The Doctor76
Premier League
Exactly - they could easily release a demo that features a few teams and that's it. No; let's shaft the PC gamers instead.
No PC demo for PES 2014?
- Thread starter KopOut
- Start date
Exactly - they could easily release a demo that features a few teams and that's it. No; let's shaft the PC gamers instead.
Two more things regarding this comment: Obviously Konami would have taken that into account. So if they're not concerned about losing sales to EA, why are you? How successful they are at running their business isn't your concern.
Also, if you're that quick to abandon PES for FIFA, what does that really say about your interest in PES 2014? If you're as fired up about PES 2014 as you say you are, you wouldn't touch the FIFA demo, let alone consider buying that game, until after you've had a chance to at least play the PES demo.
It's pretty time-consuming to remove unneeded content. Someone would have to check every single file whether it's necessary or not, then the whole build would need to be tested in Quality Control... I would rather want KONAMI's employees to work on the full game instead of the demo version.
The Doctor76
Premier League
OK, what about some sort of time lock on it then if they're so concerned? There are all sorts of ways round this and yet they choose to deny us the demo - we're their customers as well...
- Staff
- #35
Please take a good look at these figures (taken from Konami's financial statements, http://www.konami.co.jp/en/ir/ir-data/meeting/2013/0509_517714.pdf - figures should be legit, faking them in official financial statements is a serious crime in capitalist world, isn't it?) and tell me that you still believe that there is a 'well-meaning majority' in PC player base. If that pathetic one (1!) percent represents 'well-meaning majority' on PC that buys the games, then PC shouldn't even be considered as a serious gaming platform. These figures more likely represent 'well-meaning minority' that actually buys the games on PC.
What I'd really like to see is a similar platform breakdown for PES demo downloads. Free demo, which anyone can legally obtain. Am I being too optimistic if I expected PC share to be at least comparable to the XBox? Easily around twenty percent? And when do they all disappear when it comes to buying the full game? That's our 'ill-meaning majority', I'm afraid.
jammiedodger
Premier League
Get your facts straight mate Jenkey could have unlocked game modes if he wished but he didn't as he thought it would be a taking it a step too far.
Bad news for us that unlocking teams was that step over the line.
Negatrev
Premier League
- 19 September 2003
Please take a good look at these figures (taken from Konami's financial statements, http://www.konami.co.jp/en/ir/ir-data/meeting/2013/0509_517714.pdf - figures should be legit, faking them in official financial statements is a serious crime in capitalist world, isn't it?) and tell me that you still believe that there is a 'well-meaning majority' in PC player base. If that pathetic one (1!) percent represents 'well-meaning majority' on PC that buys the games, then PC shouldn't even be considered as a serious gaming platform. These figures more likely represent 'well-meaning minority' that actually buys the games on PC.
What I'd really like to see is a similar platform breakdown for PES demo downloads. Free demo, which anyone can legally obtain. Am I being too optimistic if I expected PC share to be at least comparable to the XBox? Easily around twenty percent? And when do they all disappear when it comes to buying the full game? That's our 'ill-meaning majority', I'm afraid.
I think you're missing the point here. There was no suggestion that most PES players play on a PC. It was that most PES PC players (the well meaning majority) BUY the game, in comparison to the few that just play a hacked demo/cracked game. Unfortunately with this 'dark' minority it's more a case of if they couldn't get a dodgy version, I suspect they wouldn't play at all, rather than converting them to buyers; but that's a whole different argument
On the subject of your data sheet. I have no doubt that console games sell more than PC due to the ease of use. But your statistics are flawed. As that platform split is based on ALL Konami games (Including quite clearly Metal Gear) and a fair few Konami games are console, or even PS3 exclusives. Which will mean using this to work out the percentage of PES PC players compared to console players is invalid. I'm not sure there are ANY Konami games which are only on PC.
Well, what about this video then?
YouTube - PES 2013 First Demo - All menu mode preview
And no, "he didn't release it" is not a valid excuse.
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-Panos-
Premier League
I twitted those for that matter, I'm also posting them here:
KONAMI is the one to blame for last years PC Demo hacking.
They had included EVERYTHING within the game's files, so as a result, modders saw those files and unlocked them.
However, after the second demo release, the same modders tried to mod the PS3 demo files, but guess what, KONAMI was prepared and had scrambled all unnecessary data from the game.
So it's actually their fault for everything that went public from the first DEMO.
Even EA Sports had encrypted their PC Demo files last year.
They could do the same for PC Demo this year and not punish the PC users.
I'm not a PC user myself, but I am 1 of the modders (for the wehellas patch that was the first that released the 100+ teams mod).
In other words, I just want to say that people "pay" the fact that KONAMI was careless last year.
KONAMI is the one to blame for last years PC Demo hacking.
They had included EVERYTHING within the game's files, so as a result, modders saw those files and unlocked them.
However, after the second demo release, the same modders tried to mod the PS3 demo files, but guess what, KONAMI was prepared and had scrambled all unnecessary data from the game.
So it's actually their fault for everything that went public from the first DEMO.
Even EA Sports had encrypted their PC Demo files last year.
They could do the same for PC Demo this year and not punish the PC users.
I'm not a PC user myself, but I am 1 of the modders (for the wehellas patch that was the first that released the 100+ teams mod).
In other words, I just want to say that people "pay" the fact that KONAMI was careless last year.
- Staff
- #40
I think you're missing the point here. There was no suggestion that most PES players play on a PC. It was that most PES PC players (the well meaning majority) BUY the game, in comparison to the few that just play a hacked demo/cracked game. Unfortunately with this 'dark' minority it's more a case of if they couldn't get a dodgy version, I suspect they wouldn't play at all, rather than converting them to buyers; but that's a whole different argument
I was only responding to the general phrase 'well-meaning majority' of the PC PES players, most not being pirates and intending to buy the game. I didn't even quote entire post Jamezinho made so that people wouldn't make the assumption that I'm suggesting or defending the view that most PES players play on a PC. Neither did I refer to the hacked demo from last year - but to the PES demo in general. Maybe you misunderstood my point?
I'm aware that these statistics aren't completely accurate because they include entire Konami production, including console exclusives too. So let's compensate a little bit - let's use Konami's 'Soccer' category as sole representative of Konami's PC market. There's one game only in that category, right? PES. And this is probably the only category with any significant PC share. 'Soccer' category amounts to slightly less than 50% of 2013 sales, so shall we double the global PC percentage to compensate? Or even triple it, just to be more generous? 1% in total of 13.5 mil. units is roughly equivalent to 2.5% in total of 6 mil. units.
So is it then 2.5%-3% max for PC share in PES units sold? About 150000 copies for PC sold worldwide? That's supposed to be entire PC player base of PES? Are we really that small? Something doesn't add-up.
That's why I said I'd like to see the breakdown of figures for the downloads of last year's demo. As an indicator of an interest for the game. Yes, we don't know those figures, but would I be so much wrong if I presume that users across all three major platforms are more or less equally interested in playing PES? So where do most of the PC players that show interest in PES demo disappear when it comes to final sales figures? Should be pretty obvious - piracy.
That was my unfortunate point - that we, PC players who actually buy the game, are well-meaning minority, not majority.
NikoLiberty4
Premier League
zlac, your point is pretty obvious when PES is one of the most popular PC games, but at the same time one of the least played games online.
But even in this case, we shouldn't blame PC users. Again, Konami is the problem here. They have to realize that until they add actual value and reasons to buy their PC games, this situation will never change.
Currently the ones who buy PES on PC don't feel as premium customers, because legit and cracked versions are the same (I learnt this with PES 2012). I, as a customer, don't actually lose anything (apart from a broken online) with a cracked version, and anyway I'll probably go and download a patch, which makes online useless unless I switch modes over and over again.
The current situation is so ridiculous that I feel the modding community deserves my money more than Konami. The former releases patches, gameplay mods, graphics, rosters, stats, kits, stadiums, etc. The latter only releases a Xbox 360 port of PES and call it a day. No advanced PC settings, no mouse-driven UI, no LAN, no modding tools, nothing.
In the end, they deserved this. But as always, they can do a 180 whenever they want, if they actually want.
But even in this case, we shouldn't blame PC users. Again, Konami is the problem here. They have to realize that until they add actual value and reasons to buy their PC games, this situation will never change.
Currently the ones who buy PES on PC don't feel as premium customers, because legit and cracked versions are the same (I learnt this with PES 2012). I, as a customer, don't actually lose anything (apart from a broken online) with a cracked version, and anyway I'll probably go and download a patch, which makes online useless unless I switch modes over and over again.
The current situation is so ridiculous that I feel the modding community deserves my money more than Konami. The former releases patches, gameplay mods, graphics, rosters, stats, kits, stadiums, etc. The latter only releases a Xbox 360 port of PES and call it a day. No advanced PC settings, no mouse-driven UI, no LAN, no modding tools, nothing.
In the end, they deserved this. But as always, they can do a 180 whenever they want, if they actually want.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Guess I'll have to play the demo on my 360. It's not like I care...
N
nesa24
Guest
so rude to point at jenkey
for PES12 demo was leaked
http://www.moddingway.com/forums/thread-971.html
for PES13 demo was way improved gameplay than retail version
PC was never solid sales platform for allmost any game compared to consoles
as of date, 15.09.2010 was demo date for PES11
**
Adam Bhatti (@Adam_Bhatti)
now that person..
he has given soo many mislead info..
only if he could remember what he wrote about/againt KONAMI past year...
**
at end of day i think that this is just buying time and i am sure that PC version will have very very very diferent gamplay compared to consoles
for PES12 demo was leaked
http://www.moddingway.com/forums/thread-971.html
for PES13 demo was way improved gameplay than retail version
PC was never solid sales platform for allmost any game compared to consoles
as of date, 15.09.2010 was demo date for PES11
**
Adam Bhatti (@Adam_Bhatti)
now that person..
he has given soo many mislead info..
only if he could remember what he wrote about/againt KONAMI past year...
**
at end of day i think that this is just buying time and i am sure that PC version will have very very very diferent gamplay compared to consoles
WTF? KONAMI isn't giving you enough reasons to buy the game? They are creating the game we all play, this alone should be reason enough to buy it. The whole modding community is just building upon what KONAMI has created.
Your reasoning is ridiculous. You can't justify piracy.
Thank you, I was going to write the same thing. Ridiculous how some people on these gaming sites try and justify pirating games.
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MadbaLL
Interista per sempre!
if i were konami, i would never release demo for any console.
the reason is that since they started releasing demos, final version is always worser than demo because of poor user feedback (moaning).
the reason is that since they started releasing demos, final version is always worser than demo because of poor user feedback (moaning).
juce
Champions League
- 7 November 2003
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
Looks like the PC demo conversation is over, so ignore my post if you are sick of hearing about it. However, i felt like there are things that must be said. To no one in particular, just to all of you.
And Lami, just for the record, i'm not trolling here. And neither was nesa24.
the comment from Adam about demo not being available due to modding of demo last year and revealing of licenses: i don't know whether to believe that or not. Sounds like he's telling the truth this time, but if that's so, it's an appalling statement. As people here already noted, if licenses is really a concern, it is trivial for Konami to release a demo on PC with just unlicensed teams, and _not_ include the full database in the executable and game files. It is not hard to do. I think there's another reason for why they don't want to release PC demo before the full game release. They just don't want to tell us. Maybe it's not ready.. maybe it's something else. To be fair - there is nothing wrong with not releasing the demo and not telling why. What rubbed me the wrong way was that they decided to present it as if it was the fans and the modders fault. I find that incredibly sad and stupid.
And one last thing. To all of you, who say that if modders didn't touch the demo, we'd have it today:
Maybe. Maybe not. What i know for a fact is that every year since PES 3, when the demo was released, there was immediate outcry for more minutes, more teams, different cameras, updated kits, etc. Modders who did all these little tools and programs were good guys then. Now you turn back to these people and say "hey, it's all your fault for don't have a demo!". Shame on you.
That's all i had to say. Thanks for reading.
Looks like the PC demo conversation is over, so ignore my post if you are sick of hearing about it. However, i felt like there are things that must be said. To no one in particular, just to all of you.
And Lami, just for the record, i'm not trolling here. And neither was nesa24.
the comment from Adam about demo not being available due to modding of demo last year and revealing of licenses: i don't know whether to believe that or not. Sounds like he's telling the truth this time, but if that's so, it's an appalling statement. As people here already noted, if licenses is really a concern, it is trivial for Konami to release a demo on PC with just unlicensed teams, and _not_ include the full database in the executable and game files. It is not hard to do. I think there's another reason for why they don't want to release PC demo before the full game release. They just don't want to tell us. Maybe it's not ready.. maybe it's something else. To be fair - there is nothing wrong with not releasing the demo and not telling why. What rubbed me the wrong way was that they decided to present it as if it was the fans and the modders fault. I find that incredibly sad and stupid.
And one last thing. To all of you, who say that if modders didn't touch the demo, we'd have it today:
Maybe. Maybe not. What i know for a fact is that every year since PES 3, when the demo was released, there was immediate outcry for more minutes, more teams, different cameras, updated kits, etc. Modders who did all these little tools and programs were good guys then. Now you turn back to these people and say "hey, it's all your fault for don't have a demo!". Shame on you.
That's all i had to say. Thanks for reading.
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
I defo think it's the modders fault that PC demo is out late this year - it's not their fault it's not out now, it would only come out as early as the console demos. I'm not ashamed though (@juce) because I don't feel shame over trivial sh*t like that. It's a game, the demo is late this year, big f-ing deal.
I don't know why Konami have left in a database in previous demos for modders to get to, but then again I am not a programmer and I have no idea how easy or hard it is to make a videogame demo of any kind. People seem to think Konami are somehow dumb in this regard, but maybe it just took less manpower to make the demo this way, and they were trying to save a few bucks.
I defo think it's the modders fault that PC demo is out late this year - it's not their fault it's not out now, it would only come out as early as the console demos. I'm not ashamed though (@juce) because I don't feel shame over trivial sh*t like that. It's a game, the demo is late this year, big f-ing deal.
I don't know why Konami have left in a database in previous demos for modders to get to, but then again I am not a programmer and I have no idea how easy or hard it is to make a videogame demo of any kind. People seem to think Konami are somehow dumb in this regard, but maybe it just took less manpower to make the demo this way, and they were trying to save a few bucks.
Thespeedster84
Champions League
- 4 October 2010
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
Hi Juce
If only Adam just said PC demo released later after PS3 and Xbox 360 instead of what he just mentioned.. the situation should be better.. However, Konami still loves us i believe, they still intend to release it on PC anyway.
Konami Europe should read this i guess, anyway you like what you see regarding PES 2014 juce ?
Hi Juce
If only Adam just said PC demo released later after PS3 and Xbox 360 instead of what he just mentioned.. the situation should be better.. However, Konami still loves us i believe, they still intend to release it on PC anyway.
Konami Europe should read this i guess, anyway you like what you see regarding PES 2014 juce ?
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Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
Welcome Sr. Juce.
Only KONAMI is trolling on us, with that sarcasam of date releases and demo's.
Welcome Sr. Juce.
Only KONAMI is trolling on us, with that sarcasam of date releases and demo's.
asperas
Banned
- 26 April 2011
- Dinamo Bucharest
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
@juce
modders kept the game alive .. without the involvement of those boys lazy kONAMI would not have counted millions..
@jucemodders kept the game alive .. without the involvement of those boys lazy kONAMI would not have counted millions..
jammiedodger
Premier League
And what is that showing? that he can flick thru the menu's?
Not really unlocking all the game modes that mate.
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
Sorry juce but you're being too emotional here and mixing up things.
No one "turned their backs" on you. Everyone's thankful for your modding skills.
But on the other hand, Konami had licenses, and these were revealed too soon. Someone wasn't happy and threatened. Now Konami as a company wouldn't want that to happen again. How they do it is up to them, whether they add another layer of security or just delay or not release the demo at all. This is a business decision. No emotions here.
The problem here is you're mixing these business decisions with what you guys have been doing to mod this game for many years. In addition, there are millions who have nothing to do with your mods, believe it or not. So why shame them? No shame here whatsoever.
Thanks for what you and other have done in the PC community throughout the years. People will always ask for more goodness and you were kind enough. Sadly, that didn't sit well with last year's demo, affecting this year's demo delay.
Good news is, the demo's still coming, and the retail version is as always coming to PC. Mod it all you want as usual and enjoy.
Sorry juce but you're being too emotional here and mixing up things.
No one "turned their backs" on you. Everyone's thankful for your modding skills.
But on the other hand, Konami had licenses, and these were revealed too soon. Someone wasn't happy and threatened. Now Konami as a company wouldn't want that to happen again. How they do it is up to them, whether they add another layer of security or just delay or not release the demo at all. This is a business decision. No emotions here.
The problem here is you're mixing these business decisions with what you guys have been doing to mod this game for many years. In addition, there are millions who have nothing to do with your mods, believe it or not. So why shame them? No shame here whatsoever.
Thanks for what you and other have done in the PC community throughout the years. People will always ask for more goodness and you were kind enough. Sadly, that didn't sit well with last year's demo, affecting this year's demo delay.
Good news is, the demo's still coming, and the retail version is as always coming to PC. Mod it all you want as usual and enjoy.
N
nesa24
Guest
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
based on what i know and sure of demo delay = not ready state
they are just buying time with hope to improve it
thanks for your post mate
shame on those that called me insane or making up things just to have my 5 mins of lamelight
dont know how i got to get it but i stay with i have said
thanks again and hope that you will return to kitserver becouse only you can deliver it 100% working
cheers master
based on what i know and sure of demo delay = not ready state
they are just buying time with hope to improve it
thanks for your post mate
shame on those that called me insane or making up things just to have my 5 mins of lamelight
dont know how i got to get it but i stay with i have said
thanks again and hope that you will return to kitserver becouse only you can deliver it 100% working
cheers master
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
Sorry to disappoint you mate but that's not right.
Check this zlac posted earlier in this page and you'll know where the real millions are coming from.
modders kept the game alive .. without the involvement of those boys lazy kONAMI would not have counted millions..
Sorry to disappoint you mate but that's not right.
Check this zlac posted earlier in this page and you'll know where the real millions are coming from.
That doesn't matter, it shows his intent to do so.
Nik
ARHS na goustaris!
Re: PES 2014 Discussion Thread
I completely agree with you, master Juce. There is definitely a different reason for not releasing a PC demo, but we can't do anything at this point and also it isn't hat big of a deal, after all the demo is just one week before the official release.
I completely agree with you, master Juce
. There is definitely a different reason for not releasing a PC demo, but we can't do anything at this point and also it isn't hat big of a deal, after all the demo is just one week before the official release.
Arsenal4Life
Premier League
- 6 February 2006
- The Gunners
I really hope that the community get's behind the modders rather than insult them by sending them private messages and nonsense like that. I don't know if that's happening but it seems it might be which is absurd to say the least. Were all disappointed about the demo news. But that is in no way the modders fault and chasing them away is not the way to go about it. Without these individuals the pc version we play everyday wouldn't even be playable after the first month of release.