Make the single player experience playable

You could cover a lot of playing styles in 20/30 slots. Fair enough if you want to have (e.g.) every Premiership club and the top clubs in Europe all playing perfectly life-like then you'd struggle to cram it all in, but a more generic approach is workable and still preferable to the double-press-fest, I think.

There aren't that many genuinely unique teams. If Wolves have +5 in Crossing compared to Burnley, you wouldn't notice; if Stoke have 80 and Arsenal have 15, you would. Once you get in to the MM it would all be about variation of style - even more applicable if you're managing in a league that you aren't that familiar with.
 
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We could also do with some sort of global stat modifier. I'm sick of seeing Dagenham & Redbridge CBs playing with the reactions and agility of Messi.

Not that the stats matter, as the cpu just temporarily sets them to 99 in any particular situation that requires it.
 
Yes this is one of the points to make when comparing PES and FIFA.

I play singleplayer more than Multiplayer when it comes to football games, I just love ML or Manager Mode.

Fifa is by far the better game technically, the engine is more realistic and a better representation of football, but what holds my interest longer. Manager Mode in FIFA 10 or ML in PES2010.......PES. I dont have it yet, but I just know it will after having played the demo. It was the same with FIFA09, a great game, but I ended up switching back to PES6 for the singleplayer experience, it just lasts longer has depth, I didnt get angry when I lost, and wins were hard fought. FIFA was too frustrating, I ended up scoring the same goals over and over. And the AI just used to used the same tactic over and over again, long ball up to free player in the middle/upfront, turn, lay it off to wingers, cross.

In PES the variation of attacking play and the type of goals is what impresses me. Long range bullets, scrappy tap ins, one on ones, Headers, deflections. Over the course of a ML season, the season appeared organic, you just didnt know how you were going to score next or where and opposition threat was going to come from. Oh and the player individualism of course.

The two many 1on1's was a big thing in FIFA 09 and it hasnt been rectified in 10.
 
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Feels like Ive gone back 5 years......great engine but needs a lot of stat tweaking!

So say we have 20 custom tactics, let's divide it into a set of generic playing styles with the appropriate settings. I'll start off a list and Chris will hopefully add it, after the discussion / adjustments, to the first page with the stadiums.

Bolton - Deep+Longball:
70/90/O-75/90/90/O-5/70/10/C + a very defensive 4-4-1-1

Arsenal - Possesion+Shortpassing:
65/20/FF-70/30/85/FF-30/40/70/C + standard formation

Villa - Compact+Wingattack:
80/70/O-40/80/85/O-30/60/40/C + edit their standard formation (CB's and DM deeper, wingers wider)

Chelsea - Slow&Possesion
40/40/O-50/80/90/O-10/40/80/C
Formation 4-4-2 edit: Deep CB's, Make Cole and Bosingwa WB's, Diamond midfield with both sidemidfielder narrow, Anelka top corner of the penaltyarea

ManCity - Counter&Flair
80/60/FF-70/50/90/FF-20/55/30/C
Formation 4-4-2 edit: Deep CB's, Narrow RB, Barry bottom of the centre circle, Ireland rightside of circle, SWP wide, Robinho narrow, Tevez SS for Ade

ManU - Balanced&Wingattack
70/40/O-30/70/95/O-40/40/80/C
Formation 4-5-1 edit; Defense in one line with WB's as far wide as possible, CM's on both sides of circle on HW-line, wingers as far wide as possible, Rooney behind Berbatov as CAM

Deep + Central counter attack (Everton?) = ?


What else do we have? Tbh I think with 5 or 6 settings we can have the majority of teams sorted with slight tweaks here and there for individual teams. Now who knows what slider settings enable to correct result for these teams? Dryzer?

If anything I think we should exaggerate the settings to really notice the difference (what PES does).
 
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Sometimes here in Germany, some teams plays extremely defense-minded (is this the right word in english? or what do you say for a team that playes defense, defense, defense all the time)

With 11 players near there own box, always double teaming the opponent on the ball. They try to counter attack you with long balls, don't pass it around a lot they rather run with the ball try to win some time, get a corner or a free kick. They play a very slow kind of football, a very physical style, they try to battle you out.

I make a tactic for this kind of team and i think it is very much spot on. If you play this team you can get easily into there half but then you have to fight for inches. You may give it a try. Pass the ball quickly, play fast passes, change sides a lot to find space. You will find space, because of the double teaming near there box if you let them run.

Ok, here we go. Very, very defense-minded teams.

Build up:
Speed 18 , Passing 82, Positioning Organised

Chance Creation:
Passing 80, Crossing 82, Shooting 85, Positioning: Organised

Defence:
Pressure 8, Aggression 67, Team width 20, Defender Line: Cover
 
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Great work Robbery, thats precisely what we need! I'm not sure, but can we just use an exageration of Barca&Arsenal for their type of play? They, especially barca, just pass and pass in small triangles with little through balls. Do they do that in teh game aswell? Played Arsenal the other day but found them to be lacking, maybe Barca's style is more obvious.

Does your style play a lot of longballs? Really need to get the ingame explanations online to make a set. I'll go look for some.
 
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This is from Bluechampion:

custom-tactics.jpg


Link to explanation:

http://fifa.bluechampions.com/2008/...suggestion-for-realistic-gameplay-in-fifa-09/

Build up speed: The maximum that you set this for any team should be 50. Again, don't set it to more than 50 to any team. The reason is, the pitch size in FIFA 09 is small. It is not as big as it's in Pro Evo. In a small-sized pitch, it the build up speed is set to 70 or 80, it would just be a game of counterattacks. When you lose the ball in your attacking third, because of the high build up speed, you'll see the ball the opponents attacking third in the very next moment. With high build up speed there won't be midfield battles. That's why you should slow down the build up speed to 50 for the quickest team and then may be 10 or 15, for the slowest team. For Man Utd and Arsenal, it should be 50. For Chelsea and Liverpool, it can be 40.

Build up passing: Set this to a maximum of 70. For teams like Man Utd and Chelsea, set this to 60. For Liverpool, set this to 70. For Arsenal, set this to 40. This will determine what mix of short and long passing will be made by the team. Long passes will mean there will be 50-50 balls in the air which really adds to the excitement. A 40 for Arsenal will mean they will make mostly short passes and very occasional short passes. Even here, the pitch size makes a difference. Too much of short passing will create a lot of congestion while the long passes will change the sides of play and even out the player distribution on the pitch.

Chance creation passing: This shows how much risk the teams would take while making the passes. This means looking for the killer passes and also the off the ball players making runs to get those killer passes. Set this to as high as possible. For teams like Chelsea and Man Utd, I've set this to 90. This means these teams would play some very enterprising football which adds to the excitement. For Liverpool, I've set this to 80 and for Arsenal I've put this to 70. I don't want to set this to less than 50 for any top half teams. This tactical slider plays a major role in making your games play an unpredictable attacking game.

Chance creation crossing: This slider's value would determine where and how off the ball players would make themselves available to receive the ball and whether they would make movements expecting a cross. I have no suggestions here. Please set this up as you find it appropriate. I've set Chelsea's crossing at 60, Man Utd's crossing at 50, Arsenal's at 30 and Liverpool's at 60. Feel free to set this as per your choice.

Chance creation shooting: This slider's value would determine whether the off the ball players position themselves to take a shot and whether they would think it's a priority to position themselves for a shot instead of looking for a passing position. I have no suggestions here. Please set this up as you find it appropriate. I've set Chelsea's shooting at 80, Man Utd's shooting at 80, Arsenal's at 50 and Liverpool's at 70. Feel free to set this as per your choice.

Team width: For all the top teams, the team width is set to 60 - 70. Teams with good full backs should have a 70 here. I've seen that with the team width set highly, players get spread out on the pitch. The full backs participate in the attacks. When you set it to low, the defenders narrow down in the centre which created invariably the same type of games where you'd pass it to the flanks and then bring it in. With the team width set high, you're challenged at every part of the pitch, instead of leaving you room and space in the flanks which produces similar games.

Pressure: For the top teams set this to just 15. Anything higher, again, produces similar kind of games such which have mostly throughballs and lobbed throughballs. When you set the pressure to just 15, you'll see your defenders backing up when the opponent has the ball (that's quite a sight!). And then when you win the ball with a defender, you have about 75 to 80% of the pitch still to be covered and with slow build up, it creates a lovely football game.

Aggression: This will have to be set to 70. This is as explained in my other thread. The higher this is, the higher the tackling/ball winning mentality of the players. If set this any higher, you might see a lot of cards and sending offs. If you set this any lower, the crucial tackles may not be made in time. Unless you use skill, you won't be able to waltz past the players. Forces you to pass around and build up creative attacks.

Positioning - Build up & Chance Creation: Set both these to FREE FORM. The top teams have top quality players who have varied attributes to be able to do well with 'free form' positioning. Again, with 'free form' positioning, players do make overlapping runs and making unpredictable build ups and attacks. Also, it is the AI which is playing so 'free form' would do well.
Click to expand...
 
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TikTikTikTikTik said:
Great work Robbery, thats precisely what we need! I'm not sure, but can we just use an exageration of Barca&Arsenal for their type of play? They, especially barca, just pass and pass in small triangles with little through balls. Do they do that in teh game aswell? Played Arsenal the other day but found them to be lacking, maybe Barca's style is more obvious.

Does your style play a lot of longballs? Really need to get the ingame explanations online to make a set. I'll go look for some.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are trying to play longballs rather then short passes. But they are not very good at it, because they run to much with the ball. But this is the way i like it for this kind of teams.

If you want to have a team playing some Barca Style, that's what i find out you need to do with the Slider:

Build up Passing Slider needs a low value, that means they play mostly short passes.

Chance Creation Passing Slider needs a low value, that means they play save passes. This way they will have a very high ball possession most of the time.

Chance Creation Shooting Slider needs a low value, that means they will try to do the extra pass to find the best shooting opportunity.

Then you need to find a good value for Build up Speed Slider and take down Chance Creation Crossing Slider a little bit. You will need some test games to find the right mix but i think you can simulate a barca playing sytle, yes.

I will try to do a tactic later this evening. Just to test some things out.
 
http://www.operationsports.com/foru...ifa09-ea-sports-updated-9-28-56k-warning.html

Build Up Play

There are three Build Up settings in the game: Speed, Passing, and Positioning. Build Up settings affect how your team will play in the first two-thirds of the pitch. The CPU will execute passes based on these settings. Your players will position themselves based on these settings. It is still up to you to make the correct passes. Build Up settings mostly affect the Central Midfielders, Wing Defenders and Outside Midfielders.

Speed – Build Up speed determines the speed at which the attacking team advances play in the first two thirds of the pitch. This not only changes the emphasis on Forward, Lateral, or Negative play, but also alters the urgency that teammates have getting into forward positions.
Slow – The team is patient building plays, often passing the ball around in defence with players regularly passing backwards. Players are more selective in their runs going forward, and put the emphasis on finding good space over finding forward space.
Balanced – The team does not build play particularly fast or slow.
Fast – The team looks to get the ball from back to front as quickly as possible. Players choose to position themselves in more advanced positions on the pitch. Players make more forward runs.

Passing – Build Up Passing Distance determines the general passing direction, and the style of support play from teammates in the first two thirds of the pitch. This changes the emphasis on long or short passes both on and off the ball.
Short – The team will try to build using short passes. Players closest to the ball will come to support.
Mixed – the team does not build using a particularly short or long passing game.
Long – the team will look to play the longer ball, perhaps targeting a tall striker or looking for a ball over the top. Players farther from the ball possessor will attempt to find space. Close players will anticipate the long ball and push up to look for the knock down or flick on.

Positioning – Build Up Positioning determines the freedom that players have to make runs, and support in positions that stray from their formation position in the first two thirds of the pitch.
Organized – Players tend not to stray too far from their assigned positions during the course of the match. The team maintains structure when building play.
Free Form – Players have the freedom to make runs out of position. For example, forwards can make more runs wide to collect the ball, fullbacks can make more overlapping runs, wide players can cut in more, and central midfielders can make runs to the corner or overlap the strikers.
Click to expand...

Chance Creation

Chance Creation relates to how teams perform in the attacking third of the field. It covers what types of passes they will attempt, the frequency of their crosses, how often they like to shoot, and what types of runs they will make. Chance Creation has the most effect on Forwards and Attacking Midfielders. There are four settings for Chance Creation: Passing, Crossing, Shooting, and Positioning.

Passing – Affects the amount of risk the ball possessor takes when making passes in the final third. This also affects the emphasis on forward runs and support runs by teammates of the ball carrier.
Safe – To maintain possession, the team will rarely try a pass that may risk losing the ball, choosing to wait for the ideal opportunity. Players will ensure that the ball possessor has safe options when positioning themselves, and will wait for a good opportunity to make a penetrating run.
The team does not look to play particularly safely or riskily.
Risky – The team will always try for the killer pass. Players look for every opportunity to make runs into space and behind the defence. Teammates won’t be as concerned about ensuring safe options for the ball possessor.

Crossing – Affects the tendency and frequency for players to put crosses into the box. This also affects the timing of when players make runs into the box, and how many players will look to get into the box to get on the end of a cross.
Little – The team tries to avoid crossing the ball. Instead, they will try to play out of the crossing zone by passing back, or getting to the end line looking to cut the ball back to a teammate for a shot.
Normal – The team will put crosses into the box when there is a good opportunity.
Lots – The team tries to get the ball into the box at every opportunity. The ball possessor will try to cross the ball early. Teammates will make earlier runs into the box.

Shooting – Chance Creation Shooting affects the amount of shots that the team will take in the final third.
Little – The team will be patient, and only shoot if the opportunity is extremely good, opting to keep possession. Long shots will be rare.
The team will perform a variety of long shots and short shots depending on the situation.
Lots – The team will shoot at every opportunity. Teammates will make the extra effort to position themselves looking for shooting opportunities, for example staying just outside the box looking for a layoff, or positioning themselves for the cutback.

Positioning – Chance Creation Positioning determines the freedom that players have to make runs, and support in positions in the final third.
Organized – Players tend not to stray too far from their assigned positions during the course of the match. The team maintains structure when creating chances.
Free Form – Players have the freedom to make runs out of position. For example, forwards can make runs wide to collect the ball, fullbacks can make more overlapping runs, wide players can cut in more, central midfielders can make runs to the corner or overlap the strikers or wide midfielders.
Click to expand...

Defence

Manchester United may have the most prolific scorer in the world with Cristiano Ronaldo, but the reason they won the Premiership was their defence. With a league low of 22 goals against, Man U locked it down in the back all season long. While you may not have the same tools in your arsenal, applying the proper Custom Tactics will help you keep the ball out of your own net.

You can adjust where on the field your defence starts to bring pressure, how aggressively they tackle, the width of your defence, and what kind of line they hold in the back.

Pressure – Defensive Pressure determines how high up the pitch the team will start to pressure the opposition.
Deep – The team drops back and allows the opposition time in their own half in exchange for getting numbers behind the ball.
Medium – The team will start to defending in their opponent’s half, but not the full length of the pitch.
High – The team will apply full pressure in their opponent’s half. Wide midfielders and fullbacks will push high on the ball side to make it difficult for the opposition to play out. This tactic is effective but leaves lots of space open for the ball over the top behind the defence.

Aggression – Defensive Aggression determines how hard the team will tackle and how much pressure is applied to the ball possessor. But be careful, because high aggression can result in a higher number of fouls.
Contain – The team tries to contain the ball possessor, with players rarely diving into tackles or trying to outnumber the ball carrier.
Press – The team dives into tackles hard, and will slide whenever possible.
Double – The team will look to tackle fiercely and in numbers, sending an extra player to the ball possessor as often as possible.

Team Width – Defensive width affects how much the team will shift to the ball side when defending.

Narrow – The team will defend compactly. Players will pinch in on the far side to cover teammates and allow for ball side pressure. When the ball is central, the team will pack the middle of the pitch and allow more room on the wings.
Normal – The team will not try to defend particularly narrowly or widely.
Wide – The team will not pinch as much. Players on the far side will mark opponent tightly, sacrificing cover in favour of making it difficult for the opposition to pull them out of shape.

Defender Line – Defender Line affects the shape of your defence, and whether or not they play the offside trap.
Cover – The players in the back pinch, drop, and cover each other providing depth in defence. This makes through balls more difficult to play, but allows the opposition the freedom to pinch higher.
Offside Trap – The team plays with a flat backline, and looks for the opportunity to step up and catch the opposition offside. The opposition won’t have the freedom of pushing high, but this is a dangerous tactic. When the trap is broken it usually results in an easy scoring opportunity.
Click to expand...
 
Boys you really need the shooting stats whacked up above 80 otherwise they wont hit any longshots!

Because theres something wrong with the attacking a.i. If you have it lower than 80 they will pass and pass until a perfect opportunity arises, its really a bug as it needs something doing cross team wide with the actual a.i itself not the sliders - however adjusting this slider unusually high tends to rectify this at least until a patch is forthcoming.

trust me i have experimented endlessly with it.
 
@Dryzer

I think for a team like Barca it's ok to have a low shooting slider. Because a team like Barca is usually looking to make this extra pass just to find the perfect opportunity. If i play against a CPU-Barca-Team i expect them to pass it around, trying to get into my box instead of taking many longshots.

As you can see, if you look at my tactic above if i play a defense-mind team i prefer a high shooting slider like 80-90. Because this team will take every single chance to shoot. They won't get many so they take whatever may come. Barca not. They pass it around until they find a clean, free shot.

Of course in real life they probably will shoot a lot more, they will mix it up way better. But i think in FIFA you can't get both. So you need to make a decision. And for me personally i want a CPU Barca Team with a lot of passing, combinations, extra passes to get into the box and shoot from a close range.

btw i struggle to express myself in this language. Its not easy and i need to work on it. You can correct me anytime, if you feel so. It's appreciated.

Now i try to do a nice Barca tactic and here we go.

Build up:
Speed 67 , Passing 26, Positioning Free

Chance Creation:
Passing 50, Crossing 40, Shooting 54, Positioning Free

Defence:
Pressure 70, Aggression 32, Team width 70, Defender Line: Cover

Give it a go. I think it is ok and it is what i would expect if i play a CPU-Barca-Team. It is a first try and it may get better. But it's good enough for testing i guess.

And please, compare this tactic with the defense-team-tactic. It is like night and day. So changing sliders have a huge effect. We should work on this together mates. Its worth.
 
Good work Robbery, will have to try it all out this week. Maybe we can split up the 6 or so generic settings (or more if people have some suggestions) that we each do one or two (depending on who want's to join in) and then we can give it ago and have another comment/adjustment round and then lock them down. Hopefully we can get it sorted near the time a MM patch is released and then we can really enjoy the game :D
 
Thanks, just wanted to check since I havn't properly delved into that side of it yet, although I'm planning to. I want to create customised formations and tactics for all the Premiership teams over the next few weeks.
 
This is fantastic work. Only just noticed this thread, and am immediately all over it.

Somewhere there is an unreal football sim, it just requires us coaxing it out
 
The 5-6 Generic tactics idea, sounds like a great plan, will be keeping my eye on how this turns out definitely.
 
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Right got to report as I just spent time chasing shadows.

I made a Barca tactic and played on Legendary. They're good, and Iniesta and Xavi run the show.

Not tried Robbery's, but this was v realistic

Build up:
Speed 52 , Passing 12, Positioning Free

Chance Creation:
Passing 25, Crossing 11, Shooting 44, Positioning Free

Defence:
Pressure 60, Aggression 30, Team width 55, Defender Line: Cover


I also tried Madrids, but I've not seen enough of them this season to accurately depict how they are. Will do some other teams, if people like this, and think I'm half decent
 
Ok guys,

Tried some today; Arsenal, Bolton, Villa

Played only AI - AI matches to see how they pan out and was impressed. The settings need some tweaking (10 points make a lot of difference) but I went for the OTT version to test it out.

Bolton:
70/90/O-75/90/90/O-5/70/10/C + a very defensive 4-4-1-1

Arsenal:
65/20/FF-70/30/85/FF-30/40/70/C + standard formation

Villa:
80/70/O-40/80/85/O-30/60/40/C + edit of their standard formation (CB's and DM deeper, wingers wider)

Also did a formation edit as otherwise the defense pushes up too far.

So played them all against each other and you can really tell the difference;
Arsenal play all these small intricate passes with the attackers running all over the place looking for space, really fluid movements and then a good amount of shots near the area.
Villa sit reasonably deep but when they have the ball they counter at ridiculous speed on the wings, in a good way, and put a cross in at every oppertunity
Bolton sit back and fight for their lives and when they do get the ball it usually ends up being a long ball to Davies, who heads it either on to the in space running elmander or he heads it back to one of the few supporting midfielders who then picks out Elmander with a througball. They also shoot and cross at the earliest oppertunity. Its great to see them create a 1 or 2 decent chances per half with totally oppertunistic attacks but you can tell they just don't have the quality to finish most of them, but they get close.

Really impressed with them so far, they can do with some subtle tweaks but as an exaggerated base they work well.

Played a Bolton - Ars match just now and Arsenal were all over Bolton, ended with 60% possesion and 11 attempts vs 3 for Bolton. However Bolton managed to score a sloppy goal from a Freekick in the 75th min and ended up hanging on for the remainder of the match, even more then usual. Arsenal were getting desperate with even the wingbacks overlapping and putting crosses in, but they couldnt force the equaliser. It's fun to see Bolton pack the 18yrd line and Arsenal having to pass from side to side eventually putting in a cross (which is confortably defended) or try a clever throughball with the striker usually having 2 defenders all over him. Bolton also sit back and concede possesion for about 50/60% of the field (so just past the halfway line is when they really start to pressure you).
 
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Thank you guys. I'm happy things starting now and i'm looking forward to test all of your tactics. :APPLAUD:

Unfortunately my wife likes to look a movie picture which is called "Tatsächlich Liebe" with Hugh Grant. :SHOCK: That sounds wunderbar and much, much, much, much, much better than playing FIFA.

So your tactics have to wait until tomorrow. Oh, she's looking over :OOOH:
 
Great stuff TikTik.

I tried something very similar yesterday, but with all 12 SPL teams, making, amomgst other, St Mirren like your exaggerated Bolton style and Celtic like your Arsenal. I got similarly pleasing results, both playing teams off agaionst other as AIvAI, and participating myself on be-a-pro mode.

As well as the clear differences in playing styles and depth it gives to the gameplay, what I particluarly liked was the way individual players seem to stand out, like Davies and Elmander in your Bolton example. Rather than just being a team of 10 generic, indistinct robots, with the exaggerated tactics, you start to notice the roles of individual players and the importance they have to the team as a whole. Brings the game to life and you get to know who you can rely on, and who's a bit iffy.

For example, Hibs' Riordan down the left wing always seems to create danger to the opposition, but Johansson down the right wing tends to run into dead-ends and lose possession. So I aim to get it out the left when I can.

Setting the shooting slider high, I'm now seeing some long range efforts from the AI pinging into the net :).

Keep up the good work, chaps.
 
@ Kirunaru,

Not sure, think it will work as a basis which you then exaggerrate, however you need to bump up the shooting to 80+ as someone has already said.

@ Gomito,

You go into edit mode and set the new custom tactic and/or formation as the default. Then when you start a MM this will be their tactic througout the mode. Although if you update the squads before starting your MM I think they will be reset again. So make sure you don't update once you have done the stadiums, tactics, formations.

@ Robbery, used your settings as a base (for bolton), however due to the buildup speed being really low they would mostly lose the ball in their own half trying to keep possesion. So I bumped it up to 70 and they basicly tried to attack with 3 or 4 guys with a combination of longballs and some quick 1-2's on the wing with a cross. Found this great as it was typical bolton (as Ive described in the previous post) as they kept 7,8 guys in their own half and would really double up and be aggressive in the tackles.

I also tweaked Arsenal and put their passing (chance creation) at 50, thinking that they would keep the ball better and retain possesion even more. However They ended up losing the ball more and being quite blunt in attack. I think it had to do with a combination of freeflowing movement and save passes, they had trouble finding each other, yet bumping it back up to 75 with freeflowing meant they would try all these small intricate passes/throughball/combinations and that combined with the freeflowing movement meant they found each other really well. So I think certain aspects are really linked strongly to each other. So maybe for Chelsea we should have 50 passing and organised and that will allow them to keep the ball really well. Won't be able to test it tonight so I will await what you have found. :D

@ Winston,

Yeah you really start to notice player skills, Song would mostly pass wide to keep possesion for Ars, whilst Cech/arshavin would be doing really nice small throughballs/movements and V Persie really tried to make some space and have a shot or play it out wide for Wallcott, who would speed away from the defender only to put in a crap cross :D. Same with Villa, Petrov was really impressive with his passing with quite a few long crossfield balls being played to the wingers, Milner would put in a cross, whilst Young would take a player on and then put in a cross, or cut in and cross with his right. Davies was really strong for Bolton winning a lot of headers to keep possesion.
 
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