PES 2012 Football Life thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
This whole momentum/cheating is bit of a double-edged sword with me, I tend to accept how the game plays out for what it is. You cannot blame the CPU for so-called 'cheating' then in the very same breath claim that the CPU 'cheated' in your favour. It's called the flow of the game. Sure, you may feel that when the CPU strings 5 passes together then scores, it was pre-determined. But then anyone who has played football at any level in real-life could say exactly the same thing. How did the Bayern players feel when Man Utd scored two goals in the last 2 minutes to win the CL Cup. Or how did the Greeks feel when Becks scored that Free-kick for Engalnd to draw the game in nthe 93rd minute to take us to the World Cup. Where those moments scripted ? Hell no. It's just football. This is the reason I never truly feel cheated, it's the nature of the game. And it can feel brutal at times, but it is what it is. PES looks to replicate the highs and lows, the peaks and troughs of the sport. With that in mind, we should not be suprised when PES throws up these moments.
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I'm going to respectfully disagree. This is a game and is programmed it isn't human. Bayern Muncih failing to defend in real life is totally different to a computer completing a task that the user has no input to the possible outcome. If this is the case you might as well just watch football as opposed to playing it on a console/pc etc.

I fear a lot of PES fans make excuses for these kind of (alleged) defects in the game and put it down to it happens in real life rather that accepting there are faults case and point the goalkeepers.
 
hitmanuk said:
I'm going to respectfully disagree. This is a game and is programmed it isn't human. Bayern Muncih failing to defend in real life is totally different to a computer completing a task that the user has no input to the possible outcome. If this is the case you might as well just watch football as opposed to playing it on a console/pc etc.

I fear a lot of PES fans make excuses for these kind of (alleged) defects in the game and put it down to it happens in real life rather that accepting there are faults case and point the goalkeepers.
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The bottom-line is, is it what it is. No matter which way you look at it. The end result is always the same, no matter which way you choose to spin it.

You mention Bayern not able to stop those two goals, what difference is that to us conceding two late goals ? Nothing at all. It is what it is. That's football. And anybody that has played football at any level will vouch for that, I honestly cant see how that could be argued against.

Also, I'm not making excuses for PES, it's my mentality as a footballer first and foremost that dictates the way I feel, not some blind fanaticism. I'm far too long in the tooth for that bullshit.
 
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Weird things happen irl football too, but sometimes the game (i'm not talking about PES2012) is really too scripted...if you keep on loosing the same way...then something is wrong.

I remember a PES (a couple of years ago, one of the catastrophe PES editions) where i played a ML with Getafe and had a possesion rate of 65% (exceptionally for me) and couldn't scored despite 20 or 25 shots on goal. The CPU had one or two shots on goal and virtually scored on an 100% ratio. I had that match after match after match...frustrating... It was at the time that i did my NAC Breda (or was it Rhoda JC, i always confound these two teams) experiment: playing a match against them with AZ, loosing that way and restart the game (yes, i tend to cheat) and loosing exactly the same way with the same score...I can become stubborn and played that same match over and over again...every time i lost in a similar way (not identic)...i gave up after over 20 attempts.

Then i decided to do the reasonable thing: play the game on a lower level (which is no disgrace, and a thing lots of complaining people should try...but machism prevents them from doing the logical thing): i won all matches with a difference of 4or 5 goals....that year i played FIFA...

The one thing i fear most about PES2012 is this inbalance. Otherwise if the AI cheats i will play on a lower level and hopefully will enjoy myself.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
The bottom-line is, is it what it is. No matter which way you look at it. The end result is always the same, no matter which way you choose to spin it.

You mention Bayern not able to stop those two goals, what difference is that to us conceding two late goals ? Nothing at all. It is what it is. That's football. And anybody that has played football at any level will vouch for that, I honestly cant see how that could be argued against.

Also, I'm not making excuses for PES, it's my mentality as a footballer first and foremost that dictates the way I feel, not some blind fanaticism. I'm far too long in the tooth for that bullshit.
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Im not trying to cause an argument but its just not the same if the Ai is cheating. It's totaly different as if Bayern as humans could of defended better by the process of decision making in defence. What people are saying on here is the AI cheats and scores no matter what you do or what decisions you make.
 
And again, like I said, each to their own with their take on it. Thankfully for me, I have never felt cheated on PES, yet. And that is due my obvious differing mentality, which is based soley on football and how it works.

For every last minute goal from the CPU, I can give you one from myself. It balances well in my personal opinion. People tend to whinge and bitch when 'scripts' as they say, dont go their way. They need to be honest with themselves and realise just how many times it does fall in their favour also. That's the beauty of football and it's unpredictive nature, it can swing either way at any time. And so does PES.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
This whole momentum/cheating is bit of a double-edged sword with me, I tend to accept how the game plays out for what it is. You cannot blame the CPU for so-called 'cheating' then in the very same breath claim that the CPU 'cheated' in your favour. It's called the flow of the game. Sure, you may feel that when the CPU strings 5 passes together then scores, it was pre-determined. But then anyone who has played football at any level in real-life could say exactly the same thing. How did the Bayern players feel when Man Utd scored two goals in the last 2 minutes to win the CL Cup. Or how did the Greeks feel when Becks scored that Free-kick for England to draw the game in the 93rd minute to take us to the World Cup. Where those moments scripted ? Hell no. It's just football. This is the reason I never truly feel cheated, it's the nature of the game. And it can feel brutal at times, but it is what it is. PES looks to replicate the highs and lows, the peaks and troughs of the sport. With that in mind, we should not be suprised when PES throws up these moments.
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While I agree with you in a general way, the main difference is in the frequency of these events. Man Utd getting 2 late goals or Beckham 93 minute freekcik are extremely rare occurance for any soccer match anywhere in the world - that's why they're so memorable. With PES, this happens more than enough times to make you think that more than "the stars are aligned" type magic is happening. I love this game and was a huge PES fan on PS2, but this has always been my gripe with the series. It hasn't been enough for me to stop playing, but it does get frustrating.

This release, I'm playing BAL for the 1st time and really love it. But you can't help notice since you only control 1 player (mine is a SS) that there is a marked difference in the way your team plays vs the oppostition. Your team is disorganized on defense, can't win a header, they never make a good through pass. Every opposition team is highly organized, skillful and clinical in finishing. I'm in my second season, so I have a fairly good sample to go on. I'm with Rayo Vallecano in Spain, so I'm interested in seeing how this plays out when I get to a bigger club. If I get to Napoli or Man Utd and this keeps up, I will stop playing BAL. I won't be able to watch my clearly superior team playing like a bunch of overweight local league players.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
And again, like I said, each to their own with their take on it. Thankfully for me, I have never felt cheated on PES, yet. And that is due my obvious differing mentality, which is based soley on football and how it works.

For every last minute goal from the CPU, I can give you one from myself. It balances well in my personal opinion. People tend to whinge and bitch when 'scripts' as they say, dont go their way. They need to be honest with themselves and realise just how many times it does fall in their favour also. That's the beauty of football and it's unpredictive nature, it can swing either way at any time. And so does PES.
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But that's my gripe with it. On FIFA, there's no such thing. You can play bad and win, play good and lose, play bad and lose, draw, etc., but it never feels scripted. When I concede a goal in FIFA I really feel that was because I messed up.

In PES, everything feels so random, even when I score. Sometimes I feel I've overhit a shot, then the ball goes in. Then it looks like I've done everything perfectly and my player finishes like Gattuso.
 
My opinion on the cheating is it's just a prominent momentum system. FIFA has it also. I know since i used to do gameplay tweaks and 'hack' into the AI file.

You keep Losing the same way it's scripted? Then again even when i felt i was CLEARLY being 'cheated'. I played the match 5 times and in the later matches i decided to change tactics rather drastically then managed to beat them 2-0!

So this is why i believe the cheating isn't as scripted as people say and instead it's a momentum system. If the CPU keeps beating you in the same way, you must always question to yourself, 'Are you playing the same way to allow them to beat you?' Did you even make one 'tiny' mistake? Did you miss a clearance? Also ALWAYS remember to change your tactics to a setting which you find comfortable for your team :) I tend to get beaten using default tactics and trying to play possession football where by default they are set to long ball etc....

The worst type of cheating i think in PES and pretty much the 'only' type of cheating which i find unpreventable is when the keep having Corners until they score. i remember PES 2009, the CPU had 6 successive corners until they scored.

I must say though on -2 speed i have never felt remotely cheated on this game! Its on the higher speeds i think it comes into play more.
 
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leandropuc86 said:
But that's my gripe with it. On FIFA, there's no such thing. You can play bad and win, play good and lose, play bad and lose, draw, etc., but it never feels scripted. When I concede a goal in FIFA I really feel that was because I messed up.

In PES, everything feels so random, even when I score. Sometimes I feel I've overhit a shot, then the ball goes in. Then it looks like I've done everything perfectly and my player finishes like Gattuso.
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Opinions. The reason I dont play Fifa is because I've always felt cheated. Exactly the opposite to what you have just said to be honest. Again, opinions.

Ctruppi,

I would expect your BAL to get better. When I moved to Napoli in PES 09 on BAL, the difference was huge. And Lavezzi, oh my, that kid could read my mind. When I started my ML, he was my first buy. He is what I remember and love most about PES 09 actually.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Opinions. The reason I dont play Fifa is because I've always felt cheated. Exactly the opposite to what you have just said to be honest. Again, opinions.

Ctruppi,

I would expect your BAL to get better. When I moved to Napoli in PES 09 on BAL, the difference was huge. And Lavezzi, oh my, that kid could read my mind. When I started my ML, he was my first buy. He is what I remember and love most about PES 09 actually.
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That's what I'm holding out for! I figure my current situation is just the purgatory us wanna be legends have to endure in the beginning. And, like I said, I'm really hooked on this game and won't be putting it down anytime soon. The many, many positives far outweigh some of these issues IMHO!
 
You know what, I can honestly say that when BAL was launched in 2009, it was the most I've ever been addicted to any PES in my life. And I've been playing the series exclusively since ISS 64. I was even nipping home on my dinner-hour from work to play my BAL games. When you start to get picked up for the National team, and playing the World Cup and Euro's, it's a truly amazing experience. I remember taking England to the World Cup Finals with a 86th minute chipped goal from 25 yards out in the far top corner against the Dutch in our last group qualifying game. What a feeling that was, amazing.

I'll never forget Napoli though, I was a CF, and Lavezzi picked me out with almost every pass, or at least that's how it seemed. He was incredible, if he didnt play, neither did Napoli. It was that simple. I actually left Napoli for Juventus, but then went back the next season, and it was all down to Lavezzi.

I completed 11 seasons on BAL and won it all, albeit on Regular difficulty level. I think Professional would now be the best difficulty setting in hindsight. But boy, did I totally adore BAL that year. With the advent of the new ML in PES 10, I didnt play it that year. I had a brief visit last year, but I also found PEEL and Online play, so never really got back into BAL like I had in PES 09.

I truly believe that BAL is the most realistic way to play a football game, it has all the frustrations, high's and low's of the real game. Afterall, when you play football in real-life, it's all about you, you have no control over your team-mates.
 
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Yes I'm totally hooked. Never thought I would like it, but man is it great! BAL has definitely won me over.
 
Installed the new DLC and the PESEdit patch 1.3 then started a new ML on Top Player this morning. Medium transfer activity, club management on, 20 minute matches.

One thing I liked is how players I bought straightaway in my other save, didn't sign this time. Two of them were exact same circumstances (still on bench at their clubs, out of favour, same size squads and I had same amount of rivals in their potential positions). Last year I remember getting the same bunch of players every time I started afresh, no deal complications.

First five matches a lot of fun, hammered Zenit 5-1 at home in the friendly but lost 4-3 away at Stoke in the first league game. Drew away at Wolves & Liverpool, but then beat Arsenal 3-1 at home.

Made a couple of signings in the end but no-one bid for any of my wastes of space. I had to release Jake Livermore just so I could go into September whilst not in debt. That wasn't fair - I wanted to keep him but he was the only solution in terms of paying a low severance fee to be able to cut the wage bill.

Meaningless info now, I've switched from having Doctor Who as my boss, in favour of a much more mouthy British TV pleb / personality (he looks a right cunt in-game). Clue: his name is on the wall and it's his show.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
For every last minute goal from the CPU, I can give you one from myself. It balances well in my personal opinion. People tend to whinge and bitch when 'scripts' as they say, dont go their way. They need to be honest with themselves and realise just how many times it does fall in their favour also. That's the beauty of football and it's unpredictive nature, it can swing either way at any time. And so does PES.
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But Jimmy, what do you do then with my Nac Breda experiment, playing more than 20 times the same match and every single time having the same outcome in a very, very similar way...Now it would be possible that i'm simply not good enough (but why do i have much more possession and shots on goal than the CPU? But let's forget this for the sake of argument). But lets take a real football match that is similar: England-Lichtenstein.
If this match will be played 20 times, it is very well possible that England will win 20 times. But will England win 20 times in a very similar way. Let's pretend the game ends 6-1 and that Liechtenstein scores the third goal, what is the probability that Liechtenstein will score the third goal in all the other matches? This is simply not possible. That is wrong with some PES editions (PES2011 clearly did not have that...and other good editions neither).
 
gerd said:
But Jimmy, what do you do then with my Nac Breda experiment, playing more than 20 times the same match and every single time having the same outcome in a very, very similar way...Now it would be possible that i'm simply not good enough (but why do i have much more possession and shots on goal than the CPU? But let's forget this for the sake of argument). But lets take a real football match that is similar: England-Lichtenstein.
If this match will be played 20 times, it is very well possible that England will win 20 times. But will England win 20 times in a very similar way. Let's pretend the game ends 6-1 and that Liechtenstein scores the third goal, what is the probability that Liechtenstein will score the third goal in all the other matches? This is simply not possible. That is wrong with some PES editions (PES2011 clearly did not have that...and other good editions neither).
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is this what you are witnessing in pes2012
 
I think it's down to the basic nature of videogames. I felt a bit of this in PES2011 but I also feel it a lot in FIFA12. The number of times I score near the end of a match in FIFA only to see the AI suddenly 'boost' itself. Players start running and moving like they're on speed, suddenly within 20 seconds the AI has scored a goal I could do little about.

I agree with both sides of the argument oddly, but think it's present in both games and is simply a symptom of the AI not being advanced enough yet for what people want. The AI needs to be able to work its own goals but it can seem a little crude with current levels of AI. It's a strange one. If you have an AI that scores with little you can do about it, it does feel like you've been slightly cheated.....depending on how the goal was scored. But if the game AI worked it so that the AI could never score without it being a case of you personally being responsible, then sooner or later you'd be so good at the game that offline modes would be pointless. You'd be able to shut out the AI opposition to such an extent that they'd never ever be able to score unless you made a glaring error.

I see both sides, but that's just video games for you.
 
I've read there was a problem with the training in Football Life: youngsters didnt get better / playerstats drop like hell. Is that just a way of getting your training regime right or is it more like a bug that needs to be fixed by Konami?
 
hitmanuk said:
is this what you are witnessing in pes2012
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No, i still haven't got the game (the post just passed by with both PES and Forza and dropped a note that nobody was home, i was literally less than 1m away from them...sprinted to the door...but they were already gone...).

I think it must have been PES 2008 or 2009...they were both horrible.
 
Roy84nl said:
I've read there was a problem with the training in Football Life: youngsters didnt get better / playerstats drop like hell. Is that just a way of getting your training regime right or is it more like a bug that needs to be fixed by Konami?
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I'm not sure about "Club Boss" mode or "BAL" but in Master League I switch between the schemes but always apply condition training straight after a match. For example there's a week between two matches. After match one, I use condition for a day or two, then speed for the rest of the week. After match two, condition again for a day or two, then technique for the rest of the week.

After a season the young players seemed to have progressed fine. Older players (30+) slowly declining. I have to say I prefer the training system from 2011 much more.
 
In BAL there is player dev. Your player is allocated training points to different areas (passing, shooting, fitness, etc) based on the team you sign with and their philosophy. You also get some free training slots that you can add to areas of your choice so your development tends to be focused in certain attributes. When asking for a new team, one of the search filters is actually team training philosophy, so you can go to a team that is in line with your personal thinking on areas for dev.

Don't know how it works for ML, but assume it's similar to previous iterations. I've read that some folks are having issues in Club Boss with players losing abilities. Haven't played it though, so can't confirm. Hope that helps.
 
amier said:
CPU reads your inputs
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Thats right, and i think its what makes the game feels so shit on Top Player. No matter how good your defenders are and how many of them are chasing one player of the CPU, its impossible to still the ball of that player. When you defender reacts, the cpu player has already made the move so there's nothing you can do sometimes.

Their cross/pass/long ball/throung ball are 100% precise and deadly aswell.

I will probably change to Professional :COAT:
 
proxi said:
I'm not sure about "Club Boss" mode or "BAL" but in Master League I switch between the schemes but always apply condition training straight after a match. For example there's a week between two matches. After match one, I use condition for a day or two, then speed for the rest of the week. After match two, condition again for a day or two, then technique for the rest of the week.

After a season the young players seemed to have progressed fine. Older players (30+) slowly declining. I have to say I prefer the training system from 2011 much more.
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Lifesaver. Before this post I was not happy with the training. I would set a training regime then click next and my team would do the same training for a week.

Now I realise that instead of clicking next, you have to click "skip to chosen date". That way you can advance day by day and set different training regimes every day.

Only realised this near the end of my first season by which time a lot of players had declined. I think this method will be much better for developing the team so I'll probably start a new ML.
 
Im a bit confused :(

So I've spent a week playing FIFA12 ML (whatever the correct term is) and have kinda got hooked with all the bells & whistles - the commentary team chatting about the
Mid week comments I made about the opposition team, the slick presentation and quality gameplay (I haven't spent any real time with FIFA since about FIFA09). anyway finally my copy of PES12 arrives and I fire up my first ML experience and it feels a little stale?? How could this be? Obviously I'll need to really wait until I have a proper OF so I can play with my fav team. But yeah I'm searching for that PES magic... Possibly I just need to relax and it will come as the ML season grinds on. =\
 
My thoughts on ML (copied from discussion thread)

I play on PC -2 speed and 0 pass assistance. There are of course some negatives but I just want to mention what I like.

Playing with Catania, Professional 15 mins. Real struggle in 1st season. Every goal counted and was therefore a real joy. Found a better way to train, improved my coaches and tactics and getting more reward in the 2nd season.

I know about the strengths and weaknesses of all my players and using them correctly really makes a difference.

Getting such a wide variety of matches, from tight no or low scoring games to 3-3 draws to 6-3 defeats. As I said, I loved PES 5 but the AI wouldn’t be that dangerous and there wasn’t much variety in scores.

Top players stand out and cause me problems. So much so that I often result to fouling them hoping to cause injuries. Players that have scored hat-tricks vs me: Lavezzi, Pato, Pastore, Neymar. Brilliant.

Re: top players, my chairman asking me to do all I can to stop Lavezzi from scoring was a nice challenge. He’d scored a hat-trick in the 1st meeting, so managing to then actually stop him felt great.

Form arrows work better, fatigue works better, morale works better. Trying to play a player out of position so he learns the position. He’s played quite well but now morale and form have gone down. Do I keep trying to play him there or revert him back to try and improve his form and morale? Love it.

Scoring a wide variety of goals. Demo made me think long shots were too easy, but my players are simply not good enough to consistently score like that so I’m having to try different things. Even long ball football, which I don’t like, can be effective and I’m forced to use it for the good of the team.

Have seen no stupid transfers with transfers set to low. Only Neymar to Udinese, but he is a free agent and I can convince myself that an up and coming Champions League team would be a good stepping stone into European Football for him. In fact there have been so few big transfers that medium setting may be better but I don’t know.
 
Here's a question. So far i haven't played FL but is form/morale dictated by ratings in recent games? Ratings simply don't work, unless you score a hattrick and get 8, so i sure as heck hope this isn't the case.
 
I remember in PES 2011's BAL that I would get higher ratings if I more closely followed the coaches instructions as opposed to scoring goals/assists. That's why I used the auto positioning button a lot to make sure I was in the right area for my role, not necessarily what I thought was how I should play that position generally.
 
Morale is done well. If players are not playing or playing out of position or the team is losing a lot morale goes down, and of course the opposite is true.
Morale seems to have a big effect on form arrows, so players with very low morale are usually off form.
Quality of coaches also affects form arrows.
It's hard to tell what impact match ratings have on form.

Good thing this year is you don't have a completely off form team for away games
 
So has anyone reached age 24-25 in BAL? I have played 1.5 seasons and it seems to me that player development is extremely slow (eventhough I have been transferred to Barca who have 18 coaching points)

My overall stats has improved from 63 to 70 but it has slowed down considerably in the second season. I wonder if anyone can tell me how fast your player improves form age 19-25?

anyone?
 
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