Liverpool ALLOWED to defend CL title...

jamie_mack said:
What aload of bollocks i cant believe they havnt give us your UEFA cup place surley that would be the right thing to do aswell!
Click to expand...


Condolences, bro. That is some bullshizz. Would love to see Musampa, SWP and Reyna in Europe. Is there going to be a campaign to let them in? Its not as though they are taking anyone else's spot, now, is it???
 
. . in the meantime. . .WE ARE IN! \\:o/ :applause: :salute: :king: :cheers: :thumbup: :dwarf:
 
Sorry Jamie but why should Man City get into the UEFA, because of some outrageous bureaucratic decision from UEFA? England have 5 teams in the CL, and as another CL team who should be in there will now have to drop to the UEFA, there has to be an UEFA place available for them to go into - if Man City are put in there's no place.

I'm quite baffled at the selfishness of this decision overall. :roll:
 
What he means is that theres an empty space in the UEFA cup that belongs to an english team. Who else is gonn atake that spot then?
 
I understand the sentiment against allowing Liverpool into the Champs League. But at the same time, the Chicago Bears are utter fly-strewn shite, so that makes the decision easier for me.

And, remember the rules may have been in place, but there are also rules in place that allow for amendments and changes for special circumstances. And this was clearly one of them.
 
RuneEdge said:
What he means is that theres an empty space in the UEFA cup that belongs to an english team. Who else is gonn atake that spot then?
Click to expand...
They've got an extra CL spot, so they lose a UEFA spot to accomodate the poor sods from another league who are being dumped into the UEFA to allow Liverpool into the CL!!!

You think England should also get to keep the UEFA spot? :shock:

Ghazi, rules are rules, you can't do what UEFA have done (change them when it suits, why didn't they do this for the Zaragoza/Madrid case a few years back, answer = money). They have also said today if the same thing happens again then they will take the CL spot from the 4th place team in that league (in this case Everton) - why the hell aren't they doing it this year?

UEFA basically said there will be 4 slots, and it was up to the FA if they wanted to boot Everton to let Liverpool in. The FA said they wouldn't do that, and UEFA caved, despite not doing so when Zaragoza qualifed - they forced Spanish FA to boot them.

I'm away for a lie down before I burst a blood vessel, the ignorance here shouldn't surprise me but it still does (saying England are due another UEFA spot...).

[-( :mrgreen:
 
RuneEdge said:
Yeah. I mean, Liverpool shouldnt even be in the competition yet some fans still complain.
But this means that Liverpool's season start in just weeks.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and what? Lets be frank, the outcome is all bittersweet - other than not giving us the chance to play, this is the worst UEFA could have done.

Making us play 4 practically pointless (the 3rd qualifying round could be interesting tho') games which can have serious implications to our season next year is not what I will call a justified act from UEFA to preserve football's wellbeing.
 
What annoys me is that Champions of Turkey get relegated to the 1st qualifying round. Meaning no Turkish team is guaranteed in the CL group stages.
 
ClassicD said:
Ghazi, rules are rules, you can't do what UEFA have done (change them when it suits, why didn't they do this for the Zaragoza/Madrid case a few years back, answer = money). They have also said today if the same thing happens again then they will take the CL spot from the 4th place team in that league (in this case Everton) - why the hell aren't they doing it this year?
Click to expand...

UEFA told the FA to decide as they had done with the Spanish FA concerning Real Madrid. However, perhaps due to political reasons or whatever, they had just bent down to RM and UEFA and let them through instead of Real Zaragoza.

The problem this time round, and I totally agree with the FA on this, was that the FA weren't as willing to comprimise their rulings to comply with UEFA's. This undoubtedly presented a difficult solution for UEFA hence all these shambles arised.

There are plenty of other loopholes in UEFA rulings and they have just been fortunate that most of them haven't arised. However, I'm guessing that if they were to impose/change a ruling (as with any other ruling organisation), they will need to give some notice to the other FAs (hence most likely why the new ECL winners ruling initiates from next year). I guess a Lawyer will have a better understanding of this though!

I think the real problem will be whether the team (which I presume will drop down to Man City's UEFA cup place) decide to take legal action or not for their demotion.
 
Milanista said:
What annoys me is that Champions of Turkey get relegated to the 1st qualifying round. Meaning no Turkish team is guaranteed in the CL group stages.
Click to expand...

rockykabir said:
I think the real problem will be whether the team (which I presume will drop down to Man City's UEFA cup place) decide to take legal action or not for their demotion.
Click to expand...

It'll be interesting to see what Fenerbahce do next....

EDIT: Taken from Reuters:
Friday's decision is also good news for Fenerbahce, Wisla Krakow, and the teams vying for the Romanian league title.
Because UEFA had always allocated a place in the group stage for the holders, Liverpool's absence opened a slot that will now be filled by Turkish champions Fenerbahce, who originally would have had to play in the third qualifying round.

Polish champions Wisla move up from the second qualifying round to the third, while the Romanian champions -- whose identity will be discovered on Saturday -- move up from the first qualifying round.

Manchester City, who finished eighth in the Premier League, had hoped to take the UEFA Cup slot vacated by Liverpool but UEFA said that would not be the case and no extra club would go into the second-tier competition.
Click to expand...


I'm guessing then that the teams losing out are the Slovakian champions and Man City....
 
Last edited:
Milanista said:
What annoys me is that Champions of Turkey get relegated to the 1st qualifying round. Meaning no Turkish team is guaranteed in the CL group stages.
Click to expand...

Well there you go. Thats a good enough excuse as to why Liverpool shouldnt have been in the competition. Liverpool entering the competition undeservedly is harming the Turkish champions' chances of progressing in the CL.
How would any feel about having to play extra matches just because another team is trying to sneak into the competition?
Who knows. Maybe in the future, teams will start saying "Hey, we won the UEFA Cup last year so we deserve to be in the CL".
UEFA broke the rules once but now teams will bring up the excuse of Liverpool's exception saying that if Liverpool were allowed to, why cant we?
 
RuneEdge said:
Well there you go. Thats a good enough excuse as to why Liverpool shouldnt have been in the competition. Liverpool entering the competition undeservedly is harming the Turkish champions' chances of progressing in the CL.
Click to expand...

I've edited my previous post. Fenerbahce are actually better off with the decision.
 
I am fine with the decision by UEFA to put us in where they have, admittedly its gonna be bloody hard work to win it again next season. We were poor in the league last season and as a result had to wait for UEFA to convene to make a decision. The rules have been bent to allow us back in but what can ya do
 
The game against CSKA is probably the least important so Liverpool are gonna have to ignore that.
 
rockykabir said:
UEFA told the FA to decide as they had done with the Spanish FA concerning Real Madrid. However, perhaps due to political reasons or whatever, they had just bent down to RM and UEFA and let them through instead of Real Zaragoza.
Click to expand...
No, UEFA told the Spanish FA they had 4 spaces for the Champions' League and that was final - they told the Spanish FA if they wanted Real Madrid to take part they would have to remove someone else. It's the federation who nominates their 4 participants, the Spanish FA made the choice to remove Zaragoza and instate Madrid, not UEFA. The English FA didn't have the bottle to make a similar decision, at which point the matter should have been over. But because it's better from a marketing point of view, UEFA are allowing Liverpool in at the expense of a CHAMPION, a sodding CHAMPION of another nation.

It's an embarrassment.
 
Yeah sorry I wasn't clear with my statement. I meant that the Spanish FA bent down to UEFA and RM and let Madrid through instead of Zaragoza.

As you have said, the FA chooses the teams for ECL participation. However, I think that the English FA was right to stand by Everton and say that they should go through instead of comprimising to Liverpool's cause.

The prob was deflected to UEFA and this is what the Spanish FA should have done with the Madrid/Zaragoza a few years back.

Had that been the case (or if UEFA got off their arses and imposed a change to prevent any further cases anyway), the ECL Winners ruling would have been imposed then & we won't have gone through all this crap.

EDIT: For those interested, heres the list of the seeded and unseeded teams in the qualifying rounds:
http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ekassiesa/bert/uefa/seedcl2005.html
 
Last edited:
The bottom line is UEFA have changed the rules at the end of the season, after everyone has played for what they thought were CL places. Because of Liverpool's inclusion, other teams will suffer, which is wrong.

It's great if you're a Liverpool fan of course, if I was I'd be ecstatic, but from a neutral's POV it's smelly.
 
Revan said:
bah... Liverpool ended 5th, the regulations clearly stated that the champion does NOT get an automatic place. what a bunch of crap! UEFA changed the rules as they want. It's unfair to other countries if england do happen to have 5 teams in the CL!
Click to expand...

Liverpool did not create the rules or law.

Shit happens, shit gets complicated, loopholes appear, men in suits have to do something about it.

If your team was in the same situation as Liverpool you wouldn't be so considerable.(don't tell me you would, because you wouldn't.)
 
Last edited:
What would have been great if Chelsea were to be demoted to the UEFA cup for all their scandals. That would have properly sent ripples throughout the football world and eliminate all this tapping up once and for all.

But that would have taken some massive cojones!
 
Last edited:
the rules were a load of bollocks in the first place

first off i'd like to say that if any team won it and failed to qualify through their league then i believe that they should be allowed to defend it

as for the rules, uefa have always allocated a place to the champions except if they come from a country with 4 places (currently england, italy and spain) but they made the provision that if a team won it and failed to qualify then the fa of the country concerned could enter the winners and the 4th placed team would drop down into the uefa cup, this only happened once before with real madrid and then the spanish fa entered them instead of zaragoza (sp?)

uefa were guilty of thinking that this situation would never happen but if it did then they presumed the fa of the winners would would enter them instead of the 4th placed team

the fa as far as i know never made it clear, everton have been saying "it was in the rules at the start of the season" while in fact the rules on the fa's site said the top 4 would qualify but in the event of an english team winning it and finishing outside the top 4 then they COULD request that team enters instead, there was also a press release on the fa's website from last season stating that if chelsea or arsenal won it and finshed outside the top 4 (highly unlikely i know) then they would be entered instead of 4th place (liverpool getting shafted again?)

when the decision was made to enter the 4th placed team the press release from last season was removed and the fa's rules were edited with all mention of them being able to enter the winners instead of 4th place removed, add to that that the decision was made by the professional game board whose members included david dein (arsenal chairman) and phil gartside (bolton) who both had a vested interest in the decision

as far as i'm concerned the fa have used liverpool as a pawn in a political game with uefa to get an extra place which stinks, they didn't have the bottle to drop everton to the uefa cup which they should have done, i understand that everton worked hard last season and they deserved 4th more than we did but we WON THE EUROPEAN CUP ffs! and nobody can tell me that finishing 4th is a bigger achievement than being champions of europe, to be honest only league champions and the holders should be entered anyway and non of this 2nd, 3rd and 4th placed qualifying bollocks

at least now uefa's hand has been forced and the rules changed
 
well the premier league are now saying on there website they are going to appeal agaist our lost UEFA spot, theres still hope yet......!
 
Last edited:
fishcake said:
at least now uefa's hand has been forced and the rules changed
Click to expand...

They haven't though, they said that if the same thing happens next year the FA of that country will have to decide if the 4th placed team or the CL winners, who finished outside of the CL spots, will be nominated for inclusion. Which is exactly what the case was when Zaragoza were dumped, and should have been the case this year as well but for some bizarre reason, UEFA have caved and let Liverpool in.

Sorry Jamie but this is arrogance beyond belief for me. Firstly, the FA refuse to do what they should have and decide themselves about Everton OR Liverpool, and instead bleat to UEFA about how they should have 5 spots, and now they want the UEFA cup spot as well. Is it just me that sees the fact they have an extra spot in one comp means that has to be balanced out? Liverpool would have been in the UEFA Cup, but they've been moved up into the CL and someone else will have to be moved down from the CL, so there is no extra spot!
 
Last edited:
ClassicD said:
They haven't though, they said that if the same thing happens next year the FA of that country will have to decide if the 4th placed team or the CL winners, who finished outside of the CL spots, will be nominated for inclusion. Which is exactly what the case was when Zaragoza were dumped, and should have been the case this year as well but for some bizarre reason, UEFA have caved and let Liverpool in.
Click to expand...

read on several sites that from next season the winners are entered automatically no matter where they finish in their league, which is how it should be

from here
From next season the holders will gain an automatic place in the competition, at the expense of the side in the final domestic qualification spot.
Click to expand...
 
ClassicD said:
Liverpool would have been in the UEFA Cup, but they've been moved up into the CL and someone else will have to be moved down from the CL, so there is no extra spot!
Click to expand...

No team has been moved down from the CL to the Uefa cup with this reshuffle so the spot is still open!
 
I hope Liverpool fail to get passed the qualification rounds, it's rediculous UEFA can just change the rules whenever they want.
 
I wouldn't worry about the top 4 losing out on money, I can't see Everton making it past the qualifiers. Everton in 3rd qualifying round please!
 
jamie_mack said:
No team has been moved down from the CL to the Uefa cup with this reshuffle so the spot is still open!
Click to expand...
Of course someone will be moved down, or else there would be an odd number of teams in the CL (as Liverpool are an 'extra'). One of the lower-ranked nations like Slovakia or Andorra, will have their champions put into the UEFA Cup.

Fishcake, apologies, you are correct on the future ruling.
 
How come we dont know who the unfortunate team is yet?
The CL starts in a bit so if anyone was gonna move down to the UEFA Cup, shouldnt we have known who it was by now?
 
ClassicD said:
Of course someone will be moved down, or else there would be an odd number of teams in the CL (as Liverpool are an 'extra'). One of the lower-ranked nations like Slovakia or Andorra, will have their champions put into the UEFA Cup.

Fishcake, apologies, you are correct on the future ruling.
Click to expand...

no team has been moved down, the slot liverpool have been given is reserved for the title holders anyway, the rule that has been "broken" is the one that states no country may enter more than 4 teams, if the winners came from any country apart from england, italy and spain then they would automatically be entered no matter where they finished in their league, so for instance if bayern munich won it but finished 4th behind leverkusen, stuttgart and werder bremen all 4 teams would be entered and it wouldn't affect any other team in the competition, in fact the only team it affects is fenerbache who now go straight into the group stage instead of having to qualify and liverpool start at the bottom

i can understand why you're pissed off about it, the fa have played political games with uefa, probably knowing full well that they would back down and give england a 5th place which is wrong in my opinion

uefa had the chance to change the rules when the same situation arose with madrid and zaragoza, the spanish fa saw sence and entered madrid so uefa probably thought that any other association would do the same thing

as far as i'm concerned everton should have been dropped to the uefa cup, it's nothing personal but finishing 4th in the league over 30 points behind the winners isn't a bigger achievement than winning the european cup
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom