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PES 2011 Demo impressions

nokmond said:
Just had a game Munich v Cpu Barca. Messi holding off my def from a throw in, ball at his feet and goes down like a sack of dogger. Ref blows - pissflaps I thought, its a pen, then ref pulls out yellow and books him for diving.

Quality.
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Excuse me sir whilst I go pull my plonker.
 
Has anybody else been noticing the exploit where if you dribble down the wings, as close to the touchline as possible and without using sprint at all, the CPU defenders will not try to tackle you, allowing you to reach the end line and put in a perfect cross!?!
 
Yes, there is a gamebreaking flaw with the demo, it is extremely easy to find and prove, it only takes a second. If you don't think it's true then you don't know how to do this, try this it's very easy:

Posted on PESGAMING:


proofreeder said:
If anyone able to contact the creators of PES11 reads this, I urge you to pass on this feedback. This is a blatantly obvious flaw that breaks the game.

To find the flaw, please do this:

Get the ball in the opposition corner with only one man on you. Now dribble up and down the touchline without run. As long as you are not doubleteamed, you can move up and down as much as you like.

This flaw can also be used a lot in the actual game. The Cat, who initially brought the flaw to our attention, can score goals nearly at will using this. Doing the above is the easiest way to point out the flaw IMO, because it shows how ignorant and powerless the defender is to stop a controlled (ie without holding run) dribble.

The philosophies of football in PES11 are not right and haven't been since PES5. Your enforced punishments for turning sharply while running isn't correct.

In real football it is easy for a player to accelerate and turn with a long first touch, but you also punish them severly for this with a "glitchy", laggy run for a few milliseconds before bursting into a run. It is easy to turn and accelerate from a stationary position, the difficult thing is turning at a high velocity quickly while maintaining momentum. PES11 confuses the two. PES5 understood this but PES11 does not.

IMO the misunderstanding of fundamental philosophies of football means you've had to restrict or retard use of the run to such a drastic point, you've had to give too much power to the non-run dribble to compensate.

Here are some extracts kindly collected by The Cat from a few of us already aware of the flaw whereby defenders will not tackle a non-running dribbler when they only have single coverage:

"@Proofreader & Kaiser – Thanks for taking the time to look into this current gamebreaker. KONAMI need to address it immediately. I doubt they will though, Im pretty sure Jon Murphy has come out and said the demo is final code. (So changes of any note are very unlikely to happen)

HOPE YOU DONT MIND BUT IVE POSTED YOUR MESSAGES AGAIN IN THE HOPE THAT THE BOARD WILL SIT UP AND LISTEN.

The Cat – MASSIVE BUG – Run down the wing without pressing R1 (No one will tackle you) Cross the ball into the box (No one will block you) and get a goal scoring opportunity 3/5 times. THIS IS SHOCKING!

Proofreader – @ The Cat – When I read your comment I thought I’d give it a go. At first I couldn’t make it work, but then one time with Puyol against Robben (I was Puyol) Robben kept backing up and backing up all the way down the pitch to ridiculous proportions.

I tried to figure out if this was a one off or something consistent and I found when I had the ball in the corner flag, I could stroll up and down the wing all day, up and back, up and back, and the defender would NEVER tackle me, just like you stated.

Anyone who doesn’t believe The Cat, do this (on top player). Get a player into the opposition corner, then, without even touching run, jog along the sideline up and back, as long as you stay against the line. It doesn’t work when there is a double team or if you press run.

The defence plays it way too safe by refusing to even go for the ball because they get beaten so easily without run.

I wanted to love this game, it felt a lot better in certain circumstances but if this is the final code it’s clearly broken, and badly, which is so annoying because they’ve done some things really well.

Anyone who bags me because they think I’m hating, well, just try what The Cat mentioned, if you’re half competent you should be able to pull this off no worries.

Kaiser – @The Cat – Dammit it is broken (dribble down the line and no-one tackles you) – I can’t believe it as I had such high hopes and was really enjoying the demo.

I can confirm that not only does this exploit work down the line but you can basically walk into the 18yard box as long as a 2nd player does not join in the tackle i.e 1 on 1 – the CPU will not tackle you!!!!!"

I just don't understand how this could happen after having so long after the near perfect PES5 to improve the game, we have been starved for a brilliant football game for so long.

Please fix this before it's too late, although I'm guessing it's probably too late already isn't it? We want to buy a game that's a challenge and can't be beating by just strolling down the field, you've had so many years after PES5 to create this but we are left continually heartbroken.
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I've written a lot more about it on PESGAMING and have endeavoured to contact Konami, but it is definitely there, the more people aware about it the better IMO. If you want to read more about it, including a video clearly demonstrating this, look at The Cat's posts and the threads I have started recently on PESGAMING.
 
Yeah, there's no doubt, definitely true. There's quite a number of "quirks" with the AI but this is by far the worst I've experienced. Probably not necessarily a game breaker - just don't do it against the CPU - but there's a number of issues like this that are, quite frankly, inexcusable. Maybe this is something that could get patched?
 
Edmundo, you will come across it in normal play once you learn to not use run as much. It doesn't just happen on the sideline, if you know the circumstances it will occur anywhere.

Don't hold run, no double team. Defenders will not tackle.

As a player, if you know the defence is going to keep backing up, you are never forced to make a move.

The issue can be avoided in multiplayer as player control will not do this and manual tackling fine.
 
winston said:
4 linked skills in each direction? 4? lol!

what is this, some sort of dance routine game?

will have to try this out to see what's the most elaborate string of dancing i can knit together -

online, we can have in-match sub-competitions to see who can do the best dance moves

does this game still have fish heads and stuff? imagine dancing fish heads, what a hoot....what a sim...
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Yea, but in all honesty, if you had played the game you would quickly realise that it's difficult enough to pull of one trick and get past your marker, let alone 2 or 3 or 4 in a row. You need to know which foot you are using, what direction you are aiming for and what do do after potentially beating your man.

You need a fotball brain son, and judging by your post, you'd best avoid PES2011 as you may find it frustrating.
 
Guys, there's no ambiguity to it.

If you want to prove it, LISTEN and just try what I've said for godsake.

On TOP PLAYER, get the ball in the opposition corner. Now dribble without run up and down the touchline. It's that friggin easy.

This flaw is covered up because CPU doubleteams all the time and players use run.

It doesn't just happen on the touchline, ANYTIME the player is single covered and you don't press run the CPU will NEVER tackle you. This is a serious misconception in football AI. The AI thinks to stop a player slow dribbling, you have to double team him OR wait for him to run. That is NOT football! The "sideline exploit" is just the easiest way to prove it to people who have a hard time understanding it.

You can put up a video anyone for whom this is easy to do of dribbling up and down the touchline to prove it, it's so easy. The problem is getting people to actually listen to something and try it.
 
Yes the exploit exists and this must be patched as well as increasing tackling near the sideline.

I tried that exploit myself on the xbox360 but I found it hard to keep control of the player near the cornerline, he always threatened to cross it, so I wasn't succesful in exploiting the bug.
 
What can be done right now to warn Konami into correcting this big flaw ? Have they even answered to people who contacted them ?
 
proofreeder said:
Edmundo, you will come across it in normal play once you learn to not use run as much. It doesn't just happen on the sideline, if you know the circumstances it will occur anywhere.

Don't hold run, no double team. Defenders will not tackle.

As a player, if you know the defence is going to keep backing up, you are never forced to make a move.

The issue can be avoided in multiplayer as player control will not do this and manual tackling fine.
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i see, but yeah i use run most of the time.
 
Hmph!

A few issues from last night. My demo 'jumps' during a match, it will suddenly stop/start and the play will be a few seconds onward from where i was which is weird.

Also the keepers man, Ibrahimovic hit the softest toe poke ever and my keeper dived out of the way, literally just out of the way, unbelievable. Then to equalise i had a header saved and two players ran the ball onto the post, the ball came back out and a barca defender 7 yards from goal just blasts it straight into his own net. What the hell? he could have cleared it.

Im still not convinced. Its still sticky - i dont see the realistic a.i of either the cpu or my team mates.

Sure theres some nice touches here and their but its still a very flawed game for me.
 
Dryzer said:
Hmph!

A few issues from last night. My demo 'jumps' during a match, it will suddenly stop/start and the play will be a few seconds onward from where i was which is weird.

Also the keepers man, Ibrahimovic hit the softest toe poke ever and my keeper dived out of the way, literally just out of the way, unbelievable. Then to equalise i had a header saved and two players ran the ball onto the post, the ball came back out and a barca defender 7 yards from goal just blasts it straight into his own net. What the hell? he could have cleared it.

Im still not convinced. Its still sticky - i dont see the realistic a.i of either the cpu or my team mates.

Sure theres some nice touches here and their but its still a very flawed game for me.
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The demo jump issue is on 360. Nothing to do with the game itself.

As for the AI, its not perfect. You'll see good things and bad things in every game. It's not a very flawed game. You're exaggerating.
 
Sometimes I see some of my players going away from the ball that somehow surprisingly became dead due to bouncing around between opposition and own team, I try to switch to that player near to the ball to get the ball but no way and then he leaves the ball.

These and other bugs hopefully will be patched, but I'm optimistic, that these as well as the exploits and stutter will be dealt with.

Upping the awareness-AI of the players to read the game better and to become more alive though is a thing that is more difficult to achieve and will probably have to wait till PES 2012/2013.
 
Gotta love this littel fella too...

http://espndeportes-assets.espn.go.com/2003/photos2009/1220/m_bofo_500x365.jpg
m_bofo_500x365.jpg
 
proofreeder said:
Guys, there's no ambiguity to it.

If you want to prove it, LISTEN and just try what I've said for godsake.

On TOP PLAYER, get the ball in the opposition corner. Now dribble without run up and down the touchline. It's that friggin easy.
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kouroux said:
What can be done right now to warn Konami into correcting this big flaw ? Have they even answered to people who contacted them ?
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Jamezinho said:
Twitter Jon Murphy I guess:

http://twitter.com/JonMurphy_PES
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Better mention the manual passing goal issue. Goalkeepers are pretty clueless if you just manually pass the ball towards goal. Almost guaranteed goal.

Dryzer said:
Hmph!


Also the keepers man, Ibrahimovic hit the softest toe poke ever and my keeper dived out of the way, literally just out of the way, unbelievable. Then to equalise i had a header saved and two players ran the ball onto the post, the ball came back out and a barca defender 7 yards from goal just blasts it straight into his own net. What the hell? he could have cleared it.

Im still not convinced. Its still sticky - i dont see the realistic a.i of either the cpu or my team mates.

Sure theres some nice touches here and their but its still a very flawed game for me.
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Some of the AI is atrocious, laughable actually. It's a work in progress and there's a lot of work for Seabass to do to fill in the holes.

Haven't tried much with the tactical settings yet but hopefully that will sort out the players refusing to make, or suddenly stopping midway through, runs in such a glaring unnatural way. It certainly emphasises the A part of AI and should require tactical settings to make them do such basic things.
 
winston said:
Yeah, that's something I've been beginning to try.

I also noticed that this installment of PES requires a very light touch on the shoot button, otherwise it's row Z ever time.

Another couple of questions -

Is there a way to cancel your last command? You know, like if you press the pass button early, before you've reached a loose ball, then you get to the ball and the situation has changed so you don't want to pass after all, but it remembers your button press from 2 seconds ago and kicks the ball away.

I thought that PES08 or 09 were supposed to have fixed this issue and it was one of Konami's big boasts. But the problem is very much there in 11, so do I need to press a button to cancel?

And where's super-cancel? Has it been ditched?

And how do I get the keeper to drop the ball at his feet when he's hoilding it in his hands? Everything seems to cause him to boot it.
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Super cancel is still there and also the drop you want for the keeper is as usual, with R1 in PS3...
 
I'm on the fence with the motion blur as well. It's funny and sort of cool at first but it gets tired fairly quickly.
 
Was trailing to Barca last night 2-0, managed to level it by around the 70 minute mark. The AI was brilliant, they were throwing players forward and I ended up needing to sub off Puyol who was a zombie. Anyway, Messi received the ball outside the D. I went to press the little gnome and down he went. Peep of the whistle, ref runs over, yellow card for Messi for simulation, his 2nd of the game, sayonara!
:BOP:
 
the AI is stupid, however the most annoying thing is the ages old 'CPU momentum' thingy, you see no matter how good you're playing there are moments when the CPU would 'control the game' and scores goals, whether by somehow crapping your team movement & passing, or by creating 'scripted legendary goals'.... I just drew with england after emile heskey created 'kungfu volley' kick goal from outside of the penalty area....

wtf....
 
henrys hand said:
Sometimes I see some of my players going away from the ball that somehow surprisingly became dead due to bouncing around between opposition and own team, I try to switch to that player near to the ball to get the ball but no way and then he leaves the ball.

These and other bugs hopefully will be patched, but I'm optimistic, that these as well as the exploits and stutter will be dealt with.

Upping the awareness-AI of the players to read the game better and to become more alive though is a thing that is more difficult to achieve and will probably have to wait till PES 2012/2013.
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PES 2012 /PES 2013 .. we have to wait :YAWN:
 
Fifa had a much simpler problem where the full backs hung back playing people onside and that couldnt be fixed via patch
 
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