FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

[martyl2]

Thanks for replying!

Like what?! The ball behaves not like in real life! Combined with the horrible inhuman animations... it looks of. But ok. Maybe it’s time to create a compare video. I don’t need it cause it’s clear as day.. but hey. Opinions. All good.

Like what, again?! You don’t get loose balls?! In between you and the opponent so you have to run for it (50/50)?! Hm...

Guess there is a video coming up for you as well.
Thing is. I don’t want to be the „know it all better“ guy. A video might not convince you guys it’s all in the Game, and i don’t want to be the „convincer“ as well!!

Maybe I’ll bring up a steam tonight to show you what I mean! What time would suit you guys best? I make it happen as I’m sick at home for 2 weeks (nothing really bad, just sick ). Tell me please! I want everyone to enjoy this beautiful football videogame!! Because it is beautiful!!!

Bro look forward to the video!

 

[rojofa]

I do respect your experience! And you described what i can’t express (because my non-knowledge of the English language) perfectly!!
Aesthetically, that’s the word, PES is so superior in that regard, imo!
I watch a lot of replays while playing. I like the slomo of a good scenario (and I dive in for minutes)!!
And that translates to gameplay for me.
When you create a video, side by side, tv cam, tactics set up... you would see the difference. And by you I mean everyone.

So when I go back to the fifa demo, all that agility is lost. It’s just automated, not life like, passing. Not life like player behavior and what not....

For me it's not a positive with how Konami approach ball physics...

You do get nice looking long balls and especially crosses, which are satisfying to pull off when you spot an opening... You get occasional realistic looking football moments out of it, but it all feels rather artificial and dated in terms of the mechanics and engine behind it. The longer I play, the more I get bored with seeing the same ball trajectories and spins all the time.

The two long range goals you posted twitter vids to today are both the same old straight top corner rocket shots that I have seen in the game thousands of times. Some go wide, some too close to the keeper, and occasionally they'll fly into the corners... But it's always the same kind of shot.

Because of that, no shots seem particularly unique or impressive - there's no thrill when seeing/feeling that you got a perfect contact on the ball, which is one of the biggest joys of playing football, because it happens all the time in PES (especially on manual). I don't really get much satisfaction out of one of those predictable rocket shots flying in the top corner simply because I twiddled my thumbs accurately enough that time. I want to see shots get scuffed, skied, sliced, tamely rolling to the keeper etc so that when you do see a screamer, it feels like an actual highlight.

There's very little in the way of actual real-time physics calculations going on in the game. Certain animations trigger certain ball paths/spins and it seems that's pretty much all there is to it... FIFA may ultimately fail at providing a realistic looking/feeling football game (probably by design, unfortunately), but in almost every aspect it's gameplay and animation systems are far more complex and ambitious than the PES equivalents. It feels more tactile even if it looks less realistic.

 

[PRO_TOO]

For me it's not a positive with how Konami approach ball physics...

You do get nice looking long balls and especially crosses, which are satisfying to pull off when you spot an opening... You get occasional realistic looking football moments out of it, but it all feels rather artificial and dated in terms of the mechanics and engine behind it. The longer I play, the more I get bored with seeing the same ball trajectories and spins all the time.

The two long range goals you posted twitter vids to today are both the same old straight top corner rocket shots that I have seen in the game thousands of times. Some go wide, some too close to the keeper, and occasionally they'll fly into the corners... But it's always the same kind of shot.

Because of that, no shots seem particularly unique or impressive - there's no thrill when seeing/feeling that you got a perfect contact on the ball, which is one of the biggest joys of playing football, because it happens all the time in PES (especially on manual). I don't really get much satisfaction out of one of those predictable rocket shots flying in the top corner simply because I twiddled my thumbs accurately enough that time. I want to see shots get scuffed, skied, sliced, tamely rolling to the keeper etc so that when you do see a screamer, it feels like an actual highlight.

There's very little in the way of actual real-time physics calculations going on in the game. Certain animations trigger certain ball paths/spins and it seems that's pretty much all there is to it... FIFA may ultimately fail at providing a realistic looking/feeling football game (probably by design, unfortunately), but in almost every aspect it's gameplay and animation systems are far more complex and ambitious than the PES equivalents. It feels more tactile even if it looks less realistic.

Absolutely. I’m with you. We need more variety while shooting on goal!!
That doesn’t stop me from having the fun of my life, playing a football game on PS4!!!

 

[Moderator]

Is there one (or more) user in here, that prefer the ball physics of fifa over PES ball physics? Just asking.
If you are, please tell me why!

Me. It feels and looks good to me although I understand it can also be affected by your system specs (PC) and your monitor refresh rate and your GFX card settings and whatever additions you've made. I loved PES19's passing mechanics and ball physics but PES20 didn't have the same feel for me.

 

[slamsoze]

I don't know if I *prefer* FIFA's ball physics but they are genuine, i.e. a deflected ball's path is calculated based on angles rather than going directly to a player all the time (which is so obvious in PES that it's laughable, almost every single deflection either lands perfectly at someone's feet or goes out of play, but never to open space).

So true. Some deflections is PES, especially in CPU favour, bounce back like the yo-yo.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Bro look forward to the video!

Someone did the video already!



If people can’t see the difference... I don’t know what to say anymore. But it’s cool.

 

[Chuny]

There's a lot of room for improvement but I too think PES 2020 is the best football game of this generation.
Up there with FIFA 16.

 

[Negatrev]

There's a lot of room for improvement but I too think PES 2020 is the best football game of this generation.
Up there with FIFA 16.

I was going to say I assume you mean console generation and then remembered I've been playing football games for around 30 years now and they are certainly better than they were in the last 10 or 20 years, so both are probably true for me

 

[Chuny]

I was going to say I assume you mean console generation and then remembered I've been playing football games for around 30 years now and they are certainly better than they were in the last 10 or 20 years, so both are probably true for me

I mean technology generation.
I'm 32, so both would apply for me as well.

 

[bluewomble88]

I'm still playing a lot of Fifa 19 and I love the shooting mechanics - just so far ahead of PES these days. I'm seeing all sorts of deflected, scuffed, bobbled, and sliced shots that look so lifelike that it gives such a sense of satisfaction. I just don't get that feeling with PES.

 

[hitmanuk]

Is there one (or more) user in here, that prefer the ball physics of fifa over PES ball physics? Just asking.
If you are, please tell me why!

Fifa ball physics are horrendous. I tried fifa 19 and fifa 20 demo again to make sure I wasn't missing anything and the games terrible. Fifa 19 is 22 players running around like madmen, there's little tactical structure. Fifa 20 is somehow worse due to how light the players feel. Pes is so much heavier and lifelike and you can put a foot on the ball. Now fifa has sliders but i spend more time fidgeting with them than I do playing. And by fixing, sorry making less bad, one thing you break another

 

[Peter Withe]

Fifa ball physics are horrendous. I tried fifa 19 and fifa 20 demo again to make sure I wasn't missing anything and the games terrible. Fifa 19 is 22 players running around like madmen, there's little tactical structure. Fifa 20 is somehow worse due to how light the players feel. Pes is so much heavier and lifelike and you can put a foot on the ball. Now fifa has sliders but i spend more time fidgeting with them than I do playing. And by fixing, sorry making less bad, one thing you break another

PES ball physics are still stuck in the dark ages as well.

Every goal feels and looks similar because of the predictable, straight rocket shots. The ball never changes trajectory when you shoot, it’s still very archaic.

PES 2020 still plays like a football game stuck in 2004 but with a HDR option. In fact, I played PES 5 for a few hours after work and already saw more variation in the goals scored both by me and by the CPU. And FOULS! PES 5 has fouls, lots of them.

 

[Chuny]

I think PES ball physics are amazing and far more realistic than FIFA's.

Not to be mistaken with mechanics or animations.

 

[manmachine]

Is there one (or more) user in here, that prefer the ball physics of fifa over PES ball physics? Just asking.
If you are, please tell me why!

I'm a heretic: I honestly don't care that much. First of all ball physics are mostly "fake" in both games and have always been like that. In a video game concept you have a limited number of animations. The ball just has to accommodate them in order for the game to make sense visually and have any kind of flow. You can bet the ball speed & trajectory are manipulated so that everything looks in sync. In real life this is reversed, footballers adjust their body or their stride in a million different subtle or not so subtle ways to accommodate any ball movement.

Both companies can only hope to fool you that it's somehow real. Having said that, yeah, I do like how pes feels: I mean the weight of the ball and the players. I suppose it's how fifa is designed to be faster and more "responsive" to blame. Speed & weight go hand in hand. But like others have said Fifa is surprisingly ahead when in comes to random shit that can happen for years now.

I'm more concerned with how both games fail completely at a higher level: Tactics & AI. I really struggle to enjoy either game. So whenever I hear praise about the ball physics I'm like "So, what? I can kick a ball in my room against the wall and get the same experience with 100% realistic physics". But a full 11v11 football match? That's what I need a game to provide and both fall short for me.

In an ideal world I would take the Fifa AI which is *light years* ahead and the PES animations/ball weight. Tactics are a dumpster fire in both games, someone will have to come up with something new, lol.

 

[hitmanuk]

PES ball physics are still stuck in the dark ages as well.

Every goal feels and looks similar because of the predictable, straight rocket shots. The ball never changes trajectory when you shoot, it’s still very archaic.

PES 2020 still plays like a football game stuck in 2004 but with a HDR option. In fact, I played PES 5 for a few hours after work and already saw more variation in the goals scored both by me and by the CPU. And FOULS! PES 5 has fouls, lots of them.

Its not a serious conversation if your comparing pes 2020 movement to winning eleven 5,, I get enough Fouls in pes2020

 

[Peter Withe]

Its not a serious conversation if your comparing pes 2020 movement to winning eleven 5

It’s not a serious conversation when you’re saying how awful FIFA’s ball physics are yet praising PES 2020’s. The very same PES where I’m yet to see a goal which isn’t like a straight arrow. It’s bland and arcade-like.

Both games are far from good enough.

 

[hitmanuk]

It’s not serious conversation when you’re saying how awful FIFA’s ball physics are yet praising PES 2020’s. The very same PES where I’m yet to see a goal which isn’t like a straight arrow. It’s bland and arcade-like.

Both games are far from good enough.

I'm more than happy with pes 2020, it's good enough as far as I'm concerned

 

[Peter Withe]

I'm more than happy with pes 2020, it's good enough as far as I'm concerned

That’s because you spend your time in cup matches.

Play a master league campaign on superstar and you’ll see the hundreds of issues.

 

[Negatrev]

It’s not a serious conversation when you’re saying how awful FIFA’s ball physics are yet praising PES 2020’s. The very same PES where I’m yet to see a goal which isn’t like a straight arrow. It’s bland and arcade-like.

Both games are far from good enough.

You've said this before and were given videos that showed non-straight shots. But even then, ball physics are far more than just the shots (which will be similar if you always take the same shots from the same stance).
The loose ball effects in PES 2020 are far beyond what we've seen in a long time. It's far more noticeable if you play with worse players. The loose touches, the blocked shots sometimes spinning and changing direction as the ball hits the turf, the defenders slicing a clearance and a goalkeeper making a double save as the first came off the back of the fullback's leg.

I firmly believe a lot of the early issues (which aren't entirely fixed) with players not reacting to the ball are because the ball has been given a lot more freedom.

But I also believe that you see a lot less of that variation if you play on the highest difficulty levels because the AI can force you into certain behaviours in order to succeed.

 

[hitmanuk]

That’s because you spend your time in cup matches.

Play a master league campaign on superstar and you’ll see the hundreds of issues.

I'm not sure why I have to play a particular mode butbive started one as Wigan, won 1 nil in first game and had 7 freekicks

 

[TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal!]

It’s not a serious conversation when you’re saying how awful FIFA’s ball physics are yet praising PES 2020’s. The very same PES where I’m yet to see a goal which isn’t like a straight arrow. It’s bland and arcade-like.

Both games are far from good enough.

For all FIFA's issues its ball physics (IMO) are a LOT better than PES's. As you say in your post every shot in PES feels straightlined. No variation in the shooting whatsoever. Even the way the ball rolls along the ground when passed between players doesn't seem right to me.

In FIFA the ball physics especially with the shooting they are FAR more convincing than in PES. You see lots of different types of shot coming off in FIFA.

 

[Peter Withe]

I'm not sure why I have to play a particular mode butbive started one as Wigan, won 1 nil in first game and had 7 freekicks

You can play whatever mode you want of course.

But my point remains the same: for those of us who bought the game solely for Master League, the scripting/cheat code/whatever you want to call it - is game breaking at times. It’s not just me that notices it - why would I make something like that up? Take a look at various forums, Twitter and Reddit; LOTS of players are sick and tired of the team spirit/script ruining the gameplay in Master League.

Sure, the game plays better in the cup modes where the AI doesn’t ramp up the script. But I don’t want to spend £40 on a game to play cup games for an entire year, it’s not 1998 anymore.

PES 2020 has a shed load of issues on and off the pitch, just like FIFA does. I’ve noticed a lot of people around here scoff at FIFA and praise PES like one is a big joke whilst the other is some kind of ‘masterpiece’ when in all honestly both games should and could be a million times better than they are.

 

[Chuny]

You can play whatever mode you want of course.

But my point remains the same: for those of us who bought the game solely for Master League, the scripting/cheat code/whatever you want to call it - is game breaking at times. It’s not just me that notices it - why would I make something like that up? Take a look at various forums, Twitter and Reddit; LOTS of players are sick and tired of the team spirit/script ruining the gameplay in Master League.

Sure, the game plays better in the cup modes where the AI doesn’t ramp up the script. But I don’t want to spend £40 on a game to play cup games for an entire year, it’s not 1998 anymore.

PES 2020 has a shed load of issues on and off the pitch, just like FIFA does. I’ve noticed a lot of people around here scoff at FIFA and praise PES like one is a big joke whilst the other is some kind of ‘masterpiece’ when in all honestly both games should and could be a million times better than they are.

It's all about personal tastes.
There are plenty of people in the FIFA thread that have never set foot in the PES thread. And vice versa.

Given that this is a PES-dedicated site for the most part, the last bit of your post is kind of an understatement.
Same thing if you went to Soccergaming forum, people don't ever even mention PES. And would probably laugh at any one who said that PES plays a lot more like actual football.

Personally, I do think that this year PES has surpassed FIFA, in the gameplay. In the pace of the match, In the fluidity of the animations. In the transitions and in the life-likeness of the movement.

But looking forward, I feel there's a very fine line. If EA stopped sucking up to Frostbite and decided move forward and look for something entirely new specially created for and dedicated to the FIFA series, they could destroy PES....
Everybody keeps talking about PES and Unreal Engine which a)Has never been officially confirmed. b)We don't know how good or bad PES could turn out to be on that engine. There has never been a football game produced using it. So it's all speculation. And we all know Konami's history when switching to a new engine.

 

[rojofa]

I just had a quick look through some videos of FIFA on Youtube, and the variety of goals and shots is such a breath of fresh air after playing PES. Dipping and rising shots happening fully contextually, not because of scripted player traits like in PES... Swerving shots as well when hitting across the ball.

This kind of shot would never happen in PES 2020

I'm not saying FIFA is a better game overall, I can't stand playing it due to the dreadful passing physics and ultra responsive/weightless feeling of the players, but the shooting variety is lightyears ahead...

 

[Saint Angelo]

I look through this thread and ho,nestly it should be FIFA vs PES vs PS2 PES thread or something.

Take a shot from 25 meters in PES 2020. Then do the same in PES 3 to 6. Yes 20 looks super realistic and is a perfect passing simulator, it's not that bad until you enter a penalty box.

One thing you won't get for sure is a penalty.

To be frank arguments and debates elude me at this hour I'm about to go to sleep, but if PES 2020 reminded me of something it's how much I miss old PES. I got like ten or eleven seasons of ML in PES3 last summer despite being horribly OP and scoring 120 goals a season it was such a delightful game.

Yes, PS2 PES is simple. Yes it has eight directions only hahaha how funny. It's old as fuck, and arcade, and too Japanese, and not enough teams...but it's balanced. What of the modern sophisticated football simulators (lol!) if they literally need scripts and momentums to, apparently, keep you engaged? What of the seventeen million feints and tricks if they don't even work properly?

This ingenious simplicity was lost and now, amidst flood of literal shite will never be recovered. So enjoy seeing your defender taking ten steps and doing 720 degree turn before controlling him! I don't.

FIFA wouldn't be the worst but players always feel like paper clips, I will admit though I have a positive opinion about FIFA 16 online (offline sucks always) same as few other peoples here. Otherwise, shite.

No need to rant for now though. I will be looking into some gud laptop now. I have many ideas to level the playing field in PES6 (or maybe 5?) ML, make it last longer, make it more demanding. Laugh all you want, call me an old, grumpy man stuck in the days gone by, but PS2 PES is simple and it works, and it will always stand I just need to get my hands on the editor!

I might elaborate later, and forgive me being sudden and perhaps rude, but I had to let it out, I had to let it be known. Not to mention I simply feel embarassed af, I literally got ps4 (pro!!!!!!!!) to play this pes, took the bait, wasted money and just bamboozled myself. Same happened with 2015, 16, 17 and 18. Once you get over the minimal improvements, you realize it's the same damn thing.

Oh well, at least switch is nice. Throwing pokeballs in let's go eevee provides me with better football experience than modern PES/FIFA, having to wave your hand to throw a ball is like super-manual, PA -1 passing

also eevee is a c00t.


tl;dr modern football games are bad / you will never get a football simulator / well-balanced arcade football games blow anything else out of the water as in PS2 PES > all the rest

 

[hitmanuk]

I look through this thread and ho,nestly it should be FIFA vs PES vs PS2 PES thread or something.

Take a shot from 25 meters in PES 2020. Then do the same in PES 3 to 6. Yes 20 looks super realistic and is a perfect passing simulator, it's not that bad until you enter a penalty box.

One thing you won't get for sure is a penalty.

To be frank arguments and debates elude me at this hour I'm about to go to sleep, but if PES 2020 reminded me of something it's how much I miss old PES. I got like ten or eleven seasons of ML in PES3 last summer despite being horribly OP and scoring 120 goals a season it was such a delightful game.

Yes, PS2 PES is simple. Yes it has eight directions only hahaha how funny. It's old as fuck, and arcade, and too Japanese, and not enough teams...but it's balanced. What of the modern sophisticated football simulators (lol!) if they literally need scripts and momentums to, apparently, keep you engaged? What of the seventeen million feints and tricks if they don't even work properly?

This ingenious simplicity was lost and now, amidst flood of literal shite will never be recovered. So enjoy seeing your defender taking ten steps and doing 720 degree turn before controlling him! I don't.

FIFA wouldn't be the worst but players always feel like paper clips, I will admit though I have a positive opinion about FIFA 16 online (offline sucks always) same as few other peoples here. Otherwise, shite.

No need to rant for now though. I will be looking into some gud laptop now. I have many ideas to level the playing field in PES6 (or maybe 5?) ML, make it last longer, make it more demanding. Laugh all you want, call me an old, grumpy man stuck in the days gone by, but PS2 PES is simple and it works, and it will always stand I just need to get my hands on the editor!

I might elaborate later, and forgive me being sudden and perhaps rude, but I had to let it out, I had to let it be known. Not to mention I simply feel embarassed af, I literally got ps4 (pro!!!!!!!!) to play this pes, took the bait, wasted money and just bamboozled myself. Same happened with 2015, 16, 17 and 18. Once you get over the minimal improvements, you realize it's the same damn thing.

Oh well, at least switch is nice. Throwing pokeballs in let's go eevee provides me with better football experience than modern PES/FIFA, having to wave your hand to throw a ball is like super-manual, PA -1 passing

also eevee is a c00t.


tl;dr modern football games are bad / you will never get a football simulator / well-balanced arcade football games blow anything else out of the water as in PS2 PES > all the rest

Penalties need to be increased but ive had two since latest patch using right stick to beat defenders and had about 6 over all

 

[Madmac79]

But looking forward, I feel there's a very fine line. If EA stopped sucking up to Frostbite and decided move forward and look for something entirely new specially created for and dedicated to the FIFA series, they could destroy PES....

I probably keep repeating myself on the matter, but if the focus stays the current one (aka making happy blitzball players with their 200 km/h, no fouls attacking oriented games), I don't exactly understand how another engine would help Fifa where it needs the most..

You'd have maybe less glitches and bugs, and more polishing in some other sense, but the same general awful direction.. no?

 

[Emroth]

You'd have maybe less glitches and bugs, and more polishing in some other sense, but the same general awful direction.. no?

I suppose it would be easier to stomach..
I, personally, cant stand Fifa graphics.. i know a lot of people say it looks beautiful and its 100% personal perception.. but I think it looks absolutely horrendous..
So if they brought new engine and had all the basics covered - collisions, fouls, acceptable ball physics, weight of the players, graphics - I could adjust the rest with sliders. Slow things down, add more error.

But sliders wont help me at its current state. I know I wont be able to fix the issues that I have with this game. Thats why, for the first time in good few years, I didnt buy it.

 

[Madmac79]

I suppose it would be easier to stomach..
I, personally, cant stand Fifa graphics.. i know a lot of people say it looks beautiful and its 100% personal perception.. but I think it looks absolutely horrendous..
So if they brought new engine and had all the basics covered - collisions, fouls, acceptable ball physics, weight of the players, graphics - I could adjust the rest with sliders. Slow things down, add more error.

But sliders wont help me at its current state. I know I wont be able to fix the issues that I have with this game. Thats why, for the first time in good few years, I didnt buy it.

Oh but on that I completely agree. I find that the gradual "plasticity" (don't know how else to call it) that gradually enveloped Fifa since 17 onwards, last year reached an off-putting level I'd personally be capable to endure only with a much, much better gameplay than the current one. So ok, it certainly would be wonderful to finally see improvements in that.

But if at the core the gameplay is still balanced towards not having fouls, towards encouraging (sigh) one v ones in spite of a more balanced tactical aware of the AI, and so on and so forth.. I think sliders at least in their current incarnation can't do miracles.

Then if with the new engine they'd also come out with some foul level slider, some rythm slider, some tactical awareness and aggression slider (which wouldn't bug other stuff if tweaked, let me add).. would be another matter .

 

[geeeeee]

I thought i would compare both games by starting a career as Tottenham in FIFA and ML in PES.

Only played one game in PES, but against Everton and i lost 3-0 with two free kicks scored against me. That is a bit annoying straight away as i have read about CPU free kicks being pretty much a guaranteed goal.

Played 2 games in FIFA, i lost against Villa in the first match which was an okish game although it was faster than i remember from playing CL games earlier. The second match was against Man City and they completely dominated me and won 3-0. I don't mind losing but when it was 0-0 they hit the woodwork 3 times when it was easier to score something that i know happens quite a lot in past FIFA’s. Also a couple of times they were show boating which was stupid because at one point it was 1-0 to them and Jesus was through on goal but decided to flick it up to volley but hit it straight at the keeper, rather than just slot it passed the keeper. Is that because of the whole Volta thing? I felt that I was playing kids online.

Didn't have any joy playing both games last night. But will no doubt keep playing but will also get my footy fix from retro PES2008 PS2