PES 2015 Discussion Thread (PS4/XB1)

Last night I had a little online session against a friend and I thought I'd be free from the script cheating, but some very outrageous things started happening.

I played some 4 matches with the feeling that the gameplay was rigged and there was some of that CPU momentum in my opponent's favour. I must sound crazy or paranoid here, and that's what I thought during the session, that maybe it was just an impression.
But it really sunk in when I subbed a tired Alexis Sanchez for Walcott, who is lightning fast as we all know.
But during a counter attack where I had lots of space to run into, I was puzzled to see how Nemanja Matic (he was using Chelsea) could keep up with Walcott, even though he had been playing the whole match. Then it hit home: the game's engine totally wasn't giving a fuck about attributes again, just like my single player experiences! A player who's rated above 95 for speed and fully rested against a much less agile, a much slower, bigger player who should be feeling some effects of fatigue after nearly 80 minutes of football.

I asked my friend what kind of arrow Matic was on and he said it was orange. We both had done the Live Update thing, but all my players were green. His guys were mostly green, with a few orange arrows.

Really weird, although this is beside the point. I felt the matches were totally rigged. I managed 1 win, 1 draw and 2 losses. But the fun wasn't there. Congrats KONAMI, for taking the fun out of multiplayer as well.

As for my single player ML, I decided to give it a long break (if not stop it altogether). Too many weird things happening there, like my Real Betis being able to beat Barcelona away (with goals by Castolis and Minandinho!) while the next round I get humbled 4-1 at home by a 2nd Division team who had 92% pass completion and like 70% possession. It felt like the game went like "ok, this is a Cup tie and I don't care who you're up against, you're gonna get fried". So there it is. We might as well have fake leagues and clubs, because what's the use of licensed teams if they can't be portrayed as their real counterparts? In the end, it feels like difficulty is random. You get a few "easy" runs and you're even able to beat a much stronger team, but eventually you end up facing a "Boss fight". That's what I call it now, when I face the likes of Granada or Cordoba and they kick the shit out of me - it's a boss fight, in a paralel reality where attributes are warped. It's sort of like when Neo met agents in the Matrix.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm thinking I've had enough of PES 2015. I guess I'll get back single player campaigns on some other games.
 
It surprises me the fact that no one here is posting anything about the Konami crisis, Kojima's quitting and the sad fact for us PES fans that Konami might not work as a gaming company for consoles and PC from now on

Will PES2016 even exist with all This terrible news coming our latelty ?

:CONFUSE:
 
DuduBR9 said:
It surprises me the fact that no one here is posting anything about the Konami crisis, Kojima's quitting and the sad fact for us PES fans that Konami might not work as a gaming company for consoles and PC from now on

Will PES2016 even exist with all This terrible news coming our latelty ?

:CONFUSE:
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Kojima did never work on PES, so it will not have any influence in making future PES versions. On the contrary, some personnel who worked under Kojima might transfer to PES ;)
 
We play online leagues and I don't find the game scripting that rentboy is referring to. Yes there are moments in the match where the ball seems to bounce in someone's favor but football is like that in real life
 
James Beaver said:
Here are some of my favourite reasons for why it's difficult to keep a clean sheet.

1. Momentum goals. The momentum goal comes in many forms such as nutmegs, reaction times, and heading capabilities.

5. Superstar 95% pass rate and long range skills. The CPU ping pong machine makes my head spin until they find an attacker within 25 meters of the goal. How could he possibly miss from there?

6. Context-independent shooting accuracy. I have three defenders pressuring an attacker outside the box. The attacker decides to get rid of them all at once by simply scoring with a gorgeous long-distance shot.
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Just have to say... To combat the momentum issue, I do not play on superstar. And I do not play ML, I only play exhibition matches against the CPU with the EMOTION feature turned OFF.

I have been playing PES 2015 this way from day one, and I have NEVER had a single game where the momentum nonsense kicked in during the match. Every match I play is fair and even and balanced, and there is never any sense of CPU cheats or boosts happening.

Playing this way, PES 2015 is without a doubt the best football gaming experience I've ever had. The past few years I had pretty much given up on sports games: PES, FIFA, MLB The Show, you name it... they all have this effing idiotic momentum/confidence CPU cheating/boosting. But finally I feel I've found a game that you can shut all that shit off! Really, I could not be happier with the game simply because of that alone.
 
I thought up until yesterday that online matches were fine and script-free. But that Matic incident was an eye opener for me.
On another match yesterday, although the general momentum was in favour of my opponent, there was one very clear occasion when I felt it benefited my team - Giroud, who's like 67 for speed, beat Azpilicueta to a loose ball in his defense that I though "Giroud's clearly not gonna make it", but he did. It's as if the game locked into something, pre-determined what was going to happen. Some may call it "on rails". I used to have this on PES 2011 all the time.

I don't know why I'm noticing this stuff now. Maybe it's new (came with the latest update) or, most likely, it's always been there. I just wasn't noticing because the cheat scripting we get on ML, single player on Super Star, is much more flagrant.

But I totally get what some of you guys feel when you say your players look "less responsive" than CPU's on ML, and such. I can sense very often this lack of responsiveness on my players especially on ML. When you play a long ball, the player you have chasing it seems to be pulled back at times, like there was a force field hampering his progress. At other times, the CPU players will simply reach cruise speed instantly from a stationary position - no respect for laws of physics, where it takes some meters before you'd reach top speed.

Another example is when the CPU strikers have the ball and beat a defender. There's no way you're going to catch up with him like the AI does. I try pressing them with X but I always end up hampered by an invisible force field around the CPU player. I even get that animation where the defender gives up, holding his hands up to avoid a foul or something. If I watch replays of those, 9 out of 10 times my players did so without even being within reach of the CPU striker.
 
angus said:
Just have to say... To combat the momentum issue, I do not play on superstar. And I do not play ML, I only play exhibition matches against the CPU with the EMOTION feature turned OFF.

I have been playing PES 2015 this way from day one, and I have NEVER had a single game where the momentum nonsense kicked in during the match. Every match I play is fair and even and balanced, and there is never any sense of CPU cheats or boosts happening.

Playing this way, PES 2015 is without a doubt the best football gaming experience I've ever had. The past few years I had pretty much given up on sports games: PES, FIFA, MLB The Show, you name it... they all have this effing idiotic momentum/confidence CPU cheating/boosting. But finally I feel I've found a game that you can shut all that shit off! Really, I could not be happier with the game simply because of that alone.
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What settings are you using at the moment?
 
I agree. Exhibition mode is the real shit. The game is AMAZING there. At least from where I'm sitting. Master League sucks. The gameplay is so different. Players are dumbed down there. I only play Exhibition CL matches and I love the game.
 
klashman69 said:
All those players where added in the winter transfers update and it's very clear nobody had time to implement their stats properly. There isn't enough people it seems currently working on the game in this regard.

I applied and didn't get in so they must have enough people from the new batch.

Your correct, very, very few players are rated correctly even the top players are just given silly god like stats like with Cristiano and Messi who are practically given 95 or 99 for everything.

If you play on the PC and use PES Galaxy i will release my EDIT.bin soon for everyone to use.
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hi my friend...
i m editing the stats with pes next generation (tool fm manager) i edited already LIGA NOS and PREMIERSHIP, i want to edit some more leagues, brazilian and argentinian but the .csv file of the program have only for european teams, do you know how to have the other leagues ? tks
 
iancurtis said:
hi my friend...
i m editing the stats with pes next generation (tool fm manager) i edited already LIGA NOS and PREMIERSHIP, i want to edit some more leagues, brazilian and argentinian but the .csv file of the program have only for european teams, do you know how to have the other leagues ? tks
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I'm not sure man. I haven't finished doing edits to La Liga, Ligue 1 & Bundersliga yet. but i'll release edit.bin when its done.
 
Review said:
What settings are you using at the moment?
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I'm all manual settings, don't know if the difficulty level matters, I believe it's the ability in exhibition games to shut the Emotion feature off that makes all the difference.
 
klashman69 said:
I'm not sure man. I haven't finished doing edits to La Liga, Ligue 1 & Bundersliga yet. but i'll release edit.bin when its done.
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klashman your edit bin will have your tactics too?
and one more thing: your edit bin will be for pesgalaxy patch?
tell me please, because i don t have the patch and if you work your editbin with the pesgalaxypatch i will download that patch.
sorry my english, man.
 
Son Goku said:
Can someone can tell me how striker with the number 7 at 1:05 so easily pushed the guard of? How does it work?

Video
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it kind of works that some things are pre determined so strength gets boosted or defender weakened..ive been noticing it more and more lately the AI in some games anticipate everything so through balls hardly work as either the thorugh ball pass is rubbish or the defender is positioned exactly where they need to be - not just on one pass but on 95% of them..same thing with your video in my opinion but other will argue not - after 8 months i have realised that there is an illusion of freedom on the pitch but that is what it is an illusion and every now and again the game shows us how restricted it is

dont get me wrong some games are brilliant and i enjoy online too every now and again
 
hitmanuk said:
it kind of works that some things are pre determined so strength gets boosted or defender weakened..ive been noticing it more and more lately the AI in some games anticipate everything...
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The thing you're not taking into account here is that attacker strength or defender weakness is determined by the difficulty level you play on. How else can difficulty levels be differentiated? If you play on a higher difficulty level, of course the CPU attacker is going to have a strength advantage that he wouldn't have if you play on a lower difficulty level.

Posting some random video of a defender bouncing off an attacker, and using that to criticize the game, is pointless. If you play on a difficulty level where that happens to you all the time, then you need to do one of two things: you need to play more defensively and choose defensive tactics to ensure you have more bodies in position to stop that from happening; or you need to simply lower the difficulty level.

And actually there is a third thing one can do, which is what I always do with these games: I revamp the player ratings in order to rebalance the gameplay, to suit my particular tastes and level of skill. For example, to balance the gameplay this year I lowered CPU players' speed, and I also lowered my team's shooting ratings.
 
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Son Goku said:
This was online match. You can't change that on online settings.
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My point is that there are a huge number of variables that a random video like that doesn't identify or take into account. We would need to know for example:
difficulty level as I said
strength rating of the attacker
strength rating of the defender
body balance ratings of the two players
speed and explosive power
elusiveness, ball control and retention
player skills and styles like fighting spirit, trickster, speeding bullet etc
and of course player form, stamina and fatigue at the time

All these things determine physical interaction and ball possession outcome.
 
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All that dosen't matter, this was just an example video, this happens all the time when I play online.

Stats don't matter, example: If I have Bellerin(attacking), and opponent has Pogba(defending), this also can happend, and vice versa.
 
angus said:
The thing you're not taking into account here is that attacker strength or defender weakness is determined by the difficulty level you play on. How else can difficulty levels be differentiated? If you play on a higher difficulty level, of course the CPU attacker is going to have a strength advantage that he wouldn't have if you play on a lower difficulty level.

Posting some random video of a defender bouncing off an attacker, and using that to criticize the game, is pointless. If you play on a difficulty level where that happens to you all the time, then you need to do one of two things: you need to play more defensively and choose defensive tactics to ensure you have more bodies in position to stop that from happening; or you need to simply lower the difficulty level.

And actually there is a third thing one can do, which is what I always do with these games: I revamp the player ratings in order to rebalance the gameplay, to suit my particular tastes and level of skill. For example, to balance the gameplay this year I lowered CPU players' speed, and I also lowered my team's shooting ratings.
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you may be right but if you are then surely it is wrong, if you are playing superstar it shouldnt automatically affect the weights of people. by that logic on superstar Sterling as an example would be able to barge John Terry off the ball...makes no sense to me in a stat based game
 
hitmanuk said:
you may be right but if you are then surely it is wrong, if you are playing superstar it shouldnt automatically affect the weights of people. by that logic on superstar Sterling as an example would be able to barge John Terry off the ball...makes no sense to me in a stat based game
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Okay, but then what should determine difficulty? How should Konami program the game so that Superstar is more difficult than the lower difficulty levels?

What has to happen in a stat-based game is that the ratings are tuned to one specific difficulty level. If you want a balanced and fair game where stats play out as they would in real life, you play on that level. If you want more of a challenge, then you raise the difficulty level, which in turn gives CPU players a boost in stat effectiveness. Raise the difficulty level further and CPU players are boosted even more. How else can they program increased difficulty, what's the alternative?
 
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angus said:
If you want more of a challenge, then you raise the difficulty level, which in turn gives CPU players a boost in stat effectiveness. Raise the difficulty level further and CPU players are boosted even more. How else can they program increased difficulty, what's the alternative?
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I am sure there are many alternatives, but here's one: on higher difficulty levels the CPU uses stats more effectively. For example, if there is a player with high dribbling stats, he will dribble more, in particular if facing a player with low defensive stats. A high physicality player would out-wrestle a low physicality player. A fast player would outrun slow players. And so on.

So basically the CPU would maximise the use of the strengths of its team and the weaknesses of the human opponent's team.
 
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angus said:
Okay, but then what should determine difficulty? How should Konami program the game so that Superstar is more difficult than the lower difficulty levels?

What has to happen in a stat-based game is that the ratings are tuned to one specific difficulty level. If you want a balanced and fair game where stats play out as they would in real life, you play on that level. If you want more of a challenge, then you raise the difficulty level, which in turn gives CPU players a boost in stat effectiveness. Raise the difficulty level further and CPU players are boosted even more. How else can they program increased difficulty, what's the alternative?
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Well, the AI is supposed to play smarter on higher difficulties. There's absolutely no need to increase or decrease stats.
 
hitmanuk said:
it kind of works that some things are pre determined so strength gets boosted or defender weakened..ive been noticing it more and more lately the AI in some games anticipate everything so through balls hardly work as either the thorugh ball pass is rubbish or the defender is positioned exactly where they need to be - not just on one pass but on 95% of them..same thing with your video in my opinion but other will argue not - after 8 months i have realised that there is an illusion of freedom on the pitch but that is what it is an illusion and every now and again the game shows us how restricted it is

dont get me wrong some games are brilliant and i enjoy online too every now and again
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L1 is a good modifier for keeping your opponent away I've noticed.
 
James Beaver said:
I am sure there are many alternatives, but here's one: on higher difficulty levels the CPU uses stats more effectively. For example, if there is a player with high dribbling stats, he will dribble more, in particular if facing a player with low defensive stats.
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That's one way yes, excellent idea. That definitely does not happen with the default game.
 
iancurtis said:
klashman your edit bin will have your tactics too?
and one more thing: your edit bin will be for pesgalaxy patch?
tell me please, because i don t have the patch and if you work your editbin with the pesgalaxypatch i will download that patch.
sorry my english, man.
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yeah its got all the tactics in and its only for pesgalaxy.
 
I'm surprised nobody has talked baout or mentioned the improvements in 1.03 patch where that CPU no cross issue has finally been fixed!

Yaya Toure scores a absolutely amazing goal in one of my videos which comes after a cross yet Man City where set to possession game short pass! :)
 
klashman69 said:
I'm surprised nobody has talked baout or mentioned the improvements in 1.03 patch where that CPU no cross issue has finally been fixed!
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My guess is that there's not much talk about crossing because it's still so rare. While I have seen some impressive crosses by the CPU, my quick estimate would be that it prefers other methods of offense at least 95% of the time.

The CPU seems to know many methods of offense, but unfortunately it looks like it prefers very few of them. I was amazed the other day when the CPU played a brilliant one-time layoff pass from inside the box to a one-timer by a midfielder (not sure if that description makes sense). I think it was the first time I've seen that approach in a very large number of matches.
 
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