioned "other markets" (Asia and South America specifically) a few times. Almost as if to say "it doesn't really matter if nobody in this room buys PES to me". Which, of course, they didn't, judging by the one-and-a-half hands that went up (thanks P34SEMM for the confirmation
)...That sort of "fuck you, markets we don't do well in" also tallies with how little they give a shit about option files and editors - i.e. "we don't have your country's domestic league's license, so you're not going to buy our game, so we don't care about what it takes to make you happy" (though short-sighted, as it's a good way to provide a boost in sales, I reckon - a good option file is almost as good as a license, but admittedly, only AFTER you've bought the game).
They're buying up whatever licenses they can realistically afford and then focussing on those markets, because the licenses guarantee a certain amount of sales. In any country, if you can publish a game with that domestic league's biggest star on the cover, and next to it you've got FIFA with a random player from elsewhere - or even if they don't, even if FIFA has the same license and has a relevant player - you've still got a HUGELY improved chance of selling the game to Joe Public based on that alone.
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klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
to be honest if sports interactive and PES Team joined together, they would make one hell of a game.
We should start a campaign. Imagine what the football manager team could do with the fox engine, if they where shown how to make changes to it.
They should work together at the new Windsor office thing.
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- Staff
- #8,622
That's been my dream since the early days... I'll never see a game as good as that combination could be, I fear.
I'm up for starting a campaign, though I don't know if it would be any good!
I remember years ago (I'm talking some time between PES 1-6), there were a couple of magazines that ran articles about Konami talking to SI about using their data, but after that month, it was never spoken of again. I've mentioned it a few times on here (and on the SI forums), but it looks like they quickly decided against it.
My thinking with the FM database is that SI do actually license the data out (e.g. to Prozone - see Eurogamer), so it would be relatively easy to apply for. It would just be the cost.
But I get the feeling that paying for more accurate attributes isn't something Konami are going to do, when they can pay buttons and get something close (or not, judging on some of the lesser-known-players in the last few PESes).
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klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
They need to be looking at the potential profit that will be made from a game which combines the engine Konami have and the stats and real life management effects on players.
imagine all the companies who will be paying BOTH PES Team and FM for what they have created.
Sounds good, Btw Klash you were right the game is playing better since the patch. So 2017 is the last chance saloon.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
talking about Konami patch 1.05
game version is 1.0300
They really need to release another version. The game is truly worthless right now. I mean 1.03 at least wsa arcadey fun, and you could play it and enjoy the game for what it was. Its unplayable right now.
robbieryan
I dream of occasional fanzine mentions
I guess there is the hope/offchance/whiff of desperation that they could prepare a significant game update for when the 2016 Euros content comes out. Then again, I hate to think of how the resource split for 2016dlc and PES2017 will affect the quality of either game. We're either going to see a barely improved (upon initial release) game I. PES2017 or an embarrassingly minimal effort with the Euros content
- Staff
- #8,629
My view of that is that if there was any hope of them improving gameplay, we'd have seen a glimmer of it in the patches. They've read the reviews, and the reviews are what Joe Public read, and they all say it's the best football game of all-time. What people say after they've bought the game and find out they disagree, means nothing to them.
Thinking about it, if they've spent a lot on the Euro license (you'd imagine it's expensive, even with their current relationship with UEFA), and then barely anybody buys the DLC because there's nobody left who likes the game by that point, then... That could be a hell of a problem, financially.
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gerd
Retired Footballer
The Euro DLC will be for free Chris.
And about PES-SI games.
I've heard somebody from SI games about that (quite recently, i think it was in the Spurs podcast). The guy said that to their astonishment, Konami never bothered ti use their content...
If that is true, that us typically.
Just finished some question by Konami UK. The questions alone are proof of the fact that Konami doesn't have a clue about what lives in communities like this one.
I'm playing NBA2K 16 now and a litle bit of FIFA.
I prefer PES, but FIFA has less obvious flaws. I'm not very used to FIFA and not very good at it, that might also be the reason why i prefer PES.
I want a football game like NBA2K...
And about PES-SI games.
I've heard somebody from SI games about that (quite recently, i think it was in the Spurs podcast). The guy said that to their astonishment, Konami never bothered ti use their content...
If that is true, that us typically.
Just finished some question by Konami UK. The questions alone are proof of the fact that Konami doesn't have a clue about what lives in communities like this one.
I'm playing NBA2K 16 now and a litle bit of FIFA.
I prefer PES, but FIFA has less obvious flaws. I'm not very used to FIFA and not very good at it, that might also be the reason why i prefer PES.
I want a football game like NBA2K...
- Staff
- #8,631
Ah yeah, I forgot about that.
They'll surely try to monetise it through MyClub, though. They have theme days, so during the Euros I'd imagine they have "sales" on the best Euro players. Which is fair enough, but I wonder if they're expecting to make a ton of money through it...
You and me both...
I find myself playing FIFA now, on the Be A Pro camera, constantly flipping between different difficulties and sliders. I see new things now and again, and I've discovered that with a different camera angle, I can take players on in a way that I couldn't before. The FIFA guys get some bits of football so right, even though they get other bits so wrong.
I have to play a football game, or otherwise I feel like something is missing... But it's a sad state of affairs that I feel like I'm playing the only half-decent option, as opposed to the football game I dreamt of since ISS PE2 (15 years, three console generations, and we still have a pretty terrible Master League).
(I'm addicted to Football Manager too, but after getting Tranmere promoted, then relegated and then sacked, my motivation has dwindled...)
glenn0
Conference
This. I was enjoying the game recently, and one day last week, fired it up and it was a comparative mess.
Then I saw on the PS4's notifications dashboard that 1.05 had been automatically downloaded and installed. Usually Konami tweak the game for the better, or it feels exactly the same, but this time a dreadful patch has been delivered to us. My hope is that another update arrives with the January transfers in mid-March (a timeline which you would think they would be mindful of improving given the fiasco in the Autumn, but hey).
Man I'm loving this game more. More things need to be ironed out of course but playing on superstar + manual passing + -1 game speed is brilliant. Scored this (Nigeria vs Croatia) Having all the kits in is nice too.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9dIpI-JMis
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9dIpI-JMis
Great goal. .I've actually adapted to the new patch after slagging it off and I'm having some great matches it feels more competitive all round.
Wait, there's a new patch? lol PS4?
I actually don't understand this point. What's so different about kids nowadays that they'd get dumbed down games? I've been playing controller-shattering games since the 80's and never had an issue (well I did, hence the controller-shattering comment
, but I loved the challenge). Many of us went through those early years and enjoyed the challenge, so why's it different now? The real question is, is it the devs that have become lazy, or is it higher ups' policies that have geared more towards mass money milking leading to devs creating less challenging games and be scapegoats?No idea about Fifa. Just talking from my experience really. Weren't you a 'game changer' at one point? (I think that's what they're called)
That would make much more sense since they require expert work be done on their database.
That's my issue with them. They expect expert's work from random amateurs. That's truly ludicrous. You want an expert to do your work, go get an expert to do his expert magic and add his expert touches to the game that will evidently glow in the final product. And that requires money. You get what you pay for.
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vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Team
- Juventus
Everyone in Fm scouting aren't "expert level" that's a preconceveid idea. It's more like they're so many working in every country... But it's the same "hiring system" as PES wants to do, the fact that they've got more volunteers.
I know some guys working for Ligue 1 french, near as basic level of football kwnowledge who were scouts for football manager few years ago and the method of recruting/rating havent changed since.
And also, for players who's not very well known (youngsters for example) they gives 4 or 5 attributes, only what they know, no more.
The rest of attributes is generated with a program based on what they're sure about, like position (playing style), height/weight, potential and also the club's formation training center level of popularity etc.
Potential rating for many players is rated randomly, Football Manager is still a game after all.
EA sports does have a similar method for their sports games, but much more based on short-terms performance.
I think PES have something like that, but less accurate, at least since Windsor teams have taken commands... Before that i neither complained that much about stats.
They need to rework completely their "based program" for next-gen version to generate players more accurately with not that much information.
It's essential for second division leagues, and youngsters.
The current system is really weird, as well as attributes aren't very well explained.
I know some guys working for Ligue 1 french, near as basic level of football kwnowledge who were scouts for football manager few years ago and the method of recruting/rating havent changed since.
And also, for players who's not very well known (youngsters for example) they gives 4 or 5 attributes, only what they know, no more.
The rest of attributes is generated with a program based on what they're sure about, like position (playing style), height/weight, potential and also the club's formation training center level of popularity etc.
Potential rating for many players is rated randomly, Football Manager is still a game after all.
EA sports does have a similar method for their sports games, but much more based on short-terms performance.
I think PES have something like that, but less accurate, at least since Windsor teams have taken commands... Before that i neither complained that much about stats.
They need to rework completely their "based program" for next-gen version to generate players more accurately with not that much information.
It's essential for second division leagues, and youngsters.
The current system is really weird, as well as attributes aren't very well explained.
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gerd
Retired Footballer
I would gladly help Konami concerning teams and players in the Belgian league or our national team.
I would do it for free. I like to do this, why would i want to get paid for something that i really like if i already have a more than decent salary.
Not everything in life should be about money.
Is this naïve? Yes it is, as companies like Konami are very greedy (every company is, this has to do with work dynamics and how most individual people behave to profile themselves in a very positive but immoral way). Don't forget that behind "things" like companies there are people...
Haven't played the game for weeks, wil ltry it with the new patch one of these days...
About FM: i'm not buying it anymore on PC, it's too difficult the last years. I don't want to start on a PSG spending spree, but it is so difficult to buy one or two decent players.
I would do it for free. I like to do this, why would i want to get paid for something that i really like if i already have a more than decent salary.
Not everything in life should be about money.
Is this naïve? Yes it is, as companies like Konami are very greedy (every company is, this has to do with work dynamics and how most individual people behave to profile themselves in a very positive but immoral way). Don't forget that behind "things" like companies there are people...
Haven't played the game for weeks, wil ltry it with the new patch one of these days...
About FM: i'm not buying it anymore on PC, it's too difficult the last years. I don't want to start on a PSG spending spree, but it is so difficult to buy one or two decent players.
I'd never ever do that again, unless it was for charity. Never ever get exploited again for someone else who's greedy. I don't care who they are, whether it's a club I like or game I enjoy or whatever. Emotion drives us to make silly decisions, until one day we realize we're getting exploited by the ones we love; then that turns really ugly.