Michael Richards (aka Seinfeld's Cosmo Kramer) Racist outburst

I kind of see Slobber's point; what he's saying is, if you're racist, homophobic or whatever, but you don't go around killing black people and gay people, then you're not an evil human being. You're just a stupid one. My parents are both of those things, and they're not doing any harm. But saying that, they're not running around saying to people's faces that "if I had things my way you'd all be shot".

From the other end of the spectrum though, there's insults that will hurt us more than all of the other insults. You could call me anything you wanted to and I'd take it as a joke but if you call me an X (I won't say it because there's a few cunts on this forum who think they're hilarious), then I'll be upset. What Michael was saying was not said in a jokey way, he was saying it to insult the guy as much as possible, which is fucked up.

But, to be objective, I suppose it's strange that if you call someone e.g. a geeky fuckwit, and an N-word, they could both find it equally offensive but only one of those situations is illegal. Which is very strange. I watched something ages ago, I can't think of what it was about, but it mentioned the law behind a "hate crime". I'm not a big political person so sorry if I'm making a fool of myself, but it seems wrong that if you call a black person an N-word, you can get yourself into a lot of legal trouble, but if you call someone a twat, even if you call them something very nasty and threatening (without making a specific threat), then legally they're doing "nothing wrong". It seems to me, again correct me if I'm being too politically stupid here, that black people have a lot of protection against verbal insults and white people who are "different" from eachother have very little protection at all, if any.

Which surely causes more of a divide?
 
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Ad16 said:
Every comedian gets heckled, the good one's will play along and joke back at the heckler.

And yeah its ok if he is racist, if he keeps his moronic opinions to himself (which he did not). The "50 years ago" comment was deeply insulting, he is making light of the lynching of blacks in recent American history.
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Just because every comedian gets heckled, doesn't make it ok. The Heckler tried to publically embarrass Richards. Now the way Richards responded, wasn't exactly ideal, but maybe it was understandable.

Also, you can't just go around demanding people keep their opinions to theirselves. Even if they are racist. They're entitled to them.
 
It's not the same. He heckled Richards because he's not funny to begin with, which means he shouldn't have been trying to do stand up in the first place. Stand up isn't like some normal job where you do your thing without having somebody tell you that you suck. If you're not funny, get the hell off the stage. The "dip shit" heckler called Racist Richards out on being unfunny when nobody else has the balls to do so. Welcome to stand up (apparently you have no idea how it works), if you suck, somebody will most definitely let you know about it. And like Paul Rodriguez already asked, why the hell would you say something this stupid right after crazy ass Mel Gibson goes off about the Jews? Tell us, Racist Richards, what was happening to Jews "50 years ago"?

And why are we trying to argue that all insults are the same? Calling somebody a-hole or anything else compared to what he said is absolutely and unmistakably different.
Even if he is a racist, so? As long as he doesn't hurt any one, then who gives a shit what his opinions on black people are?
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You're assuming (erroneously) that words can't and don't hurt anybody. Want to know who gives a shit about his opinions on black people? The people who paid money "to see Kramer and got Mark Fuhrman".
 
I completely agree and nothing, not a thing (no matter how many apologies the guy issues) will "fix" what he said.

I disagree with "not all insults are the same", though. An insult is an insult. Yes they can degree in ferocity, "you idiot" is different from "you fucking moron", but they both have the exact same potential to hurt people. But, more to the point... I'd compare saying the N-word to saying the other N-word... Nazi. Black people were used as slaves and the N-word is what the white people (who I fucking distance myself from, hence why I'm not saying "we" because I am NOT one of them) called them. Nazi is what supporters of Hitler called eachother, and meant they were evil killing machines who wanted to "purify" the world. While there's a difference, they're both historically "evil words".

If you call a German a Nazi, which I've seen done a thousand times, you don't get a media outcry or any legal implication (or at least I've never seen it happen around here). If you call a black guy an N-word, you can go to jail. So, their ass is covered, nobody else's. Who the fuck is anyone to say if a black guy gets called an N-word and I get called a stupid motherfucking c*nt, I won't get as offended as him? Sorry, but both are wrong.

No terms of insult are right, but only one is illegal, and that's what upsets me. I don't want to see black guys having to put up with dickheads on stage who's act is so crap they have a mid-life crisis and do that, it's not right. In no way could I ever fucking condone what the bastard has done. But in the same way, a guy could go on a tirade exactly the same towards me, and there wouldn't be anything in the news, there would be no apology, there would be no legal action.

Personally I think we're just living in a time where racism is the "big thing", just as in the past 50 years or so sexism has been the "big thing", and in the next couple of hundred years it will be something else. Put it like this; the manager of Luton (Mike Newell) went on a similarly career-threatening tirade against a woman linesman last weekend. "Women shouldn't be in this game, they shouldn't be in a football stadium, they should be in a park, it's not right - she's ruined the game and it's token sexism, it's give-the-woman-a-job, it's not right". Can you imagine how that woman felt (Amy Rayner)? Can you imagine, she's worked for five fucking years on working towards being a referee. She's given up a lot of her time to do it because that's what she wants to do. And then along comes a footballing legend, but at the same time an absolute twat, and says she's an idiot and she shouldn't be doing what she's doing, and why? Because it's "not right". How fucking insulted can you be? Personally I would have put the linesman's flag right through his fucking head.

But, what happened? There was a media outcry, yes. Did he lose his job? No. Now, picture the exact same scene, but with a black guy. "Black people can't do this job, they belong in the park not in a football stadium". Would he have kept his job? No fucking way. How is that fair to Amy Rayner, who has been just as insulted than the people in that comedy club? Having your dreams spat on by a complete dickhead? Where is the fairness in that?

One dickhead's career is over, another's is still going.
 
Nigger came from the word Negro. Thats what white people called black people, Why? Becausae they were dark skinned people (read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro)

Anyways I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about.

He called the guy a "Nigger" for pissing him off.

Im sure some of you might been really pissed of before sometime in your life and you said the worst thing you could ever say.

It's like when you want to punch someone in the face for doing something that got you pissed. Your not going to give them a soft punch, your gonna give them the hardest fucking thump in the face you can ever give someone!!

Rememeber, this is a people thing.

rockybar said he can't look at Kramer the same again, Why?

Because he said called the guy a Nigger? LOL!

Thats fucking deep.
 
Stringer Bell said:
rockybar said he can't look at Kramer the same again, Why?

Because he said called the guy a Nigger? LOL!

Thats fucking deep.
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My problem wasn't by the fact that he called someone else a nigger - but the tone and the context he was using it in. Initially you had the shock factor - but then he went on and on. It had become quite disturbing - and sometimes it's that vivid image that gets stuck in your head.

In the world of extreme celebrity-ism these days, it's (sadly) quite difficult to differentiate the character onscreen and the actor offscreen - hence perhaps why, I accept that I am wrong to judge a character based on the actor played offscreen by him (and vice versa).

I took a look at his apology last night and I must say that applaud his bravery. He had lost control - and in the heat of the situation you may say things that go too far. Sometimes, a comedian have to take his act to the border line to grab the audience attention. But there is still no justification - he needs help to control his anger; and he knows it.

Most people know where the word "nigger" comes from - but a significance of a word can be altered over the times of history. The word negro itself, as you mentioned, originally isn't a derogratory term. But when it had become bastardized by pathetic slavery owners, it took another meaning altogether.

Pakistan in its fundamental form means "land of the pure" (according to my pakistani brothers). Take away "stan" (meaning Land), and you have "paki" (meaning Pure). It's funny in how its actual meaning is so complimentary yet it has become a hugely disparaging term due to its unfortunate historical use. It's even more annoying when a fool calls me a paki even though my origins are Bangladeshi....at least get it right(!)

One problem lies as to whether, arguably, these terms have any use in the multicultural countries we live in today? I guess with certain rappers/entertainers using them left, right and centre these days, their historical context is somewhat diminishing once again to a slang term. I personally think this hugely disrespectful to the people who have dedicated their lives to stop the use of these terms. It's ironic when you hear certain rappers praising Rosa Parks, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King in one verse yet blazing derogratory terms in the next. But that's another discussion altogether ;)

There is sometimes a very thin line between "freedom of speech" (which I personally think is a joke if people actually believe that its philosophy can fully exist) and the "incitement of hate." Sure, Mr Richards is perhaps able to control his inner racist feelings most of the time, but others may not. Many people may look up to him and in their little messed up minds, they may look at it as some form of justification to portray their extreme views.
 
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Jack Bauer said:
I completely agree and nothing, not a thing (no matter how many apologies the guy issues) will "fix" what he said.

I disagree with "not all insults are the same", though. An insult is an insult. Yes they can degree in ferocity, "you idiot" is different from "you fucking moron", but they both have the exact same potential to hurt people. But, more to the point... I'd compare saying the N-word to saying the other N-word... Nazi. Black people were used as slaves and the N-word is what the white people (who I fucking distance myself from, hence why I'm not saying "we" because I am NOT one of them) called them. Nazi is what supporters of Hitler called eachother, and meant they were evil killing machines who wanted to "purify" the world. While there's a difference, they're both historically "evil words".

If you call a German a Nazi, which I've seen done a thousand times, you don't get a media outcry or any legal implication (or at least I've never seen it happen around here). If you call a black guy an N-word, you can go to jail. So, their ass is covered, nobody else's. Who the fuck is anyone to say if a black guy gets called an N-word and I get called a stupid motherfucking c*nt, I won't get as offended as him? Sorry, but both are wrong.

No terms of insult are right, but only one is illegal, and that's what upsets me. I don't want to see black guys having to put up with dickheads on stage who's act is so crap they have a mid-life crisis and do that, it's not right. In no way could I ever fucking condone what the bastard has done. But in the same way, a guy could go on a tirade exactly the same towards me, and there wouldn't be anything in the news, there would be no apology, there would be no legal action.

Personally I think we're just living in a time where racism is the "big thing", just as in the past 50 years or so sexism has been the "big thing", and in the next couple of hundred years it will be something else. Put it like this; the manager of Luton (Mike Newell) went on a similarly career-threatening tirade against a woman linesman last weekend. "Women shouldn't be in this game, they shouldn't be in a football stadium, they should be in a park, it's not right - she's ruined the game and it's token sexism, it's give-the-woman-a-job, it's not right". Can you imagine how that woman felt (Amy Rayner)? Can you imagine, she's worked for five fucking years on working towards being a referee. She's given up a lot of her time to do it because that's what she wants to do. And then along comes a footballing legend, but at the same time an absolute twat, and says she's an idiot and she shouldn't be doing what she's doing, and why? Because it's "not right". How fucking insulted can you be? Personally I would have put the linesman's flag right through his fucking head.

But, what happened? There was a media outcry, yes. Did he lose his job? No. Now, picture the exact same scene, but with a black guy. "Black people can't do this job, they belong in the park not in a football stadium". Would he have kept his job? No fucking way. How is that fair to Amy Rayner, who has been just as insulted than the people in that comedy club? Having your dreams spat on by a complete dickhead? Where is the fairness in that?

One dickhead's career is over, another's is still going.
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Good post. I don't agree with all of it, but it's still a good post.
 
DGutierrez32 said:
It's not the same. He heckled Richards because he's not funny to begin with, which means he shouldn't have been trying to do stand up in the first place. Stand up isn't like some normal job where you do your thing without having somebody tell you that you suck. If you're not funny, get the hell off the stage. The "dip shit" heckler called Racist Richards out on being unfunny when nobody else has the balls to do so. Welcome to stand up (apparently you have no idea how it works), if you suck, somebody will most definitely let you know about it. And like Paul Rodriguez already asked, why the hell would you say something this stupid right after crazy ass Mel Gibson goes off about the Jews? Tell us, Racist Richards, what was happening to Jews "50 years ago"?

And why are we trying to argue that all insults are the same? Calling somebody a-hole or anything else compared to what he said is absolutely and unmistakably different.

You're assuming (erroneously) that words can't and don't hurt anybody. Want to know who gives a shit about his opinions on black people? The people who paid money "to see Kramer and got Mark Fuhrman".
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Your justification of heckling is a shambles. It's not right to try and publically embarrass any one in public, regardless of their profession.

And as for when you quoted me. Well I meant it in terms of a violent attack, and if the guy kept his opinions to himzelf. Which he obviously didn't in this case.

Like I said, what he said wasn't ideal, but maybe it was understandable.
 
Funny that this thread is made and then, days later, THIS is in the news. How utterly ridiculous, as if a story like that is of any use. They might as well report that "fat kids pass 10% less exams than skinny ones" or "90% of people who drive have farted in their car at some point whereas only 80% of those who own their own private jet have farted in it".

Again, this seems to want to cause more division than cure it. If you're going to come up with a story like this, at least have something to back it up - i.e. it's most likely because of X (racial bullying, different DNA or whatever the hell you want). Or better yet, just keep it to yourselves; I don't think anybody read that and went "hmmm, interesting".
 
Jack Bauer said:
Again, this seems to want to cause more division than cure it. If you're going to come up with a story like this, at least have something to back it up - i.e. it's most likely because of X (racial bullying, different DNA or whatever the hell you want). Or better yet, just keep it to yourselves; I don't think anybody read that and went "hmmm, interesting".
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Interestingly JB, I was having a discussion with a uni mate regarding society's concept of race and a couple of v interesting points came up.

For example, a few scientific thinkers (I'll have to ask my mate for references in case anyone is interested) discussed that racial distinctions is in fact a cultural - and not genetic - phenomenon (contrary to popular belief). It has been shown that intra-race (i.e. genetic differences within a particular race) DNA can vary more than Inter-race (i.e. genetic differences between races) DNA.

This field is apparently still undergoing research so I'm not going to pretend to be fully conclusive, but for the media to use the genetic argument may prove to be ignorant of the actual scientific facts.
 
Yes I agree JB that the BBC article is pointless. Why base it on skin colour or racial origins when analyzing performance levels when the BBC knows social surroundings are the obvious answer to these results.

Scientists have already proved by mapping the human genome that all humans are 99.9 percent the same. So skin colour would have to account for 0.1 percent total difference if that much.

Heh, the subject has now diversed from Michael Richards into something much deeper. Maybe this is important though as some people on this forum still dont get it, if you know what I mean.
 
Ad16 said:
Scientists have already proved by mapping the human genome that all humans are 99.9 percent the same. So skin colour would have to account for 0.1 percent total difference if that much.
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It's funny you should say that because on the same day that the news item we're talking about was posted, so was this! :D
 
Jack Bauer said:
It's funny you should say that because on the same day that the news item we're talking about was posted, so was this! :D
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Hehe, At least this proves science is constantly evolving. :D something we should obviously want. However I wonder what those across the pond would think of this, there is intense rivalry in scientific theories as we know.

Still I think you got my point anyway.
 
twophases said:
This saddens me. He'll never get booked on a comedy club ever again.
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He was doing the same show (albeit without the racist part) at the laughter factory the very next night.

Now, why isnt anyone hunting down the bastard who taped the stand up routine? This is OBVIOUSLY copyright infringement, where are the feds on this one?!

As for my personal opinion, Im guessing the heckler had it coming. He must have said something to provoke that outburst, notice how defenseless he seemed?
 
tupax said:
Now, why isnt anyone hunting down the bastard who taped the stand up routine? This is OBVIOUSLY copyright infringement, where are the feds on this one?!

As for my personal opinion, Im guessing the heckler had it coming. He must have said something to provoke that outburst, notice how defenseless he seemed?
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You're joking, right?
 
rockykabir said:
I don't know where you are getting at mate? Racism is wrong - no matter who it is directed to.
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Living in the United States, i've learned a few things, that there is an abundance of racism here, not just from the black community, or from the white, its everywhere I go here. Its a different world really from back home in Italy :'(

There is a double standard, a black man is allowed to use the word "nigger", but when a white man says this word, he's being racist. It even stems to football, I could walk up to anyone on the street here, and 1/5 of them would even know half of the rules to the sport, they view it as some "faggy" European thing here, it's quite sad, by no means am I excluding the rest of the world from racism, some of the things done to darker skinned athletes (I.E. making monkey sounds, throwing banana's) is just plain awful, of course, there are also other things done to other ethnicities (See: Croatians making a swastika in the crowds at an international game :/ )
 
Himawari said:
Living in the United States, i've learned a few things, that there is an abundance of racism here, not just from the black community, or from the white, its everywhere I go here. Its a different world really from back home in Italy :'(

There is a double standard, a black man is allowed to use the word "nigger", but when a white man says this word, he's being racist. It even stems to football, I could walk up to anyone on the street here, and 1/5 of them would even know half of the rules to the sport, they view it as some "faggy" European thing here, it's quite sad, by no means am I excluding the rest of the world from racism, some of the things done to darker skinned athletes (I.E. making monkey sounds, throwing banana's) is just plain awful, of course, there are also other things done to other ethnicities (See: Croatians making a swastika in the crowds at an international game :/ )
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give me more examples of all the racisim you see in the US? calling someone a fag is not racist... its ignorant, but last time i checked there wasn't a race of homesexuals. I beleive there are over 30 million kids playing soccer on an organized team in the United states(not including college soccer). Those kids and there parents I would think would know the rules of soccer. So I think your being a little ridiculous and generalizing when you say that 1/5 of americans know soccer and the rest think its "faggy"... There are double standards everywhere, and I would think that same double standard applies in Italy(the n-word example you used). Something like this would never ever happen in the United States, yet it happens in Italy

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/2001/04/20/italy_racism_ap/index.html

Racisim is everywhere period.
 
I understand the point that black people get more protection from verbal abuse but IMO, the thing about calling someone the N word or a fag or something is harsh because its something the person had no control over. We dont get to choose if we're born black or white so its like a "cheap shot" when someone uses racism.
Its like making fun of a cripple. Its harsh cuz you cant fight back. I guess its also why a black man can use the N word on another black person cuz you CAN fight back in that situation.
So in other words, its wrong cuz its cheap.
 
Heard a hilarious joke on Jay Leno about this...

"Hey Kevin, I scored some tickets off ebay, they're for Michael Richards at the Apollo."

And what csaunders said is true. I don't even have to click on his link to tell you what it's about: it's some fans displaying swastikas or doing racist chants at a black player or throwing bananas.

I clicked on it, and what do you know? Racist chants and banners. I find it hilarious that anybody would look at the Richards incident and say that racism in the US is so much worse than anywhere else. And I've never been to Italy, but it can't be that pleasant with PLAYERS like that asshole Di Canio giving Hitler salutes to the crowd. Talk about a guy who I wouldn't mind having wiped off the planet. I'd love to see what would happen to the clown who tried that at an NFL game.

Now Richards is meeting with the black leadership (he can now be regularly seen walking his racist ass around with the likes of Jesse Jackson, the Rev. Al Sharpton, and comedian Paul Mooney. For my money, it's MAYBE forgive, never forget. Nobody can convince me that this is just an isolated incident of spur-of-the-moment rage and not just his true feelings coming to the surface.
 
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This video shows an interview with two of the main guys Richard's abuse was aimed at. They give a good account of what really happened.

It seems they were'nt actually heckling but having a food and drink order taken. The targeted group were on a birthday night out.

The video makes Richard's look even worse and confirms he is a complete asshole, a racist one at that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx_m_gyE04M
 
The guy is a F'n RACIST and his long ridiculous improper rant and continuous insults proved it.

He can say all he wants now about how he went into this mysterious rage, etc. but if he didn't really feel those things he said towards black people, they would've never come out of his mouth even if he was angered!

Bottom line: is he DOES feel like that and is a racist who up until now just had managed to control himself in public.
 
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