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PES 2008 PS3 thread

Goddamn, I thought the stadium-editor feature was real. Now fuck me, but that would be excellent. Not too thrilled about the info so far, but I'll wait to see a gameplay video to really judge yet. Hope to god there's 360 movement. And yeah, when's the convention today?
 
Found this information about the event:

- Tokyo conference : 2007 June 23rd (Saturday) 24 days (day)
- Opening time : 9:00 - 16:00
 
Don't know why we bother at all. After reading about pes8 I said "maybe pes6 was better than what you remember" and played it again. Oh, dear. Then I remembered. It's such an awful game! Everything is simply wrong in it. Scripted gameplay, unfairness (even in multiplayer they recognized they were cheating all time to add "drama"), I can't even MOVE my player where and how I want... It's pathetic to see how this game has gone down the hill for the past years, mainly because of this cheap decisions made by konami.

I don't expect next pes to be NOTHING. They have no credit to me, as the only thing they have done since pes3 is just squeeze an old old engine. The game is to football what need for speed is to real racing.

BUT... maybe, if they get rid of the railing, allow us to freely MOVE and accelerate, have decent passing and let us decide how far/ strong a pass will be (crossing in this game is simply pressing a button and wacthing what the cpu decided for you), let us shoot where we want, even they restore the good supercancel to use... maybe if they add a decent AI that prevent your defenders to go away every time, maybe if positioning could mean something (intercepting the ball is impossible because of srcipting in passes), maybe if your teammates decided to run with you instead of stopping by no reasons... maybe if deflections are runed by physics and not by stats (there are practically no loose balls in the game other than in some crosses)... MAYBE if they do all this, and spend one extra day of work to allow for real 18 teams leagues in first and second division or even they spend a week improving master league...

MAYBe, if they do all this, and throw in a little next gen graphics, the gme will be good. But I don't think it happens. Pes seems like a dead track to me, it's not evoluting at all. Fifa does, but it's still far. How sad, I wish there was another game with a fresh approach to football simulation.
 
I can understand all that but konami do not throw it all together like that shame really u lot are silly though ur reli going mad bout the pics they look gd its not the final release pics people need to relax for more info to come out.
 
People need to stop moaning & wait until you play the game.

Everyone will end up buyin this & Fifa because we all want the best game to play. Some will hate other will love it.
 
Beatts said:
Theres so much hate flying round at the minute, i can see people are passionate about pro-evo but we need to stay possitive maybe im an optimist but here are a few points.

-This shot is from an early build, thats clear to see, just look at the boots, textures and lighting.

-Konami have stated that the final build will contain flowing kits, sweat effects and improved atmosphere

-If you looked at the early 360 shots from last year they were greatly improved before release.

-The models and proportions are spot on, with the few tweaks metioned above we have a great looking game

-Major improvements in the key area, Gameplay

-Still no news on features... so lets just wait it out.
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Dead Man said:
People need to stop moaning & wait until you play the game.

Everyone will end up buyin this & Fifa because we all want the best game to play. Some will hate other will love it.
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I totally agree with these guys. The two best posts in this thread :applause:
 
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160520

Meanwhile, Konami showed off its latest Winning Eleven (aka Pro Evolution Soccer) title, but not quite what everyone is expecting. They showcased J-League Winning Eleven 2007 Club Championship for the PS2, an updated version of last year's J-League Winning Eleven 10 + European League '06-'07. This includes teams from the Japanese soccer clubs J-League, and other European leagues such as France's Ligue 1, Netherlands' Eredivisie, Spain's Liga Espanola and Italy's Serie A. The new feature in the game is the Fantasista mode where you choose a professional football player and raise him to become the top football player in the world.
 
drekkard said:
Don't know why we bother at all. After reading about pes8 I said "maybe pes6 was better than what you remember" and played it again. Oh, dear. Then I remembered. It's such an awful game! Everything is simply wrong in it. Scripted gameplay, unfairness (even in multiplayer they recognized they were cheating all time to add "drama"), I can't even MOVE my player where and how I want... It's pathetic to see how this game has gone down the hill for the past years, mainly because of this cheap decisions made by konami.

I don't expect next pes to be NOTHING. They have no credit to me, as the only thing they have done since pes3 is just squeeze an old old engine. The game is to football what need for speed is to real racing.

BUT... maybe, if they get rid of the railing, allow us to freely MOVE and accelerate, have decent passing and let us decide how far/ strong a pass will be (crossing in this game is simply pressing a button and wacthing what the cpu decided for you), let us shoot where we want, even they restore the good supercancel to use... maybe if they add a decent AI that prevent your defenders to go away every time, maybe if positioning could mean something (intercepting the ball is impossible because of srcipting in passes), maybe if your teammates decided to run with you instead of stopping by no reasons... maybe if deflections are runed by physics and not by stats (there are practically no loose balls in the game other than in some crosses)... MAYBE if they do all this, and spend one extra day of work to allow for real 18 teams leagues in first and second division or even they spend a week improving master league...

MAYBe, if they do all this, and throw in a little next gen graphics, the gme will be good. But I don't think it happens. Pes seems like a dead track to me, it's not evoluting at all. Fifa does, but it's still far. How sad, I wish there was another game with a fresh approach to football simulation.
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For all that I had a momentary hope after reading about PES2008, realism has once again taken a stong hold.

There is nothing in the news about PES2008 that makes mention of the single most critical factor that will drag PES from the depths to which it has sunk, that of full control for the human player.

No mention of 360 analogue control. No mention of a passing system where the player decides the direction and strength at which he wishes to pass. Likewise with shots, crosses, headers, everything! If they had created such things, we would most certainly have already heard all about them. But alas, we have not. We have heard about "CheatVision".

I fully anticipate another scripted game with an AI model that has some new "features" (cheats) but after, at best, a few hours of play, that now all too familiar feeling of "what the fuck is up this crap" monopolises the mind.

I expect the same old story of a virtually totally scritped experience with the only slightest trace of gameplay. And by the looks of it, with the same old graphics, too.
 
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I agree with Drekkard and Winston. Pes is still fun and it's still the best soccergame on the market (unfortunately). But the game is stagnant. Konami really has to wake up and create some real changes. Pes is in desperate need for big changes.
 
jonestm said:
Manual passing has been in the game for years.
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A horribly implemented, not really manual at all, system called "manual passing" has been in the game for years. If this is really the best they can come up with, they should retire from game programming.
 
I've never used the manual passing much. I don't blame the implementation though. I think controlling the precise angle and force of a pass when I need to control the movement of a player as well as pay attention to positions of others at the same time is bound to be difficult. I doubt if a full manual passing system can be made easy enough to compete with the conventional control method.

I'd be satisfied if there is a good way to influence which player to pass to when I aim in a general direction.
 
GMT8 said:
I've never used the manual passing much. I don't blame the implementation though. I think controlling the precise angle and force of a pass when I need to control the movement of a player as well as pay attention to positions of others at the same time is bound to be difficult. I doubt if a full manual passing system can be made easy enough to compete with the conventional control method.

I'd be satisfied if there is a good way to influence which player to pass to when I aim in a general direction.
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Completely agree with that. A totally manual passing game would prove to be very scrappy and far less free-flowing.
 
neil, not if it was implemented well enough it wouldnt. The AI Assisted passing often means the ball goes no where near the direction your pressing and it usually goes to a bloke stood 10 yards offside.... it gets annoying after the 1st 10 times. Also this super cancel bullshit? how about giving us full non robotic control of our players? Nah cant do that as it means the CPU cant cheat...

Slow defenders catching Henry? thats been around since ISS Pro and should have been sorted out years ago.
 
You should be able to have the choice of manual passing or not. They implemented it in the last FIFA and it was superb IMO (not the whole game but the passing and shooting).

360 movement, manual passing and shooting should be the top of the list I reckon.
 
MattT glad you posted that, I forgot to mention that FIFA 07's manual passing system worked pretty well and you could pretty much ping passes where you wanted them too. They were affected by pressure though so if your player was crap at passing and was under heaps of pressure the pass was shit! True to life dont ya think?
 
Manual passing should be a skill that needs to be learned, the direction and power with which you hit the pass button determining how the pass goes.

I hear many people talk about how they play a patient passing game in PES as if it's some great talent they have. Simply pressing X and dozen times and letting the AI model do all the work is not a skill.

The extant manual passing system is not implemented in a intuitive manner. It is clumsy, often a hinderance rather an aid to good play, overly slow and worst of all, not truly manual.

Konami need to relinquish far more control of the game from the grips of the AI model to the player, leaving the player needing to learn the skills of using the control to determine the strength, direction and trajectory of passes, shots, etc
 
The same goes for shooting, moving, goalkeeper passing, heading... pretty much everything in the game should be reowrked to be free. I remember the great plays I did in previous pes, and every installment makes my plays more robotic, similar, and mechanical, and that's because the only thing they have implemented in the engine in the last 3 years is scripts that cut your freedom as player.

Oh, and I forgot. The worst crime (and they even admitted it). When a match begins, it's like they toss a coin. If you're not lucky, your team will struggle to even pass the ball around, will loose all bodychecks, shoot to the moon or to the post, miscontrol the ball... We all experienced that against the CPU, but now it's even in multiplayer! They said that would put more emotion and drama to the game. To me, that's crap. Please, please, where's your head konami?
 
djdoc said:
neil, not if it was implemented well enough it wouldnt. The AI Assisted passing often means the ball goes no where near the direction your pressing and it usually goes to a bloke stood 10 yards offside.... it gets annoying after the 1st 10 times. Also this super cancel bullshit? how about giving us full non robotic control of our players? Nah cant do that as it means the CPU cant cheat...

Slow defenders catching Henry? thats been around since ISS Pro and should have been sorted out years ago.
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Imagine that Henry passes near your defenders every single time..then you would be bitchin why your defenders cant stop Henry..does Henry run past every single defender in every real life game? Everyone is chaseable and stopable. Ok, you said slow defenders, and I know what you are talking about, but still..we all play the game cause fifa is even greater shite.
 
stop me if you want but does it seem like football games are going backwards fifa use to be ok pro evo was awesome i remember pro evo 1 my gosh first playing that game was solid and challenging now its
boring and same old stuff just not fun anymore konami need to install that back the keepers are shitttt they need to be solid again.
 
The basic control method currently in use will stay. Most players are completely used to it and rely on it. Trying to do away with that will lose Konami a lot of customers.

Given the basic control method must at least be an option, the question is how to make a manual control system good enough to be competitive with the basic one? Competitive in the sense using manual control won't make it significantly harder to win matches compared with the basic one. If it doesn't help people in match situations, it will most likely become a feature that may sound great but is rarely used.

I personally doubt whether this can be achieved with current controllers. In my experience, most of my frustrations with the basic control comes when it doesn't put the final pass in the right place to set up a shot. I used to think a manual passing control should be helpful but now I believe otherwise. Defensive gaps in the situations I'm referring to usually only open up for a second or so. A passing control that requires me to make precise control over direction and force with an analog stick is likely to add time lag both in my decision making and execution. I'm better off focusing my mind on how to stay away from tackles, making the correct decision on when to pass, press a simple button quickly, and see what comes of it.

Regarding the "on track" running, I think they do it for good. There are of course annoying moments which they try to alleviate with "super cancel", but total free control may leave many people missing the ball. It may not be so easy to control your player, steer him on a steady path, and meet a moving ball. Camera movement during a pass may also add to the difficulty.

If I'm to suggest an addition, it'd be a way to design some templates of player movements that can be easily triggered in match. CPU teammates tend to be quite static. It could be interesting to design some orchestrated movement patterns. It can be added as part of the strategy system.
 
Puschkin said:
Imagine that Henry passes near your defenders every single time..then you would be bitchin why your defenders cant stop Henry..does Henry run past every single defender in every real life game? Everyone is chaseable and stopable. Ok, you said slow defenders, and I know what you are talking about, but still..we all play the game cause fifa is even greater shite.
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Woah woah woah! I didnt ask for this!
 
winston and drekkard - good points allround. Nice to read some comments of value here!
Was getting pissed off with the winning eleven next gen thread with people gong on about "changeable weather" being the next big thing!! Arrrgh!

I agree with you guys, more freedom, less ( but still some) scripting. I dont think the game will be fun with complete free control. more variety as well in players control/trap ability, richochets, loose balls, tackles etc
 
I'm not entirely sure just how unplayable and difficult the game would be if it were made wholly analogue. I seem to recall Football Kingdom had a system certainly more analogue than PES and people were complimentary rather then despairing at the difficulty of mastering the contols. Likewise with FIFA07 on xbox360, although I, myself, have not played it, the concensus seemed to be favourable.

The thought has occurred to me that, if fully analgoue play does indeed make the game more difficult, that could be used as an alternative to the current means of increasing the difficulty of the game using the star system. So, rather than the current system of basically introducing more and more cpu cheats as you increase the stars, and all the anger and frustration that that engenders, manily as a result of feeling cheating and having control removed from you, the AI model should remain the same but control would be more fully analogue as you increase the stars, thus making play more difficult.

This is obviously a simplified explanation and more subtle implementation involving the AI would be required but I personally feel that I'd rather playing on 6* meant I had to master a difficult but fair analogue control, therefore requiring greater manual dexterity but where it is still my input that decides what my players do, than feeling that the game is going into an increasingly scripted cheat mode with the AI team stats being boosted unrealisitcally and my players behaving as if they were in quicksand and the laws of physics being manipulated to favour the cpu team.

Of course, it's not going to happen but I would at least hope that Seabass eventually has some thoughts about how to slacken off the scripted nature of the play.
 
That sounds as a good idea, Winston. I also would like to be able to control things such as high chipped long passes better, being able AGAIN to chip keepers with technically skilled players and be able lo lob the ball EASILY if the keeper is almost out of the area.

Supercancel needs to be performed easy and effective again, please, now it's like moving big boats on open ocean.

About the press button, it's ages since I think it shouldn't move a random player to the ball, because right now you never now which player will move to the ball! The thing to do would be that pressing square makes all of your team to close spaces around the ball, the nearest players more agressively and far players almost unnoticed. That would represent the real tactics of closing spaces. It would work great to trap isolated attackers and in midfield it would work great to difficult your opponent combinations. Interestingly, that would open the door to clever long passes to break pressure, like in real life, thus making long passes much more useful into the game (and they should be difficult, I mean long passes should work to the space, not the boots of a player).

All that are things that would add depth to the game, and more variety.
 
GMT8 said:
The basic control method currently in use will stay. Most players are completely used to it and rely on it. Trying to do away with that will lose Konami a lot of customers.

Given the basic control method must at least be an option, the question is how to make a manual control system good enough to be competitive with the basic one? Competitive in the sense using manual control won't make it significantly harder to win matches compared with the basic one. If it doesn't help people in match situations, it will most likely become a feature that may sound great but is rarely used.

I personally doubt whether this can be achieved with current controllers. In my experience, most of my frustrations with the basic control comes when it doesn't put the final pass in the right place to set up a shot. I used to think a manual passing control should be helpful but now I believe otherwise. Defensive gaps in the situations I'm referring to usually only open up for a second or so. A passing control that requires me to make precise control over direction and force with an analog stick is likely to add time lag both in my decision making and execution. I'm better off focusing my mind on how to stay away from tackles, making the correct decision on when to pass, press a simple button quickly, and see what comes of it.

Regarding the "on track" running, I think they do it for good. There are of course annoying moments which they try to alleviate with "super cancel", but total free control may leave many people missing the ball. It may not be so easy to control your player, steer him on a steady path, and meet a moving ball. Camera movement during a pass may also add to the difficulty.

If I'm to suggest an addition, it'd be a way to design some templates of player movements that can be easily triggered in match. CPU teammates tend to be quite static. It could be interesting to design some orchestrated movement patterns. It can be added as part of the strategy system.
Click to expand...

Great post!! Balanced, well informed and well thought out. Unlike most of the emotive, unrealistic rants on this thread.
 
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