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PES 2011 Discussion thread

Rob92 said:
Could anyone help me out - I'm wondering how I should go about getting PES 2011 (Xbox 360) :).

The last couple of years, supermarkets have been selling FIFA (among other popular games) for £25 or less on release day - has the same thing happened with PES? (I havn't even considered buying it since PES6!)

Are there any sites doing cheap pre-orders?

Any help appreciated :).

The game is looking superb imo, just from watching the videos I can tell I will like it :). The variety of goals and some of the passing moves are a breath of fresh air after having played FIFA for a few years.
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Its the same deal as Fifa Rob, or at least it was last year. Most supermarkets had it for £26, I expect it to be the same this year.
 
goalgerd said:
just checked the number of created teams needed for a new pro evo file,there will be 4 champions league teams to add and 18 europa teams to add

im thinking now i wont add full bundesliga to my new file and add all the europa league teams instead, really want to add championship teams with also couple of scottish ,irish and n irish thrown in to division 2.
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4 teams? Žilina, Partizan, Hapoel and which other? :CONFUSE:
 
I heard 'Tottenham were joining Man Utd in being licensed.' Does this mean that Liverpool are no longer licensed?
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Its the same deal as Fifa Rob, or at least it was last year. Most supermarkets had it for £26, I expect it to be the same this year.
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Cool, thanks :).

Oh and by the way, your video was great to watch, showed off some realistic aspects of the game and like kevano, I particularly enjoyed the diagonal long ball :).
 
Rob92 said:
Cool, thanks :).

Oh and by the way, your video was great to watch, showed off some realistic aspects of the game and like kevano, I particularly enjoyed the diagonal long ball :).
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Cheers Rob, it's always the little touches that are the most magical for me, it demonstrates a real understanding of the fundementals. That chest control on the run with R2 and a left stick direction, may not look very spectacular, but it put a huge smile on my face. :)

After being off work for 2 days hammering the demo, I'm back at work today and it's killing me already. I have just made another video with all the clips I have captured so far combined. It's rendering at the minute, but once it's complete and I've added my music, I'll whack it up.


Edit - Fuck this, I'm taking an extended lunch hour. ( Meaning, I'm driving home for a few games). :)
 
danyjr said:
I can see your point definitely, and I agree with it to a certain degree but you can't say L1 trigger run button is unrealistic, because situations like that can potentially happen in football all the time. If anything it gives you more freedom.
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Situations like that CAN happen at anytime, yes. Why does that validate pressing a button to make people run on command? Why not use what is already there in the tactics to produce the same effect in a more natural, individualistic way? Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it, completely eliminating a massive part of the game (how likely a player is to go on runs)? What good would the marauding or goalpoaching player cards be if you could do exactly the same by pressing a button?

It's only about freedom in the way that making every player identical gives you freedom to do whatever you want with whoever you want. Being able to set your team up to make runs is exactly the same amount of freedom but without ruining a fundamental part of the game by infecting PES with the same, always forward never back, attacking patterns you see in FIFA.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Very true. I'm really keen to hear peoples reactions and views to the Teamvision 2 system that is in the offline ML. It is really clever, and those who pass it off as just some marketing buzz word are being very ignorant to some very clever programming.
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In ML if youre top of the league and in the cup challenge the AI will cgo nuts...ML is where the AI is not any other mode...
 
romagnoli said:
Situations like that CAN happen at anytime, yes. Why does that validate pressing a button to make people run on command? Why not use what is already there in the tactics to produce the same effect in a more natural, individualistic way? Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it, completely eliminating a massive part of the game (how likely a player is to go on runs)? What good would the marauding or goalpoaching player cards be if you could do exactly the same by pressing a button?

It's only about freedom in the way that making every player identical gives you freedom to do whatever you want with whoever you want. Being able to set your team up to make runs is exactly the same amount of freedom but without ruining a fundamental part of the game by infecting PES with the same, always forward never back, attacking patterns you see in FIFA.
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The obvious reason for an L1 button is because AI is not good enough to do it with the precision as a human. On the other hand it does kind of hide poor AI
 
romagnoli said:
Situations like that CAN happen at anytime, yes. Why does that validate pressing a button to make people run on command? Why not use what is already there in the tactics to produce the same effect in a more natural, individualistic way? Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it, completely eliminating a massive part of the game (how likely a player is to go on runs)? What good would the marauding or goalpoaching player cards be if you could do exactly the same by pressing a button?

It's only about freedom in the way that making every player identical gives you freedom to do whatever you want with whoever you want. Being able to set your team up to make runs is exactly the same amount of freedom but without ruining a fundamental part of the game by infecting PES with the same, always forward never back, attacking patterns you see in FIFA.
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This is one of those debatable subjects. I can definitely see your point, but then again, it doesn't make run triggers unrealistic imo. What you describe as FIFA's flawed attacking pattern, is not due to the fact that you have triggering runs. It is due to the fact that triggering runs usually go unpunished because of an unrealistic fatigue/stamina system, and also because midfield play is non-existent in a game like FIFA.

I've bolded(!) a part of your quote above: "Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it". This is very debatable. I can respond to that by saying, it gives me more freedom. This is an advantage put into my own hands rather than in the hands of AI. It is MY decision to trigger runs. Whether it is BENEFICIAL to send Tymoshchuk in the 6 yard box is the subject that should be debated.

And yes beta63 I played the demo at my brother's yesterday.
 
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fernadez said:
its nothing to do with me holding down sprint, all these situations i am referring to are when i have the ball behind the player i want to run, or at most parallel but stationary. if i pass it across the pitch and it ends up with my left sided midfielder, i would expect my LB to push forward if there is space to do so down the line. again if i have it with my lb i would expect (not always btw) my LM to make a run forward. lastly i still feel that the forwards are not making the runs they should be, if i dont pass it when they make thier initial jog forward they stop. i played a cross field ball last night fro my RB to my ST, he jogged forward, turned sideways and shuffled for a bit and the decided to try get onto it again, there was no danger of him being offide at.

also i played the game on 2 player yesterday with my friend who i've been playing games with since snes, within a couple of mins he asked me, 'whats the button to make your player make a run off the ball' and also 'how do u flick it out of your feet, like in fifa'.

we both enjoyed it alot, there was the old banter, watching replays, pretending not to be upset when the other scored etc, but we both highlighted the same points that were missing, but i understand that this may all be down to the card system not being selectable, which is something i do not have any experience with.
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fernandez - triggering player runs: http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2055007&postcount=256. You can't abuse it in the same way as FIFA, because you have to plan ahead and think about which players you want to push forward. Overusing it will not lead to good results and will likely pull players out of position in the event of a counter. It adds to the realism IMO, it was simply awful how overused it was in FIFA.

By flicking it out of your feet, do you mean stopping and flicking the ball forward slightly? If you do, it's not :l1:+:r1: like it was last year, in PES 2011 it's in the trick menu. Set it up for one of the directions on your right stick. Or, if you just mean knocking the ball far ahead as you run, hold :r1: for your normal run and then ALSO press :r2: and point to where you want to knock it.
 
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romagnoli said:
Situations like that CAN happen at anytime, yes. Why does that validate pressing a button to make people run on command? Why not use what is already there in the tactics to produce the same effect in a more natural, individualistic way? Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it, completely eliminating a massive part of the game (how likely a player is to go on runs)? What good would the marauding or goalpoaching player cards be if you could do exactly the same by pressing a button?

It's only about freedom in the way that making every player identical gives you freedom to do whatever you want with whoever you want. Being able to set your team up to make runs is exactly the same amount of freedom but without ruining a fundamental part of the game by infecting PES with the same, always forward never back, attacking patterns you see in FIFA.
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Rodelero said:
The obvious reason for an L1 button is because AI is not good enough to do it with the precision as a human. On the other hand it does kind of hide poor AI
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danyjr said:
This is one of those debatable subjects. I can definitely see your point, but then again, it doesn't make run triggers unrealistic imo. What you describe as FIFA's flawed attacking pattern, is not due to the fact that you have triggering runs. It is due to the fact that triggering runs usually go unpunished because of an unrealistic fatigue/stamina system, and also because midfield play is non-existent in a game like FIFA.

I've bolded(!) a part of your quote above: "Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it". This is very debatable. I can respond to that by saying, it gives me more freedom. This is an advantage put into my own hands rather than in the hands of AI. It is MY decision to trigger runs. Whether it is BENEFICIAL to send Tymoshchuk in the 6 yard box is the subject that should be debated.

And yes I played the demo at my brother's yesterday.
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In my honest opinion, I think EA implemented the player run trigger with the intention of giving you that freedom of control. Therefore, not only are you in control of the player you have selected, but how your teammates respond. However, where it backfires is that in most situations you are forced to use the run trigger in order to get any movement whatsoever out of your AI teammates. This in turn has led to people over-using it as part of their normal gameplan. If they improved the AI and player positioning on the pitch, you wouldn't need to use it that often.
 
mjsmith2k said:
In my honest opinion, I think EA implemented the player run trigger with the intention of giving you that freedom of control. Therefore, not only are you in control of the player you have selected, but how your teammates respond. However, where it backfires is that in most situations you are forced to use the run trigger in order to get any movement whatsoever out of your AI teammates. This in turn has led to people over-using it as part of their normal gameplan. If they improved the AI and player positioning on the pitch, you wouldn't need to use it that often.
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Overusing is not a problem, the problem is when these type of behaviour goes unpunished. I've played FIFA enough to know all its flaws, such as pressure abuse and weird custom formations, and my response to those complaining has always been the same: You should be ABLE to overuse run trigger, you should be ABLE to have a custom formation of 6-0-4, because that is the basic of freedom. Most people think these are problems, because they CAUSE problems. But that is due to the game itself being flawed. It is okay for me if my opposition to use 6-0-4, but it is not okay for me if such an unrealistic formation works so well.
 
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yeah im aware of using L1 to make my passing player run. personally i think the way EA done it was good, i dont abuse it, having my cb's bombing forward, its just that the A1 simply does not make moves that it should do irrespective of tactics or not. if there is 40 yards of space in front of a full back and im controlling a dm i dont think its unreasonable to expect him to step forward at least a few yards (im talking even before we have crossed the half way line).

i feel that the game is making me contain my play, which shouldn't be the case, if i want to play on the counter attack with a narrow midfield and my full backs providing my width i should be able to. i should be able to hold onto the ball in midfield, draw the opp in, then my Sb should be off forcing the issue, which is what i would use L1 for in fifa.

the funny thing is i never remember this being a problem at all before with pro, and i think this may be due the ability to set the arrows.

in regards to the flicking the ball out of from the feet, i meant when i've stopped the defender dead and in fifa you could just flick the right stick in the direction and knock it and run onto it, aaron lennon style.

edit: looking at somem players i see alves has a card for marauding run, maybe this is the new solutioin, or would be if i knew how to set these.
 
fernadez said:
yeah im aware of using L1 to make my passing player run. personally i think the way EA done it was good, i dont abuse it, having my cb's bombing forward, its just that the A1 simply does not make moves that it should do irrespective of tactics or not. if there is 40 yards of space in front of a full back and im controlling a dm i dont think its unreasonable to expect him to step forward at least a few yards (im talking even before we have crossed the half way line).

i feel that the game is making me contain my play, which shouldn't be the case, if i want to play on the counter attack with a narrow midfield and my full backs providing my width i should be able to. i should be able to hold onto the ball in midfield, draw the opp in, then my Sb should be off forcing the issue, which is what i would use L1 for in fifa.

the funny thing is i never remember this being a problem at all before with pro, and i think this may be due the ability to set the arrows.

in regards to the flicking the ball out of from the feet, i meant when i've stopped the defender dead and in fifa you could just flick the right stick in the direction and knock it and run onto it, aaron lennon style.

edit: looking at somem players i see alves has a card for marauding run, maybe this is the new solutioin, or would be if i knew how to set these.
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In that case hold :r1: then press :r2: and point (at the same time) in the direction you want to flick it. It is really a running knock-ahead, but I use it for wrong footing players sometimes.
 
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danyjr said:
Overusing is not a problem, the problem is when these type of behaviour goes unpunished. I've played FIFA enough to know all its flaws, such as pressure abuse and weird custom formations, and my response to those complaining has always been the same: You should be ABLE to overuse run trigger, you should be ABLE to have a custom formation of 6-0-4, because that is the basic of freedom. Most people think these are problems, because they CAUSE problems. But that is due to the game itself being flawed. It is okay for me if my opposition to use 6-0-4, but it is not okay for me if such an unrealistic formation works so well.
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I agree this type of behaviour should be punished, but it is definitely overused if the game forces you play in that way to get the best results. I hardly ever use it in PES, only when it's necessary. In FIFA I'm compelled to use it to create space on the pitch for a pass.
 
danyjr said:
This is one of those debatable subjects. I can definitely see your point, but then again, it doesn't make run triggers unrealistic imo. What you describe as FIFA's flawed attacking pattern, is not due to the fact that you have triggering runs. It is due to the fact that triggering runs usually go unpunished because of an unrealistic fatigue/stamina system, and also because midfield play is non-existent in a game like FIFA.

I've bolded(!) a part of your quote above: "Why should you be able to make players who don't go on runs, go on runs whenever you feel like it". This is very debatable. I can respond to that by saying, it gives me more freedom. This is an advantage put into my own hands rather than in the hands of AI. It is MY decision to trigger runs. Whether it is BENEFICIAL to send Tymoshchuk in the 6 yard box is the subject that should be debated.

And yes beta63 I played the demo at my brother's yesterday.
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How about triggering runs towards you to make the player show himself for a pass? So it's more like a "give me some options here guys!" shout to your team members. Then depending on their attributes and stuff, they will react differently. You know Xavi might move towards you where there is open space, while Pedro might take a run for a through ball. So it's more that the AI look at the situation and the player's stats and decide what to do.

This way it might not feel as unrealistic as in FIFA with all the 100% speed forward runs. Just a thought.
 
Rob92 said:
Could anyone help me out - I'm wondering how I should go about getting PES 2011 (Xbox 360) :).

The last couple of years, supermarkets have been selling FIFA (among other popular games) for £25 or less on release day - has the same thing happened with PES? (I havn't even considered buying it since PES6!)

Are there any sites doing cheap pre-orders?

Any help appreciated :).

The game is looking superb imo, just from watching the videos I can tell I will like it :). The variety of goals and some of the passing moves are a breath of fresh air after having played FIFA for a few years.
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I'd advise you to get it on PS3, or PC even

Xbox is the worst of them since it's very hard to patch unless you have a modded 360 :)
 
mjsmith2k said:
In that case hold :r1: then press :r2: and point (at the same time) in the direction you want to flick it. It is really a running knock-ahead, but I use it for wrong footing players sometimes.
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If this move is the same as it was on PES3/4/5/6, then it's not really an alternative to FIFA's right stick knock-ons, because you already have to be sprinting and you can only knock the ball at a 22.5 degree angle.

klashman69 said:
I'd advise you to get it on PS3, or PC even

Xbox is the worst of them since it's very hard to patch unless you have a modded 360 :)
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Meh, my PC sucks and I don't own a PS3 :P.

The gameplay is most important to me anyway, I can put up without a patched game :).
 
Gab_ said:
How about triggering runs towards you to make the player show himself for a pass? So it's more like a "give me some options here guys!" shout to your team members. Then depending on their attributes and stuff, they will react differently. You know Xavi might move towards you where there is open space, while Pedro might take a run for a through ball. So it's more that the AI look at the situation and the player's stats and decide what to do.

This way it might not feel as unrealistic as in FIFA with all the 100% speed forward runs. Just a thought.
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That would be an amazing, but I can only see that happening in my dreams. I mean you need one hell of an AI to do that!
 
Rob92 said:
Meh, my PC sucks and I don't own a PS3 :P.

The gameplay is most important to me anyway, I can put up without a patched game :).
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OK OK :) did you get my pm btw?

I take you have a old PC? Even average new PC's or laptops can run PES 2011 perfectly man :)

I know what you mean. Gameplay is the most important thing by far, gimmicks and other stuff will wear off if the game is boring but PES with patches! It's another game in itself :WORSHIP:
 
klashman69 said:
OK OK :) did you get my pm btw?

I take you have a old PC? Even average new PC's or laptops can run PES 2011 perfectly man :)

I know what you mean. Gameplay is the most important thing by far, gimmicks and other stuff will wear off if the game is boring but PES with patches! It's another game in itself :WORSHIP:
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I have a laptop, it isn't actually that old, but my priorities were the CPU and RAM - it has an onboard graphics card so I can't play any recent games.

Even PES3-6 suffer from slowdown, and PES 2010 is only playable on the very lowest detail and resolution :P.

I agree though that PES is best on PC - I loved having all the stadia, real adboards, nice pitch textures, kits, balls, boots etc. that I had on the old PES games.

P.S. - Replied to PM :TU:.
 
Wholeheartedly disagree that L1 run triggers are the solution. It omits player personality from the equation, which would be a shocking state of affairs for PES. As has been said, L1 triggering in FIFA is a band-aid for poor AI. The movement in PES is fundamentally better even if it turns out after a few months of play that this is still an issue. If this was the case then the solution is to improve the AI's responsiveness to tactics and the situation at hand. An L1 trigger in PES would unavoidably be a band-aid for poor tactics and I'm dead against that. It really would give PES the always forward attacking problem you see in FIFA regardless of whether the players are tired as a result, simply because people really would just bludgeon their way forward rather than having to think about what they're doing.

The closest I could ever come to a compromise is for your trigger button to 'request' that a player makes some sort of movement, but the direction and speed of the movement being based on the player you're triggering rather than being a uniform sprint up the pitch. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks so but getting Demichelis or Badstuber to make the same runs as Robben or Muller would be utter bullshit and make a massive part of the game completely impotent. It soul be the PES equivalent of a severe stroke.
 
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