Manual Passing BLEW MY MIND: PES 2020 Realism Upgrade

Hey @The_Knight I seen your new 2021 video, great stuff as always.

Did I hear right that when you describe manual passing you say there is no need for through ball anymore? You just use long ball or pass pressed longer? I was never sure if I should still be using through balls instead of pass etc. Does the button selection change anything else like player run etc?

Or do you never use through ball any more?
 
come on now. There's plenty difference between the triangle button and the x button, the passes feel different, look different, and with the triangle button if you try to pass it behind the player or towards the player, I feel like there's more chances of that backheel miscontrol animation.
I like to use the x and the trinagle button to create the plays, each has their own function. The best through ball though, if you see the spaces, it's that L1 plus the lob pass, that shit go past the defenders, whereas if you only press L1 plus triangle, for a further away throughball? that's going on the defender's chest, 50/50
 
Oh and this (full manual) is how every single football game should be played, not only your inputs matter, the stats matter too. I can't understand why some would call exploit abusers Pro Players. They have the reaction time alright, but football is not only about reflexes, there's some thinking in the game, so when you play a "good" assisted player, on online divisions, like 800 rated, you can feel they are not doing well, they struggling, this is new for them, people are accostumed to play that mechanical game.

I'ma say this bit, the football games's tech is already past the overall mindset, it's fully possible to play football in this game, (as opposed to fifa), but the vast majority of people are still on that fifa/arcady/quick button presses/videogamey type of gameplay.

Now, either Konami has some plans to force realism on people, or PES22 will be the same, with another type of exploits, which people will figure out, and that will make the game robotic as shit.

The plays I've been able to make in this 2021 version, I see it before I execute it, and it works amazingly well. With major struggle with the shooting though, that is HARD
 
Idk if it's because of Gameplay mods that I've been using, but moving to Manual Passing certainly made me looks the game in a different point of view, likes it just feels like watching real life football, I can't describe it enough, I just feel the realism is there and ofcourse I'm having alot of fun playing Leagues Mode! No scripting bullshit so far, and I hope it continues (if anyone has any experiences playing that Mode, feel free to tell your experiences, I'm curious, if there's ever gonna be any scripting or anything like that from ML) At first it might be hard, but slowly when you get the hang of it, it's just nice, we need to focus up, we can't just quickly do these passing, we need to think up first before did any passing.

Glad I moved, at PES 2020 I didn't enjoyed Manual Passing or the gameplay at all, while here at PES 2021, it feels nice, with the combinations of Holland gameplay as well, at first It feels sluggish tho, but it's because of my Game Speed, I put it at -2, and it makes the gameplay kinda sluggish imo, and moving to -1 made a huge differences, it has the correct tempo, everything.

After I fully mastered Manual Passing, maybe I gonna try Manual Shooting, or learn some skill moves first.
 
I started the game on full manual and shooting (never bought a football before). I was having a bit of trouble at first completing passes but played about 15 exhibition games with Cardiff.

I concentrated on passing the whole time and getting used to the controls. I lost every game and didn't score a goal yet lol.

What i did then was go to the one touch passing tutorial, but before I did that I turned on advanced through ball in options. This was a game changer for a newbie like me.

I was able to see where I was touching the ball to and it helped me immensely to see the power needed for different situations.

That along with holding LT before you pass so it shows you the trajectory of the pass. I'm using LT less and less now since I'm getting used to it but it's helped me a lot.

I just had a game where I lost again but my passing was really on point and it felt awesome.
 
ultra1312 said:
Hey @The_Knight I seen your new 2021 video, great stuff as always.

Did I hear right that when you describe manual passing you say there is no need for through ball anymore? You just use long ball or pass pressed longer? I was never sure if I should still be using through balls instead of pass etc. Does the button selection change anything else like player run etc?

Or do you never use through ball any more?
Click to expand...

Honestly, using only the normal pass button, I'm able to get swerved lovely passes behind the defense like the one you can see here at 7:51:


...and 2:43


I think it depends more on the player's dominant foot and the power of the pass that I've input. So in the second example, Robbo is a leftie, so he gets to outside curl it, giving it a nice swerve.

Once pass assist is turned Off, there really is null difference between pass and through IMO. I feel that most differences come from the fact you're used to aiming further from the player when pressing through pass from the "assisted passing days". I'd love to experiment more with through pass and adding L1... Maybe these swerving passes I'm getting will happen more frequently.
 
I’ve noticed that advanced through balls are much better on 2021, might’ve been the same on 2020. They are defiantly more ‘assisted’ but in a good way.

Not sure if it’s just me but I feel a huge difference playing an advanced thru ball with a good passer, much less chance of over hitting your target, despite the power gauge sometimes feeling like it should fly out of bounds. Have had some really beautiful looking ‘Xabi Alonso-esque’ cross field balls using it landing it right on the streaking winger’s foot.

Also helps immensely when your player has stars for the lofted pass inspire system - really liking that system overall.

As for manual shooting I’ve played a dozen or so games with it and have been able to score some cool looking goals, I mentioned it in another thread but I’ve noticed improved heading - I remember manual headers being a problem in the past.

Still flipping between manual shooting and advanced, I really like the variety offered when you are able to master advanced shooting.

*final thought* greatly appreciate the vids @The_Knight , lot of effort put into your videos and was the reason gave FUMA a chance
 
The_Knight said:
Honestly, using only the normal pass button, I'm able to get swerved lovely passes behind the defense like the one you can see here at 7:51:


...and 2:43


I think it depends more on the player's dominant foot and the power of the pass that I've input. So in the second example, Robbo is a leftie, so he gets to outside curl it, giving it a nice swerve.

Once pass assist is turned Off, there really is null difference between pass and through IMO. I feel that most differences come from the fact you're used to aiming further from the player when pressing through pass from the "assisted passing days". I'd love to experiment more with through pass and adding L1... Maybe these swerving passes I'm getting will happen more frequently.
Click to expand...
well... i do prefer playing the manual passes too. though pass is like an old habbit... :) i use it sometimes but i feel it "only" triggers the back heel mistake animation more often (it was said by others before). anyway... i also think that on the wings it make you player pass "behind the back with the heel" when a winger runs by. but i had that backheel lay off as well when i was just using X (i think i was using the RS for some fency dribble stuff at that time), so i'm not 100% sure.

i'm all good with the freedom regular fuma ground passes deliver. never ever i could go back to the staged riged sheme called PA!
just last night, when i was playing with Leipzig against Istanbul or Dortmund vs. Lazio... i had some "sharp as an axe" ground passes that split the defense so nicely.... delivering the ball to the striker!

talking about realism: i'm more and more convinced that "too much" of user input destroys some of the realism. its hard to describe for me and sure sounds weird first. ;)
when i dont push and rush for the ball hard and constant, but instead use the pressure feature(s!!) in combination with my active controlled player covering lanes and opponent recipients, the game unfolds so much better. i have times where i manage to hold the other team in their own third or in midfield for quite some time. so this covers a bit of the midfield/retreat flaw but it adds so much more.
when i take my time, in defense or offense, the whole game isnt constant end-to-end like it can be. its more like the real thing, limited due to those rigid retreating i admit. but hey, these days i'm even trying to hold my players high up the pitch when they do wanna retreat. sure, its a workaround (and definitely not perfect)... but what am i supposed to do?! :) i'm a player relying on switching players with RS a lot because it gives me more control (even when its more hectic at the sticks and buttons) over the player selection. this way i am able to push other teams into corners or force them to switch sides. its important to think as a team and make your mates work with you (in tandem with the active controlled player)! and i am so glad that PES offers this... as football is a team sport!
playing a lot of 2021 i'm more sure than ever, that the way you play determines the way the game plays out! take your time, thats my golden advice!
not saying one is playing it wrong, but some may not unleash the full potential of the game (and maybe their skill-set too)! ;)

have a good day yall! :SAL:

edit: i use the low hard ground pass to reach my forwards too (L1+double pressing cross). sometimes those hard driven low passes are the only way to go when my strikers are covered by some very good CB's!
 
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PRO_TOO said:
well... i do prefer playing the manual passes too. though pass is like an old habbit... :) i use it sometimes but i feel it "only" triggers the back heel mistake animation more often (it was said by others before). anyway... i also think that on the wings it make you player pass "behind the back with the heel" when a winger runs by. but i had that backheel lay off as well when i was just using X (i think i was using the RS for some fency dribble stuff at that time), so i'm not 100% sure.

i'm all good with the freedom regular fuma ground passes deliver. never ever i could go back to the staged riged sheme called PA!
just last night, when i was playing with Leipzig against Istanbul or Dortmund vs. Lazio... i had some "sharp as an axe" ground passes that split the defense so nicely.... delivering the ball to the striker!

talking about realism: i'm more and more convinced that "too much" of user input destroys some of the realism. its hard to describe for me and sure sounds weird first. ;)
when i dont push and rush for the ball hard and constant, but instead use the pressure feature(s!!) in combination with my active controlled player covering lanes and opponent recipients, the game unfolds so much better. i have times where i manage to hold the other team in their own third or in midfield for quite some time. so this covers a bit of the midfield/retreat flaw but it adds so much more.
when i take my time, in defense or offense, the whole game isnt constant end-to-end like it can be. its more like the real thing, limited due to those rigid retreating i admit. but hey, these days i'm even trying to hold my players high up the pitch when they do wanna retreat. sure, its a workaround (and definitely not perfect)... but what am i supposed to do?! :) i'm a player relying on switching players with RS a lot because it gives me more control (even when its more hectic at the sticks and buttons) over the player selection. this way i am able to push other teams into corners or force them to switch sides. its important to think as a team and make your mates work with you (in tandem with the active controlled player)! and i am so glad that PES offers this... as football is a team sport!
playing a lot of 2021 i'm more sure than ever, that the way you play determines the way the game plays out! take your time, thats my golden advice!
not saying one is playing it wrong, but some may not unleash the full potential of the game (and maybe their skill-set too)! ;)

have a good day yall! :SAL:

edit: i use the low hard ground pass to reach my forwards too (L1+double pressing cross). sometimes those hard driven low passes are the only way to go when my strikers are covered by some very good CB's!
Click to expand...

I used to say the same thing in previous years. I could notice easily the our input triggers CPU actions. Some people thought that it wasn’t true but I always thought otherwise. I see it so clearly! When I don’t use the sprint button, I defend better, I drag more fouls etc. Several years ago the developers stated that players would be punished if they tried to rush things. This was to avoid some gameplay mechanics that made the game too easy, like pressing all the time, or making first time passes with ease. Now if we start doing those things, the game reacts.
Some even argue that this is stupid because it forces you to play the game on a certain way. Well, I like to think that I’m dictating the pace and the thing is that sometimes I can’t, and cpu dictates instead. To my knowledge, PEs has the basic things nailed on paper, but it still needs a proper implemention. Things are still a bit confusing and this leeds to unhappy costumers, that don’t understand the reasons why some features exist. Like TS. It makes a lot of sense, but the way it influences the ML campaign is just unfair.

Still I got to say, this is my fix for football right now, and to be honest, I’m having a lot of fun.
 
tolgakaplans said:
Continuing to increase the Full Manual experience. This time I played with Shakhtar Donetsk against Real Madrid in the Champions League Group Stages. The game I played with 30 minutes and Super Star difficulty was incredibly enjoyable. Some moments in the match I felt like real life actions. But I am still struggling make goals.

Click to expand...

I have been Very negative about PES in the Last years, but Holy shit, that looks impressive as hell!!

Makes me want to consider getting PES, problem is that I still have pes2020, wich I desliked immensely, and I dont know How the 2021 could be any better.

Im holding my money for pes2022 on ps5.
 
Chris Davies said:
My huge problem with playing on manual passing, is that you can't make the AI play on "manual passing" too.

They never misplace a pass into empty space, and their pass accuracy is always ridiculously high on Superstar - a few people have pointed out that playing against the likes of a Championship team, or the poorest international teams in the game, you will see 90%+ pass accuracy (which is bizarre - and the opposite of what happens in every PES prior to last year's game, I think).

So to use manual and put myself at an even bigger disadvantage... Is that fun? Against the AI? (I'm genuinely asking!)

I've been going the opposite way - experimenting with higher PA levels and using fully-auto player switching (to increase defensive responsiveness, on @hitmanuk's advice), to try and level the playing field! Because if the AI are using PA2 or PA3 (and it's why their pass accuracy is CRAZY-HIGH), then I have to use that to stand a chance. (Because there's no AI pass accuracy slider...)
Click to expand...

They do miss passes more with manual passing. I see all the time
Play on professional
 
I might be crazy but I actually feel the AI shooting is a bit more wild on manual shooting? I have seen some obscene misses.
 
Manual passing is such an important gameplay change.
The AI plays on manual too, however sometimes they do these extra curvy and bouncy ground passes which go over defender's feet and bend much more(Not lob pass or chip through pass).
Can someone please help on how to do this type of pass on manual?
 
Ultimatum said:
Manual passing is such an important gameplay change.
The AI plays on manual too, however sometimes they do these extra curvy and bouncy ground passes which go over defender's feet and bend much more(Not lob pass or chip through pass).
Can someone please help on how to do this type of pass on manual?
Click to expand...
Yup, I can't stop playing 2021 on FUMA, It's really addictive. 20 minute matches to really get into a rhytm and it's so much fun and engaging.

I don't know if it answers your question but I think it's to do with holding more power in your pass, It's especially useful for passing to players further away you'll activate a bit of that curl and it leaves the ground a little.
 
Thank you @MafiaMurderBag and @Emroth
I've tried to replicate these passes by powering less and more and using any of the trigger and bumper combinations but with no success.
I thought they were contextual but the AI performs it in any scenario.
Finesse button (R2 on default) adds curve to passes and through but they are grounded and slow and not curve as much as these.
I'll try advanced and see.
Cheers
 
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Ultimatum said:
Thank you @MafiaMurderBag and @Emroth
I've tried to replicate these passes by powering less and more and using any of the trigger and bumper combinations but with no success.
I thought they were contextual but the AI performs it in any scenario.
Finesse button (R2 on default) adds curve to passes and through but they are grounded and slow and not curve as much as these.
I'll try advanced and see.
Cheers
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with power. You have to replicate the curve when performing advanced through ball. Leave the guide on and try to "draw" a curve before your player kicks the ball. Its easier to perform with lobbed through balls than it is with ground. And both take a lot of practice.
 
Ultimatum said:
Manual passing is such an important gameplay change.
The AI plays on manual too, however sometimes they do these extra curvy and bouncy ground passes which go over defender's feet and bend much more(Not lob pass or chip through pass).
Can someone please help on how to do this type of pass on manual?
Click to expand...
Part of it might be contextual. So body and ball position plus stats or traits may be important.
I’m currently busy with another title so Can’t have a look.
 
Thank you all for helping
On advanced I was able to get this curvy and bouncy pass reliably.
However I found that tha AI as in manual switches to advance with you as they now too were passing like advanced through balls.

I guess that means that they were on FUMA before and that this pass is possible contextually on normal manual passes.
I can't test this since I can't even do the trivela outside curl passes without advanced (On advanced they are really easy) which are possible contextually on normal manual pass.
Thank you all for helping out 😊
 
Follow Up
I don't know what I did, but now the passes are definitely possible on FUMA using ground pass(X button)
R2(finesse shot button) + X increases the likelihood of them being curvy.
Player stats and the angle you are passing relative to the direction you are facing etc. all influence the trajectory.
Thanks to everyone for helping me out😄
 
SmichiW said:
i have changed to manual passing for over 3 month and have to say that i never want to revert to PA!! yes its harder but way more realistic. I am very good with PA and can easy win 9 out of 10 games. With manual its a different (good) experience now. Really only thing PES needed is that CPU AI Sliders like Fifa has it
Click to expand...
which difficult level on your game?
 
Has anyone figured out how to do lay off weak passes with manual passing? Like, you can't just pass 1 metre ahead since even the smallest touch of "Pass button" sends the ball further than that. The only way I found is doing lob through balls (it seems they can actually be as weak as you want) but they are very awkward to execute and the player always have to waste time to control it. Not being able to make weak and extremely short passes is really limiting the options.

(I know you can get very weak and short passes with backheels, having to turn around and all that inconveient angle stuff, but I want to do very short passes even when I am in an optimal position)

Like I want to make a weak pass like on a red line but the shortest you can do on manual passing is the blue line.

1111.JPG
 
I've been playing on full manual since PES 2013. The biggest issue with it though is that Konami doesn't optimize the game for it. On startup, the game should give the player two options. Manual or assisted and gently nudge people to choose manual.
 
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