• Major upgrades completed! Please report any issues you spot in here

PES 2011 Discussion thread

klashman69 said:
When it comes to Messi on thsi game thre some things which i find very strange. He's the cover star but for some reason Konami have put much more effort into other players it seems.

His unique dribbling animation is still in but because the preset one he's been given dosen't suit him (he's too crouched when running) he just looks odd.

Konami need to update the current OF or database and make sure he's given another movement set, one he's standing up more. He has great balance and there are animations in this game to greatly reflect his movements but he's currently using the wrong ones!

Also about the player runs! I don't see an issue here. It's all about the player.With fifa you just tap a button and the nearest player sprints forward immediately. tap it 5-6 times half your team runs forward. Since the game is all aboutcounters and lighting fast play with need to set up your team you get used to it. People are having a hard time adapting and learning to spot runs!

That's not what PES is about! You need to use your footballing brain and look fro runs ahead, probe and conserve possession until a opportunity arrives. PES isn't Attack, attack, attack fast like FIFA. You need to build attacks properly!

The videos fenadez has uploaded show me that really he needs to forget about just waiting for one player to make a run, instead he should look around at all his teammates to probe.
Click to expand...

those videos have nothing to do with my footballing brain, building up attacks or probing, if theres space for the lb to move into he's gonna do it at any level of the game from park to professional. in the situations i have uploaded, the game is forcing me to come back inside and play a different ball then the one i wanted to. especially if im hitting a team on the break from a corner for example, why am i then gonna start looking for a inwards, backwards pass, i want to overload the opposition where they are weak. the video with the st is the same, why is he shuffling along, theres no danger of being offside, so make a run towards the goal.

no one is talking about 5-6 taps and having your whole team bomb forward, were talking about incisive, well chosen runs that enable deeper attacking play. i'll maintain possession along the back line and in midfield, but when i want to speed up the attack or switch it after sucking in the other team, i should be able to. how often are gareth bale or ashley cole on of the furthest men forward during a game without having touched the ball, at spurs we'll be knocking it about in the middle the huddlestone will just ping a pass 45 yards to bale who would have pushed up becuase everyone has shuffled across.

edit: also saying the L1 button is unrealistic is not strictly true, as the ball holder in a real life game, there a numerous times where u can dictate where u want your players to go, tell someone to get down the line, hold it a second longer for your striker to make a second run, i agree that online it probably gets exploited (i havent really played it), but the idea behind it is no more outlandish then being able to press it once you have made a pass.
 
Last edited:
Cannot wait for this demo now after reading all these comments.

Lucky none of you are official reviewers for the game mind. 100's all round.
 
Expander said:
I know what your saying jimmy and its still a top game,but,by default your teamate ai should still adhere to basic rudamentry off the ball behaviour,irrespective of player cards and tactics.

Im not just talking about forward runs,im talking about support,making space,moving away from the opposition player to give you a option,filling gaps,reading danger and reacting intelligently to the ebb and flow of the game,not just reacting to the ball when it falls into there zone and triggers that said players ai.

Its only something you really notice after playing alot of fifa jimmy and unfortunetly pes2011 is still along way behind fifa in this regard.You also have a lot of tatical depth in fifa to and can tweak your stratergy,after all ea did create the slider system,however even in a standard default setting the ai in fifa is still way ahead of pes2011.Without blowing my trumpet this is my field of work ai,and the differences are huge.
Click to expand...

Just shows your lack of knowledge of pes 2010/2011. Pes is not a plug and play game.you have make your football brain work.. And i doubt if u .. Ahem.
 
All this chat concerning overlapping runs is interesting.

Personally I prefer the Beta method whereby the effectiveness of the SB and SMF are stats driven. In the beta Pienaar pushed more into the wide areas than Diamanti my formation, my tactic but different intepretation based on the players stats. Sure I want to "tell" Diamanti to push up but I would worry if I he was as effective as Pienaar it's not what PES is about.
 
romagnoli said:
Situations like that CAN happen at anytime, yes. Why does that validate pressing a button to make people run on command? Why not use what is already there in the tactics to produce the same effect in a more natural, individualistic way? Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it, completely eliminating a massive part of the game (how likely a player is to go on runs)? What good would the marauding or goalpoaching player cards be if you could do exactly the same by pressing a button?

It's only about freedom in the way that making every player identical gives you freedom to do whatever you want with whoever you want. Being able to set your team up to make runs is exactly the same amount of freedom but without ruining a fundamental part of the game by infecting PES with the same, always forward never back, attacking patterns you see in FIFA.
Click to expand...

Surely a system without it only works if the AI players make those runs.
 
klashman69 said:
When it comes to Messi on this game there are some things which i find very strange. He's the cover star but for some reason Konami have put much more effort into other players it seems.

His unique dribbling animation is still in but because the preset one he's been given dosen't suit him (he's too crouched when running) he just looks odd.

Konami need to update the current OF or database and make sure he's given another movement set, one he's standing up more. He has great balance and there are animations in this game to greatly reflect his movements but he's currently using the wrong ones!

Also about the player runs! I don't see an issue here. It's all about the player. With fifa you just tap a button and the nearest player sprints forward immediately. tap it 5-6 times half your team runs forward. Since the game is all about counters and lighting fast play with need to set up your team you get used to it. People are having a hard time adapting and learning to spot runs!

That's not what PES is about! You need to use your footballing brain and look for runs ahead, probe and conserve possession until a opportunity arrives. PES isn't Attack, attack, attack fast like FIFA. You need to build attacks properly!

The videos fenadez has uploaded show me that really he needs to forget about just waiting for one player to make a run, instead he should look around at all his teammates to probe.
Click to expand...



Pes2011 is still fast paced and arcady irrespective of the new passing system and theres certainly more to fifas bow then simple,attack,attack.You have the freeom to play fifa how you want and can easily counter the sprint whores and those that just blaze forward by commanding the space there trying to move into.

Ive lost count already how many times in the pes2011 demo my players just let balls run out of play because they react to late or let simple loose balls in the six yard box bounce off them into the goal or into the path of a incoming forward.Defending is still to clunky and laboured and your easily split regardless with a through ball because the opposition player will always get in front of your defender because he will just stop mid stide.

Most of the goals look over the top and a tad unrealistic,plus,pes2011 still in alot of ways has that clunkyness of pes200/2009/2010 entrenched and after a couple of days you start to notice the same core problems that have plaqued the ai since pes2008.

I might be one of the first to say it but wait until the final games been released and watch these threads fill up with people moaning about the same basic problems.

Ive also been playing digital football for 20 years and watching games for near on 30 years so understand how to play football.However much more freedom you do have of the control mechanics of pes2011 its still bogged down with sub standard AI.

Not once playing the pes2011 demo have i felt like its a living breathing fluid game nor have i had that feeling that pes on the ps2 or iss on the n64 gave me,its still devoid of live,feels very artificial and you still dont get a massive sense that your team has a real desire to win.
 
Last edited:
fernadez said:
those videos have nothing to do with my footballing brain, building up attacks or probing, if theres space for the lb to move into he's gonna do it at any level of the game from park to professional. in the situations i have uploaded, the game is forcing me to come back inside and play a different ball then the one i wanted to.
Click to expand...

No, what struck me was you were basing you whole attack on that one guy (full back) going forward! If he's not going to run ahead, don't hesitate to look for other options! Maybe the full back didn't feel his position was covered if he made a forward run or maybe he was just being stubborn and holding position. Make sure you play with the tactics to the full. If you set player runs to 18-20 it should affect the full backs a lot more than other players.

no one is talking about 5-6 taps and having your whole team bomb forward, were talking about incisive, well chosen runs that enable deeper attacking play. i'll maintain possession along the back line and in midfield, but when i want to speed up the attack or switch it after sucking in the other team, i should be able to. how often are gareth bale or ashley cole on of the furthest men forward during a game without having touched the ball, at spurs we'll be knocking it about in the middle the huddlestone will just ping a pass 45 yards to bale who would have pushed up because everyone has shuffled across.
Click to expand...

You've set at attacking style to out wide man? With Internacional i've noticed Nei is a lot more attacking minded compared to Kleber! So i would use him if attacking down the wings. Also i see your a scum fan (I'm a gooner :P) so you like my brother adore Garth Bale and his barnstorming runs forward. i assure you that players like him will do this 24/7 due to his card settings and Ashley c*** will do aswell but with certain players (Badstuber) You can't play the way you want with players who don't suit you style of play.

One of the things you got used to with fifa like we all did was playing the way you wanted to with any team, PES is a different game in this respect :) You can play in that style in PES (Flying wingbacks) but on the Demo on Barca are effective at doing it (alves, Maxwell) :)

I always try to play to my players strengths rather than play a certain way i like to :)

edit: also saying the L1 button is unrealistic is not strictly true, as the ball holder in a real life game, there a numerous times where u can dictate where u want your players to go, tell someone to get down the line, hold it a second longer for your striker to make a second run, i agree that online it probably gets exploited (i havent really played it), but the idea behind it is no more outlandish then being able to press it once you have made a pass.
Click to expand...

I agree in the sense I'd love to see Xavi pointing while on the ball for players to make runs, just don't believe FIFA's system is the best method. Or maybe it is, but the game just dosen't show it well! Anyway i can live without it for now and I'm sure you will learn to live without it to. :)

I love debates like this:COOL:
 
Also there is no issue with asking Jamie Carragher to bomb forward or Glen Johnson. Where the issue is if both this players are just as effective and as quick going forward. I mean its not as if when Liverpool have JC playing RB he never gets beyond the Halfway line.
 
there are cards for overlaping run guys.just see which player got those and keep him in mind the forward through if he is in suitable place.if i remember deni alves had that card in pes10

Just remember a through pass wont work all the time like pes 2009 . For good through ball your position the players ability to give good through pass ,games situation , the forward runners situation free space in front and his ability have to match for the sweet run.and obviously the timing is of utmost important to evade offside.. ! so lifelike!
 
Last edited:
klashman69 said:
I always try to play to my players strengths rather than play a certain way i like to :)
Click to expand...



Technically this is what managers have to do in real life - sure they would wan't the players to play their style of football but you are limited to what certain players can do - so you have to play to their strengths.

As much as I like to try and play my own way (and I can in FIFA because all players feel the same) I'm looking forward to having to play to each players individual strengths and trying to find a gameplan that works for me as well
 
klashman69 said:
No, what struck me was you were basing you whole attack on that one guy (full back) going forward! If he's not going to run ahead, don't hesitate to look for other options! Maybe the full back didn't feel his position was covered if he made a forward run or maybe he was just being stubborn and holding position. Make sure you play with the tactics to the full. If you set player runs to 18-20 it should affect the full backs a lot more than other players.



You've set at attacking style to out wide man? With Internacional i've noticed Nei is a lot more attacking minded compared to Kleber! So i would use him if attacking down the wings. Also i see your a scum fan (I'm a gooner :P) so you like my brother adore Garth Bale and his barnstorming runs forward. i assure you that players like him will do this 24/7 due to his card settings and Ashley c*** will do aswell but with certain players (Badstuber) You can't play the way you want with players who don't suit you style of play.

One of the things you got used to with fifa like we all did was playing the way you wanted to with any team, PES is a different game in this respect :) You can play in that style in PES (Flying wingbacks) but on the Demo on Barca are effective at doing it (alves, Maxwell) :)

I always try to play to my players strengths rather than play a certain way i like to :)



I agree in the sense I'd love to see Xavi pointing while on the ball for players to make runs, just don't believe FIFA's system is the best method. Or maybe it is, but the game just dosen't show it well! Anyway i can live without it for now and I'm sure you will learn to live without it to. :)

I love debates like this:COOL:
Click to expand...

Ok, i was not basing the whole attack on my sb, but the fact is that he was in the best postion to expliot the opposition the infield was more congested even though there were options to pass inside, if that was a real life game and the sb done that, the player with the ball, the fans and the manager would all be saying what are u doing get down the line into the position of maximum opportunity.

the situations im highlighting are nothing to do with flying wingbacks or fast strikers.

if this is all down to not being able to set the cards then fine, but i still dont think what i am others are highlighting should be needing them. as someone who likes to play a passing game and rely on runs from deep and overlapping etc, the ability of the cpu to do them (either manually or automated) is vital.
 
liger05 said:
Also there is no issue with asking Jamie Carragher to bomb forward or Glen Johnson. Where the issue is if both this players are just as effective and as quick going forward. I mean its not as if when Liverpool have JC playing RB he never gets beyond the Halfway line.
Click to expand...

i was gonna just write something like this, even corluka, how runs with gravel boots saunters forward when theres a bit of real estate for him to get into. im also struggling to understand why people keep talking about footballing brains, when in fact the situations being brought up are because the game is not letting people express thier footballing brain. the video i posted of the striker for example, i want to play a ball over the top before the rb covers, my striker on the other hand wants to pick his nose and look at me, what am i meant to do, turn back and start probing?
 
Playing to your players strengths and weaknesses in PES is all I been banging on about for the last 2 years, that is the only way to play PES if you want to truly feel its beauty. Thats why ML and MLO are pure gold in my opinion. The only real problem I have at the minute is every 10 minute game seems to last about half an hour. I'm constantly pausing the game to watch, passes, AI movement, feints, first touches, flicks, shots, headers, everything.

A massive plus point this year is the set-pieces, especially corners, or free-kicks that are delivered into the area. The real sense of a drilled swerved ball in, is as good as I have ever seen, or felt. Real purchase on the delivery, and very dangerous in the right hands. I commented about this on the MLO beta, but they have took it a step further on this demo, I love it, it feels sooooooo realistic.
 
Wow, just scored certainly my best goal on the demo so far, was so delighted with it xD I recorded the replays of it, had my camera ready for any decent footage, I'm uploading it to youtube now, Omar Bravo did a backheel through ball and I first time chipped it over the keeper into the corner of the net, WHAT A PEACH (as I said on the video lol)

YouTube - PES2011 Demo - Riveron (Deportivo Guadalajara) vs SC Internacional

I'm in love with this game already, pes2010 didn't give me this much satisfaction when I scored and I don't think I can go back to pes2010 again :) I'm addicted.
 
Last edited:
Expander said:
Pes2011 is still fast paced and arcady irrespective of the new passing system and theres certainly more to fifas bow then simple,attack,attack.You have the freeom to play fifa how you want and can easily counter the sprint whores and those that just blaze forward by commanding the space there trying to move into.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see a video of anyone being able to successful beat on FIFA or the world cup game a abusive player who used high pressure and a 6-0-4 like formation. Playing proper football and not abusing the game! In fact message Danny Taylor one of those 'elite' fifa players and try and beat him playing that way vs his abusive formations! The fact that 6-0-4 works SO well (especially for players who know the game) and you can't beat them without basically doing the same thing shows how poor the game really is for me.

I think the 'sprint whores' you talk about are simply players who aren't very good! No every player is a abuser on FIFA games, most of these players you seem to be categorizing are just average players who play the game it's set out to be played.

As for pes being arcadey and fast :CONFUSE::CONFUSE::CONFUSE: seriously :CONFUSE: I mean the R1 Sprint button is useless and I'm still learning how to use it. Way WAY beyond FIFA where with a fast player as long as you don't meet a strong center back who rugby tackles you out of the way and you know how to use the trick stick i've beaten 4-5 with ease with even slow players!

Ive lost count already how many times in the pes2011 demo my players just let balls run out of play because they react to late or let simple loose balls in the six yard box bounce off them into the goal or into the path of a incoming forward.Defending is still to clunky and laboured and your easily split regardless with a through ball because the opposition player will always get in front of your defender because he will just stop mid stide.
Click to expand...

Thats not chunky and poor mechanics that's just normal human reactions. FIFA is far too slick and silky smooth and every player has perfect first touches, seemingly weigh nothing at all and glides across the pitch irrespective tot heir body position and inertia. For a simulation player lie me there's just little or nothing there in basics and fundamentals. The whole, turning like lighting, not having to worry about balance dosen't concern gamers! Why, because when you play a game YOU WANT instant reactions! You want everything to be fluid you want to win and do what you want.

Problem is on FIFA players don't adhere much to the laws of physics at all! Interesting for me on PES when you over hit a pass in terms of power the recipient takes a heavy touch and has a hard time controlling it. On fifa as a manual player even when you over hit passes, control is instant!

Most of the goals look over the top and a tad unrealistic
Click to expand...

Most of the goals i've seen look very realistic and vary greatly (goals i've scored and conceded. You can't judge teh game on the video upload of people uploading freak goals. Also every game isn't perfect,t his demo certainly isn't.

,plus,pes2011 still in alot of ways has that clunkyness of pes200/2009/2010 entrenched and after a couple of days you start to notice the same core problems that have plaqued the ai since pes2008.
Click to expand...

There's quite a few left in from those games but for me they don't hurt the fluidity at all for me. I love the balance of this game, it's not FIFA 10 where it's all to silky smooth and repetitive!

I might be one of the first to say it but wait until the final games been released and watch these threads fill up with people moaning about the same basic problems.
Click to expand...

The demo is A final code but it's still pretty old (Henry still at Barca) :CONFUSE: I'm sure the full release will be a lot better even if it's just the same as the demo but with hardly any bugs, glitches and few more animations here and there.

Ive also been playing digital football for 20 years and watching games for near on 30 years so understand how to play football.However much more freedom you do have of the control mechanics of pes2011 its still bogged down with sub standard AI.
Click to expand...

I think in your view you feel fifa is better because you as someone who works in that area regarding AI. You marvel at how fast, fluid and free fifa feels, but i don't feel you look at fifa in terms of how realsitic it is. I Highly disagree with this (Your free to play realistically) thing. I tried this theory myself but the game is just not very deep! Too shallow for me. Every trying to play realistically you still end up playing the same way with every player and scoring the same goals!
Not once playing the pes2011 demo have i felt like its a living breathing fluid game nor have i had that feeling that pes on the ps2 or iss on the n64 gave me,its still devoid of live,feels very artificial and you still dont get a massive sense that your team has a real desire to win.
Click to expand...

I feel the opposite!
 
Don't see the problem with FIFA's system of having the ability to tell players to make a run - more options = more freedom = more creative play. It's like saying FIFA should get rid of one-touch passing because it can lead to ping-pong passing. No, the answer is (theoretically) make first-touch passing less effective by implementing Pro Passing, so you have to learn when and when not to use it.

Teammate AI in PES is far more intelligent than in FIFA, imo, but we're a far ways off from having AI that is perfect, so it's nice having options like the LB off-the-ball run in FIFA to fill the void.

Good points made on both sides of the discussion, but I have to throw my hat in on the side for more control/options, as long as spamming said options isn't an effective, and unrealistic, strategy.
 
liger05 said:
Also there is no issue with asking Jamie Carragher to bomb forward or Glen Johnson. Where the issue is if both this players are just as effective and as quick going forward. I mean its not as if when Liverpool have JC playing RB he never gets beyond the Halfway line.
Click to expand...

Ok, yeah that makes sense :)
 
Dont wanna turn this into a FIFA discussion but I watched that gameplay video someone posted of FIFA 11, it just looks like FIFA10 to me.

Last year I bought FIFA10 and PES2010, this time around I know where my money is going, and it wont be to EA. Really hope Konami get rewarded for this game, its bloody marvellous.
 
Last edited:
Simcut said:
Dont wanna turn this into a FIFA discussion but I watched that gameplay video someone posted of FIFA 11, it just has the same look of FIFA10 :S
Click to expand...

i second that ! and personality plus with rooney shouting with rage :D Epic fail in copying individuality in PES :SMUG:! in PES , individuality is the base of the engine. and Personality+ , doesn't it look inappropriate ?
 
Last edited:
Simcut said:
Wow, just scored certainly my best goal on the demo so far, was so delighted with it xD I recorded the replays of it, had my camera ready for any decent footage, I'm uploading it to youtube now, Omar Bravo did a backheel through ball and I first time chipped it over the keeper into the corner of the net, WHAT A PEACH (as I said on the video lol)

YouTube - PES2011 Demo - Riveron (Deportivo Guadalajara) vs SC Internacional

I'm in love with this game already, pes2010 didn't give me this much satisfaction when I scored and I don't think I can go back to pes2010 again :) I'm addicted.
Click to expand...

No words!

SoccerPC_ said:
i second that ! and personality plus with rooney shouting with rage :D Epic fail in copying individuality in PES :SMUG:! in PES , individuality is the base of the engine. and Personality+ , doesn't it look inappropriate ?
Click to expand...

But your a prize troll?:BYE:

You were that guy pissing everyone off on the FIFA PC forum!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom