Is it time 2K made a football game?

StarEye said:
That is so far from the truth it's laughable. I love PES as much as the next man, and prefer it over FIFA any day, but to say FIFA is as arcadey as they were back then (FIFA 98/99/etc) is ignorant.
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Stop using the term "arcade" as if it meant "simplistic", "mediocre".

FIFA isn't "arcade", it's just very automated (even on Manual) and piss-poor easy.

There's also no actual gameplay depth (although the unnecessarily convoluted controls might deceive you into thinking otherwise): some strategies got 100% success rate while some are just hard-coded into not working, no matter how hard you try and having a go at a creative take on playing/scoring (as opposed to using the same sure-fire technique 24/7) actually turns out to be detrimental in the long run.

It's also full of glitches and scripted stuff, which makes the gameplay exploitable as heck.

The true arcade games from back then may have been visually unrealistic, however most of them were neither easy nor simple and probably did a better job at capturing the flow, spirit and atmosphere of the game than their contemporary counterparts (besides, many of them weren't bad games either).

Case in point being the fact that timeless classics such as Kick Off 2, Sensible Soccer, NHL "94, J.League Excite Stage and the likes were easy to pick up but insanely hard to master, rewarded skill (especially in multiplayer) and, most importantly, were FUN and rarely ever frustrating (no fucking glitches or random occurrences skewing the game over and over).

Also, PS1/PS2's FIFA were garbage just as much as FIFA 10/11, the only real element that's setting the allegedly "next-gen" versions apart is the graphics (that and advertisement, I guess).
 
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Eh, I'm not sure I share the view on FIFA.

Also, I'm not sure I would call Kick Off 2 easy to pick up and play. That game is tough as nails - heck, even SWOS is difficult if you've never played it before (I've ran into a couple of them). It really depended on understanding the idea behind aftertouch, the loose ball controls and one-button controls. And the speed of KO2 makes it hard to get into, unless you're very devoted to doing it.
 
One word: licensing.

EA and Konami hold all the major licensing deals between them, many of which are exclusive. 2K Sports would have to enter the market with a largely unlicensed football game and I just don't think there's much of a market for that any more, even if the gameplay is on a par with the NBA 2K series.
 
PES has managed year after year without licenses. People don't buy PES for the licenses, that's for sure. If licenses were that important, FIFA would be the only game on the market.

If the game gets a decent editor, that wouldn't be an issue anyway. Plus, the names are more or less correct, it's just the team names, emblems and kits and stuff like that that aren't.
 
StarEye said:
PES has managed year after year without licenses. People don't buy PES for the licenses, that's for sure. If licenses were that important, FIFA would be the only game on the market.

If the game gets a decent editor, that wouldn't be an issue anyway. Plus, the names are more or less correct, it's just the team names, emblems and kits and stuff like that that aren't.
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But PES has the Champions League, Copa Libertadores, fully licensed Ligue 1 and Eredivisie, almost fully licensed La Liga and Serie A plus loads of other licensed clubs and national teams. PES no longer has to manage without licenses, if it did I don't think it would do at all well.
 
Jamezinho said:
But PES has the Champions League, Copa Libertadores, fully licensed Ligue 1 and Eredivisie, almost fully licensed La Liga and Serie A plus loads of other licensed clubs and national teams. PES no longer has to manage without licenses, if it did I don't think it would do at all well.
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You're forgetting that when PES popularity was at its highest, they had very few licenses. The licenses you're talking about have only come later, when the game has DECLINED in popularity. If licenses made a game more popular, it certainly isn't reflected in PES at all. I seriously doubt there's even one single person who buys PES for the licenses - care about them yes, but not basing their purchase on them.

In other words, it's the success of PES that has granted Konami the opportunity to get Licenses. It's not the licenses that has made PES popular. If a game is good enough, have a great editor and good support for mods like PES, it can survive without licenses in the long run. Don't underestimate the power of great gameplay.
 
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Looking at the previous gen, it's surprising how little current gen has to offer when it comes to soccer games. In PS2 era there was PES and FIFA, but also the ISS and TIF series, Red Card soccer from Midway (arcade but fun), World Fantasista (Japan only) from Square Enix (I have to try it out), some other games I don't remember. Don't forget Football Kingdom from Namco, it was the closest thing to PES back then, sadly it didn't saw an european release (unlike Virtua Pro Football from Sega, which was an ambitious but poor attempt) or even a sequel, I genuinely think we were close to having a third big player. Now it's only FIFA and PES, I'd love to see some other developers trying to make their own football sim, and 2K seems to have what it takes to make a decent (at least) footie. I'm afraid though it won't happen since it's too risky I believe, making a licensed (to keep up with the competition) soccer game from scratch...
 
I forgot about Club Football from Codemasters, except for the animation it was arguably the best looking footie back then (2005 edition in particular).
 
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