Netherlands Thread

lazyForken

Championship
24 August 2007
The problem with the DUTCH squad is not Robben... you cant blame him for trying... thats non sense. The dutch problem is they are playing an overused 4-2-3-1 formation that is SOOO predictible,linear and too organised formation. This style doesnt suit them anymore.

Having deJong and Van bommel as your pivot = FOULS and good ball recuperation combo, Thats it! You cant get no creativity and passing from those 2. they either pass it to Van persie who need to come in the midfield to receive since they cant reach him or they make a pass on the wings. Snjeider is the only guy that can provide an incisive pass but snjeider is a control and pass type of player. IMO in that system he should play as pivot instead of an AMF.

that dutch squad is VERY SLOW and the only guy can try to be incisive is Robben...but everybody is blaming him for the mess that is going on with this squad. Wesly Sneijder is playing well but as an AMF they need an (Ozil,kagawa,gotze,reus) type of player who hes quick can move around the pitch better.

Also yall forget that Holland do REALLY start Affaley who NEVER played for barca this season ahead of kuyt which as a player im not a fan but have way more experience that affeley...seriously BLAME the COACH.
 

jihado86

Attacking Midfielder
10 July 2008
Tunisia
Real Madrid
It's also clear that you have something very personal against Arjen Robben.

Believe me I have nothing against him, all I said about him is the result of what he fu#k up ..
he was great with Chelsea and RM because he play as a "helper" or "a last minutes killer" .. but to be a star of the team? the centre of all the attacking operations ??? I don't hate him, I hate that type of players ..
 

bebo

Looking for a Manager
25 July 2005
Arsenal Thread
The Arsenal FC
The problem with the DUTCH squad is not Robben... you cant blame him for trying... thats non sense. The dutch problem is they are playing an overused 4-2-3-1 formation that is SOOO predictible,linear and too organised formation. This style doesnt suit them anymore.

Having deJong and Van bommel as your pivot = FOULS and good ball recuperation combo, Thats it! You cant get no creativity and passing from those 2. they either pass it to Van persie who need to come in the midfield to receive since they cant reach him or they make a pass on the wings. Snjeider is the only guy that can provide an incisive pass but snjeider is a control and pass type of player. IMO in that system he should play as pivot instead of an AMF.

that dutch squad is VERY SLOW and the only guy can try to be incisive is Robben...but everybody is blaming him for the mess that is going on with this squad. Wesly Sneijder is playing well but as an AMF they need an (Ozil,kagawa,gotze,reus) type of player who hes quick can move around the pitch better.

Also yall forget that Holland do REALLY start Affaley who NEVER played for barca this season ahead of kuyt which as a player im not a fan but have way more experience that affeley...seriously BLAME the COACH.

did you see Van Bommel ball thru in the air :SHOCK: to RVP`s volley! The Dutch needs a big figure/present in the middle. The Dutch was banging goals left/right before the tourney started, blaming the coach :SMUG: nah not reelly (really)
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
I never saw this team as favourites.
As a matter of fact, i'm still baffled that this team (minus the LB) managed to reach the WC final (and would have won it if Arjan Choker hadn't missed the big chance). Dutch football used to about creativity. This team has not enough creativity. They have Van Persie, but this is not the best Van Persie. They have Affelay, but he is coming back from a serious injury and also far from his best. On top of that Affelay is not the most productive player (with PSV he scored 14 goals in his best season, Dries Mertens scored 21 in his first for PSV), he is good, attractive, but not productive. The rest of the team lacks creativity. Robben? He is creative but selfish and a player who fails at crucial moments.

IMO VDV has every reason to complain, although i agree with PLF that he is seriously overrated.

Van Marwijk will get all the stick, but i don't think he is to blame, this generation lacks talent. Heitinga and Mathijsen are not major tournament material.

PS: in august or septembre the Dutch will play our talented Belgian team and they will completely outplay them...
 

Enzo

International
17 March 2011
Russia / Finland
Barcelona / Zenit
Amazing player Robben, his downfall started in 2010 from the World Cup final game, continues through 2 years with wonderful games in Bundesliga against Dortmund and Cup final against Dortmund, amazing performance in Champions League, now he is in top form for his country..

Lets move left and try to shoot, good tactic Robben, except even 10 year kids know it and you cant hit shit anymore.

I feel sad for players like Sneijder, waving hands and no1 seeing him, for players like Huntelaar and Persie that barely get the ball.

Holland 0 points is absolutely the biggest flop of EURO 2012 so far.

Good luck with Portugal, may Ronaldo blew it like he did in Denmark game.
 

cfdh_edmundo

Maverick
30 December 2002
I'm probably not much of a coach, but i would play both Van Persie and Huntelaar upfront with Afellay as sort of right midfielder and with Vander Vaart instead of Robben in a 4-4-2. But you can make that in Holland, there is a law (Cruijff's law) that says one has to play 4-3-3.

Yeah one of my colleagues from Delft said this. The Dutch are totally limited in the formations and style of football they can play. Because of Cruyff's ideas about football, they have to play a somewhat over-expansive 4-3-3 or even 4-3-2-1 hybrid. But not just that, there is a big notion against the Dutch ever playing more direct football or even shutting the game down. It's great if they have a squad of 23 world class footballers, but if there are deficiencies in any areas the Dutch are not emotionally allowed to reshuffle their formation to conteract this. At the last World Cup Van Maarwijck sensed there might be a problem winning and keeping hold of the ball so he restricted attacking players and instead deployed more agressive ball winners and players who would play simple passes. Cruyff went mental at this saying it was the worst Dutch team he had ever seen (I assume he didnt watch Holland in Euro 96, nor in 2001-2) and said it was proposterous that the Dutch were playing without style, and he wanted Spain to win because of this and he would never support a Dutch team playing in such a way. It's a rather dogmatic approach and ignores the fact that Holland beat well organised teams (Denmark, Japan, Uruguay) using this approach to get to the final, whereas playing expansive football they might well have lost. Cryuff also ignored the fact that Spain were defensive themselves at times, especially against Paraguay and Portugal. The colleagues last comments were, "Johann Cruyff has been ruining Dutch football since he stopped playing", a bit over the top but I can see his point. Cryuff's tangled up Dutch football's thinking, it's now caught in a beauty-obsessed trap and it cannot alter itself to be more pragmatic when such situations arise.
 

Rantboy

International
27 December 2002
Fluminense FC / Arsenal
Holland, as always, have problems with big egos. While one player had been pathetically crying in public to force his way into the first XI, the other acts like a utter cunt for being subbed. The "Arjen Robben show" we witnessed yesterday was pathetic. After his antics, jumping over the ad boards and all that, he sat outside the dugout. So did Van Bommel and both were talking stuff only between themselves.
That's a horrible team atmosphere, no winning side can be built from that.

Robben even started brightly and unselfishly, but gradually he moved back to his 'comfort' zone of dribbling inside and shooting - over and over again.

To make matters worse, Holland's defence is a total joke now, isn't it? Heitinga and Mathijsen are comedy show. It should have been 3-0 when Badstuber shook Heitinga off like a bug in a corner kick.
That left back of theirs (Willems?) is not ready yet. He didn't do so bad, but he clearly felt the pressure.

RvP did well, one of the few yesterday... he missed a very good chance in the beginning but then, to his credit, he created their goal almost by himself with great movement, skill and a strong shot with his weaker foot.

Now it's a bit too late for Holland. I don't believe in a turnaround now.
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
Yeah one of my colleagues from Delft said this. The Dutch are totally limited in the formations and style of football they can play. Because of Cruyff's ideas about football, they have to play a somewhat over-expansive 4-3-3 or even 4-3-2-1 hybrid. But not just that, there is a big notion against the Dutch ever playing more direct football or even shutting the game down. It's great if they have a squad of 23 world class footballers, but if there are deficiencies in any areas the Dutch are not emotionally allowed to reshuffle their formation to conteract this. At the last World Cup Van Maarwijck sensed there might be a problem winning and keeping hold of the ball so he restricted attacking players and instead deployed more agressive ball winners and players who would play simple passes. Cruyff went mental at this saying it was the worst Dutch team he had ever seen (I assume he didnt watch Holland in Euro 96, nor in 2001-2) and said it was proposterous that the Dutch were playing without style, and he wanted Spain to win because of this and he would never support a Dutch team playing in such a way. It's a rather dogmatic approach and ignores the fact that Holland beat well organised teams (Denmark, Japan, Uruguay) using this approach to get to the final, whereas playing expansive football they might well have lost. Cryuff also ignored the fact that Spain were defensive themselves at times, especially against Paraguay and Portugal. The colleagues last comments were, "Johann Cruyff has been ruining Dutch football since he stopped playing", a bit over the top but I can see his point. Cryuff's tangled up Dutch football's thinking, it's now caught in a beauty-obsessed trap and it cannot alter itself to be more pragmatic when such situations arise.

Your colleague is spot on.
Cruijff will never criticize a coach which he considers one of his pupils (usually former Ajax players if they listen to him and take over his ideas).

To be fair to him, i can see why i wanted Spain to win, Spain and Barcelona are playing exactly the football Cruijf wants to see...

He is an icon in Holland and somehow i admire him, but people listen too much to what he says. Some peole are almost Cruijff worshippers, that is preposterous. For these people Cruijff can do nothing wrong.
 

m7m_teddy

Avid reader, rare poster
16 May 2005
Timisoara (Romania)
FC Barcelona, Rapid Buch.
Yep! It's amazing that The Dutch have lost 2 games now and can still qualify with just 1 win out of 3!

I think it's do-able.

Doable, yet noone has ever done it at the Euros. Just like the Dutch have never come back from 2-0 in a Euro game. That one still stands.

I fear a 1-1 between Germany and Denmark which, provided the Dutch die against Portugal [their only shot] puts both DEU and DEN through.
Well, fear is a figure of speech; I don't have much sympathy for Portugal and the Netherlands is my long-time love. I'd rather see Denmark over Portugal through.
 

gabe.paul.logan

Retired Footballer
7 January 2007
Budapest
Hungary
Got to win tomorrow i have my bet on you boys!

---------------Stekelenburg

Boulahrouz - Bouma - Heitinga - Van der Wiel

--------------Van Bommel --- De Jong


Van Der Vaart-----Sneijder------------Robben


-------------Van Persie




---------------Stekelenburg

Willems - Bouma - Heitinga - Van der Wiel

-------------Van Bommel---De Jong

Sneijder-------------------------Robben

------------------Van Persie
-------------Huntelaar
 
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Damjan

World Cup Winner
16 July 2011
Arsenal|Juventus|ASSE
Dutch media saying we'll play like this:
Stekelenburg
Vd Wiel Heitinga Mathijsen Willems
De Jong Vd Vaart
Robben Van Persie Sneijder
Huntelaar
 

joeryan

Championship
24 September 2007
New York
The Dutch need to dump that system, dump at least one of their two defensive midfielders (Van Bommel is done), and after the tournament dump Van Marwijk.

The Dutch used to be great to watch, and now they're one of the most brutal sides to watch.
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
The Dutch need to dump that system, dump at least one of their two defensive midfielders (Van Bommel is done), and after the tournament dump Van Marwijk.

The Dutch used to be great to watch, and now they're one of the most brutal sides to watch.

I agree, they don't need both Van Bommel and De Jong in there to kick lumps out of people. It's too negative for a team like Holland.

Maybe they should try a 4-4-2 formation, maybe with a midfield diamond? I'd love to see Holland play with two out-and-out strikers i.e. Huntelaar and Van Persie, with Sneijder sitting just behind them. The 4-3-3 is just too predictable and perhaps doesn't make best use of the players available.
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
Yes but Cruijff = 4-3-3.
The first manager who has the guts to play otherwise will be crucified after his first defeat (or even draw).
 

S-NipE

World Cup Winner
17 May 2008
Germany
German NT
It is maybe the biggest disappointment to me, to see the Netherlands leaving the tournament so early. Although I was quite sure to see this result after the match against us I as the chances to reach the next round were at a very low level, I am still wondered how weak they were during this competition.
 

Sabatasso

Banned
26 August 2009
South of Heaven
Tottenham Hotspur
It's quite clear what went wrong for the Dutch in this Euro. A massive lack of effort, a tad unlucky and complete lack of tactical depth.

Better luck next time, everyone know you're better than this.
 

Artem

International
9 June 2010
St. Petersburg
Zenit SPb
Well guys, I can only sympathize, as 0 points in 3 games is not the result for a team like the Netherlands, even if it was a group of death. I hope your football federation will extract some lessons from this and take appropriate measures to ensure that this would not happen again. Good luck! :ROLL:
 

joeryan

Championship
24 September 2007
New York
Do the Dutch still listen to Cruyff?

Time for change I think.

I don't think they do listen to him, Dutch football has a long history of bickering - looks like all their old players are given the cold shoulder, Cruyff included.

Cruyff is about as radical and brilliant a football man as there is - Van Basten is in the same mould - and I just don't think the KNVB wants anything to do with them.

Van Marwijk won a UEFA Cup after it was already a lesser trophy. That's about the height of it. Seems like a placeman.
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
I never thought this team was among the favourites. The fact that they reached the final of the last WC was a one off (i remember being glad the Dutch eliminated Brazil, but boy they were lucky that day and they had the same luck against Uruguay when the ref overlooked a foul seconds before that fantastic Van Bronckhost goal).

If you look at the players they have, you can see that they are favourites because they are Holland.

Robben: massively talented player but not the brightest one and on top of that struggling with a confidence crisis.
Van Persie: perhaps the best attacker of the world, but rarely good with the national team.
Sneijder: World class but on his way back (nevertheless he did have a good tournament)
Van Der Vaart: scarcely played and when he played against Portugal all he had to do was run after the ball. Could have been used better.
Huntelaar: is he that good?
Affelay: good player, but has had a serious injury and should not have played.
Van Bommel: the proverbial scapegoat. He never was as good as the Dutch claimed after the WC and he is not as bad as they claim he is now. They could have used him against the Dutch instead of:
De Jong: overrated idiot. Can't pass a ball to save his life.
Willems: you can't blame him. He is too young.
Van Der Wiel: a shadow of the player he once was, very bad tournament.
Heitinga/Vlaar/ Mathijsen: not good enough. Second rate defenders.
It's only natural/normal that this teams finishes last in a very tough group.

What is worse IMO is the fact that Holland is loosing it's identity as a country that is playing attractive and attacking football.

A rare Belgian who always loved Dutch football. But this crop is seriously overrated.
 
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