PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Gab_]

Hmm, coming demo is older build than the Gamescom build. Then one month later they will release another demo that will be from the final build. So first demo will have some issues that already has been fixed for the gamescom version. Well I'm happy that we get early demo, even if it's a beta demo. I hope the AI is still as good.

 

[Thespeedster84]

...
Tbh I wouldn't everyone to pass and hold their positions, I prefer them finding space for me to pass it back or I'll have create something myself.

I'm not quite sure what exactly is the issue though, maybe Konami have upped it a bit. Maybe the teams we've seen are playing offensive strategies. Best thing is trying the demo next week, not long to go now. Test the hell out of it...

Yep, demo should reveal to us what happen exactly

Tbf, just for the sake of discussion though. I agree with someone post somewhere above. Most of the time, after a pass is made, the player (cpu or human), re-position them self facing opponent goal and make a run. They will stop after sometimes to get back to their position. This scripted part should not happen. Especially when passing around in our defence area without any pressure of the opponent.

In another note, it should be more contextual to "run" or "jog" right after the pass is made. Of course their intial direction facing when making a pass to team mate should take into account where their next movement is.

 

[Rodelero]

Incidentally, in a further point towards this player-bombing-forward stuff, remember those rather unexciting videos on Gametrailers? Because it's certainly not happening here. That's the thing, this bombing forward looks like the way they bomb forward if you hold L1.
Pro Evolution Soccer 2012 Video Game, FC Barcelona Vs Manchester United Gameplay | Video Clip | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com
Pro Evolution Soccer 2012 Video Game, Real Madrid Vs AC Milan Gameplay HD | Video Clip | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com

 

[romagnoli]

.

 

[Gab_]

But it seems like the Milan (CPU) defenders too sprint after every pass, that's why people are a bit concerned.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Any master league online info yet?

 

[Rodelero]

To be fair Rom, it happens on pretty every video, and it happens with the CPU in a lot of cases too. I think it's lightly possible that there is a bug in this particular build. Then again, there are videos where it isn't happening so much.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Maybe, but it's been more apparent to me that in 99.9% of all gameplay videos I've seen so far, the two people playing want to make it as arcade like as possible - faster speed settings, constant sprinting, and those vids do look like they're holding L1 constantly, even with defenders. All the players bombing forward do run in a straight line which is a huge indicator of L1 spamming to me.

I'm trusting the views of the good people on this forum who've played it, much more than some random dudes who think football should be played by rushing everyone up the pitch as fast as possible and trying quick ping pong passing. There's no logical sense why Konami would go down that road at such a late stage in the game's development.

 

[Gab_]

Messi looks lethal.
YouTube - gamescom 2011 - PES 2012: First-Look

 

[Srider]

Even from earlier videos released before gamescom, I have noticed that the AI has not improved like those Jon Murphy videos. Konami can show what they want in a controlled condition in those videos, but the recent batch of videos from gamescom confirms that the PES team will once again fail to deliver.

In the Milan vs ManU video, why does every player run forward after each pass? Let's assume that the player who is playing is initiating the 1-2 run, yet this again shows the flaw in PES AI where the ONLY run you can initiate are the ones perfectly straight up the field.

Where are the diagonal runs they promised? Even overlapping runs, let's assume they happen in the game, are not always straight up the sidelines as what is happening in all the footage shown thus far.

In a typical Manchester United match, with wingers like Nani running in from the outside, full backs like Rafael will oftentimes take the ball inside, and then pass to Nani who is further to the side of the pitch, and instead of running straight up the field, will actually circle back and run around behind Nani so to give him the option to dribble inside or pass outside to Rafael. This type of off the ball movement is completely absent in all of the footage.

So what does Konami do? Add a useless feature to the R3 stick letting you control two players. What a sad bolt on "fix" to the severely lacking AI they promised would improve. All they have done is make the AI so they all run in a straight line forward when you are on the attack, no player is smart enough to drop back to create space, to create separation.

This is the best example. Evra passes up the field and initiates a run straight into the guy. Very intelligent AI going on here.

Oh well, PES2011 with some tweaks isn't that bad I guess, but it is frustrating when you see the same shortcomings over and over year after year.

 

[Thespeedster84]

It is been confirmed by Chaos at gamescom i guess. The one that play MU - Milan

chaos_PES PESianity
I got good news for you, and bad news. I'll start with the bad news. Players _always_ run straight forward after a pass. Always. That (cont)

chaos_PES PESianity
Is good for attacks, but does not let you control the ball/the game for build up play. @JonMurphy_PES, is this fixed in your new code?

tbf.. why Konami do not put something like Rod, Rom, Lami played for big gaming expo ?

 

[vivek1412]

Everyone, look.

Of course the guy was holding L1 and passing.

Look at every single other video. Do CBs bomb forward when the CPU passes the ball around? Literally in a straight line EVERY time?

I know it's always silly season when videos come out, so I'm not surprised this was brought up after that video. But it's time to calm down and think clearly. Do that, and you won't even have to ask whether that guy was holding L1 when passing. It'll be blatantly obvious that he is.

I also believe that this is R1 passing, but since the CPU players are also doing the same thing, it was brought up. Maybe it has to do with the strategies that r setup for the match.
To me it can't be the way it looks, n i hope, as u say, its L1 passing only.
Bring on the next week, Demo will be dissected like in my final biology practical exam!

 

[Jamezinho]

I really despair when watching these videos. It's as if these guys are playing the opposite of Rugby - every pass has to be forward - no build-up, no patience.

As great as it is to see these videos I just get bored watching them. Ah well, demo next week.

Hope they allow you to turn off the name above the AI player. Really pisses me off.

I really don't understand Konami's decision with regard to hud and player info. Who thinks that keeping the underside of the screen next to the radar (where nothing really happens anyway) clean but then make a complete mess of the actual action by adding a shot power bar, a stamina bar and possibly 2 bloody names all across the players is a good thing!

It looks so poor, just give us the option! Was one of the reasons I found 11 difficult aswell, as I refused to have the stupid powerbar under my player, so I never really knew how much power I was placing in shots and passes. Made it feel more organic to play (as everything was about knowing my player and timing my button press), but still not the optimum situation.

Agreed. I definitely prefer the old name bars along the bottom of the screen rather than player names and power bars cluttering up the on-pitch action. It looked a lot tidier before PES2011.

 

[wabak]

Even from earlier videos released before gamescom, I have noticed that the AI has not improved like those Jon Murphy videos. Konami can show what they want in a controlled condition in those videos, but the recent batch of videos from gamescom confirms that the PES team will once again fail to deliver.

In the Milan vs ManU video, why does every player run forward after each pass? Let's assume that the player who is playing is initiating the 1-2 run, yet this again shows the flaw in PES AI where the ONLY run you can initiate are the ones perfectly straight up the field.

Where are the diagonal runs they promised? Even overlapping runs, let's assume they happen in the game, are not always straight up the sidelines as what is happening in all the footage shown thus far.

The reason those runs are just straight are b/c they are player initiated, the dummy runs/diagonal runs etc are all AI controlled, maybe the reason we never saw or notice them is b/c none of the players have held the ball for more than 2 seconds and are just passing forward as quickly as possible.

In a typical Manchester United match, with wingers like Nani running in from the outside, full backs like Rafael will oftentimes take the ball inside, and then pass to Nani who is further to the side of the pitch, and instead of running straight up the field, will actually circle back and run around behind Nani so to give him the option to dribble inside or pass outside to Rafael. This type of off the ball movement is completely absent in all of the footage.

I've seen one video with Manchester United thus far, and stuff like this will depend on how you play surely... the guy playing as Man Utd done nothing but spam the 1-2s, this is also something that will hopefully be do able when we finally get to tweak the tactics etc.

So what does Konami do? Add a useless feature to the R3 stick letting you control two players. What a sad bolt on "fix" to the severely lacking AI they promised would improve. All they have done is make the AI so they all run in a straight line forward when you are on the attack, no player is smart enough to drop back to create space, to create separation.

This is the best example. Evra passes up the field and initiates a run straight into the guy. Very intelligent AI going on here.

Oh well, PES2011 with some tweaks isn't that bad I guess, but it is frustrating when you see the same shortcomings over and over year after year.

Again, this is a PLAYER CONTROLLED RUN, you can't blame the AI for something it's being told to do time and time again.

Just wait till you play the demo before you go writing off the game, and whatever you do don't play like the guy controlling Man Utd in the video please.

 

[Gab_]

It is been confirmed by Chaos at gamescom i guess. The one that play MU - Milan

That's crazy, really hope this is just a bug that sneaked in that they will fix asap.

wabak: read some post above yours, it's not player initiated, every pass is followed by a run by the AI.

 

[Srider]

Just wait till you play the demo before you go writing off the game, and whatever you do don't play like the guy controlling Man Utd in the video please.

Sure I'll do that, just like the past few years. It's these small things that hardcore players like me have been waiting to see fixed, and it really makes me wonder what Seabass is thinking when he sees his game play like this.

The worst is when the ball is played back. Modern teams all know that against a pressuring striker, you pass the ball back but run to the side of the pitch to make room for the keeper to pass to. In PES what do they do? they run with the striker towards the keeper. I doubt this will be fixed.

It's very clear that the AI has been simplified to increase the graphical details of the game. Players are not aware of what they are doing, but they just play within the confines of the game plan set in the menu. When on offense, everyone runs forward in the straight line, etc.

We will see in a week I suppose.

 

[Lami]

It is been confirmed by Chaos at gamescom i guess. The one that play MU - Milan



tbf.. why Konami do not put something like Rod, Rom, Lami played for big gaming expo ?

I swear I'm trying to comprehend what's going on here... This doesn't make sense.

What if this has got to do with pass assistance too? Mine was turned Off the whole time. I even remember very well that I had to press L1 for players to run, apart from fullbacks, or they would just jog about looking for space.

Actually, I switched Off all the player assistance options.

 

[wabak]

Did you play the GS build Lami? or the one before it?

If the demo is the one you and Rom/Rod played then possibly we won't notice this issue as it hasn't been created yet... god I hope not :/ lol

Srider, I've got no clue how after you watching these videos you can think the AI has been simplified, some of the moves the CPU make are incredible, and something you'd never see in PES 2011.

 

[Lami]

Did you play the GS build Lami? or the one before it?

If the demo is the one you and Rom/Rod played then possibly we won't notice this issue as it hasn't been created yet... god I hope not :/ lol

Srider, I've got no clue how after you watching these videos you can think the AI has been simplified, some of the moves the CPU make are incredible, and something you'd never see in PES 2011.

Not the gamescom build no. I think he said it was E3.

 

[Gab_]

Since it happens to CPU AI too, I can only think of it being something to do with tactics. Like a bug that make the teams play all out attack or something.

 

[Srider]

Did you play the GS build Lami? or the one before it?

If the demo is the one you and Rom/Rod played then possibly we won't notice this issue as it hasn't been created yet... god I hope not :/ lol

Srider, I've got no clue how after you watching these videos you can think the AI has been simplified, some of the moves the CPU make are incredible, and something you'd never see in PES 2011.

Are you talking about the 1P CPU? or the player teammate AI?
I can't judge the 1P CPU cause it has to do with the player not playing defense well, but the player teammate AI is definitely not improved except for them all running straight forward all the time.

 

[vivek1412]

I swear I'm trying to comprehend what's going on here... This doesn't make sense.

What if this has got to do with pass assistance too? Mine was turned Off the whole time. I even remember very well that I had to press L1 for players to run, apart from fullbacks, or they would just jog about looking for space.

Actually, I switched Off all the player assistance options.

yes, this is what i believe could be the reason, it should be about the tactical setup these players are using, or other settings that you have mentioned.

 

[wabak]

Are you talking about the 1P CPU? or the player teammate AI?
I can't judge the 1P CPU cause it has to do with the player not playing defense well, but the player teammate AI is definitely not improved except for them all running straight forward all the time.

The CPU controlled AI, now I know that wasn't what you were on about.

These videos apparently don't showcase the game well, and I trust Roms/Rods/Lami's views a lot more than anything a random video will show me... and apparently the AI is greatly improved.

Just got to wait on the demo I suppose.

 

[Lami]

yes, this is what i believe could be the reason, it should be about the tactical setup these players are using, or other settings that you have mentioned.

The obvious reasons would be either L1 button or very offensive strategy. The first is out of the question since the cpu does it as well, and the second is an option but can't be that every team we've seen are set to the same offensive strategies. That's why I'm thinking maybe pass assistance has to do with it, even though its purpose is to determine the level of AI assistance you get for power of the pass.

Or, maybe Konami have done something, and I hope not.

 

[Srider]

yes, this is what i believe could be the reason, it should be about the tactical setup these players are using, or other settings that you have mentioned.

It would be surprising if the people who are playing in ALL the videos released so far using various teams ALL decided to go full out attack.

Even if that is what they happened to do, it just goes to show how bad the attacking AI is. Watching the Barca vs Bayern match, at around the 1;43 mark, it is amazing that Iniesta AI would initiate a forward run not only to the opposing team player, but to two other Barca players bunched up together.

Players bunching up was a problem in PES2011, and it's in all these videos so far. Unless you play a ping pong passing game all the way to the finish, a slow build up play just ends up being half of your team bunched up in the box, with your midfielder isolated. This seems to be what's happening in 2012 as well.

 

[Rodelero]

The CPU controlled AI, now I know that wasn't what you were on about.

These videos apparently don't showcase the game well, and I trust Roms/Rods/Lami's views a lot more than anything a random video will show me... and apparently the AI is greatly improved.

Just got to wait on the demo I suppose.

Well, if it's changed it's changed. This definitely wasn't the case in what we played - but things do change for the worse between builds sometimes. We just have to hope that it's sorted for the final build (we should know this fairly soon). Fingers crossed, because this one particular issue will screw up a lot of really good stuff if not resolved.

I'm pretty confident it will all be alright in the end, just me nerves is all. I think it's just a bug. It almost seems, on the videos it happens on, like the LB button is constantly held down for every pass. That's surely not intended.

 

[Ern Dog]

I dont like the way the ai plays like your average oonline idot. Hopefully it is just playing this way because the guy playing also plays like your average online idiot and leaves acres of space to exploit.

 

[Thespeedster84]

It would be surprising if the people who are playing in ALL the videos released so far using various teams ALL decided to go full out attack.

Even if that is what they happened to do, it just goes to show how bad the attacking AI is. Watching the Barca vs Bayern match, at around the 1;43 mark, it is amazing that Iniesta AI would initiate a forward run not only to the opposing team player, but to two other Barca players bunched up together.

Players bunching up was a problem in PES2011, and it's in all these videos so far. Unless you play a ping pong passing game all the way to the finish, a slow build up play just ends up being half of your team bunched up in the box, with your midfielder isolated. This seems to be what's happening in 2012 as well.

Agree, based on video so far it is done in more fluid way . To certain extent that happen in this video is what i would like to get fixed by Konami based on their 2011 version

Players either team mate ai or cpu's team mate ai movement is actually aware of contextual position of other player. and not ony run forward after pass but has variety of pace in more variety directions

 

[Ern Dog]

Players bunching up was a problem in PES2011, and it's in all these videos so far. Unless you play a ping pong passing game all the way to the finish, a slow build up play just ends up being half of your team bunched up in the box, with your midfielder isolated. This seems to be what's happening in 2012 as well.

I never had this problem, you get this with every team no matter what formation and tactics you use?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Honest, after reading back a few pages, it's comical. Some folk need to go sit in the corner and give their head a shake, trying to judge PES 2012 based on video's captured at the hands of morons is way beyond laughable. We have had three fantastic playtests by respected members, that is all I need. Some people are creating issues where none will exist, it's not rocket science.