JustPES - All your PES/WE tactical discussions

Prof, just press X for "clear all" in the team management screen.

Sorry to quote my own post, but hate it being stuck on the bottom of last page after I put quite a bit of time into it. It should also benefit people who like to set accurate tactics.

ollywolly said:
Been playing around with Stoke in Coach mode to get the AI to play like real life. There's a crazy statistic that in something like 85 Premier League games, Stoke have never had the majority of possession.

My initial suggestions for Stoke or any long ball team is to set their main tactics as all out attack. Typical Konami, something always gets lost in translation. With this tactic set, the AI will play a lot of long aerial balls. So assign this tactic to each of the 4 buttons, because these are what the AI uses. You could also set it in team management screen.

Other important values.
Support range - should be 20, so players play far away from each other, meaning more long balls.
Player support - should be low or medium to make sure not too many players bomb forward.
Position switch - one of the 'never' values
Pressing - should be tight, Stoke are quite aggressive
Defensive line - deep, creating more space between def and att, meaning more long balls

Not too sure on what compactness and attacking style suits Stoke best yet.
Formation should be standard 442 with attackers high up and players spread out as much as possible.
Also make sure to set dangerous defenders like Huth and Shawcross to attack at set pieces, as this is one of Stoke's main weapons.

A minor disappointment I came across is that you can't set throw in takers for the CPU. Its always the wide men taking them and even though they will launch long throws, it would be so much better if you could set Delap to take them.

Anyway these tactics are not definitive and any feedback for things to tweak is much appreciated. I think all out attack is the key however, it certainly leads to less passing and more hoofing. 'ave it! *

*(you may need to be english to understand hoofing and 'ave it!)
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Not sure for this version. In PES5 tactics would often be overwritten, though there was a way to code them into the EXE. Think Klash said that the COM kept his edited tactics and only changed players, hope so.
 
I was beaten 3-1 by stoke in my ML. the key for them is to change the formation so it's VERY deep and put the two strikers very high upfiled. They become VERY HARD to break down! They then naturally play a lot of long balls! What i've noticed they don't always go for air balls up field just long passes up field!

Also your going to have to do some player tweaking in giving 'Pinpoint pass' to these players.

Shawcross
Danny Collins
Mark Wilson
Wilkinson
Whitehead and
Whelan

Pinpoint pass gives the player the ability to sit deep and play long balls!

I'll post their formation in a bit, but it's essential just moving the back four as far back as possible and moving the two strikers as far forward as possible :)

I wouldn't give them all out attack!
 
All out attack isn't really all out attack though, it really is more like long ball.
If you get them playing long balls along the ground, I think you have them set as long ball tactic in game, which I think is actually counter-attack translated into what you will see the AI do.
Quick counter is more like pressure. Just typical bad Konami translation I think.

just try stoke on all out attack and watch the magic unfold
 
Your formation doesn't actually change in AOA does it? Just certain players running forward more? Because when i go into the gameplan screen (when i'm on AOA) it still shows my original formation.
 
Just want to note that the AI definitely does seem to change tactics (or at least formations) to match the game and available players, and it goes a fair bit deeper than just switching positions.

I've mostly been playing in BAL mode, which ought to be a good comparison for ML since transfers are available and fairly common. When my AMF joined Valenciennes, they were playing a standard 4-1-4-1 with central midfielders rather than an attacking midfield band, which I assume is how their base tactics are set up. Eventually, I impressed the manager enough that we went to something closer to a Christmas tree with two AMFs. We played that way for most of two seasons, until Kadir left the team. The rookie brought into the second AMF slot apparently didn't impress, but we also got Diaby to play as a secondary holding midfielder, so it's been 4-2-3-1 since. The tactics change pretty infrequently - it's pretty much all 'long ball' counter-attack, with the occasional move to 'balanced'... but the formation changes have been pretty interesting.

So while I think this is an awesome initiative, I do tend to wonder if any changes made can possibly stick outside of exhibition matches and the like.
 
ollywolly said:
All out attack isn't really all out attack though, it really is more like long ball.
If you get them playing long balls along the ground, I think you have them set as long ball tactic in game, which I think is actually counter-attack translated into what you will see the AI do.
Quick counter is more like pressure. Just typical bad Konami translation I think.

just try stoke on all out attack and watch the magic unfold
Click to expand...

Yes, the only tactic which is explained well is CB overlap which just triggers your centre back to run forward ans upportt he attack!

The rest.

Possession (OFF) = Attacking with quick passing (on the ground)!
Possesion (DEF) = Consering possesion, slow attackck dominating possession!
Long Ball = Attack as fast as possible
Quick Counter = Sit back and count
Swap Wings = At first i thought your two wide men swapped but apparently it just makes your wide players hug the touchline more :CONFUSE:
 
klashman69 said:
Swap Wings = At first i thought your two wide men swapped but apparently it just makes your wide players hug the touchline more :CONFUSE:
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I always thought it made your players attack down the opposite side of the pitch to where you've got the ball. So you can swap wings by playing a long pass across the pitch. Might be totally wrong.
 
I find the animations much better for understanding a tactic than reading the explanations. You cant really lose anything in translation with an animation.

My understanding is that swap wings makes the opposite winger stay wide so you have an option to switch play with a cross field ball.

It's also from looking at the animation that I think All out attack is in actual fact long ball. The animation shows a CB pump the ball up to a striker, missing out the midfield entirely, and it does play out this way on the pitch.
 
First of all Bluechamp project is a wonderful thing and worth continuing. Owning real tactics for each team to Premierleague would be something fantastic. Patiently waiting also for some advices for me and my Arsenal team.

Anyway, Klashman.
You wrote that you have changed tactics for all teams in the Premierleague. Do you just shut down the Management tactic or you have done individually changes for each of them?

As far as tactics for the Stoke is a bit confused... who to listen to you guys:)

Also when it comes to Barcelona. Setting Klashman and Bluchamp slightly different from each other, and here too I'm confused.

Great job guys, I look forward to more posts
 
Thanks guys for bringing this into focus...

after messing around with the tactics for a while, i found that actually:

Counter attack - is actually a high pressing game
Long ball - as someone said is actually counter attack
Def Possession - is actually dropping back and parking the team bus

Now the interesting one: All out Attack

Olly is right -- i tried all out attack and its actually the Long Ball tactic, I applied it as a secondary tactic for sunderland and my whole defensive backline still kept its shape, albeit pushing up a bit further up the pitch than usual.

Guys, lets keep this going... this game has serious potential, we just need to tweek the default tactics!!
 
thanks, and whatever happened to the Justpes project?? The last post was on the 25th October...

Anyway, could anyone confirm if 'player support' actually control the attack build-up speed? maybe bluechampion just happened to have the 'long ball' tactic in effect when setting 'player support' high?
 
I do agree that player support is pretty much just as JustPes says, controlling the attack build up speed when in possession. I think a maximum of 12 for a human team is about right, otherwise you have far too many offside runs and are far too vulnerable on counter attacks with many players going forward.

As for AI teams having a maximum of 12 in 'Player Support' and 'Pressing', I am doing some global testing with Wild's great new editor.

Player Support -20% (brings teams to a maximum of ~12)
Pressing - 20% (brings teams to a maximum of ~12)

After about eight 40 minutes matches, I find with this the play looks realistic, but it may possibly hamper the AI's ability to challenge the player. More testing is required.
 
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Since the last few days I test to change the settings of my Arsenal.
According to what you suggest here my setting Style Team

player suport 10
Support range 6
Pos. Switch 18
Attacking style 15
Pressing 10
Defensive line 15
Compactness 16

Formation is something like 4231 with high defense line, a DMF, a CMF, an AMF, and depending on the form of players' side midfielders or wingers.
What do you think? I am trying to set up your team Arsenal so far as is reasonably possible.

And by the way .. do you think that the settings for Chelsea, which gave bluchamp are appropriate and finished? If so, it would be cool to add to their formations
 
dunno if they're perfect or not, but the chelsea settings from justpes is better than the default ones for sure...
 
klashman69 said:
Yes, the only tactic which is explained well is CB overlap which just triggers your centre back to run forward ans upportt he attack!

The rest.

Possession (OFF) = hold possession in the opp. half
Possesion (DEF) = sit back/counter
Long Ball = strikers stay upfront to have the chance for quick counters/long balls
Quick Counter = if u loose the ball pressure to get it back, mainly in the opp. half
Swap Wings = if u make a run on one side, ai will trigger a run on the other side
Click to expand...

fixed
 
Guys,
i am completely confused

I lost my confidence and now, after couple of lost games against my metes, i don't know how to set up my Arsenal side.

I know that this is not your problem, but i promise that after this help, i will stick to the most realistic strategy and you will not see me compaining here at all

So please response..
 
what do you mean Barca 1 ..? This one which you described ubove ?
I dont know how it will work with player support so low...
I think when you are playing and you have so low p.s. , then the full backs will not going forward...?
what do you think ?
 
It works very well with player support being low, so it means you will be able to conserve possession better, with it being high, players run ahead of the ball to much!
 
hi everybody, glad to see some tactital discussion here.

Not that i want to add to the confusion (or maybe it's obvious), but i feel like any setting you choose depend on your formation and your opponent's.

For example, i felt two different behaviours for my (mlo) team while playing against widespread or compact formations.

I globally disagree with the "pressure" approach in the game. Imho, pressure is not how your team will pressure his opponent but how players will act when your opponent has the ball.
They stay upfront with a high setting (like 15), they fall back with a low setting (say 5 for example).

Player support and pressure define how high or low your team is depending on who has the ball.

On the same idea, Distance Support and Compactness (maybe i'm wrong with the englih translation since i'm french :p) are complementary.
 
Klashman - Your comment in JustPES was caught in spam and I've released it only now. Some very good discussions here. Interesting find from Olly. I should try that out.

It's a pity that PES 2011 does not have a piggyback guide. It is this edition of the game that badly needs a guide so there's no 'loss in translation'. the earlier piggyback guides were fantastic and such a guide for PES/WE 2011 would be brilliant. I remember Jon Murphy saying that it won't be piggyback this time but a different producer for the guide.

I'm still waiting for the patch for WE 2011. Meanwhile I've posted a couple of articles in JustPES. I'm reproducing one here so we can test it out and debate:

Just a quick post to share my successful experiment. We all know that the animations in PES is a bit of a downer and the roboticism kind of spoils it during gameplay sometimes. I did an experiment and it worked for me beautifully. I play on a 42 inch HDTV. I’m on PS3. Here we go:

1. Go to display settings in your PS3 (the equivalent in X360)
2. Set the display to 420p. Have 720p, 1080i and 1080p unticked.
3. Set the display ratio to 4:3
4. Save and load up PES/WE 2011 and enjoy!

Of course, we are dumbing down the high definition graphics. Images won’t look as sharper. But you know what, all these seem to improve the gameplay. The game flows a lot more smoother. I know its strange but this is true! Even f this doesn’t work for you or if you don’t like this, you can reset this in 10 seconds.

Do give it a try though. You’ll be pleasantly surprised. Nowadays I play only on 420p and 4:3 ratio for my Winning Eleven 2011.
Click to expand...

Hope you find it useful. Please do report back! Thanks!
 
bluchampblogger said:
Klashman - Your comment in JustPES was caught in spam and I've released it only now. Some very good discussions here. Interesting find from Olly. I should try that out.

It's a pity that PES 2011 does not have a piggyback guide. It is this edition of the game that badly needs a guide so there's no 'loss in translation'. the earlier piggyback guides were fantastic and such a guide for PES/WE 2011 would be brilliant. I remember Jon Murphy saying that it won't be piggyback this time but a different producer for the guide.

I'm still waiting for the patch for WE 2011. Meanwhile I've posted a couple of articles in JustPES. I'm reproducing one here so we can test it out and debate:



Hope you find it useful. Please do report back! Thanks!
Click to expand...
fuck that might as well play on PS2!!!
 
klashman69 said:
RIGHT LET'S GET STARTED!

The definitive BARCELONA formation here:

Now if you play against Barca with their default formations and tactics. they are tough to beat but they are very flawed and vulnerable!

Basically their formation and tactics are all set up too generically with no real thought put into them! So as long as you have a good team you should beat them!

Now i did a load of experiments watching them vs the AI and tweaking their formations and tactics and this is the lovely result at the end of it:

I played Barcelona vs me (Aston Villa) here are the stats at the final whistle (15 minute match top player)
pes20112010102510024273.png

By klash69 at 2010-11-02
Didn't even have a shot! I know they where that much in control it was mindblowing! I had to foul them a hell of a lot to try keep them at bay, Villa eventually got injured thank god :LOL:

Now here's the tactics and formation i assigned them, looks unorthodox and a bit mad but this shows the depth and freedom given to you by the tactics system:

Formation.
pes20112010102509315356.png

By klash69 at 2010-11-02
Why so high up the pitch? the whereabouts of your positioning dictate where the players are situated when they have the ball! One interesting thing also is that no matter how far up the pitch you put your Full backs the defense will ALWAYS work together with the center backs and will always drop back to hold a line!

IMPORTANTLY You need to place Dani Alves right on the halfway line but make sure he’s set as a Right Back, if you player him that far up the pitch he will quite literally run forward to support every single attack just like in real life!

With the tactics






Make sure the team management playing styles are set the ‘Possession game defensive’ It’s the key tactical factor for this team, with the default settings they play the ball forward too much and don’t look to dominate the game and conserve possession, instead try and blow you away with slick attacking minded passing. With this setting they play the ball around and take their time and probe, they will have the ball for large parts of the game and will be hard to disposes from it!

Also a crucial reason for placing them this high up is to get them to effectively play the high line game, their pressure game is a lot more effective since they are all so close together and they contain you so much they give you 0 time on the ball, just like in real life, they force you into mistakes by making you play at a lighting speed which just isn’t possible!

Many thanks to Bluchamp and mame as I looked at their formulas and tweaked them using CPU vs CPU games to create this!

Hopefully we can get bluchamp to set his website up like the custom tactics project was last year! Hoping to see others out there with more tactical contributions :)
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hey, looks interesting.. did you actually play that same formation/tactics yourself with barcelona or are these only ur obeservations when playing against them (COM)? normally the teams will behave differently when controlled by human player.. please advise. thx
 
bluchampblogger said:
Klashman - Your comment in JustPES was caught in spam and I've released it only now. Some very good discussions here. Interesting find from Olly. I should try that out.

It's a pity that PES 2011 does not have a piggyback guide. It is this edition of the game that badly needs a guide so there's no 'loss in translation'. the earlier piggyback guides were fantastic and such a guide for PES/WE 2011 would be brilliant. I remember Jon Murphy saying that it won't be piggyback this time but a different producer for the guide.

I'm still waiting for the patch for WE 2011. Meanwhile I've posted a couple of articles in JustPES. I'm reproducing one here so we can test it out and debate:



Hope you find it useful. Please do report back! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Great way to make the gameplay more fluid.It's so much faster and feels like the speed the game should be.It's such a shame the graphics are poorer.

But is there another way to make the game this fluid without the loss of graphics?I don't know if it's me but when I try and do a sideways dribble using R2 the player takes two or three steps too many and I have no control of him.
 
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