Graeme Le Saux article

The sad disgrace about it all is the fact that if he had acted with far less dignity I think it would have stopped a lot sooner. I mean if he just tried to break the first persons nose who suggested such a thing in training or on the pitch, whether he did'em or not it would probably have ended it...cause thickos would see that as not being gay.

That would have been a lot less dignfied and wrong, but It probably have worked...

Not about being hard or tough more about being mental and not letting it happen...kids in school who get bullied for all kinds tend to do so preciely because they don't make a stand.

Interesting logic though that reading the Guardian would equal gay. What chavtastic logic, reading the guardian might mean you are more likely to be liberal going slightly left wing and it might be an indication of intelligence in comparison to reading the Sun and tabloits say...but I was not aware of the stated connection Haha what Loons.
 
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The Guardian is one of my favourite papers and the only English paper i read now and then...
i had never heard of the Fowler incident. The ref and the linesman in that match were assholes...
I think a football dressing room is full of grwn childeren.
And what the fuck is wrong with gay people????
Even in this thread people can't resist to make lame jokes about it...on the continent we have the image of English men that they are not comfortable with their own sexuality. These stereotypes are wrong, but if iread Lesaux' article they seem justified.
Lesaux' crime was that he was intelligent, that he read books...

I love football, but i'm not sure i would like most football players.
 
A very interesting read especially his description of Fowler's rationale - and whether he will say anything racist to black players.

I really hope that his book sells well and people like Andy Townsend, Paul Ince and (although I loved his days at LFC) Robbie Fowler will have to make some form of public apology.
 
gerd said:
The Guardian is one of my favourite papers and the only English paper i read now and then...
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It is the only paper I like to read apart from maybe the Independent.

gerd said:
i had never heard of the Fowler incident. The ref and the linesman in that match were assholes...
I think a football dressing room is full of grwn childeren.
And what the fuck is wrong with gay people????
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I know it is crap isn’t it.

gerd said:
Even in this thread people can't resist to make lame jokes about it...
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I don’t think so, I think that is English irony in action. It is the idea that if you parody such shitty people you actually are having more of a go at them., so I think the jokes were ironic humour and attacking the idiots involved. This type of humour is evidenced in Ricky Gervaise’s comedy and is seen in the office and extras. It was seen in Alf Garnet and is also seen in American movies such as Blazing saddles. I suspect something was lost in translation.

gerd said:
on the continent we have the image of English men that they are not comfortable with their own sexuality. These stereotypes are wrong, but if iread Lesaux' article they seem justified.
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Now see what you have gone and done there?

You are complaining about stereotypes and then just leapt gratuitously right into one. What happened in the case of Le Saux is NOT acceptable and was very bad. On a much lower level what you have just said is equally bad and not acceptable.

English men are not of one mind Gerd no more than Spanish men are, or Brazilian men are or German men are. There are English men who are not comfortable with these things just like there are English men that are perfectly comfortable with these things.

I am an English man, my girlfriends best mate is a gay bloke. I have met him gone the pub etc and me and my girl have gone out on his birthday to gay bars….I see no problem at all and I am comfortable. I see no problem at all and don’t really understand why other people could or would unless they are insecure about themselves or are a bit ignorant.

Point is don’t fall into the horrendous trap of labeling people whether it is a bloke who reads the guardian, genuinely gay people, THE English, Spanish people, Black people etc.

gerd said:
Lesaux' crime was that he was intelligent, that he read books...
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Yep it seems so. It seems as though he is the victim of a chavy football culture, that he payed the cost because of ignorant people with probably a lot of other people not wanting to get involved on his behalf because they were weak.

OPM said:
what? reading books? ;)
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Why not the logic is equally as bad as the reason LeSauz was given such a hard time.
 
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vanzandt said:
I don’t think so, I think that is English irony in action. It is the idea that if you parody such shitty people you actually are having more of a go at them., so I think the jokes were ironic humour and attacking the idiots involved. This type of humour is evidenced in Ricky Gervaise’s comedy and is seen in the office and extras. It was seen in Alf Garnet and is also seen in American movies such as Blazing saddles. I suspect something was lost in translation.
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It was.

I still think Le Saux is a cry baby batty boy though, who likes to stick phones up Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell's bumhole and ring them to make them vibrate.
Allegedly.
 
steevio_uk said:
It was.

I still think Le Saux is a cry baby batty boy though, who likes to stick phones up Ashley Cole and Sol Campbell's bumhole and ring them to make them vibrate.
Allegedly.
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Ok.

Now I'm not actually sure whether you were being purly ironic like I was and are continuing to be or not....?

Hard to tell mate....It could be very deep seated irony but I just don't know now.
 
Vanzandt, i probably agree with you on the humour thing...it can be cultural...i admire professional English humour, but i admit that a lot of aggro between English and foreign posters is due to humour and the different perception.

When you lectured me on my stereotyping, i think you misunderstood or (more likely) did not explain myself very good (keep in mind that i'm not a native English speaker). I don't agree with the stereotyping of English people as having trouble with their own sexuality (and i'm not only referring to homosexuality), but the image and stereotype is definately very much present over here. I have to say that a certain kind of tourist does not help to change the image...i'm talking about exclusively male groups of people who embark here wearing football shirts (very common in England, not done in Europe) and who are only interested in binge drinking. When they are drunk they finally have the guts to "speak" about thing related to sexuality and of course it's all wrong...usually they end up in jail if only for a night...
Of course these people are an absolute minority but they determine the image of a country...just like most English people talk about "boring Belgium" which infuriates us...
One of the intresting, but sometimes frustrating things on this forum is precisely this cultural gap...

Steevio, i owe you an apology...i did not understand your humour...i judged too soon...sorry.
 
gerd said:
Vanzandt, i probably agree with you on the humour thing...it can be cultural...i admire professional English humour, but i admit that a lot of aggro between English and foreign posters is due to humour and the different perception.
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I guess that would make sense.

gerd said:
When you lectured me on my stereotyping, i think you misunderstood or (more likely) did not explain myself very good (keep in mind that i'm not a native English speaker).
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I understand, I guess the interpretation is a lot more difficult for the reason you mention.

gerd said:
I don't agree with the stereotyping of English people as having trouble with their own sexuality (and i'm not only referring to homosexuality), but the image and stereotype is definately very much present over here.
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I don’t dispute that the stereotype maybe in existence but it is like all stereotypes a truly false impression of the majority of people that it seeks to pigeon-hole.

gerd said:
I have to say that a certain kind of tourist does not help to change the image...i'm talking about exclusively male groups of people who embark here wearing football shirts (very common in England, not done in Europe) and who are only interested in binge drinking. When they are drunk they finally have the guts to "speak" about thing related to sexuality and of course it's all wrong...usually they end up in jail if only for a night...
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I think that is stereotyping a stereotype in all honesty, unless something is mistaken. I mean first of all you have to understand that football shirt wearing holiday makers are a fraction of English people and not remotely representative of the public in England as a whole. Secondly many of those on holiday who wear football shirts do not do anything wrong at all or any of the things you mention, and the mere fact that it is culturally different for them to wear football shirts does not make them all louts. If you think it does then that is again a stereotype.

From those that do wear football shirts, there is a minority of who will binge drink. That in itself again is not a social problem as long as they cause no harm. So you have an even smaller minority who go on holiday, wear football shirts, binge drink and then cause harm and end up in cells, sort of like a minority of a minority of a minority. Of cause such people probably cause an awful lot of damage of trouble and even as a minority; on the basis of large numbers of holiday makers they will represent a problem….

But to think that those in the cells or those you have mentioned are representative of English people is simply not true and to even think that most English holiday makers are like that is not tru and to think that most football shirt wearing holiday makers are like that is also not true.

gerd said:
Of course these people are an absolute minority but they determine the image of a country...just like most English people talk about "boring Belgium" which infuriates us...
One of the intresting, but sometimes frustrating things on this forum is precisely this cultural gap...
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That is the point….that such people are a tiny minority and such stereotypical myths and pigeon-holing needs to be exposed for the rubbish that it is. I understand that there are these stereotypes, that can if you allow them determine the image of a country….the key is to not allow that to happen, to not allow them and not trade in them.

Which is why I have a friend from Munich who I do not think is going to steal sun loungers. When I first met him I didn’t assume that he had no sense of humour (very funny bloke) and think he would be very efficient. Likewise I do not assume that people from Belgium are boring or that Belgium is boring, I don’t think that is credible. Neither do I think that the Dutch are all liberal minded or that the Irish or Scots are all heavy drinkers, or that the Italians are all romantic etc…..it’s all just rubbish.

Even if one could argue a grain of truth in a stereotype at their conception, they are all so woefully out of date with generations past that any small truth no longer exists.

Even reputations of cities are often at total odds with the truth due to the change of time.

Sorry for waffling…

I'll try and think about the language thing a bit more...I do sometimes and other times forget..
 
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Christ gerd... no apologies needed at all mate!!
We are all good, have a laugh and have a pop at each other. as long as we all know it's in good spirit that's all that matters!

fwiw, I though Le Saux was a tremendous wing back/full back and a pretty nice fella.
Though he was very dangerously camp with his art collecting, great sense of style and haircuts, but with a bird like he had, I don't think he cares!! :lol:
 
There was a match where Le Saux said David Beckham called him "a fucking poof" after he accidentally elbowed him on the head and made him bleed. He said he was more shocked of that than anything else, mainly because Beckham was considered this kinda gay icon lol!

I read it in a newspaper somewhere (can't remember).
 
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