Konami is sinking

[juce]

There is a decent competition in terms of sales: Fifa by EA...
And the irony hints?????
Well, as much as i like this forum, most users think that they need to have a specific profile to be accepted on this forum.
The profile (note the irony again):

1 being a PES god or still better WE god (doing the treble in Ml after two seasons, some real aces claim to have achieved the treble after one season, they are fantastic WE/PES player but not the brightest kids in town).
2 having played the games on PSX (or the platform before PSX, can't remember what that was)even if they are 13 years old.
3 preferring WE by far above PES (PES is for sissies)
4 preferring multi-player above single player (single player is for sissies)
5 claiming not to be a fan boy.
6 hating EA and every single game EA has produced although playing NBA Street and SSX in the closet.

There are people around who are genuinely like that, but not half as much as the number who claim to be....i like to make fun of them...not to be offensive, but to amuse myself.
But of course i am a sissie, i never played a WE/PES/ISS game before the PS2, i never played a WE game, never played online and succeded only once to win the treble in the ML. I only once played against a human opponent, but i won, so i have a 100% score!!!!

by competition, i meant a football game with good enough gameplay to lure a significant number of buyers away from Konami to make an impact on their sales. I seriously doubt there are many users that switched from PES to FIFA, but i could be wrong...

as for the profile, i think you're exaggerating a lot. perhaps you're right, and there are many users here that are like that, it's hard to prove or disprove. However, judging from personal experience, there are enough people here that don't fit the profile at all. I also have a suspicion that those who do fit, don't bother to read long posts like yours anyway.

 

[drekkard]

Yesterday i tried to give this game the last chance in single player. It was wasted. When CPU decided I was playing too well, just made my passes go at 1 mph, players miscontrolled every now and then, they were all tired, easy shots went inches wide (that's one of the worst cheats of the game, deciding what's going in and what's going out), cpu headed everything even if I had a better position / player / pace or simply my player wouldn't jump at all to let the cpu head the ball, if I ran against an opponent with the ball my player would fall to the ground but the opponent would go on as if nothing happened, cpu would steal the ball FROM behind (something we simple mortals CAN'T DO in this game) and crap that. And of course, in the last minute a cpu player with pathetic stats could literally WALK THROUGH puyol and thuram (zambrotta conveniently and automatically ran away of the ball so the cpu player could run straight to the keeper) and shoot a pathetic shot that my keeper was unable to block, of couse, and the ball went straight to the feet of the striker to score.

Look, even supercancel (R1+R2)is shit in the last editions. And that was the best movement of all, you could run and walk free with it. Now it freezes your player and most of the times it's uneffective. So sad.

The thing is that they have succeeded in his vision: balance the gameplay. That means the CPU will adapt to you level. If you ara crap, CPU won't score a lot of goals against you, but if you are very good, you can't score more than 3 or 4 in a game, they don't want to. That's why good players always have a ratio of about 12:1 shots attempted / goals, because CPU manages to put things away.

They had a lot of success with this vision until pes4. But now this vision is totally outdated. If I play barcelona against arabia saudi, the most likely result will be 4 or 5 -0 and more importantly, my players won't feel terribly tired or turn into muppets at midgame. Barceloan players will be for 90 minutes like superman compared to the saudi players. But the game doesn't allow this things. It's meant to balance every match and because they have put cheats to the limit (a disguisting limit) they once started to mess and interfere with control and your player stats.All because of the balance. Now I think they should begin to aim for simulation, and let freedom of gameplay again in all senses (control, tactic, gameplay, ml structure, number of teams...). And the good thing is: it's not that difficult, we know they CAN do it. Simply they doesn't want to. They sell enough by now.

So I firmly reaffirm what I said. Gameplay wise, konami is sinking with this series. Do you really think improving ML significantly takes more time than puttnig dog faces, beach balls and watermellons in it?

 

[coke_dude]

maybe you want to try to play multiplayer? because thats where all the fun is?

anyhow "passes go at 1 mph","tired","easy shots went wide"
doesnt that add the spice in things?
If every shot you made gets into the goal Im sure we will be discussing how easy the game is right now instead of "konami is sinking" thread.

Im not self claiming Im a good player but everything you mention that the cpu does, Im sure I did that to my friends before and vice verca. I may sound like a fanboy but tbh I tried every football game available, nothing can beat WE so far so unless you found a good alternative, deal with it.

 

[Nick Cave]

maybe you want to try to play multiplayer? because thats where all the fun is?

anyhow "passes go at 1 mph","tired","easy shots went wide"
doesnt that add the spice in things?
If every shot you made gets into the goal Im sure we will be discussing how easy the game is right now instead of "konami is sinking" thread.

Im not self claiming Im a good player but everything you mention that the cpu does, Im sure I did that to my friends before and vice verca. I may sound like a fanboy but tbh I tried every football game available, nothing can beat WE so far so unless you found a good alternative, deal with it.

Spice things up, it's a football Sim or that's what it's sold as, so it should simulate football.
I think everyone who plays the title can empathize with what he's saying, I would imaging most people will play the title in single player mode and judge the title on that. People come into a forum to discuss WE and PES for good or bad "deal with it" as you put it!

 

[drekkard]

maybe you want to try to play multiplayer? because thats where all the fun is?

anyhow "passes go at 1 mph","tired","easy shots went wide"
doesnt that add the spice in things?
If every shot you made gets into the goal Im sure we will be discussing how easy the game is right now instead of "konami is sinking" thread.

Im not self claiming Im a good player but everything you mention that the cpu does, Im sure I did that to my friends before and vice verca. I may sound like a fanboy but tbh I tried every football game available, nothing can beat WE so far so unless you found a good alternative, deal with it.

Playing with Xavi, Deco, Ronaldinho and company, all of them with incredible passing abbilities and very good stamina, and watching your team moving the ball soooo slow just in the midle of the second half is a joke. Specially when, in front, you have far inferior players of Cadiz who seem to be better in allaspects of the game. You haven't understood anything. It's not a matter of results, nor a matter of spice things, I simply call for a fair single player experience, where I can decide the tempo of the match if I'm better than the AI and not be cheated like that, because it simply puts all the fun away.

And of course, I play multiplayer a lot with friends and I know it's gorgeous and funny (mainly because of friends, not the game, you see?) but you don't have 4 friends and cokes at home so often.

About shooting: something must be done. When I talk about easy sitters going inches wide I want to stress the fact that the CPU decides if it goes in or not, NOT the skill of the player. Because we only have 8 DIRECTIONS. So, if I shoot to a side of the goal, I just can't decide if it goes inches in or inches wide. And it's fustrating when you're 1 on 1 with the keeper, you aim to the side, and it ignores you shooting to the keeper. Most of the times you simply have no control to where you're aiming. So, breaking the 8 directions is a must for this series. Then, we would see shots horribly wide or perfectly aimed because of skill of the player, not the CPU calculating infamuos parameters.

 

[Stan]

I don't see these flaws, well at least not as much as you.
Of course there is another possibility.
Maybe you're simply not good enough...(oops, now he's gonna be mad...)

 

[Chris Davies]

As much as I love the game, I feel like I can't come into this thread and defend it (although that was the original plan) because I know that in the days of ISS PE2 on the PSone, through to Winning Eleven 7 (God knows which PES that was), I would play it at least once or twice a week. I'd fantasise about getting home early from school, college etc. to play it. I'd even throw the odd sickie to get to play it. WE8 I'd play once a week for a few months, then not at all for three months, then when WE9 was announced I'd play it once a week again. Since the release of WE10, and it honestly hurts me to admit this - I haven't played it full stop for pretty much six months.

Where I work (and have worked there now for three months), we have a PS2 that we can use for an hour at lunchtime, and every day I take Pro Evo 5 to work. I've played it three times. Three times in three months - that is probably an accurate ratio of how often I've played it since the release date.

Maybe I'm being brutal, but not enough has changed to make me excited about playing it. At least once a day when I'm at work I'll think "I'm going home to Football Manager tonight, do I give that lazy-arse a contract or what - surely someone would pay a few million for him, his stats are high enough". Never do I think "lunchtime, Pro Evo, that'll be a laugh". Don't get me wrong, it is a laugh, and I'm not saying it's a piss-poor game. I can never see any other football game overtaking Pro Evo in the playability stakes (which is a shame because all of the other football games seem to have ten times as many teams and twice the modes). But every time I sit down to Pro Evo 5 I just think... "I've done this all before". We've all won the World Cup, the Master League, the whatever. We did before the millennium for God's sake.

I'll always buy the game every year, because I know there will always be the odd day where I wake up just in the mood for it (usually after having some dream of playing at the new Wembley, or playtesting Pro Evo 2024). Plus, I do believe that one day, the game will change and have something genuinely new, and they'll need money to fund the new producers who come up with these ideas (well I say ideas, although when all the other games have come up with them already I'm not so sure if you can call them that). I'm happy for my money to go with Konami, for all the laughs they've given me for the last ten years they deserve it, in my personal opinion. So no, I don't think Konami are sinking, I think they're just operating like a business. Which is to be expected, really.

One day, new guys will join the WE development team and add a lot more content. One day, a developer will create a football game with similar gameplay, but all of the features we've been waiting for. As for which will come first, I've no idea. Will it even happen in my lifetime? I hope so, but you can't be sure, can you? It seems very strange that SWOS had more appropriate management features than a game that's over ten years older than it. In the meantime, I'm just happy that Football Manager exists. If it wasn't for that game, honestly, I wouldn't be a gamer any more, bar the occasional stint of a new first-person-shooter or something. Even the XBOX 360 hasn't been played on for something like three months. But that's another story.

Sorry for boring you all to death and probably putting the kiss of death on this thread... And all this has been said before anyway. But that's my two pence.

 

[coke_dude]

About shooting: something must be done. When I talk about easy sitters going inches wide I want to stress the fact that the CPU decides if it goes in or not, NOT the skill of the player. Because we only have 8 DIRECTIONS. So, if I shoot to a side of the goal, I just can't decide if it goes inches in or inches wide. And it's fustrating when you're 1 on 1 with the keeper, you aim to the side, and it ignores you shooting to the keeper. Most of the times you simply have no control to where you're aiming. So, breaking the 8 directions is a must for this series. Then, we would see shots horribly wide or perfectly aimed because of skill of the player, not the CPU calculating infamuos parameters.

Its like what Nick Cave said

it's a football Sim or that's what it's sold as, so it should simulate football.

I play football as much as I play WE/ProEvo, well not as much but you know what I mean . Although Im not very good at both,I do realise that in real football, its not just where you kick the ball to it also depends on which part of the ball you kick, the distance between u and the ball, your stamina when u kick it etc.. have you ever try to kick a ball after a 30m dash?

The same thing actually happens in the game. players got tired.. 8 directions the pad gave you is just the basic kick, Im sure if you judge the distance of the ball from your player you'll get better a better shot.

I know plenty of people who play this game and some of them (not all) do realise that there is more in it than just point and shoot which what FIFA offers. Give it a try, Im sure you get to enjoy it more. The way I play it , since its a simulation to begin with,is to try to simulate playing real football.

Sorry Jack Bauer your post was too long I didnt read it

 

[Stan]

A beautiful post Jack.
I think you have relived this thread.
I also play Football Manager and i quite like it, but i'm not as addicted as with PES.
First of all i have to admit that with Football Manager the immersion is much deeper than with PES, even with the PSP version (which i like quite a lot). If there is one thing that bothers me, it is that with Football Manager i have to be passive during the matches. I know this is logic because Football Manager is about being a manger and usually managers are passive during matches. During a match, a beautiful move is created by the players and not by the manager and that is a pity for a perfect game (maybe the best game on all platforms). But somehow i like PES more for all it's apparent flaws...
Of course a combination betweem both games would be awesome, but i think almost everybody here would agree so i will not elaborate...
Why do i prefer PES?? I prefer PES because i like football immensely... I've always liked football but somehow around 1996 i became bored by it...That is until i discovered PES and once again i watched football matches. I enjoy football in a very different way now...i'm not a real fan anymore...but i like football as an artistic or creative game...
While playing PES i want to play good, attractive football and score great goals ( and to be honest most of my goals are pretty common ones). The reason why i can't get enough of it is the feeling i have after having scored a good goal or having performed a good collctive move...which i do once in a while (and that "once in a while" makes it addictive i think)
In the end the result does not matter although i only play ML, maybe also to "discover" new players....In PES5 i played a ML with Palermo and discovered Grosso who six months later turned out to be one of the revelations of the world cup.
Anyway, these are the reasons why i can't get enough of this game...

 

[Chris Davies]

Thanks Stan, I appreciate that (every time I write on here now I think of how much I'd love to be involved in journalism like yourself, I take great joy in writing something, even knowing that it's too long for 90% of people to read).

Of course, I agree that it is frustrating not being able to be a player on the pitch in Football Manager, for the same reasons that it's fantastic to play Pro Evolution Soccer - you see so much realism topped with so many joyous moves that your players pull off, not to mention the goals, and you want to "do that yourself". And PES does allow you to do the moves and the glorious goals that Football Manager allows it's virtual-players to do. But the reason myself and lots of other players keep coming back to Football Manager is that every time you start a new game, it's different - one of the big reasons why being that you can change jobs, and shift the football world as you know it entirely. If I could add one feature to the next PES, it would be that.

Now in PES, they've programmed into the game that different teams have set styles of play, i.e. Arsenal counter-attack themselves to death and the South American teams ping the ball around a lot (and do a few more tricks), frustrating you no end. I love this. It's the same in Football Manager. But in Football Manager you get to experience a lot more of it, and you get to experience different forms of it YOURSELF rather than just playing against it.

In PES, if I go Arsenal, then I know it will benefit me to play counter-attacking football because my players are some of the best counter-attacking footballers around, and you play against the rest of the English teams (unless you make a custom league and fill it with random teams, which I don't because I aim for realism in everything I play). So there I am, playing counter-attacking football against teams who all play in a pretty similar way. For twenty seasons. Until the end.

In Football Manager, if I go Arsenal (which I never have, I have always started the game with a team at least two divisions lower than the top league in the country, something else that would delight me beyond belief if Konami could get themselves to add - it only costs a few extra researchers, they can fake the names up all they like)... I have counter-attacking players, so I play a counter-attacking style, and don't do too badly. At first it's a learning curve, being a big club and dealing with big-name, tempramental prima-donnas (something else that you're not challenged with in PES), but I do reasonably well. Then, I get a job offer from another country - France, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, wherever. So I consider if I've achieved enough, then accept it. Now, everything is different, and it's a LOT harder. I have to research the way my new team plays, as well as the way that the rest of the division plays. I can't just use my old tactics any more, not even my old formation. In this division, the general stats of the players are higher in areas where, in the English Premiership, they are generally poor. You even have to do new training regimes. And hire staff that know the country better (which is even more important in FM2007 - scouts now have knowledge on specific countries, they have a rating out of a hundred, so it's even more important that you make the right hiring and firing choices from day one).

Look at the difference in size between those last two paragraphs. If that first paragraph of gameplay keeps me entertained for six months, the second one would keep me entertained for a year. Not a little bit of a difference, a LOT. And that's excluding the challenge of working your way up more than one, eight-team division, which would be easy enough to add if they just put their hand in their pocket for extra researchers and data inputters (I realise businesses don't like to spend, but firstly it would increase the sales of their product a LOT and secondly researchers and inputters are two-a-penny compared to the other departments they have). If they added one simple thing, or paid out a tiny bit more and added the job changing AND the lower leagues for each country, the game would last people until PES10, in the same way that the leagues and cups from PES1 have kept the majority of us buying the game until PES5.

Incidentally, I know the feeling of "discovering" someone - it was in FM2006 with me, however... I saw Tamas Priskin playing in the Premiership for Watford yesterday, having bought him for my Mansfield side (now in the Premiership after six long seasons) two years ago. He came, he scored 20 goals in 20 games, and then he decided he wanted to leave to "further his ambitions". From then on I've always labelled him a Judas, as I hope the virtual Mansfield fans have as well (there's a new feature I'd like, a section in the "Club Information" under "Favourite Players" called "Disliked Players").

Ah, it's a beautiful game.

 

[drekkard]

Its like what Nick Cave said
I play football as much as I play WE/ProEvo, well not as much but you know what I mean . Although Im not very good at both,I do realise that in real football, its not just where you kick the ball to it also depends on which part of the ball you kick, the distance between u and the ball, your stamina when u kick it etc.. have you ever try to kick a ball after a 30m dash?

The same thing actually happens in the game. players got tired.. 8 directions the pad gave you is just the basic kick, Im sure if you judge the distance of the ball from your player you'll get better a better shot.

I know plenty of people who play this game and some of them (not all) do realise that there is more in it than just point and shoot which what FIFA offers. Give it a try, Im sure you get to enjoy it more. The way I play it , since its a simulation to begin with,is to try to simulate playing real football.

I think you didn't read or understood my points, friend. What I am saying is that the single player dos NOT simulate things fairly, simply CHEATS to try to balance the gameplay. And there's a huge difference. I've played football myself, and when young, I played in Barcelona, so I know perfectly the difficulty of translating real life football to a computer and the huge ammount of parameters involved in everything.

My points are NOT oriented to explain the strings of shooting. Read carefully my posts and explain me why my team is always more tired than any other team at the end of a match (even though I only dash when it's necessary and my players have 90 stamina), or why my players can't push an opponent from behind while the cpu effectively can, or why any cross is headed by my opponents and my defender just won't jump for misterious reasons. All that kind of things you don't have in multiplayer, of course.

And what I try to say is that the single player experience is getting poor, because it's the exact same cheats every year, only worse because they started to interfere with controls and so (I've seen too many times my player just stopping or changing direction automatically to NOT grab the ball when moving from an opponent to another, but when the ball has passed, then it continues to move towards the ball. That is simply nasty and pathetic).

(About what you said of shooting, why is that the cpu can score in the last minute with a piss tired player who is shooting facing the own goal and simply breaking his hip to shoot from 15 meters just in the corner of the net? If I did that the ball would go to alaska. What kind of simulation will explain this? That's why the CPU has an effectiveness of about 50% against me. As they shoot only twice per game, they tend to score almost every other time they shoot. I hate to see that "scripts" coming into play. Once I even calculated the speed of an opponent player who chased etoo in the start of a breakaway, and it was something around 145)

So, understand that I'm not discussing about parameters of things, but of FAIRNESS in the simulation, that the game is blatantly lacking. And of course, as the game is trying to BALANCE things, the better you are the harder the cheats (how come a defender of speed 72 can overrun Etoo in the first minutes of play in a long through pass??), so if you say you don't see any of that maybe is because you're not so good. Ah, and it doesn't matter regarding the final result, I can win anything every season. But I don't play for results, I play for gameplay, and probably more than half the match can be thrown to the bin because of cheats not letting me play the way I would.

 

[Unevilized]

if the computer cheats, then players can cheat too, because the CPU doesn't use like a magic button to score goals, it only uses square, x, triangle, circle and that's it, so its not possible for the cpu to cheat…

What I think is that people don't want to admit that the cpu is actually good! and i have to admit that sometimes i get owned by the cpu, and i don't like it, i think seebass have successfully improved the AI in the game where its not possible to beat it like 5 time in a raw like it used to happen in we7/we6

 

[Nick Cave]

if the computer cheats, then players can cheat too, because the CPU doesn't use like a magic button to score goals, it only uses square, x, triangle, circle and that's it, so its not possible for the cpu to cheat…

What I think is that people don't want to admit that the cpu is actually good! and i have to admit that sometimes i get owned by the cpu, and i don't like it, i think seebass have successfully improved the AI in the game where its not possible to beat it like 5 time in a raw like it used to happen in we7/we6

Errr buy the game and play it... and since when does the CPU use a joy pad.... :lol: Nobody is saying "cheat" as that would imply a human trait to a piece of programming...
If you read through the forum you would see people are pointing out things that are used by the programme that are annoying and in some cases plain stupid and wrong. And the first post was talking of Konami's lack of progress of the title and the fact they are putting very little into each new release... please god don't go down the cheat road again. We are simply pointing out "scripted" faults if you like with the game....

 

[Zonekill]

I agree with you dekkard that it feels scripted sometimes to balance scoreline/gameplay. Some of the magic feel of PES has been lost a little bit. But against a friend its on top of all soccer games!

 

[Necridhaha]

I fear I just gotta agree with the first post. I'm still playing PES5 alot but the cheating makes me sick!

Ofcourse I will buy PES6 though...

 

[bulldrig]

yeah, yeah - nothing new here. Havent even tried we9 and 10 to be honest. Just read the sentiments shared here on the boards - it told enough. Again, they've just grown too big.

 

[winston]

easy shots went inches wide (that's one of the worst cheats of the game, deciding what's going in and what's going out)

Here's one thing I've noticed a few times with WE10 that really depressed me.

I've long been aware of the games cheating tactic of making you miss even the simplest tap-in if the game's in that mode where it doesn't want you to score.

So, where possible, I'd taken to just running the ball into the open goal without pressing shoot at all. There's nothing they can do to stop you scoring then.....so I thought. What in fact happens sometimes is that when you are trying to run onto the loose ball which is lying right in front of goal is that, even with super-cancel, your player will sometimes just refuse to run in the direction you are aiming but instead, run in an arc around the ball, thus ensuring you do not collect the ball and walk it into the open goal.

In terms of gameplay, this is truly dire. It is the biggest sin of all...pure script, pure cheat!

No matter about their policy of releasing 3 versions per year, no matter how it compares to FIFA, no matter that it "adds to the spice", no matter whether you practise 10 hours a day or 1 hour a year, this sort of thing is risible and unforgivable.

I accept that on 6*, the cpu team will be given stat boost, how else would 6* work? I'm less happy that on 6*, the refs are 100% biased in favour of cpu team (they are 99% in favour of cpu team even on 1* anyway). I'm certainly not happy with the way that during some matches, all your players suddenly lose the ability to run, pass, do anything until such time as the cpu has scored it's goal, and only then does it allow you to play again. But simnply ignoring your input on the controller and scripting things so that you cannot play, that is, and always will be, dross.

The biggest problem I have with the way the game has developed is that there is far too much emphasis in the underlying AI of having the match play out the way they've "scripted" it. Even on multi-player, there is a clear "scripted pattern of play", with periods of play, or entire matches, where one team can play freely and one is perpetually battling. They try do things like trying to simulate being the away team by making them play a lot worse than normal (using stat reduction, ref bias, etc) but it's overdone to the point where it makes the game virtually unplayable at times.

I used to love this series, but like some others here, I barely play it at all now. I just grew sick of the endless cpu interference, the whole scripted feel.

The game stirs up the wrong emotions now....those of frustration, anger, dismay. Long gone are the days of feeling excitement, amazement or joyful. I wonder if they can ever recapture that...

 

[andrey_shevchenko]

You guys suck! If it werent because of seabass right now u guys would be playing fifa. He has showed he always do the right moves to make the game, better what are u guys expecting human players on the field? Please1

 

[Blanco]

I'm certainly not happy with the way that during some matches, all your players suddenly lose the ability to run, pass, do anything until such time as the cpu has scored it's goal, and only then does it allow you to play again. But simnply ignoring your input on the controller and scripting things so that you cannot play, that is, and always will be, dross.

Sometimes it's unbelievable what kind of tricks the CPU uses to cheat you.
I really saw players running and shooting through me, falling to the ground without any contact, 1 chance, 1 goal, etc... you can almost predict the CPU goals.
PES5 was the most frustrating game I ever played and it seems that PES6 is'nt going to be better.
90% of the fouls are pure unsportsmanlike play, ok you get a freekick, but they put you in a situation where you can't even pass to a teammate, because they simple stand behind thier defenders. ( you can't move your teammates anyway)
When your match ends in a penalty shootout and you had more shot on goal then CPU, be sure the CPU will miss at least 1 penalty. If you miss one, the CPU will miss the next one, but only if you were the better during the match. Really, 90% of the time I can predict a CPU goal.
Catching a penalty is a big laugh, sometimes when I push down left he jumps to right and so on. It looks like even that is controled by the CPU.

You guys suck! If it werent because of seabass right now u guys would be playing fifa. He has showed he always do the right moves to make the game, better what are u guys expecting human players on the field? Please1

Offcourse not. But I expect a minimum of CPU cheating, that's all I ask.
They promise freedom in gameplay, but the game got more scripted every year. Tell me, why do we still need supercancel?

 

[Nick Cave]

You guys suck! If it werent because of seabass right now u guys would be playing fifa. He has showed he always do the right moves to make the game, better what are u guys expecting human players on the field? Please1

:shock: God.. thanks for that andrey_shevchenko.. it all makes sense to me now!!
And if I didn't have a PC I'd be staring into the corner of my desk right now tapping away on it like an idiot?

 

[Dar]

what if you didn't have a desk either? Or a chair to sit on?

I feel this could go on...

Back to the caves people!

 

[Blanco]

About shooting: something must be done. When I talk about easy sitters going inches wide I want to stress the fact that the CPU decides if it goes in or not, NOT the skill of the player. Because we only have 8 DIRECTIONS. So, if I shoot to a side of the goal, I just can't decide if it goes inches in or inches wide. And it's fustrating when you're 1 on 1 with the keeper, you aim to the side, and it ignores you shooting to the keeper. Most of the times you simply have no control to where you're aiming. So, breaking the 8 directions is a must for this series. Then, we would see shots horribly wide or perfectly aimed because of skill of the player, not the CPU calculating infamuos parameters.

Exactly, same goes for penalties, shooting & keeping.
I have seen a keeper dive to the right, while I was pushing the direction to the left. If the CPU need that goal, he will get it.
Japanese like RPG and rolling the dice.
But they spit on the dice so it will stick on the side the CPU wants.
Actually, the best footbalgame I ever played was the PES5 DEMO.

 

[PetrovLFC]

The game is dying. We need the next gen version to breath life into the series. And the really, 'TRUE' next-gen version, is a long time coming I'm afraid.

Fifa is catching up gameplay wise, and the 07 next gen will give Konami a shock (gameplay wise) we all know EA will make the more dosh.

 

[Blanco]

Fifa catching up?
I've played the 07 demo and even the elastic ball physics are still there,
Imo Fifa is still miles away gameplay wise.

Everybody is waiting for that next gen PES, but wahta offers nextgen PES gameplay wise?
I know it will have better graphics, but I really don't care about that. I'm an old skool gamer and I've seen where we are coming from (ugly sprites & bobs)
For me stunning graphics are cool for one week, my mouth falls open only one time, after that all that counts is gameplay, gameplay and again gameplay.
.