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Manchester United Thread

So you're saying that if I score a volley goal without meaning to, it's not a volley goal?

If I ski down a hill and jump on something without meaning to, it's not a jump?

If I buy a diet coke without meaning to, it's not a diet coke?

Reality check, please Lami.
 
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Not a kung fu kick. Player simply jumping to reach for the ball to either flick it on or control it, with eyes on ball. Clash happened. Foul given. No red. Move on.
 
Wow! Some of you just can't see it clear when it comes to United, can you?

Saba, with all due respect, here's the example I'd give:

We have, let's say, Ibrahimovic on the ball, with his back turned to the opponents' goal, he is to receive a pass which he has to trap with his back turned to the opponent, let's say, Lennon. As Ibra receives the ball he has his eyes completely on the ball he doesn't realise that Lennon is rushing in behind his back, he's turning towards his side and while in the shielding position, Ibra has his arms at chest height. Suddenly Lennon comes full speed and smashes his face into Ibra's elbow. By the rule book, that's an elbow to the face, straight red. But will it be justified if given? I'll leave that for you to decide. :)
 
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A Turkish former referee has claimed that Cuneyt Cakir's hopes of refereeing in the Champions League final have been dashed in the wake of his decision to send off Nani in the second leg of the last-16 tie between Manchester United and Real Madrid.

The 36-year-old official has been accused by some in the media of making the wrong call after he chose to dismiss the Portuguese winger for what he saw as an excessive high boot on Blancos full-back Alvaro Arbeloa.

Speaking after Tuesday's match, Serdar Tatli - a former Uefa referee - expressed his regret that Cakir's actions at Old Trafford may well have cost his compatriot the opportunity of presiding over a European curtain-raiser this season.

"Nani is looking for the ball. By the time Alvaro Arbeloa arrives, the Portuguese [Nani] doesn't even see him," he told NTVSpor.

"The action is definitely not deliberate. As his intention was to only play the ball, it should have been a yellow at the most.

"I am proud as a Turk to see Cuneyt at this stage, but he lowered his chances of a European Cup final last night [on Tuesday]."
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Goal.com
 
It is Nani's responsibility to MAKE SURE the coast is clear for acrobatics, if he doesn't then it's irresponsible and reckless. Nani doesn't even show signs of retracting his foot once it connects with Arbeloa, he just follows through.

I already said I probably wouldn't give a red card, but the referee is within his rights to do so. READ THE RULES! I linked them earlier in this thread.
 
Sabatasso said:
It is Nani's responsibility to MAKE SURE the coast is clear for acrobatics, if he doesn't then it's irresponsible and reckless. Nani doesn't even show signs of retracting his foot once it connects with Arbeloa, he just follows through.

I already said I probably wouldn't give a red card, but the referee is within his rights to do so. READ THE RULES! I linked them earlier in this thread.
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You are totally wrong. Just read the CL thread.
Oh and this was far from a kung-fu kick.
 
Sabato, while i understand your viewpoint id highly suggest watching the replay again. The ball was on a trajectory to go out, Nani s only option to keep the ball in play was to bring it down bc of the speed it was traveling at. Arbeloa spots the free ball and runs in to attempt to keep it in Utds third. Neither was reckless imho, both had their eyes on the ball. This whole 'making sure the coast is clear' idea is a bit ludicrous considering the pace of the game. They werent a foot away from each other at the commencement of the movement nor were they in a head on path. Both players got a blow from it, Arbeloa in the chest and Nani gets his leg swung around akwardly. Where the bad part comes in for me personally is that both stay down, and players like dirty Ramos come out of nowhere to get in the refs face, who then decides to make a show out of it
 
gerd said:
You are totally wrong. Just read the CL thread.
Oh and this was far from a kung-fu kick.
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That is your opinion, which is no more valuable than mine unless you can bring proof in terms of written rules that support your claim.

Funny to see that you're also denying the fact that an unintentional flying kick isn't a flying kick. Logic is absent in these parts I understand...

Next time, try bringing up a gun in a bank and claim that you mistook it for your wallet. I am sure the cops will believe it wasn't a robbery attempt. My point, it is what it is even if it isn't intended, flying kick or an attempt to control the ball.
 
Sabatasso said:
That is your opinion, which is no more valuable than mine unless you can bring proof in terms of written rules that support your claim.

Funny to see that you're also denying the fact that an unintentional flying kick isn't a flying kick. Logic is absent in these parts I understand...

Next time, try bringing up a gun in a bank and claim that you mistook it for your wallet. I am sure the cops will believe it wasn't a robbery attempt. My point, it is what it is even if it isn't intended, flying kick or an attempt to control the ball.
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So raising my leg in the intention to reach for a ball to get it under control is considered kung fu now? If you're arguing for the sake of arguing then maybe you'd want to get a kung fu lesson on how to do a proper flying kick, because what Nani did is considered a fail in regards to kung fu.

A football player trying to get a flying ball under control with his foot is similar to someone taking a pistol to a bank. More of this logic, please.

Arsenals-Dennis-Bergkamp-008.jpg


Pull out the rule book ref! You should've red carded him!
 
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2 things:

1. Good to see just about all of the sensible, well-informed fans on this forum of all clubs share the same opinion
2. Anyone who doesn't think it was a ridiculous red - why do you think the internet/world/punditry/refereeing world etc exploded? United have been hard done by before, in almost identical situation 2 years ago against Bayern. No big uproar. No former referees (including Turkish) saying it was wrong. This isn't about it being United, it's about it being an awful decision.

All that said, 2 more things:

1. I apologise for being a d*ck to some posters immediately afterwards. Given the past history of some I had thought they were 'trolling' (and some where) but not all, and I shouldn't be like that with anyone at my age. The internet is a dangerous place.

2. United should have reacted better to the card. It was obviously a shock (I've literally never seen Fergie that mad, and he gets mad a lot) but we were still winning and were stilling going through. Should have been able to hold out for at least another 10 minutes, even against that talent.
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
Apparently UEFA are taking action against Man Utd:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21691929

But it's for not fulfilling media duties (i.e. not giving interviews) after the match. Most probably it will be a fine.
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On that, better we get a fine rather than Fergie banned for the rest of his career for saying what he was really thinking.

And secondly I can almost guarantee Fergie will get a larger fine than any of the racism related incidents.

UEFA's priorities are:
1. Maximise revenue from football tv companies
2. Maximise revenue from football sponsorship companies
3. Maximise revenue from footbal bodies
4. Have awesome dinners and lunches
5. The game itself
 
Yeah I agree it's better not do the media stuff (interviews) and get a fine, rather than risk the players (and Ferguson) being interviewed while they were still seething at the decision - as you say if they said something controversial UEFA would hit them with a ban.
 
Lami said:
Arsenals-Dennis-Bergkamp-008.jpg


Pull out the rule book ref! You should've red carded him!
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Ah, that's the picture they're using to make Dennis Bergkamp's statue at the Emirates Stadium :)

Back on topic, just my two cents: that was a moment of mental diarrhoea from the Turkish ref.

Nani doesn't have to do a 360 sweep of his bearings before jumping to control a ball, this is impossible and unreasonable to ask of a player. I've seen players attempting bicycle kicks near opponents' heads, I've seen Abou Diaby almost ripping John Terry's head off with a kick and I've seen many more worse kicks, elbows to the face and clashes of head.

These are accidents that are inherent to this sport. I'll go as far as saying Nani was a bit of a twat feigning an injury there, but overall it should never be a straight red. That was just imbecile.

And I couldn't believe it when I saw Roy Keane, of all people, endorsing that red card! What's the world come to?
 
Rentboy said:
And I couldn't believe it when I saw Roy Keane, of all people, endorsing that red card! What's the world come to?
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Roy Keane has always been a c*nt, hated by all except United supporters. Slowly over the past 5 years he's ruined that relationship too. The Irish hate him for being a tw*t and ruining their WC campaign. United fans are done with him after the latest in a long line of bitter, idiotic 'view points' which are just designed to be contrary.

So pretty much he's left with his dogs liking him. Which, from his autobiography, is all he really cared about anyway.
 
Lami said:
So raising my leg in the intention to reach for a ball to get it under control is considered kung fu now?
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It is if he connects with an opposing player. Sticking out your leg and planting the knots in someone's ribcage is not a very nice thing to do.

The gun in bank allusion was more an allusion towards how little "I didn't mean to" actually mean, but I guess it was too much to ask of you to see the connection. I'll use teaspoons in the future.

An official poll here showed about 53% saying the red card was too harsh, 31% said the card was fine and the rest didn't have an opinion. I didn't check how many voters, but it's fairly representative to how people are sided at the University as well. So there are more people than Keane and myself that thinks the card is fair enough.
 
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beachryan said:
Roy Keane has always been a c*nt
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Well there it is, you said it better than anyone else. He is! One of the biggest seen in football. I just didn't want to say this here in a United thread and look like a provocation :P
 
Sabatasso said:
It is if he connects with an opposing player. Sticking out your leg and planting the knots in someone's ribcage is not a very nice thing to do.

The gun in bank allusion was more an allusion towards how little "I didn't mean to" actually mean, but I guess it was too much to ask of you to see the connection. I'll use teaspoons in the future.
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You're just making up examples in the real world now. If I ran up to someone and kicked them in the shin on the street it would be assault. There's no point in trying to create real-world parallels because this is a competitive, physical sport governed by a completely different set of rules.

Listen, my personal belief is that the ref has not followed the letter of the law here, it is not a tackle so the rule about studs raised doesn't come into it, and a red for violent conduct requires intent, which there clearly isn't. It was reckless play and deserved a yellow at worst, akin to trying a bicycle kick in the box. I've been backed up in this by multiple referees, but admittedly not UEFA (shock).

In the end it doesn't matter. The ref has chosen to make a very big call in a very big match that was unnecessary. As a professional, I hope that he spends a long time thinking about his actions, and becomes a better referee for it. Not a single player on the pitch expected a red there, and that should have told him something.
 
beachryan said:
You're just making up examples in the real world now. If I ran up to someone and kicked them in the shin on the street it would be assault. There's no point in trying to create real-world parallels because this is a competitive, physical sport governed by a completely different set of rules.
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Do you have "knots" on your street shoes? I thought "knots" was indicator enough but I'll make sure to include the obligatory "on the pitch" as well...
 
beachryan said:
Roy Keane has always been a c*nt, hated by all except United supporters. Slowly over the past 5 years he's ruined that relationship too. The Irish hate him for being a tw*t and ruining their WC campaign. United fans are done with him after the latest in a long line of bitter, idiotic 'view points' which are just designed to be contrary.

So pretty much he's left with his dogs liking him. Which, from his autobiography, is all he really cared about anyway.
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This is really one of the most funny posts i've ever read on this forum. This sudden insight comes 15 years too late.
Next year when Rooney plays for another he will be an overrated player.
It's tragi-comical how the fans of English teams just don't seem able to see that one of their players is an idiot. They are unbale to be objective about their own team and players...
 
Football fans in failing to be objective about their own team's players shocker. You're not exempt from this either, gerd, so don't try and act like evo-web's bastion of objectivity.
 
So now that we can start moving on past red cards (til Sunday, at least, when given the accusations and week I can pretty much guarantee Howard Webb will not send anyone off) can we talk about Rooney?

I actually think his contributions are massively underrated, because he is always compared to 2 freaks of nature. No one has contributed more goals in the prem than him in the past 5 years. He has something like 11 goals and 9 assists this season in under 20 games. For all the accusations of his ineptitude, he's still a magnificent footballer.

And so why is Fergie trying to get rid? Because make no mistake, that is the only, literally, reason that Fergie wouldn't start him at home against Real Madrid. It's not tactical, Fergie isn't new to this game. It's a statement.

My new working theory...big sale to a sugar daddy club, and we bring in Lewandoski (lots of rumors of a deal being done, I feel like everyone assumes its Bayern but it's not final).

For me the wrong choice, but then Rooney is 28 this year and given his, erm, dedication to his fitness, you do wonder if he's going to have a particularly long career at the very highest level.

If Fergie pulls that off I'll be sad because I really rate Rooney, but it'll be just another example of his sheer ruthlessness.
 
i love rooney, one of my favorite players to watch of all time. When you look at him you would think he was a rugby player not a footballer with a brilliant touch, sublime passer at times, and able to finish with the best of them...
 
Aboutreika18 said:
Football fans in failing to be objective about their own team's players shocker. You're not exempt from this either, gerd, so don't try and act like evo-web's bastion of objectivity.
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I agree, i'm not evo-web's bastion of objectivity. I never claimed to be, you're intelligent enough to realize that. I understand that people are biased towards their favourite team, in my case Racing Genk and Spurs.
But there is the obvious: i can also see that Adebayor is a cunt and Walker isn't the brightest player in the world. Remeber the City-Spurs match last season, i wass the one who defended Balotelli most of all after his charge...
About Keane: 90% (well less as a matter of fact, but a big part at least) of the evo-webbers are saying for years that Keane is a cunt. Every time somebody mentioned that you got a bunch of United fans attacking you for "hating" their team. Now that Keane has said something that isn't in Man Utd's favour, he suddenly is a cunt...that is tribalism.
And i"m writing exactly the same things in the Liverpool thread about Suarez.

I'm far from being above bias, but i can't stand tribalism...i'm pretty sure you would agree with me if this was the Liverpool thread and we were talking about Suarez. Be honest...
 
beachryan said:
So now that we can start moving on past red cards (til Sunday, at least, when given the accusations and week I can pretty much guarantee Howard Webb will not send anyone off) can we talk about Rooney?

I actually think his contributions are massively underrated, because he is always compared to 2 freaks of nature. No one has contributed more goals in the prem than him in the past 5 years. He has something like 11 goals and 9 assists this season in under 20 games. For all the accusations of his ineptitude, he's still a magnificent footballer.

And so why is Fergie trying to get rid? Because make no mistake, that is the only, literally, reason that Fergie wouldn't start him at home against Real Madrid. It's not tactical, Fergie isn't new to this game. It's a statement.

My new working theory...big sale to a sugar daddy club, and we bring in Lewandoski (lots of rumors of a deal being done, I feel like everyone assumes its Bayern but it's not final).

For me the wrong choice, but then Rooney is 28 this year and given his, erm, dedication to his fitness, you do wonder if he's going to have a particularly long career at the very highest level.

If Fergie pulls that off I'll be sad because I really rate Rooney, but it'll be just another example of his sheer ruthlessness.
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I really like Rooney, and the acting out and things like that do not bother me in the least. Shit happens. It would be super weird to see him go, especially if it's another league.

And being ruthless like that is, in my opinion, a good thing. Look at how some other players/managers get along. The whole Tevez saga for instance. It's complete bullshit for a player to be able to get away with crap like that. If more managers can do what Ferguson has done and freeze a player out and just move on it would send a message to players who currently feel that they are above the team/league/law.
 
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