Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experience?

Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

I don't know why people say PES has gone backward. Its better than PES6. I enjoy the ML in PES way more than single player in FIFA. Don't know why its just a personal preference.
 
Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

The problem for me is a design problem, as placebo mentioned. They said they were using a "threat map" and every cpu player could have up to 1000 parameters per second conditioning what he was going to do. I thought the idea was very good and sometimes, when playing the CPU, you really get surprised by how good they play. BUT... the superhuman dribbling abbilities and changing strength and pace on the fly of the cpu players show that the CPU is not obeying the same rules your own players do.

What what's worse... it's as if the players of my team controlled by the CPU had NOT this threat map active. And that's crap. My CPU controlled center back should have the same level of tactical awareness than the cpu players. And that doesn't happen. You teammates will simply stand in position and ignoring the world around them.

At the end, it's not a problem of CPU power exclusively. Part of the problem would be solved by working deeper on this "threat map" and choices of players, and on the other side, they should allow more cpu usage to the AI modules of the game. In my opinion, they should concentrate exclusively on controls and AI for the 09 game, but we know it won't happen.

Most of the consumers will evaluate the game by the graphics or licenses. Most of consumers will play the game eventually and never think about AI, game desing and so. It's democracy. You know what happens when majority of people decide: minority is minority.

About the analogies of chess games and football games AI... The football games AI is still far from "Deep Blue" levels. Consider that the CPU in FIFA 08, for example, is NOT a simulation of someone playing with a gamepad. I mean, the CPU doesn't "press" buttons at all. When they shoot, they simply decide where it's going and it's done.

In the path towards a challenging AI I foresee 2 different stages:
1- Being challenging: more actions being considered, more claculations done, better patterns of play... that would even allow to have different kinds of play (short passing teams, direct long balls teams...)

2- Simulating a human playing the game: that will be even harder and I doubt we ever play a game where we can't see if the opponent is the CPU or a friend.

That's my 22 cents about it.
 
Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

Someone made a good point earlier in the thread about the AI in be a pro offline. That same AI should be implemented for every game mode, but its not. Of the many problems, part is that in the single player or online, that AI from be a pro offline is gone, and the players are just empty shells with little or no AI guiding them. No human player can control all 11 players on the field at the same time, and we need help to make sure the players dont get out of position, or they intercept passes right in the front of them, but FIFA chose not give help in that area. Coupled with the slow game play, and the fact that manual changing players usually results in giving you the wrong players, thus taking that player out of position which then leaves to the player conceding goals. Its a very frustrating part of Fifa. Also, on corners, when the ball in cleared I have experienced that I cannot, no matter what I do, manually change players until the ball is touched, its very annoying, anyone have that problem?
 
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Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

Noted said:
I don't know why people say PES has gone backward. Its better than PES6. I enjoy the ML in PES way more than single player in FIFA. Don't know why its just a personal preference.
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if you ask me Noted PES6 was WAYYY less arcadey than 2008 so if that isnt going backwards I dont know what isnt?
 
Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

The thing is I think there will always be an element of cheating/scripting in our single player games.... otherwise we would exploit the same AI Issues and win games easily everytime!

The only time this will change is when we have Super Computers embedded inside our Games Consoles... Wonder if ill still be playing consoles in 2040?
 
Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

FIFA was up to it's old tricks last night again:

Me and CW play our Manager Mode together, we felt we had taken Atletico as far as we could so started a new one as Man City. We started on 5 mins, World Class. And that CPU was fucking untouchable :mad:. We couldn't even get fucking near the cheating cunts. You literally couldn't get the ball. We would close down the man, cover his passing options so he had no where to go, then amazingly, he would just turn on a sixpence, in the blink of an eye, and run off in another direction, leaving us dumbfounded and annoyed!

That was for the first two games I think, and I remembered reading on here that the CPU cheats to no end on World Class, but on Professional it's a much better game. So we switched it to Professional for the next game, and wow - what a difference! It's just such a more balanced game! It doesn't make it so easy that you win every game with ease, in fact, we drew a couple and lost one to Everton, who completely played us off the pitch, they were class :applause:. But not class in the fact they cheated and we couldn't get near them, they just used the ball very well when they had it.

On professional, the CPU just becomes more human: they misplace passes, they make mistimed/bad tackles, you can get near to them and tackle them. Basically they make mistakes, just as we did. It was soooo much better it was unbelievable. Check the Manager Mode thread for an update from our MM later from CW :).
 
Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

Tim7 said:
FIFA was up to it's old tricks last night again:

Me and CW play our Manager Mode together, we felt we had taken Atletico as far as we could so started a new one as Man City. We started on 5 mins, World Class. And that CPU was fucking untouchable :mad:. We couldn't even get fucking near the cheating cunts. You literally couldn't get the ball. We would close down the man, cover his passing options so he had no where to go, then amazingly, he would just turn on a sixpence, in the blink of an eye, and run off in another direction, leaving us dumbfounded and annoyed!

That was for the first two games I think, and I remembered reading on here that the CPU cheats to no end on World Class, but on Professional it's a much better game. So we switched it to Professional for the next game, and wow - what a difference! It's just such a more balanced game! It doesn't make it so easy that you win every game with ease, in fact, we drew a couple and lost one to Everton, who completely played us off the pitch, they were class :applause:. But not class in the fact they cheated and we couldn't get near them, they just used the ball very well when they had it.

On professional, the CPU just becomes more human: they misplace passes, they make mistimed/bad tackles, you can get near to them and tackle them. Basically they make mistakes, just as we did. It was soooo much better it was unbelievable. Check the Manager Mode thread for an update from our MM later from CW :).
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Totally agree with ya there mate. Its amazing how much we were given the runaround by the CPU on World Class, pissed me right off! Switching to Pro made all the difference and I was enjoying playing last night.
The update is now in the MM thread

DJ Doc4 said:
This is a dumbass question but how did you guys play Manager Mode together?
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I went round Tims
 
Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

CW said:
Totally agree with ya there mate. Its amazing how much we were given the runaround by the CPU on World Class, pissed me right off! Switching to Pro made all the difference and I was enjoying playing last night.
The update is now in the MM thread



I went round Tims
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I thought you coud do it online?
 
Re: Is it possible for programmers to make a good footballing single player experienc

You cant do a manager mode online mate :(
 
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