No love for it :(

T

timsmith10000

LEICESTER CITY!
18 August 2003
Leicester
My first proper football game was fifa 2000 on the ps1...after a few months I purchased ISS2 and my love of Konami's games started.

With each yearly update, you get excited and when you play the game you notice all the neat new flicks and tricks, all the new animations, even noticing the referee having a pencil etc!

PES 2008 came and after all the Seabass talk of "ps2 pushed to its limits" I could not wait for the PS3 version. I think we can all agree that it was nothing special. On pes6 I played over 250 online matches. In pes2008, I played 6. Yes 6. So it went from playing loads of games daily to virtually none. "dramatic overhaul for pes 2009" was the next line...and I thought they would have learnt from their mistakes, and having had the ps3 for a while, thought they would really push it.

PES2009 arrived yesterday, and as ever, was excited. I have now had the game for 24 hours and am bored. I haven't noticed anything fun and exciting, nothing to say "ohh look, they didn't have that before" just stale. I have been playing a few games online, thankfully lag was non existant, but out of the 6 games, 4 people chose man utd. It's just ridiculous with Rooney, Ronaldo etc, They are unstoppable. For me and the opposition. Out of the 6 games, the lowest score has been 3-0.

ISS2 and FIFA 2000 were totally opposites. You would just hammer triangle on fifa and run the entire length of the pitch and blast it in. ISS2 was about patient passing and finding holes. Now roles have reversed. PES2009 offers NOTHING in defence or midfield. Whenever you get the ball, it is just RUN RUN RUN down the wing, cut inside and score. I don't claim to be a wizard at the game, but even on top player difficulty, I feel no pressure against my goal. I want to be losing 3-0 but it just doesn't happen.

I bought fifa 2009 on monday, and was dissapointed at how much i enjoyed it. Yes, i was dissapointed. I tried pointing out faults and backing up PES, but then I thought, why bother? PES hasn't evolved, and I don't feel the enjoyment anymore. Master league used to be amazing. Absolutely brilliant, but it has been identical for about 5 years. Become a legend? We get greeted with the message "play well to attract big clubs" well after playing the training match I got the same 3 clubs offer me a deal as in the videos I saw on the internet. So its just scripted bullsheet.

So after 9 years of being a PESFAN. And defending the game to the hill, I finally admit that Fifa is the better game. Pains me to say it, but it is. PES still has the core gameplay for brilliance, but the whole package is pathetic. They are using such an old engine, the 8 way movement is just poor. Just running in straight lines.

:( I am gutted :( I have thought about selling pes, but don't want to ruin my collection! Just make 2010 a good year :)

:BORED:
 
It's a let down i agree.

It isn't that i dislike the game i mean it has it's moments but it's becoming a tired rehash of what it once was. I feel i tolerate this game now as opposed to actually enjoying it.
 
I agree too. Joyfactor lost..

For me pes 6 (pc) remains the football game this year too.

I won't spend that much for ps3 and hd tv only for a game (fifa 09) I haven't tried.

I tried pes 2009 on pc and thanks it's enough. Played group stage CL with Barca. In the six games (10 minutes each) I scored some 25 goals, won all the matches, Eto alone scored 7 and wasn't on the top of the goal rankings, there was rooney with 14 goals (after group stage). I managed to score 2 freekick goals with daniel alves in one game. I only scored one freekick goal in 1,5 year on pes 6 in competition games (lots of woodworks tough..) The 6 games saw at least 8 red cards..

What can I say, completely unbalanced, broken gameplay..

What's more: Goalkeepers parried 99 percent of the shots, they are unable of holding the ball, goal nets, no licenses, roosters, no advantage rule, ANIMATIONS MY FUCKING GOD? HOW IDIOT IT LOOKS etc etc etc..

For comparision see the 2k sports website: There are forums on the official site, where the developers join the conversations...

I'm still considering the ps2 version, unfortunately very little info available
 
Normally i dont post in this forum but....
i agree too.its the same thing for me. i have both games and after playing fifa for a week it was very hard to get to pes again, though im a pes6 addict(skipped 2008). Fifa feels more fluid and the new pes feels like, somebody said it before, that the players are on railways. I liked the Championsleague. Had a few dramatic games on it. Online for now is a disgrace. No Groups, no ranked 2vs2, no Competitons, lag, no editable ingame chat...I hope they will patch it to make online fun again (like pes6).
Dammit i have to play more.. i cant just give up and go back to playing fifa online :CURSE: i know this ones better than 2008.. shouldnt have bought fifa and i wouldnt be disappointed, lol.
 
I must admit. I find myself, wantin so badly to love after playing every game for the last 10 years but there is nothing new.

FIFA however has everything.
I feel confused :(
 
if you could dribble on Fifa like you can on PES, then FIFA I think would be THE game, apart from dribling and the individuality of the players etc which PES does with ease there are very few benefits of PES these days, especially after the past 2 years performance
 
Can we please get a violin for these folks here. They all seem heart broken. Cry me a river will you?

PES/WE will always be the game for me.
 
Too agreement with you pal. I spent so much time waiting and anticipating for a game that are so called 'BEST REALISTIC FOOTBALL GAME EVER'.. And it came out to be like 'BEST JOKE OF THE YEAR?' The game play has not improved AT ALL. True.. the squarish dribbling is like running st lines. Now that the shooting always go high or low only. It's Damn FREAKING BORING! I reckon fifa would be much nicer, with more updated squads, 'more realism' on the player faces. Oh that said, wtf is konami waiting for to at least keep the squads UPDATED??? Not even the squad numbers is being updated.. TOTALLY DISGRACE Man KONAMI!
 
You know that saying, good things never last too long ?? Same for Konami. They will be always remembered for delivering one of the greatest gameplays of all time, the real football simulation on PS2. Ever since next-gen, they just died. RIP. Konami - you will be dearly missed.
 
mdma11 said:
Can we please get a violin for these folks here. They all seem heart broken. Cry me a river will you?

PES/WE will always be the game for me.
Click to expand...

Thats a closed minded attitude... you are saying that regardless of what PES becomes it will always be the game for you, even if it turns into the worst soccer game ever made...
 
chizzer said:
Fifa has 8 way movement too. It's just the shooting that isn't.
Click to expand...

I agree
But fifa have very good animation, and smaller Pitch, player move more slowly on the ground, proportions isn't respected, but it's a good way to make all the other parameters much more realistic (like motion capture)

Edit: if you want to dribble in fifa like in pes, just dribble with the "slow dribble" button (L2 in the "basic" config, R2 for me)
 
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timsmith10000 said:
They are using such an old engine, the 8 way movement is just poor. Just running in straight lines.
:BORED:
Click to expand...
Agree with you totally. Like you say the movements really poor and the animation is horrible. Something’s seriously wrong when I enjoy PES6 on PC more because of its smother and better gameplay.
The fact is Konami cant make a Next Generation PES they have now had three attempts and failed but they still charge the full price for a game that’s gameplay is not as good as former PS2 games.
Ive gone over to Fifa 09 its great and I wont even consider buying Pro Evolution again unless Konami produce the goods and that means a totally new game engine with Next Generation graphics.
 
i don't think fifa is a good game. although it's much improved from the past it has many weaknesses. gameplay is too predictable, you must play in certain way to score and win, stats don't make any difference from one player to another and the most important to me: this game never suprise you, never happens something unexpected, it's like chess and football games have one important factor: luck! It's slight better than pes2009 but definitely not a game with thrilling gameplay like pes5 or even pes6.
But.. I totally agree with you for pes series. konami prefer to produce an arcade football game nowadays contrarily to the beggining of series iss pro evolution. the sooner konami realise that fans wants simulation the better for them cause pes games goes from bad to worse...
 
I too am so dissapointed with PES 09 and also converted to FIFA 09, which certainly isn´t perfect in all respects but is a far more satisfying and enjoyable football game than PES.
In my world PES has lost its magic touch and Konami need to improve PES if they want my money next season.
 
To call it a let down is an understatement.
Damn Konami in high school you was the man homie, the f**k happened to you?
 
I posted this in another forum but I think its also relevant here.


I had the game and sold it already. The reason is the 'Other game' just feels better to me. I don't want to bash Pro Evo 2009, I have played ISS/Pro Evo/Winning Eleven since the days of the SNES but I feel Konami cannot work well with this current gen of consoles and it really saddens me to say this. When the 360 and PS3 were announced I had visions of how great Pro Evo would be after the fantastic PS2 versions, and for me at least, the three versions that have been released on the 360 so far have not cut it. Pro Evo 2009, whist defiantly better than last years still doesn't feel right, the animations are mostly still the ones from the PS2 version and for some reason they don't move as well. I don't know why but the PS2 versions look more like real football than this. The players feel 'stiff' The keepers make good saves but cannot hold on to anything, this leads to a lot of rebounds being scored still. I am also not a fan of the tricks being assigned on the dpad as I feel it leads people to over use them. Online was no improvement on last years for me, screen tearing players being invisible for a couple seconds, yes I know there is meant to be a patch but I fell for that last year and it was never sorted. Also why must the difficulty level be stuck on beginner for online games? Online game seem to be a goal fest as most opponents pick Manchester United/Inter/Barcelona and run with the fast players. I know things can be easily be updated, but the out of date team line-ups should be a thing of the past by now surly. The Champions Leagues is nice to have but feels like it was just rushed into the game at the last minute especially with lots of unlicensed teams being there North London v Zenit Saint Petersburg sound just plain wrong. Hopefully they will get more licenses as DLC, I know Ath Madrid are coming in a couple weeks.

It is not a bad game as such, but thats how it plays now, like a game, not real football. Maybe my expectations are too high, but it doesn't meet them and hasn't done for a while. I don't really want to mention the 'other game' again but whist not perfect does many things better and is playable online.
That is just my opinion, I see there are lots of people who are loving it which is great, but for me the series has been in Devolution rather than Evolution but really needs a Revolution.
Despite all my negativity, I would still advise people to try the game because it seems to have a Marmite feel to it, you either love it or hate it.
I see Pro Evo now as a sort of Liverpool of the mid 90's. After years of domestic dominance, all of a sudden the competition has stepped up a gear and is beginning to leave them behind lets hope it doesn't take Konami 18+ years to get the title back!
 
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PES09 a complete joke...
can't do manual GK anymore,
in PES08, we can't change direction on long pass freekick (but it's there on the move list)
now in PES09, the bug hasn't fixed and we got another bug, can't change direction on shooting freekick...

it's like konami just tweak some variable on the same engine...
make the passes slower, shots also slower, GK more superb. and then on the next version, they make it faster, gK less superb, and so on and so on...

the move is way too scripted...

the only thing that makes me happy is that the make long pass slower and higher so that manual pass feels like L1+/\ this should be done long ago, manual pass in PES08 is too fast and low you can score with it...

i hated fifa and now i hate it more coz they make a better game than konami... i don't want to buy fifa09 but i'm considering selling this PES09. waiting for next PES/WE is still better than to play FIFA series... maybe i'm stupid but i'm a konami-fanatic football gamer and i'm still hoping they will make something decent...
 
Valmighty said:
...

it's like konami just tweak some variable on the same engine...
make the passes slower, shots also slower, GK more superb. and then on the next version, they make it faster, gK less superb, and so on and so on...

...
Click to expand...

I've been feeling this way for some time. From one version to the next, they change a lot of little things. However, looking over a longer period, I just feel many of the changes they make, e.g., game speed, ease of scoring headers etc. simply goes in cycles. Some years, they make the game faster, some years they make it slow. Some versions allow easy low pass from the flanks, some make it hard, so on and so forth. It doesn't feel like there is a clear sense of direction in many of the changes they make. The changes just seems to go in cycles to make the next version feels different and new.

Anyway, this year, a lot of people seem to agree FIFA09 is a better buy than PES09 on X360 and PS3. Reading some reports and doing a bit of arithmetic, the launch week sales in UK have a ratio like this:
PES 360 : PES PS3 : FIFA 360 : FIFA PS3 is roughly 1 : 1.45 : 2.66 : 2.53

Well, if PES09 does end up selling much less than FIFA09 overall on nextgen consoles, Konami may make bigger changes next time.
 
Jesus, just be chuffed that FIFA is now producing the best gameplay of any footy game EVER. PES used to be about simulation, but this latest FIFA (despite having minor issues) is the best there has ever been. You don't need an HD telly to enjoy it either - I've got a PS3 and a 21" standard telly and I'm thoroughly enjoying it - well worth the HP payments! Plus having games like Far Cry 2 and Fallout 3 will help to make the investment seem more worthwhile.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Where does this misguided loyalty come from? Do you think Konami give a damn about you? Stop acting like a football fan supporting his team and start acting like the consumer that Konami treat you as... with a big dollop of contempt from the look of their latest effort.
I used to play ISS back in the day when the first incarnation came out on the PS1 right through to 2008 at which popint i played FIFA at a mates and realised it was the better game. Just enjoy it!
 
Sad when people turns fanatic. Fanatics have always been a brake to progress.

PES will continue to be mediocre as long as they:
- Mantain 8 directions for everything
- Mantain the same scripted-passing and shooting routines. EA ripped them by adding the Manual controls.
- Keep the dodgy ball physics (EA grabbed the Konami best programmers 2 years ago to produce the new engine and it payed to them. Konami I'm sure they signed just some youngsters, as cheap as they could).
- Keep the infamous collision routines
- Don't invest in animations. We're talking about THOUSANDS of new animations, just as EA did.
- Keep an outdated graphics engine
- Continue to make AMATEURISH sound design. Simply unacceptable.
- They should learn how to do the ONLINE side of things. It's quite ridiculous the current situation.
- Keep ignoring its fanbase.

And that's only the most important things.

In short:
Konami should learn to invest and work as EA did.

I see a lot of people complainig about Fifa and they have never taken the time to play the game in manual, learn the depth of the game, or they simply don't WANT TO LIKE it, which I consider the most pathetic thing in videogaming. Some even say physics are shit in Fifa. They must be blind if they find PES physics more realistic, really. It's simply irrational. You can like PES more because it's an arcadish apporach and you simply want to put the game and score again and again, every attack is a clear chance.

Reality is (and that's a general consensus) that PES has turned into a very outdated game, with scripted gameplay that and frentic action that isn't at all a simulation. Even the authors says they don't try to simulate the real thing.

Fopr the record, I rented PES 09 to be able to talk about things properly and played for a week. I won the champions league on my first attempt at highest difficulty, scoring an average of 5 goals per game. Overall, I had no joy at all at scoring, knowing it was almost everything done by the scripts, not by me. Of course Fifa relies on scripts somehow, but the feeling when you master BOTH games is that Fifa let's you play as you want, while in PES you have to play as the game is designed to.

People talking about PES "magic" in the final third is ridiculous. Play Fifa for a week and I grant you will find the same amount of unpredictability. It's simply that you have to learn the ropes on how to play in manual / semi, which is the most important (and obvious improvement all fans were waiting for) thing added to football simulation, along with the tactical options of Fifa 09, that simply are amazing.

In PES, on the other hand, controls are prehistoric, it's simply a pick-n-play game where CPU does everything for you and you can score too easily. To me, it's a game oriented to kids, with no depth at all. You could have the same feeling if you play Fifa with all the controls assisted, only you won't be able to dribble all your opponents (which is a reasonable thing, anyway).

That were my 200 cents.
 
I wouldnt go far as sayinh no love for the game but theirs no fun in these games nothing like the old days of PES6 etc



What dissapoints me more than anything is the crap online part, why have konami used thier own Konami ID login along with anotehr login for the game, whats wrong with PSN ids for players like Call of Duty which keeps playing online so simple and effective, I read all the reviews and they made out online was fixed?



NO evolution here.
 
d'oh i miss the days when they release WE3 ---> WE4 ---> WE5 ---> WE6 ---> WE7
those were the real evolutions. euforia everywhere when konami released those new series, we can feel the "AMAZING!" when played those new series

even the final version of the series is much better than new version now. WE6 ---> WE6FE is still way much better than PES07 ---> PES08 ---> PES09

now the feel is gone... the "amazing!" feelings now turn "what the??"
 
I find it hard to beleive that people who are satisfied with PES2009 have played the likes of PES 2-6, or ISS PE 1 and 2. I'm sure people will tell me I'm wrong, saying they have played PES since the beginning and love this version, but I'd find it hard to believe. I think if you have played ISS PE 2, or PES 5 and 6, PES 2009 is dire in comparison. Maybe (and I emphasise MAYBE) certain things in PES 2009 are more realistic, but that does not make for a better game, a better simulation, or most importantly, an fun experience
 
09 is simply not fun

ps. and friends can't play as COM teams when doing an offline cup tourney. pathetic.
 
The PS2 version will probably be the cream of the crop again this year. I've held onto my PS2 for a couple of years purely because the PS2 versions of PES remain great games. Not much progression over previous years, true, but still fun to play rather than a struggle to enjoy the next gen versions.

I used to spend so many hours of my life making patches for the PC versions and I was truly, truly devastated to see what Konami have become. No effort is the best way to describe it, just no freaking effort.
 
drekkard said:
Sad when people turns fanatic. Fanatics have always been a brake to progress.

PES will continue to be mediocre as long as they:
- Mantain 8 directions for everything
- Mantain the same scripted-passing and shooting routines. EA ripped them by adding the Manual controls.
- Keep the dodgy ball physics (EA grabbed the Konami best programmers 2 years ago to produce the new engine and it payed to them. Konami I'm sure they signed just some youngsters, as cheap as they could).
- Keep the infamous collision routines
- Don't invest in animations. We're talking about THOUSANDS of new animations, just as EA did.
- Keep an outdated graphics engine
- Continue to make AMATEURISH sound design. Simply unacceptable.
- They should learn how to do the ONLINE side of things. It's quite ridiculous the current situation.
- Keep ignoring its fanbase.

And that's only the most important things.

In short:
Konami should learn to invest and work as EA did.

I see a lot of people complainig about Fifa and they have never taken the time to play the game in manual, learn the depth of the game, or they simply don't WANT TO LIKE it, which I consider the most pathetic thing in videogaming. Some even say physics are shit in Fifa. They must be blind if they find PES physics more realistic, really. It's simply irrational. You can like PES more because it's an arcadish apporach and you simply want to put the game and score again and again, every attack is a clear chance.

Reality is (and that's a general consensus) that PES has turned into a very outdated game, with scripted gameplay that and frentic action that isn't at all a simulation. Even the authors says they don't try to simulate the real thing.

Fopr the record, I rented PES 09 to be able to talk about things properly and played for a week. I won the champions league on my first attempt at highest difficulty, scoring an average of 5 goals per game. Overall, I had no joy at all at scoring, knowing it was almost everything done by the scripts, not by me. Of course Fifa relies on scripts somehow, but the feeling when you master BOTH games is that Fifa let's you play as you want, while in PES you have to play as the game is designed to.

People talking about PES "magic" in the final third is ridiculous. Play Fifa for a week and I grant you will find the same amount of unpredictability. It's simply that you have to learn the ropes on how to play in manual / semi, which is the most important (and obvious improvement all fans were waiting for) thing added to football simulation, along with the tactical options of Fifa 09, that simply are amazing.

In PES, on the other hand, controls are prehistoric, it's simply a pick-n-play game where CPU does everything for you and you can score too easily. To me, it's a game oriented to kids, with no depth at all. You could have the same feeling if you play Fifa with all the controls assisted, only you won't be able to dribble all your opponents (which is a reasonable thing, anyway).

That were my 200 cents.
Click to expand...

More manual you go, the less unpredictability you get...its a rule of logic...
After playing FIFA09 on the 360 at full manual I felt that PES had an edge in that department...because you can play same match with same people same condition of players same teams....same everything 10 times and you wont get the same result every time...
In fifa sadly EA hasnt grasped that from KONAMI (BTW where did you hear that developer grabbing of EA from KONAMI? Do you have a source to verify that?) the randomness factor in PES is on a much greater level than in FIFA...that and toghether with player to player differences are two key parts missing for FIFA to touch perfection...
FIngers crossed for FIFA10...
 
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