Next Gen Consoles

Placebo said:
LOL well done!

Must admit I'm not really fussed about always on internet (my 360 is always online when I'm playing it), nor really fussed about 2nd hand games being blocked, I almost never buy games second hand. I should add however that I don't agree in general with either of the "features" though, even if they don't affect me there's no way people should have to be online to play their games nor should they be unable to sell something on if they choose to do so, should be a basic consumer right IMO.
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This. It's a very important distinction to make. It shouldn't be about whether it affects you directly, but whether the change being made is a move against consumers as a group. The more that gets whittled away just because you don't particularly care, the more emboldened the company is going to be in removing things/charging for things in future, and the less support you will have when it's something you *do* like/want that they want to remove in future.

Companies/governments are great at removing a little bit of freedom at a time, so that each little chip away doesn't seem like much but over a large period of time you lose a lot, until it's too late to get back to where you were...
 
I'll be one disgruntled hombre if I have to play a Trials game with the unreliable DSL internet connection I'm forced to use. Not a good move MSFT!
 
If the "always-online" system means people will be unable to play any single player games without an internet connection, I can see that being an extremely damaging feature in terms of sales.

I don't think Microsoft are that stupid a company business-wise, until it's confirmed 100% by them then I remain doubtful.
 
To make it work they have to do things that while playing single player if your online connection drops for over 5-10mins then the game stops. Otherwise it is just alienating a whole group of the population of the world with not the best Internet.

It all just doesn't make sense, I can't believe Microsoft would let it slip this much and I assume they have quite a few things up their sleeves that will put our minds at ease.....if not a lot of people are going to go to PS4.
 
I'm going to call it now. They come out at their reveal.... Talk about the specs etc.... Then they mention how initially they did plan to have always online, no used games etc... But you gamers spoke and they listened so here you go.... Not always online, can play used etc.
It's all smoke and mirrors.
 
Rumours are that the new xbox is going to be made from this new material;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22079592

It will soak up anything you spill on it and they will fill the air pockets with helium so that it can float in the air and you can control the movement of the console with the Kinect....like a remote controlled Zeppelin. They did this so when the internet does go down, you still have something to play with and keep your minds active.

If it is true, then it goes some way to calming the fears that people are feeling.

They haven't mentioned the free pen yet, but I think it is only a matter of time.
 
In regards to the always on internet connection to play games.

First, I can understand why people are thinking that it will block the usage of 2nd hand games and lots of people are complaining about it. But with console games now, you get a code in order for you to be able to play online so when you buy FIFA 2nd hand you can't play it online anyway and have to buy a new code. The main issue I see with this, without 2nd hand games places like Game will charge a higher price and for longer without the availability of 2nd hand knowing they will get away with it. (I am in the publishers/developers corner though on this, the publishers and game designers lose a lot of money because of the 2nd hand game market, as all money goes to the Retailer)

Second, no one on here has mentioned piracy, people sometimes deny this but the XBOX is a massively pirated console, be honest and ask yourself how many people do you know with a hacked XBOX. Microsoft are probably trying to combat piracy just as much with the Always Online thing.

Third, Sim City is a massive talking point at the moment with PC Gamers because of EA's decision to include Always Online DRM with the game. I play PC games and know a lot of PC gamers, everyone was moaning about the always on DRM, but it has not caused any issues since the first week, and TBH I seriously doubt it has caused less sales for EA in fact I would say more people have bought the game. I know 6 people who have bought Sim City, who would probably normally of pirated the game because it wasn't available to pirate.

Last point, does always online really bother a lot of people? I am not bothered by it because when I use my Paper Weight 3 it is always connected to the internet, my PC always has to be connected to the internet in order for me to play my games, yes I know Steam does have an offline mode (maybe this is something the new XBOX should have, so on first run of the game you have to be connected, then you can go into Offline mode) but I rarely use the offline mode.

At the moment everything is just rumours and Microsoft are probably just testing the water to see how people react to suggestions before announcing their console.

That is just my opinions on the Always Online thing, I am sure lots will disagree with it.
 
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Good post, as I said a while ago, if all the rumours are fully true and the assumptions etc, then they would have got an advisor (or 10,000) to estimate how many people pirate games etc compared to how many they feel will not buy the new xbox because of the always online thing. Then it isn't as stupid an idea as people would think (Financially wise anyway). As the amount they and games companies lose in sales is probably astronomical.

But there are many people in less developed countries or less developed areas of countries where they will suffer greatly with the always online thing, so although I would be fine with it, I can see why many people are upset by it.

But on the other hand, in my experience (and its not vast, so could be bollocks) the countries with very bad internet and maybe a bit poorer than other countries, tend to pirate games, music, films etc a lot more than wealthier countries? let me know if I am wrong, but it is the impression I get.

Israel is far from the poorest country in the world, but the wages are low here and the cost of living high, so most people very rarely will buy an album or film etc

The internet is pretty good here anyway and I have found a nice little game shop that I buy games from in my little city, so I am fine with the always online thing.
 
i actually wish sony would make some deals so i could buy individual sport games from the ps3. like CL leagues or the sixth nations or the nba finals.

i am really amused by those who only buy new games. i see non point when the price drop so much in a few months.
 
Again, it's all about little steps towards the removal of freedom, so that the consumer acts indifferent or tolerates each change, rather than seeing what's happening and taking a stand.

Should you be looking at the fact that you personally can deal with the change? Or should you be looking at the fact that this would be the company in question lopping off a huge amount of user freedom, which they could easily have ended up doing in an area that directly affects you? If you're looking at the particular change itself, and not the general mindset that you're allowing to develop, then it'll be on you when that company makes their next bold move and ends up removing something you DO care about.
 
With regards to piracy and the second hand market; both of these factors could be reduced greatly if games were cheaper to start with. I buy more games on the PC because they are reasonably priced and services like Steam are continually offering excellent sales.

Charging £40+ (yes, less savvy people like parents will pay that in shops) for what is often an 8 hour experience is perhaps the problem here. Charge less, sell more new. I know scumbags will always pirate even if games cost 50p new, and the PC is piracy-central despite the cheaper games, but I think there is a case for games to be cheaper.
 
NBA 2K13 could not work if you had no connection for a couple of months, every time you boot the game it used to look for an update and without connection the system frooze.

And it was a pain for me, cause at the time I had a couple of problems with my router, and I also ended up deleting a lot of saves trying to fix it, cause I had no internet to google it.

Apparently they've fixed it now, but there is still some issues with the updates, sometimes you load the game and you get no up to date shoes, players etc.

And that's whats worry me, some companies just have bad online, really bad online, 2K been terrible for years in my experience with lots of online features not working at all.

But I doubt that rumor is true anyway.
 
Jamezinho said:
With regards to piracy and the second hand market; both of these factors could be reduced greatly if games were cheaper to start with. I buy more games on the PC because they are reasonably priced and services like Steam are continually offering excellent sales.

Charging £40+ (yes, less savvy people like parents will pay that in shops) for what is often an 8 hour experience is perhaps the problem here. Charge less, sell more new. I know scumbags will always pirate even if games cost 50p new, and the PC is piracy-central despite the cheaper games, but I think there is a case for games to be cheaper.
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Very good point.
 
Placebo said:
Yep.
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The PS3 does have games leaked sooner than the other formats, but not many people hack the PS3, this is just my experience but loads more people seem to hack an XBOX over the PS3.

Jamezinho said:
With regards to piracy and the second hand market; both of these factors could be reduced greatly if games were cheaper to start with. I buy more games on the PC because they are reasonably priced and services like Steam are continually offering excellent sales.

Charging £40+ (yes, less savvy people like parents will pay that in shops) for what is often an 8 hour experience is perhaps the problem here. Charge less, sell more new. I know scumbags will always pirate even if games cost 50p new, and the PC is piracy-central despite the cheaper games, but I think there is a case for games to be cheaper.
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Game prices will never change as £40 is considered the norm for games.
If Tomb Raider was for instance £20 they would have to sell double the amount of copies to make the same money, so would Tomb Raider of sold 7m copies if it was £20 I seriously doubt it.

You are right though about the pirates they will always pirate even if games were 50p as they don't know any different, but as with Sim City if you develop a system of always on DRM then people are left with no choice but to buy the product.

People will disagree but from a developer point of view they are probably loving the idea of always online.
 
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bsmaff said:
Game prices will never change as £40 is considered the norm for games.
If Tomb Raider was for instance £20 they would have to sell double the amount of copies to make the same money, so would Tomb Raider of sold 7m copies if it was £20 I seriously doubt it.
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I guess it depends how many times a single copy of Tomb raider is sold on second hand providing no further income to the developer and publisher. If a game is £20 new then there is little incentive to buy second hand.

You're right, £40 will be the norm and I can't see it changing but at the other end of the scale you have the free to play experiment, where it's all about attracting a big install base with a free game and 'monetising' it from then on.


bsmaff said:
You are right though about the pirates they will always pirate even if games were 50p as they don't know any different, but as with Sim City if you develop a system of always on DRM then people are left with no choice but to buy the product.

People will disagree but from a developer point of view they are probably loving the idea of always online.
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I see the value of 'always on' from the industry's perspective. Unfortunately the gaming community has brought this upon itself.
 
bsmaff said:
Third, Sim City is a massive talking point at the moment with PC Gamers because of EA's decision to include Always Online DRM with the game. I play PC games and know a lot of PC gamers, everyone was moaning about the always on DRM, but it has not caused any issues since the first week...
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Sorry but that is not true at all. Not being able to save locally has had huge issues because of rollbacks long past the first week. Also they've just added back some features to the game because their servers can't handle it.

What is so good with always online? Why not just "online when needed"? I don't get it.
 
As has been said, price would not come down with DRM (though MS (or whoever) would win a larger share of the fanbase by knocking a fiver off their RRP than they'd lose with always-online). The savings made by recouping sales lost to piracy/2nd hand sales would never reach us.

I can't envisage MS going so far as to ban 2nd-hand sales; if they do anything about 2nd-hand then I imagine it'd be some sort of licence transfer fee, an equivalent to the online pass.
 
What did he expect? He's tweeting under his name, with his job almost definitely listed next to his name, and with people following him because of his job.

I'm not exactly following every social network news story, but the Robin Hood airport case is the only time I didn't think the person tweeting should have known better.
 
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Great discussion about the always connected Xbox 720 on the weekend confirmed podcast.

Two models of Xbox 720 one full price possibly $399-$499 that doesn't need to be always connected.
And the second Subscription based model for only $200 with monthly payments of two years of Xbox live which is always connected to make sure ppl pay there 2 years of Xbox Live.

We already do this when buying our cell phones and service and most consumers prefer this cheaper upfront option.
I have already paid for 6 years of Xbox live and my Xbox 360 is already always connected.
It makes perfect business sense.
PS it's all speculation and rumor.
 
Xbox 720 not “always-on”, runs Windows 8 – claims source
Xbox 720 will not require an online connection to function, the recent round of VGLeaks specs were correct and Kinect 2.0 is a thing. That’s the claim of an alleged Microsoft insider working in software, who has spilled plenty of fresh information online.

The source posted everything he or she claims to know in a Pastebin post addressed to NeoGAF member Chesemeister.

Although the post does not give away his or her identity, it is heavy with statements and alleged facts from within the company relative to Xbox 720, Kinect 2.0 and other areas surrounding Microsoft’s next-gen rig.

Starting with the thorny always-online issue, the source stated, “You are not required to be connected to the internet in order to play Durango games and MS were NEVER considering doing such a thing. Now please, just read that last sentence over and over again until it sinks in. Done? Good.”

According to the source, Microsoft will announce the new Xbox in May – backing up rumours of a May 21st reveal – and that the company is working on a set of VR glasses to work in tandem with the console.

The source also stated every VGLeaks article pertaining to the console’s specs so far has been true, and added that each new Xbox 720 rig will ship with an Xbox 360 SOC for backwards compatibility. The 360 chip-set is also said to boost the console’s overall speed and performance.

On Kinect 2.0, the source stated that everything VGLeaks has said about Microsoft’s new motion bar is correct, and added that with a “quite substantial increase in the hardware over Kinect 1.0, any humanly noticeable lag should be gone.”

On the issue of the Xbox 720 controller, the source said that the design is unchanged, but that the controller now houses an improved D-Pad that looks identical to the Xbox 360′s, but will feel different. It runs on AA batteries and battery packs again, but thanks to new wireless tech will last 16% longer than previous pads.

The source also confirmed that rumours surrounding new, cheaper Xbox Mini or Xbox TV models geared toward entertainment rather than games are also true.

Apparently, the $100 ‘Xbox TV’ rig is being worked on by a different team at Microsoft, and it is expected to compete with Apple TV. There is no disc-drive, but it will play Xbox Live Arcade and ‘Games on Demand’ titles, thanks to the on board Xbox 360 SOC.

In terms of OS, the source stated that both models of Xbox 720 would run on a full version of Windows 8 – minus interface – and that it will run the new WinRT framework, which the source claims will make Microsoft’s rig the most “indie friendly” console of the next generation.

On indies, the source expects that developers will pay a $60 Xbox Live license fee, and will be able to submit their games to the store without need of a dev kit.
 
embraceuk1 said:
I hate backwards compatibility everyone wants it no one uses it once they see and play the new gen games
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Well it's certainly something attractive to people who only had one console, I know I keep repeating this and I'm sure it's tiresome but as I never had a PS3 if I could play PS3 exclusives on the PS4 at a fair price then I would definitely consider switching my "allegiance" to Sony for next gen.
 
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