PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I'm not hyped at all, it's sound like pes2012 2.0(it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing)
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Reading the first impressions and it all sounds really good...apart from the still low level of detail on wider cams and the same camera angles. Gameplay and shooting sound good though.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Shikashi said:
I don't want screens, I want videos.
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Surely nobody should be remotely surprised by the fact that screenshots come before videos in the yearly marketing run? If not, how many more years will it take before people stop complaining that they didn't get gameplay videos 5 months before the game is ready?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
Surely nobody should be remotely surprised by the fact that screenshots come before videos in the yearly marketing run? If not, how many more years will it take before people stop complaining that they didn't get gameplay videos 5 months before the game is ready?
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I'm not surprised, I meant that more as "I can't judge anything based on screens, so I don't know how much what WENB is saying is true or not".

They could just show off the stuff that Adam saw and I'd be happy.
 
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Shikashi said:
I'm not surprised, I meant that more as "I can't judge anything based on screens, so I don't know how much what WENB is saying is true or not".

They could just show off the stuff that Adam saw and I'd be happy.
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Precisely if it's good enough for journos and 'insiders' then why not the gaming public?

Screens mean nothing at all.
 
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Sounds promising BUT it always does at this stage, i'll eagerly more playtests of multiple different builds each proclaiming the greatest thing since toast. I am also looking forward to the very late news of ml, that it hasn't changed and we can't move clubs etc.... I'll wait for the final product this year and avoid the hype and demos.
 
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The wenb impressions are quite promising. It sounds as though PES2013 will be little more than a polished PES2012, which in itself is not a bad thing. PES2012 had massive potential but Konami gimped it at the last minute. Hopefully this year they don't do the same because the focus seems to be in all the right areas.

Not too bothered about the visuals as I'll be playing on the PC which looks leaps and bounds better than the PS3.

Edit - Perhaps I read wrong but I thought we were getting a trailer today?
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Shikashi said:
I'm not surprised, I meant that more as "I can't judge anything based on screens, so I don't know how much what WENB is saying is true or not".

They could just show off the stuff that Adam saw and I'd be happy.
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They will. They always do. Always. But never this soon.

It's a football game cliche, as sure as people complaining about hairstyles or nets or boots, that people will say something like "I don't want screens, I want videos", or "I don't want videos like this, I want gameplay videos" etc. I never know what good saying something like that is actually meant to do.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
They will. They always do. Always. But never this soon.

It's a football game cliche, as sure as people complaining about hairstyles or nets or boots, that people will say something like "I don't want screens, I want videos", or "I don't want videos like this, I want gameplay videos" etc. I never know what good saying something like that is actually meant to do.
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Equally why do people want to hype and drop jizz bombs at the first screen shots?
 
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Videos and screenshots aside, a slower game pace along with more shooting control and smarter AI all round sounds great. Need to see whether CPU controlled teams actually use more buildup play this time around.
 
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PES 2013: PES is exciting again - and it really could reclaim the footy crown
Hands-on with Konami's tactical contender
By Andy Robinson for CVG UK

It's an interesting time in the battle between the footy heavyweights. With FIFA 12 really pulling away from PES in unit sales, Konami's former genre champ seemingly has nothing to lose by pushing the innovation boat out in this year's instalment - and EA could just as easily end up resting on its laurels.
The result is a PES that again makes significant changes in feel and gameplay, with a slower pace and risky control introductions that could transform the way you approach post-pub virtual footy.

SHOOT TO KILL

As usual, Konami's presenting its PES 2013 additions in the form of three pillars: Full Control (PES FC), Advanced AI and Player ID. These were mentioned earlier this year in the form of a press release, and we have to admit we weren't exactly blown away. How wrong we were.



An extensive hands-on during a ridiculous trip to Sao Paulo, Brazil teased one of the most tactical, exciting Pro Evo instalments in a long time, and a game that many present in South America felt could genuinely give FIFA a shock result later this year.
Most significant to PES 2013's transformation is the aforementioned PES FC, which the feature bullet point list says lets players activate manual shooting, pull off various first touch-related skills, and make use of the new 'Full Manual Passing'.

The latter is basically the introduction of dynamic moves to player dribbling - a bit like FIFA 13's own system - which gives your virtual footballers greater accuracy in tighter spaces. This means insane dribbling through a packed penalty box, Barcelona style, is now absolutely possible - and supremely satisfying - with more skillful players like Iniesta.
On the subject of superstars, they really feel different this year. When Ronaldo is on the ball, alongside the giant name above his head you can also feel his skill and power behind the controls as he seemingly effortless beats defenders and draws fouls.
He also benefits from the introduction of Deft Touch Dribbling, another dynamic dribbling system which has your wingers making tighter touches when they're close to the line. Controlling old Winker on the edge of the box has him performing little heel taps and ball rolls. As well as the obvious gameplay consequences, this looks fantastic thanks to a brand new roster of animations.

PES FC also encompasses Dynamic One-Twos (again creating better accuracy in tight spaces), Enhanced Keepers (who look better and act far more realistically this year) and Advanced Trap. Trapping has you pressing R2 upon receiving a long cross. Bugger it up and the ball will bounce or speed ahead of your man, making it easy for defenders to clean up.



It adds a risk-reward element to offensive play, and advanced players can use the trapping system in conjunction with the right stick to faint a shot in the box or flick the ball in any direction they want.
But the absolute best addition to the attacking side of PES is Full Manual Shooting, which in our early demo allowed us to hold L2 to turn off all assistance whatsoever and often perform some ridiculous, unpredictable strikes.
The PES team is still working out how the implement the system for the final game, but during our hands-on time we saw some truly unexpected and awesome manual goals, with curl and brutal deflections contributing heavily. With FIFA 13's mission being to "capture the unpredictability of real-world football", it's ironic that so far PES is the game that has surprised us most.

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Pro Evolution Soccer 2013 Preview: Pass Master
By Martin Robinson Published 30 May, 2012
Konami's series returns to the dynamic flair football that made its name - and threatens to return PES to the top of the football pile.

As we walk amongst the dying embers of this round of consoles, it's safe to say that this generation hasn't been as kind to Pro Evolution Soccer as the last. The series' journey since its stuttering first steps and the rising fortunes of its rival have been documented well enough; but in FIFA's shadow, PES has quietly, and at times brilliantly, rebuilt itself as a dynamic, quick-fire alternative to the more studied rhythms of EA's game.

That journey was kicked off by Pro Evolution Soccer 2011, a game that dared to tear apart the series' fundamentals and start from scratch - an approach that, given the slow start that PES had on HD consoles, made perfect sense, taking the series in a direction that favoured fast-paced, combative football.

Having thrown its cards in the air a couple of years back, it feels like they've finally come down to settle into place for PES 2013. After two exciting if flawed outings, here's something approaching the end product, a realisation, perhaps, of what Pro Evo could and perhaps should have been this generation.

Not that those cards haven't been subject to a reshuffle. Shinji 'Seabass' Takatsuka has stepped down from his role at the head of the series, replaced by a new group of producers who've come up through the development team. Kei Masuda, who's worked on the series since 2003's PES 3, is the new face of the game, though sadly he's not present for the grand reveal - in his place is senior producer Naoya Hatsumi, another veteran who's taking up a more prominent role.

They're old hands but fresh faces, their appointments ushering in an end the conservatism that's held back more recent entries. "When we started developing PES 2013, we asked ourselves questions," Hatsumi begins. "What is the fundamental essence of football? What's the best part of football? This is our answer." It's an answer that, we're pleased to report, rings with the pomp and flair that's traditionally defined PES.

PES 2013's amendments and improvements were highlighted upon announcement, but it is, as ever, a minor revelation to see them come together in open play. The headline addition is PES Full Control (or - cutely - PES FC), an umbrella term for a range of tweaks and new features that place a greater emphasis on a player's dexterity with finger and thumb, translating it into an athletic showcase of footwork and agility.

Dynamic First Touch is one of the more interesting of the additions, especially when placed in contrast to FIFA 13's First Touch Control - features that are superficially similar but that reveal, on closer inspection, philosophies that are near-diametrically opposed. In FIFA there's a new-found emphasis on the way that chance plays into the beautiful game, and how controlling an incoming pass is so very dependent on skill as well as a little luck, with balls likely to spill out across the pitch if not treated with a certain amount of respect.

In PES 2013, it's all about giving the player a level of control that tends towards the spectacular. Holding down the right trigger when a ball comes in enables a trap, a cushioning that can tame an incoming ball or that can, with a little skill, use its momentum to turn against the opposition; a click of the right stick as the ball's being trapped sets off a deft flick that can send it over your head and, if circumstance allows, over the heads of any inbound defenders. It's a tighter sense of control that makes lofted passes a little more viable than they have been in the past.

This level of control has been extended to more intimate moments, too. Deft Touch Dribbling continues last year's concern with placing an emphasis on close control, and so putting more focus on the myriad one-on-one encounters that make up a game of football. By combining movements with the left and right sticks, players stroke the ball around, tapping away at it and rolling it around under the sole of their boot and enabling a little pensive pause in play before the next decisive move is made.

Countering the close control is response defending, an amendment that sees some of the defensive improvements of last year's FIFA make their way to PES. Holding down the tackle button harries an opposition player, holding up the play - while double-tapping the same button sends the player lunging in pursuit of the ball, a challenge that won't necessarily work out, that outcome made more likely by the more advanced close control that's afforded to attacking players.

Balancing the potential frailty of defenders and the empowered attack is Pro Active AI, an amendment that sees computer-controlled players off the ball making much smarter use of the space around them. It's highlighted well in a direct comparison with last year's model, where a defensive line would remain rigid in the line of fire - whereas this time out, it's more fluid, working to block off potential channels of attack.

PES 2013's improvements allow for greater expression in play, and for more individual personality to emerge in an encounter. Reflecting that within the code is a little more personality from the players on the pitch, with more individual stances and tics making the cut. There's cover star Ronaldo's arrogant stance, legs wide apart, from free kicks, as well as a reflection of his uniquely fleet-footed dribbling.

Then there's Iniesta's deft dribbling and his ability to cut a ball in with alarming precision, Ribery's turn and Neymar's general ability to dazzle defences with acts of incredible athleticism. Some of the quirks are less flattering for the players, though: Robben now runs, true to life, like a camp aeroplane, while John Terry will fling himself at moments of desperation like a stiff and unsavoury salmon.

So how does it all hang together? Oddly, the thing that strikes first when playing PES 2013 isn't any of the headline additions; it's the pace, with games being carried out at a much more sedate rate than PES 2012 (although given the hyperactive nature of that particular game, it would have been unwise to have gone any faster). It's still played at a quicker lick than its rival, but it's certainly more ponderous, giving players the time to indulge and experiment with the changes brought in by PES FC.
More on PES 2013

PES FC works well, though it's currently a little unbalanced - Ronaldo possesses ungodly skills, a quirk that the development team promises will be fixed by the time the game releases proper.

And the most striking of those is the Full Manual Control that's now actively encouraged. Manual passing has been complemented by a manual one-two that allows you to direct the second ball, enabling lay-offs that, if placed well, can prove lethal. Manual shooting, meanwhile, gives a level of control that's dizzying at first, a feeling compounded by being thrown in at the deep end in a competitive match. (It's a problem that, to its credit, PES' development team acknowledges; it's working on implementing a full tutorial.)

Indeed, playing PES 2013 for the first time, it's easy to feel lost. But any sense of confusion soon gives way to a sense of wonder as the possibilities enabled by the new systems become apparent, with deft one-twos giving way to driven shots across the box that fly into the top corner, all directed with precision by the player in a fully manual set-up. There's a learning curve, but in giving so much control over to the player there's also the sense of unpredictability that made PES so alluring back in its heyday - the feeling that a goal could emerge from any situation and that, with the right amount of skill and a little luck, anything's possible.

This isn't the conservative PES that iterated itself into oblivion for so many years, and nor, right now, does it seem to be one that's hamstrung by minor flaws that blemish its grand philosophy. In fact, PES 2013 comes across as positively daring, its move towards a brand of flair football promising a game that's uniquely intoxicating, and one that means that the series could see out this generation the way it saw out the last.
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Previews sound interesting.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

How much of these impressions are based on single-player? I'd put money on very very little. I'd even put some money on NONE AT ALL.

Pro Evolution Soccer is a single-player game in its heart and soul. All the summer previewers ever do is play against their mates from other websites and magazines. They've not actually played the game we'll end up playing in October.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Keith Houchen said:
How much of these impressions are based on single-player? I'd put money on very very little. I'd even put some money on NONE AT ALL.

Pro Evolution Soccer is a single-player game in its heart and soul. All the summer previewers ever do is play against their mates from other websites and magazines. They've not actually played the game we'll end up playing in October.
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True, sadly very true for both titles. Both the 'professional' journos and 'community' representatives seemingly only play human vs human games which obviously give no information as to what human vs CPU games are like.

Their time with the game prior to release is less about systematically testing the game more about having a laugh with their mates on a jolly.
 
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Sounds quite promising, still concerned they're focusing the individuality on those 'top 50' players rather than differentiating the lower-end players more. I'd prefer it if they introduced the imperfections and inaccuracies you find progressively more of in that spectrum, rather than simply improving the top-end players comparatively more. Things like Ronaldo having a unique shot-feint is pretty irrelevant to most of us on here I suspect.

Good to see that 3 bar passing is more free, shame 0 bar still lacks clear differentiation in passing accuracies though.

Also if it really was slower paced every year that it's promised we'd be into full on slow-motion by now.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Arthur Young said:
True, sadly very true for both titles. Both the 'professional' journos and 'community' representatives seemingly only play human vs human games which obviously give no information as to what human vs CPU games are like.

Their time with the game prior to release is less about systematically testing the game more about having a laugh with their mates on a jolly.
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Or maybe, just maybe, EA / Konami want to be able to get as many people as possible playing the game at each press/community event. 16 at 8 booths, rather than 8.


And when was PES ever more of a single player game than a multiplayer game? It has always had both at its heart and soul. Fair enough if some of you'd rather this round of impressions was at least partly based on single player, but let's keep a level head while we're at it.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
Or maybe, just maybe, EA / Konami want to be able to get as many people as possible playing the game at each press/community event. 16 at 8 booths, rather than 8.


And when was PES ever more of a single player game than a multiplayer game? It has always had both at its heart and soul. Fair enough if some of you'd rather this round of impressions was at least partly based on single player, but let's keep a level head while we're at it.
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Why not 14 people at 7 booths, and 1 at the 8th booth? Or 12 people at 6 booths and 1 each at the other two?

I'd bet the journos would have been up for that, considering that single-player IS still - and I pray God always will be - the main source of PES gameplay experience for PES players over the course of a calendar year.

Now I'm far from trying to impose my personal template on others, but I'd say that 'single player is still King' is the truth based on informal soundings among PES veterans I know at work and socially - a much smaller but hardier-than-ever bunch, nowadays - and on long-term observation of the comments and conversations that take place across the PES Internet.

I remember it going something like this last year -

PES2012 previewers, summer 2011: PES2012 is awesome!

PES2012 players, October 2011: OMG, the CPU sits right back in single player! And there are all these other issues with the AI. Why haven't we heard about them until now?!

PES2012 previewers: er, we didn't actually play any single-player...
 
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jeuxvideo.com say that the game is even more attack-orientated than before.Like the AI can still pull off those almost impossible to stop dribbling sequences.
wtf ?????
 
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The Player ID is by far the most exciting feature, specialy because it seems that they added tons of different animations with good variation between players to capt their real life movement, dribbling and shooting.

The pace being slowed down more like real life is ineresting as well, and that deep AI defence line is gone, we will no longer see the CPU AI occupying every single space on defence and so many of them inside the box. No unnecessary need of pressing super cancel in every ball anymore, and we will probably have more control over loose ball situations.

These changes will definetly make the game more enjoyable to play, but whether the game will play like a really new game or not, that makes you feel you are really playing a new version of PES and not just a patched version of previous year, only time will tell.
 
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Now I'm far from trying to impose my personal template on others, but I'd say that 'single player is still King' is the truth based on informal soundings among PES veterans I know at work and socially - a much smaller but hardier-than-ever bunch, nowadays - and on long-term observation of the comments and conversations that take place across the PES Internet.
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Single player may be king now, comparatively. The people who were playing PES with mates in the past and absolutely loving the experience are now playing FIFA, or have been playing online which has only really been in a playable state for, what, two years tops? So single player may well have emerged recently because it was harder to get two people in a room to enjoy the game, but certainly in the PS2 days multiplayer was more crucial to PES's popularity and ability to evoke the spirit of the game than ML.

Keith Houchen said:
Why not 14 people at 7 booths, and 1 at the 8th booth? Or 12 people at 6 booths and 1 each at the other two?

I'd bet the journos would have been up for that, considering that single-player IS still - and I pray God always will be - the main source of PES gameplay experience for PES players over the course of a calendar year.

I remember it going something like this last year -

PES2012 previewers, summer 2011: PES2012 is awesome!

PES2012 players, October 2011: OMG, the CPU sits right back in single player! And there are all these other issues with the AI. Why haven't we heard about them until now?!

PES2012 previewers: er, we didn't actually play any single-player...
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Given that most of the press so far has talked about playing around 10 games, 5 people would not have managed a single game vs the CPU, and everyone else would have managed just one.

You're also missing out the further preview opportunities that people usually get, AND the review stage, where the press and one or two members of the community are given builds to play at their own leisure. There's also the question of how advanced the work on the CPU AI is and whether Konami are happy to exhibit it to the press at this stage. I had one PES 2012 game as l'OM against Barca when I went to Adam's last year, for what it's worth, and there was no such problem with bus parking that I could determine from one game. Much of the game was played around the middle of the park, or hemmed into my own box. The same was true for Rodelero and the others I watched play.

I don't remember people talking about this problem much when the demos were released, either (I may be wrong).


I don't disagree that impressions on single player are important - but people have to be realistic about why none have emerged as of yet, rather than being facile and cynical towards the press or community. It's May FFS.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

romagnoli said:
Or maybe, just maybe, EA / Konami want to be able to get as many people as possible playing the game at each press/community event. 16 at 8 booths, rather than 8.


And when was PES ever more of a single player game than a multiplayer game? It has always had both at its heart and soul. Fair enough if some of you'd rather this round of impressions was at least partly based on single player, but let's keep a level head while we're at it.
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No problem keeping a level head. But in return journos and community sites should be forbidden to even mention any of the single player modes and how awesome they are with the Japanese flair like we heard last year. You haven't played the single player to give me impressions of how the CPU behaves, you have no right telling me anything about ML, BAL, etc. Either you don't want to play single player or Konami is not letting you play single player. Either case makes a journo lose total credibility when he/she uses any single player mode as a selling point for the game. We heard too many positive things about the single player modes last summer that when the game came out and single player was basically broken, all those previews became rather dodgy. So sorry if we're not "keeping a level head". Seems to me our cynicism has been well-earned!
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Keith Houchen said:
How much of these impressions are based on single-player? I'd put money on very very little. I'd even put some money on NONE AT ALL.

Pro Evolution Soccer is a single-player game in its heart and soul. All the summer previewers ever do is play against their mates from other websites and magazines. They've not actually played the game we'll end up playing in October.
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Spot on.

We urgently need reliable impression about the CPU AI.
 
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