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PES 2011 Discussion thread

I'm quickly going to chip in on the PES2011 v PES2010 discussion. Personally I feel 2011 is much more of a simulation than 2010. It feels like a more thoughtful, tactical game with the scope to play many different styles of football, not just the short passing game that PES always used to promote.

Sure, the stats-based influence may have been watered down slightly by giving the player more control, but actually I'd like to commend Konami on doing an excellent job combining the influence of player attributes with a semi- manual control system. I've hardly used full manual passing at all because I just don't feel the need to. Their standard passing system gives me enough control to play the ball I want, which is how it should be. I'd say they are fairly close to nailing it on their first attempt, but of course there is still room to improve in the coming years.

Players still feel massively different in every way and good passers of the ball still have the same kind of impact they always did in PES. My playmaker Parejo can spray accurate passes about like no-one else in my team. The fact that certain players in this game can be almost unplayable to the opposition shows that the stat-based gameplay is still alive and well in PES2011.

Most importantly, PES2011 has an addictive quality that's been missing since PES5. I could happily sit and play this game all day because every game feels different and the variety of goals that can be scored is probably bigger than ever. PES2010 was good but after 3 or 4 games I would get fed up of it.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Your a victim of your own success Rom, Division 3 will house alot of bellends.

Edit - Out of interest Rom, what is your current line-up ?

I sold Abriel and bought Adriano, I gave him his debut before I went to bed last night, he was on a purple and had a nightmare. Talk about a 2-footed player though, 8 and 8, no worries on that score.
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My line-up's the sort that, if it was my offline ML game, I'd be thinking of quitting and starting again soon.

------------Luis Fabiano

-Adriano-------------Cassano


-----------Montolivo------------Milner


------------------De Rossi

Vargas/Cordoba---------------------Zanetti
----------Chiellini----Dunne/Cordoba
-------------------Reina


I try to play Cordoba on the left as Vargas and Adriano are both S/OFF, but I do move De Rossi over to LDM if Vargas is playing.I've actually got a couple of stronger players on the bench (Cambiasso, Hamsik, Arshavin, Higuain) but I try to stick to the above as I've had that midfield and forward line for something like a week now and they generally seem to work together very well. It's got to the point where I can't really complain about superstars when I'm still playing against sides with Stremer at the back, but I have purposefully avoided getting the likes of Rooney/Ronaldo/Aguero/Messi up until I signed Arshavin.

One of the other problems I've faced is people exploiting how hard it is to score a free kick and how lenient the refs are by just hitting slide tackle and bringing me down every single time. He had a good team too but I just wasn't sprinting around and was doing him on a regular basis, so he just started hacking from the 30th minute on. It'd be good if there was some sort of dynamic play-style indicator. So someone who hits cutbacks every single time, on our screen we'd see that they're a 'Cutback Whore', or 'hacks people down EVERY bloody time', or 'does 10 rainbows a match cos he thinks it's cool'. On their screen, they'd see an always on top gif of two naked 70 year olds rimming, and goatse becomes their menu wallpaper.


Edit: Missed your post Expander. Interesting post - I don't recall ever seeing anyone say that FIFA 10 is balanced before! I know what you mean though - if FIFA is played properly then it does get certain aspects of football bang on. PES, by contrast, deliberately avoids directly mimicking specific parts in order to ensure that the whole is what feels like football.

There are arguments for both and I think FIFA could represent football as a whole if the devs weren't hamstrung by how much resource they've already committed to the technology they've already put in and of course by the twunt demographic. I'm feeling fairly confident that PES will be more balanced in the end as a lot of the issues seem to be down to how the players move and defend. For example I've noticed that sometimes the secondary press button actually moves the player you're controlling towards the ball, screwing up your positioning and not really being effective because you're 30 yards away and to the side! Not being able to stand off players is painful but also not being able to player switch with the RS or control your player's movement direction and speed nearly as precisely as in FIFA (which doesn't have to be about unrealistic turning speeds at all) are things I'm really missing. It really would do Konami a favour to nick a couple of the things that EA has actually got right.

No guarantees but it should be less imbalanced by the time the final game comes out. That said they are meant to be trying to attract the hardcore back...from FIFA.
 
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Jamezinho said:
I'm quickly going to chip in on the PES2011 v PES2010 discussion. Personally I feel 2011 is much more of a simulation than 2010. It feels like a more thoughtful, tactical game with the scope to play many different styles of football, not just the short passing game that PES always used to promote.

Sure, the stats-based influence may have been watered down slightly by giving the player more control, but actually I'd like to commend Konami on doing an excellent job combining the influence of player attributes with a semi- manual control system. I've hardly used full manual passing at all because I just don't feel the need to. Their standard passing system gives me enough control to play the ball I want, which is how it should be. I'd say they are fairly close to nailing it on their first attempt, but of course there is still room to improve in the coming years.

Players still feel massively different in every way and good passers of the ball still have the same kind of impact they always did in PES. My playmaker Parejo can spray accurate passes about like no-one else in my team. The fact that certain players in this game can be almost unplayable to the opposition shows that the stat-based gameplay is still alive and well in PES2011.

Most importantly, PES2011 has an addictive quality that's been missing since PES5. I could happily sit and play this game all day because every game feels different and the variety of goals that can be scored is probably bigger than ever. PES2010 was good but after 3 or 4 games I would get fed up of it.
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Thats what Rom highlighted to me, and after thinking about it, I do agree with those points 100%. I guess it two different ways of looking at the whole 'simulation' tag, and both ways are correct, even though they differ, if that makes sense.

Nice team that Rom, and to be honest, it's alot better than my offline ML 2010 team, but against the CPU, I could get away with having a team with no house-hold names. It's more fun in offline ML buying 'no-names' and watching their growth, I always buy kids. It's a shame there will be no player stat growth in MLO, but then again, it must be hard to achieve that from a programming perspective.

Edit - Also, isnt it strange how sometimes using lesser players gets you better results with regards the gel of the team. It's like Gerrard and Lampard all over again.


top gif of two naked 70 year olds rimming
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I feel mentally raped. :CONFUSE:
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Thats what Rom highlighted to me, and after thinking about it, I do agree with those points 100%. I guess it two different ways of looking at the whole 'simulation' tag, and both ways are correct, even though they differ, if that makes sense.

Nice team that Rom, and to be honest, it's alot better than my offline ML 2010 team, but against the CPU, I could get away with having a team with no house-hold names. It's more fun in offline ML buying 'no-names' and watching their growth, I always buy kids. It's a shame there will be no player stat growth in MLO, but then again, it must be hard to achieve that from a programming perspective.

Edit - Also, isnt it strange how sometimes using lesser players gets you better results with regards the gel of the team. It's like Gerrard and Lampard all over again.
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Me too - if I got to the point where I had the money to spend on these players in an offline ML game I'd quit and start again because the challenge would have gone. I was chuffed with Adriano as he was only £3.5m or so and has been immense for me, while Montolivo is better in that central midfield position than De Rossi, Hamsik, Yaya Toure and Cambiasso despite costing £3.3m or so. Simons and Marco Rossi were both great signings too, at the £2m mark.

But the rate at which you earn money compared to the prices of players is absurd with so few people around to bump the prices up. It's a point I've made a few times simply because it's a really big factor that you miss when playing a beta vs a handful of others. You need at least 20-30,000 people playing this really, but the more the better. About 40 people own Ronaldo now, and his price has gone up from £8m to £30m. If 100 people owned him he'd prolly be around £80m. You can extrapolate that further across more users for even higher prices on the big names, encouraging you to go for the small names as is the intention. If Messi costs £100m and Adriano costs £10m then it's a no-brainer who you should look to sign.


I feel mentally raped. :CONFUSE:
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That's what I was going for :)
 
is there a button now to give a scholes type hard long pass? i remember reading it somewhere, hopefully wasn't on the fifa forum.
 
frontliner28 said:
I guess the PS3 trophies will be identical too, plus the Platinum trophy. As that other guy said they are more or less the same as PES2010, but with a couple of extras (Copa Libertadores for example). Very easy Platinum! :D
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The achievement/trophy list has been more or less the same for a few years now. Some more interesting achievements would be nice for a change.
 
Mana Cerace said:
That replay that I quoted didn't look very different from previous years. The player was changing direction at 90-degree angles, which is exactly what I hated about PES2010.

The fact that it depends on the player, and there are different skills, doesn't really seem to be a relief, but I'm ready to change my mind.
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Oh but trust me, it is very different. You need very good player to be able to dribble like that. It's up to how you play it, but drawing angles isn't as easy as it used to be.
 
today I played fifa 2010 at my friend's house.

well I have to to admit that fifa let's you control everything! In which way you want to push the ball. I love the way left and right sticks are coordinating with each other. Also the defending animations and animations in general are very nice. There is for every situation a suiting animation whatever position of the ball is to the player.

What I disliked was the ballphysics which was so unrealistic! And the fact that 6-0-4 formations are too good -.-

If PES 2011 wants to compete with fifa... they really need to add lots of things :o And from the videos it isn't enough yet...

I will still be playing PES cause I really hated how the ball was flying and the ping pong passes.
 
Thypari said:
today I played fifa 2010 at my friend's house.

well I have to to admit that fifa let's you control everything! In which way you want to push the ball. I love the way left and right sticks are coordinating with each other. Also the defending animations and animations in general are very nice. There is for every situation a suiting animation whatever position of the ball is to the player.

What I disliked was the ballphysics which was so unrealistic! And the fact that 6-0-4 formations are too good -.-

If PES 2011 wants to compete with fifa... they really need to add lots of things :o And from the videos it isn't enough yet...

I will still be playing PES cause I really hated how the ball was flying and the ping pong passes.
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You can't expect PES to able to fully compete with a solid FIFA for a few years now in terms of animations, within 2 years of work.

And what exactly does PES have to "add" to compete with FIFA, when talking about gameplay, in your opinion?
 
_anderson said:
You can't expect PES to able to fully compete with a solid FIFA for a few years now in terms of animations, within 2 years of work.

And what exactly does PES have to "add" to compete with FIFA, when talking about gameplay, in your opinion?
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the animations
Now there are sometimes actions where you have to wait until the ball is in the correct position to your player that he is actually doing something. Like long balls where the player stops instead of running at the ball. Or keepers can't grap a ball the right way cause the ball isn't at the right position for the animation. In fifa there are a lot of defending animations. Different slide tackles, tackles and the players always fall down in a different way. I felt a lot more freedom and control. And I only played fifa once now (5hours ^^).
PES needs for every possible ball to player position an animation. So I have the full control over the player and his movements.

the free control of a ball
right stick: in which direction i want to push the ball
left stick: movement direction of the player
if only left stick is used the ball will be pushed in the player movement direction

trick system
In pes you have to push 1 button for 1 trick. That is a way to easy and really arcade like. In fifa it is really hard to perform the right trick at the right time. In some youtube videos there are these tricksters. I spent quite some time to be able to do a usefull trick ingame like them. It is really hard and uncommon and that is how it should be.
 
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[B said:
the free control of a ball[/B]
right stick: in which direction i want to push the ball
left stick: movement direction of the player
if only left stick is used the ball will be pushed in the player movement direction

.
Click to expand...

This wont be in PES 2011 ?
 
Thypari said:
the animations
Now there are sometimes actions where you have to wait until the ball is in the correct position to your player that he is actually doing something. Like long balls where the player stops instead of running at the ball. Or keepers can't grap a ball the right way cause the ball isn't at the right position for the animation. In fifa there are a lot of defending animations. Different slide tackles, tackles and the players always fall down in a different way. I felt a lot more freedom and control. And I only played fifa once now (5hours ^^).

the free control of a ball
right stick: in which direction i want to push the ball
left stick: movement direction of the player
if only left stick is used the ball will be pushed in the player movement direction

trick system
In pes you have to push 1 button for 1 trick. That is a way to easy and really arcade like. In fifa it is really hard to perform the right trick at the right time. In some youtube videos there are these tricksters. I spent quite some time to be able to do a usefull trick ingame like them. It is really hard and uncommon and that is how it should be.
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1- You haven't played the game, and also the videos you've seen are from in-development stages of the game. It's true that FIFA is still way more "dynamic", but like I've said, you can't expect Konami to equal an almost "perfect" animation system with 2 years of work. Anyway, judge those annoyances with animations and keepers with the demo.

2- That's the same as R1+R2 with the ball in PES. And there's word there's a similar system to that one (using both sticks) in the latest code. Again, judge it with the demo.

3- That's not true at all. Only a handful of tricks are performed with one button only on PES 2011. Although I do agree, the tricks linking, rainbow flicks abuse, etc, shouldn't exist. Bad move by Konami. But "true PES fans" (quotation marks because this is turning into a cliche) don't care about tricks anyway.

On the core, gameplay, PES 2011 SHOULD deliver a better experience than FIFA 2011. Not very fair to say this though, 'cause I haven't played FIFA11.
 
_anderson said:
1- You haven't played the game, and also the videos you've seen are from in-development stages of the game. It's true that FIFA is still way more "dynamic", but like I've said, you can't expect Konami to equal an almost "perfect" animation system with 2 years of work.

2- That's the same as R1+R2 with the ball in PES. And there's word there's a similar system to that one (using both sticks) in the latest code. Again, judge it with the demo.

3- That's not true at all. Only a handful of tricks are performed with one button only on PES 2011. Although I do agree, the tricks linking, rainbow flicks abuse, etc, shouldn't exist. Bad move by Konami. But "true PES fans" (quotation marks because this is turning into a cliche) don't care about tricks anyway.

On the core, gameplay, PES 2011 SHOULD deliver a better experience than FIFA 2011. Not very fair to say this though, 'cause I haven't played FIFA11.
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to 2:
I use supercontrol since pes5. After all kind of passes cause it gives me the freedom to outplay my enemies with moves they don't know. But it is far to complicated and you can't just push the ball on the right side of the enemy and walk past him on the left side. You also have not the full control on ball recieving. Maybe I want to push the ball a little bit more to the side so that my player is in between the ball and the enemy player when immidietly changing direction.

In PES2010 there are is no freedom on ball pushes. Only on the passes because of the new pass system. Or am I miss informed? Didn't see anything like that in the latest videos.
 
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Thypari said:
to 2:
I use supercontrol since pes5. After all kind of passes cause it gives me the freedom to outplay my enemies with moves they don't know. But it is far to complicated and you can't just push the ball on the right side of the enemy and walk past him on the left side. You also have not the full control on ball recieving. Maybe I want to push the ball a little bit more to the side so that my player is in between the ball and the enemy player when immidietly changing direction.

In PES2010 there are is no freedom on ball pushes. Only on the passes because of the new pass system. Or am I miss informed? Didn't see anything like that in the latest videos.
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I'm not sure if I understand what you mean with "ball pushes" lol. There was never lack of control on that aspect for me.

The same thing you do on Fifa with right stick (pushing the ball in different directions with the right stick) you can already do on a more "manual" way (R1+tap R2). But like I said, there's supposed to be a similar system to Fifa on the latest code.
 
_anderson said:
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean with "ball pushes" lol. There was never lack of control on that aspect for me.
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yeah my english sucks xD just when you dribble you don't always push the ball in front of you. Sometimes you want to push the ball in an other direction than you are actually walking.

Also the distance between you and the ball is always different when you dribble. Sometimes you push it further to outplay a defender.
 
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Thypari said:
yeah my english sucks xD just when you dribble you don't always push the ball in front of you. Sometimes you want to push the ball in an other direction than you are actually walking.
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I've not played Fifa10 much, but the right stick makes the player change the ball direction but follow it afterwards, right? You can do that on PES 2011 MLO beta, but not in the same way (not using the Right stick). But, for the 3rd time, Latest code is supposed to be different.
 
well... I don't think there will be such a big difference.
Every year it is the same.

"Oh yeah! That beta gameplay video was only at 60%"
"yeah the gamescom code was only at 80%"
"yeah the demo was only at 90%"

and there was no real difference in between them... only bugfixes.
 
Thypari said:
well... I don't think there will be such a big difference.
Every year it is the same.

"Oh yeah! That beta gameplay video was only at 60%"
"yeah the gamescom code was only at 80%"
"yeah the demo was only at 90%"

and there was no real difference in between them... only bugfixes.
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I said nothing about big differences. Stop judging stuff from videos, you haven't played the beta, you haven't played the code at gamescom, not this year, not last year, so you don't know big the difference was.

I don't like code talk too, but it's a fact that things change during different stages of development. Obviously in most of the cases, at this late stage, you don't expect to be able to pick up the differences, at least from vids.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
:LOL:

Thats just plain ridiculous, I'm sure that type of rubbish wont make the retail version. But then again, after seeing the Rainbow Flick, nothing would suprise me now.
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There's a vid of pes2011 with C. Ronaldo scoring with a backheel that has the speed of light.
 
_anderson said:
I said nothing about big differences. Stop judging stuff from videos, you haven't played the beta, you haven't played the code at gamescom, not this year, not last year, so you don't know big the difference was.

I don't like code talk too, but it's a fact that things change during different stages of development. Obviously in most of the cases, at this late stage, you don't expect to be able to pick up the differences, at least from vids.
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I was at gamescom last year and this year :D I am from germany ^^. Gamescom is a must-go! :>
 
Doesn't this slightly negative preview of the game sound amazing to us die-hards, I mean he only scored 1 goal in 4 games dammit!

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/...011-Preview---Talking--bout-An-Evolution.html

It’s that time of year again when the majority of sports titles can expect to have their annual update, leading to a flood of last year’s titles hitting the trade-in bin and a minor raft of improvements being lauded as major new features in the new version. With this kind of annual tradition taking place, it may seem strange to preview one title above all of the others, but then again, there are few titles with more riding on them than PES 2011. The last few years have not been kind to what used to be the football title for purists, so can we finally expect to see a return to form? We went hands on with the latest version to find out.

Once on the pad, initial impressions are good, with the character models and animations looking positively flawless at times. This is probably one of the best representations of the beautiful game to date, even down to the stadiums which have had something of a static feel to them in the past. Obviously there is a limit to the number of licensed teams available, with the vast majority of English sides being conspicuously absent, though at least you can have the comically similar teams to use should you so desire.




Another neat touch is the far more approachable team tactics system, which is amazingly simple to use. Instead of messing around selecting and unselecting options, you can simply drag and drop players to whatever position on the pitch you think suitable. You can also grab a player and drag him over to the substitute bench, which will automatically highlight a series of preferred replacements for that position. It is all pretty seamless and makes it that much easier to tinker with your team set up.

Once the game kicks off, the most notable thing is the change in pace. The game feels a lot more measured this time around, with the emphasis on utilising the 360 degree passing system to create space. The passing is fairly sensitive though so players will literally need to be spot on with their placement or run the risk of losing possession at an alarming rate. Once you get into the swing of things it becomes a lot more intuitive, although at times you will hanker for a bit of assistance. Stamina also has more of a bearing on your players as if you tire them out too much it will have a more noticeable impact on their passing, shooting and speed – just like in real life I guess.

The major problem with the drop in pace is the fact that it seems almost impossible to speed past the last man anymore. Each player’s abilities are meant to be completely unique and based on their real life counterparts, and yet time and again players like Aaron Lennon, Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo would be unable to burst past any defender even when running onto a through ball. The defenders in the game have an almost uncanny ability to read any run you care to make and it spoils things somewhat and just makes things seem almost unrealistic. Obviously the advantage shouldn’t always go to the attacking team, but when a speedy player is up against someone like John Terry, who has the off-the-ball pace of an elderly, arthritic turtle, then the game should really represent that.




Two other things that have been noticeably altered is the long range shooting mechanic – which is much easier to control this time around and doesn’t just result in every shot smacking the nearest defender – and the skill of the goalkeepers. While it is nice to be able to rely on getting your long range screamers on target, the keepers seem to have become almost godlike. When you consider that my opponent had been playing the game for a good while, it comes as some surprise to see that we played out two nil-nil draws consecutively. With close to twenty shots on target in each game - and neither of us were exactly new to PES in general - then perhaps the goalies need toning down a little. Even when we tried playing against random attendees and even the AI, the goals were not exactly flowing. In four different matches we only scored once and conceded none, which is hardly going to set your heart racing.

The changes on the whole are looking fairly positive though, with a new online Master League mode, the Copa Libertadores competition and a wealth of editing options all adding to the experience. However, the gameplay changes may well scupper the good work that has been done; including goalkeepers that reduce games to uninspiring draws and defenders that cannot be outpaced, there seems to be some tweaking needed. If Konami can sort out the few balancing issues though, then this game could well be back to its best, but with the game due to launch at the end of this year, time may be running out.
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This preview is a ringing endorsement of the game, he couldn't sprint spam, defending works, long shooting is hard, passing is harder and he needed more assistance.

Play more than four games next time Slugger. :))
 
Seems to me that whoever wrote that, is either used to FIFA 10 A.I. or abused sprinters in PES 2010. :LOL:

I hope all these "negatives" are true (except maybe the fact that the A.I. is easy to deal with), and not just the lack of skill of whoever is playing. Sounds like PES 5 all over :D
 
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