FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

I've finally come to grips with the fact that there will never be another football game which enchantment and charm last all year long for me.
I understand it. And now that I do, I can finally be OK with it.

Realized, it's not my fault for falling in the same trap again and again. It's not that my expectations are too high and neither company will ever match them.

When Konami put out PES' demo and then the full game, the first couple of months, I'm usually like "This is amazing! I will never get tired of playing this. Then boom! Fast forward 4 months and I'm not even playing it occasionally.

With FIFA, it's usually the inverted process. With every demo, every game, it always feels underwhelming. Feels and looks the same. But eventually, after a couple of months I start to get more and more into it, slowly.

Eventually, both games bore me and annoy me, so I leave them there and only play one or the other once or twice a month.

I'm not even remotely excited or even waiting for any sort of news related to either game.

At this point, the only thing that could get me a little hyped up is if Konami or EA announced they're moving to a new engine for the next version of the game, Otherwise, I'll probably end up buying both games anyway, but at least now I know that both games get really old after 2-3 months. Sometimes one wears off quicker than the other.

I won't be fooled again.
 
Chuny said:
I've finally come to grips with the fact that there will never be another football game which enchantment and charm last all year long for me.
I understand it. And now that I do, I can finally be OK with it.

Realized, it's not my fault for falling in the same trap again and again. It's not that my expectations are too high and neither company will ever match them.

When Konami put out PES' demo and then the full game, the first couple of months, I'm usually like "This is amazing! I will never get tired of playing this. Then boom! Fast forward 4 months and I'm not even playing it occasionally.

With FIFA, it's usually the inverted process. With every demo, every game, it always feels underwhelming. Feels and looks the same. But eventually, after a couple of months I start to get more and more into it, slowly.

Eventually, both games bore me and annoy me, so I leave them there and only play one or the other once or twice a month.

I'm not even remotely excited or even waiting for any sort of news related to either game.

At this point, the only thing that could get me a little hyped up is if Konami or EA announced they're moving to a new engine for the next version of the game, Otherwise, I'll probably end up buying both games anyway, but at least now I know that both games get really old after 2-3 months. Sometimes one wears off quicker than the other.

I won't be fooled again.
Click to expand...
Ι am not sure if engine or hardware is the answer to footy problems. FIFAs engine is 3 years old only and on PES the "messiah engine" everyone is waiting for , aka UNREAL ENGINE, looks good for games like Frontnine but i do not know if it applies good in football games. The only games i have played with Unreal Engine are Marvel VS Capcom infinite and Dragonball FighterZ, which are not representative games for engine's potential, since they are 2D fighting games.

For the PES mobile that uses the Unreal engine, i cannot define from my mobile phone cause the screen is too small and from the hundred time si asked about how does the PES mobile plays, i have never got an answer, cause probably the PES mobile is more an online mini-casino and most players do not care about gameplay, since i have never seen someone reviewing the mobiles's gameplay.
 
slamsoze said:
Ι am not sure if engine or hardware is the answer to footy problems. FIFAs engine is 3 years old only and on PES the "messiah engine" everyone is waiting for , aka UNREAL ENGINE, looks good for games like Frontnine but i do not know if it applies good in football games. The only games i have played with Unreal Engine are Marvel VS Capcom infinite and Dragonball FighterZ, which are not representative games for engine's potential, since they are 2D fighting games.

For the PES mobile that uses the Unreal engine, i cannot define from my mobile phone cause the screen is too small and from the hundred time si asked about how does the PES mobile plays, i have never got an answer, cause probably the PES mobile is more an online mini-casino and most players do not care about gameplay, since i have never seen someone reviewing the mobiles's gameplay.
Click to expand...

Well, FIFA started going downhill went they moved from Ignite to Frostbite, and pretty much every developer who has ever worked on games on Frostbite said it's a nightmare.
FOX Engine was created in 2014, and even if they updated it here and there over time, it's still a dated engine which wasn't even created specifically for sports game, so you can see how all these dots connect and lead to worse football games.
 
Chuny said:
Well, FIFA started going downhill went they moved from Ignite to Frostbite, and pretty much every developer who has ever worked on games on Frostbite said it's a nightmare.
FOX Engine was created in 2014, and even if they updated it here and there over time, it's still a dated engine which wasn't even created specifically for sports game, so you can see how all these dots connect and lead to worse football games.
Click to expand...
Chuny i do not disagree anywhere. I have not played Ignite FIFAs, but i trust all you in here.

My question is how better an UNREAL-updated PES plays than a FOXENGINE-outdated PES? And if next genPES moves to new engine are they going to UNREAL for sure, or they wil go with a cheap homebrew engine ala FOX engine?
 
I still enjoy pes 2020. I must be in the minority. Maybe it's being busy I only get to play maybe 3 or 4 hours a week combined so it doesn't grow old
 
hitmanuk said:
I still enjoy pes 2020. I must be in the minority. Maybe it's being busy I only get to play maybe 3 or 4 hours a week combined so it doesn't grow old
Click to expand...
I've played more Pes 20 lately than FIFA,same for me ,play about 3-4 games a week.
Can't see past the weird movement and skating on FIFA.
All other departments are in favour for FIFA ,but to me it's a massive game breaker.
 
So after crumbling and buying fifa it felt OK at first, some nice battles and goal mouth scrambles but then the ball physics start to nag. Why it bounces so heavily on normal passes is anyones guess. The only way to make it slightly better is reduce pass error and increase pass speed.
On top of that it feels like 10 individual players rarther than a team, link up play is not good at all

Anyway spent today trying to get the ball and players move like pes which speaks volumes.. I'll keep trying to next pes patch
 
hitmanuk said:
So after crumbling and buying fifa it felt OK at first, some nice battles and goal mouth scrambles but then the ball physics start to nag. Why it bounces so heavily on normal passes is anyones guess. The only way to make it slightly better is reduce pass error and increase pass speed.
On top of that it feels like 10 individual players rarther than a team, link up play is not good at all

Anyway spent today trying to get the ball and players move like pes which speaks volumes.. I'll keep trying to next pes patch
Click to expand...


That's a great description, 11 individual players, not a team. It's so hard to get players associating with each other. It happens once a game, is amazing and then not again.

Then you go back to pes and the game as a whole is more living organism. Not the ball physics but the movement of players. The way they bunch and spread.

Play as Napoli using klashman tactics and the interplay is extraordinary. Light years ahead of what you get with Napoli on fifa.

I really like fifa. Physics and movement though erratic are complex and free. But the inability to play good, improvised football is souring it for me.
As liverpool, it's almost impossible to play intricate football with real positional interchange.
I've also noticed how YouTube videos with sim-sliders, the matches end up looking very similar with identical moves. It's just fifas age old problem and it's such a damn shame..

If you avoid fifa, you become conditioned to pes ball physics and they become acceptable again...
 
majuh said:
Go back to the default sliders, the OS community sliders eliminate all player runs because the community doesn't want to see them for some reason.
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't eliminate runs completely at all. It lessens the amount of runs that are streaking ones, where no matter what they will start to run away from the player with the ball. When it's lowered, they check to the ball more, and when the manual runs are triggered, they follow the individual run tactics better.
 
Matt10 said:
No, it doesn't eliminate runs completely at all. It lessens the amount of runs that are streaking ones, where no matter what they will start to run away from the player with the ball. When it's lowered, they check to the ball more, and when the manual runs are triggered, they follow the individual run tactics better.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I don't see this behaviour with the default sliders, but then again it probably depends on your match length. With shorter matches, the pace simply needs to be faster, and a lot of you are playing with 15-20 min halves.
 
majuh said:
To be honest, I don't see this behaviour with the default sliders, but then again it probably depends on your match length. With shorter matches, the pace simply needs to be faster, and a lot of you are playing with 15-20 min halves.
Click to expand...

You are on an assumption streak, mate. I play 10 min halves. The sliders work with the lowest minutes at about 8, but others can use it at 6.

Yes, lower minutes need more action, naturally, but just like any game out there, it is about a balance of realism vs difficulty. You can definitely raise run frequency, which is a very easy recommendation that I go to.

Anyway, this isn't about sliders but more so you are making assumptions that we all play 15 min matches and we don't care about player runs. Couldn't be further from the truth - so I thought the record should be straightened out a bit.
 
Chuny said:
I've finally come to grips with the fact that there will never be another football game which enchantment and charm last all year long for me.
I understand it. And now that I do, I can finally be OK with it.

Realized, it's not my fault for falling in the same trap again and again. It's not that my expectations are too high and neither company will ever match them.

When Konami put out PES' demo and then the full game, the first couple of months, I'm usually like "This is amazing! I will never get tired of playing this. Then boom! Fast forward 4 months and I'm not even playing it occasionally.

With FIFA, it's usually the inverted process. With every demo, every game, it always feels underwhelming. Feels and looks the same. But eventually, after a couple of months I start to get more and more into it, slowly.

Eventually, both games bore me and annoy me, so I leave them there and only play one or the other once or twice a month.

I'm not even remotely excited or even waiting for any sort of news related to either game.

At this point, the only thing that could get me a little hyped up is if Konami or EA announced they're moving to a new engine for the next version of the game, Otherwise, I'll probably end up buying both games anyway, but at least now I know that both games get really old after 2-3 months. Sometimes one wears off quicker than the other.

I won't be fooled again.
Click to expand...

Can we set a reminder on this statement for August/September? :D
 
Matt10 said:
You are on an assumption streak, mate. I play 10 min halves. The sliders work with the lowest minutes at about 8, but others can use it at 6.

Yes, lower minutes need more action, naturally, but just like any game out there, it is about a balance of realism vs difficulty. You can definitely raise run frequency, which is a very easy recommendation that I go to.

Anyway, this isn't about sliders but more so you are making assumptions that we all play 15 min matches and we don't care about player runs. Couldn't be further from the truth - so I thought the record should be straightened out a bit.
Click to expand...
  1. I said that a lot of you are playing with 15-20 min halves. I didn't say everybody is playing with 15-20 min halves. By the way, I'm playing with 5 min halves, so your matches are still twice as long as mine.
  2. Yes, in my opinion, the OS community sliders make player movements so static with the default match length that even in real life managers would go like this:
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Can we set a reminder on this statement for August/September? :D
Click to expand...
Yeah, we all do it. There's no point denying it. Rather than say we'll never do it again, let's all just say "I know I'll do it again and that's okay". :D

FIFA is currently dead to me. Running back and forth between boxes unimpeded. The physics etc. are great (with caveats) but I now accept there's just no build-up play and the broken defensive AI (which they've done on purpose, and they announced as a new feature for fuck's sake) ruins the game all over the pitch.

I'll always maintain that sliders make it a better game. But this year, they don't improve it anywhere near enough. It's too far gone.

I'm back on PES until it starts to annoy me too much. It already annoys me, with its "lorry doing a three-point-turn" response issues, with all my goals being the same, with the AI doing the same stupid things all the time* (which they get away with).

But fully licensed on PC (God I love modders, they deserve so much love from Konami for making their horribly generic game beautiful again)... With build-up play (my God I love the satisfaction of creating a chance)... It's good. It's horrifically out-of-date but it's still good.

...and importantly, that's as good as it will ever get for us. Online will only make things worse from now on. So I'm trying to enjoy this for as long as I can, and I'll try next year too.

My only glimmer of hope is when they rebuild the games (probably not this year, but maybe next year) for the new consoles. Then they have to improve the AI. Surely. Even if it's just so that one of them (FIFA or PES) can brag about it as the big, new, better-than-the-other-game feature.

*The AI in PES is genuinely terrible. I don't know how anyone can defend it. There are a million examples, but like my issues with "Team Spirit" it's so binary that it's a joke. When you go 1-0 up against a team you're not supposed to beat, they will score instantly, hitting first-time insta-passes around like pinball and smashing in a goal within a (real-life) minute of you scoring.

Every kick-off, there's a 50% chance the AI will pass back and forth between the kicking-off player, and then he will do a 180-degree turn-kick and smash the ball back to the defenders like he's under huge pressure... For no reason. Which is similar to when they get an easy one-on-one, then turn and smash the ball backwards to someone surrounded by defenders. Yet, when they need a goal, they're cyberfootballers from the future with heat-seeking missile-balls.
 
majuh said:
  1. I said that a lot of you are playing with 15-20 min halves. I didn't say everybody is playing with 15-20 min halves. By the way, I'm playing with 5 min halves, so your matches are still twice as long as mine.
  2. Yes, in my opinion, the OS community sliders make player movements so static with the default match length that even in real life managers would go like this:
Click to expand...

Yeah, wouldn't recommend the sliders with 5 minute halves.

What is default match length? If it's 5 minutes, then no, the sliders do not apply. You're giving an opinion on the set but ignoring some of the most important elements as to why the values were chosen in the first place. What is the point?

Plenty of movement off the ball in this video. I would hope they'd stop running in streaks though because stamina would get drained dramatically.

 
Matt10 said:
Yeah, wouldn't recommend the sliders with 5 minute halves.

What is default match length? If it's 5 minutes, then no, the sliders do not apply. You're giving an opinion on the set but ignoring some of the most important elements as to why the values were chosen in the first place. What is the point?

Plenty of movement off the ball in this video. I would hope they'd stop running in streaks though because stamina would get drained dramatically.

Click to expand...
Have to admit, that looks a lot better than my average game at the minute. But I'm playing in the EPL, with an average team. Is it that the best leagues in the world just play like pinball and there's nothing to be done to fix it?
 
Chris Davies said:
Have to admit, that looks a lot better than my average game at the minute. But I'm playing in the EPL, with an average team. Is it that the best leagues in the world just play like pinball and there's nothing to be done to fix it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, something seems embedded for the EPL teams, or playing teams like Bayern or Dortmund. I hate how FIFA has created defensive pressure, that basically focuses on the player with the ball versus their intended recepients. I've found that resetting player instructions to default for both user and CPU (two controllers) has seemed to normalize things a bit more. I just haven't had enough time to test to the amount I'd like to though.
 
Matt10 said:
Yeah, wouldn't recommend the sliders with 5 minute halves.

What is default match length? If it's 5 minutes, then no, the sliders do not apply. You're giving an opinion on the set but ignoring some of the most important elements as to why the values were chosen in the first place. What is the point?
Click to expand...
The demo always uses 4 min halves, online matches use 6 min halves. I'm not even sure what the default setting for singleplayer matches in the full game is, but it must be between 4 and 6 min halves.

The point is that someone in this thread bought the game, immediately applied the OS community sliders and then complained that his AI teammates don't make any meaningful runs. In my opinion, you always need to play the game with default sliders first to see what the developers intended, and then you can think about slider changes.
 
Just gonna jump in here for a second..
Yall do know that Fifa has instructions to call for players to get closer to you, or to make them run, right?
I get that by default it might feel stale at times, but you do have control over what your team mates do as well.. and when you get used to use them - the flow is not too bad..

Now I know some might say it should be a natural flow within the game itself, but following the same logic - I shouldnt have to use Supercancel in Pes to defend or wake my players up..

Maybe you are all already using these - I dont know. But there are ways around, same as Pes have ways around some issues.

As for the rest of the posts - Im with Chuny - enough is enough.
Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me... ah god damn it! :LOL:
 
Emroth said:
Just gonna jump in here for a second..
Yall do know that Fifa has instructions to call for players to get closer to you, or to make them run, right?
I get that by default it might feel stale at times, but you do have control over what your team mates do as well.. and when you get used to use them - the flow is not too bad..

Now I know some might say it should be a natural flow within the game itself, but following the same logic - I shouldnt have to use Supercancel in Pes to defend or wake my players up..

Maybe you are all already using these - I dont know. But there are ways around, same as Pes have ways around some issues.

As for the rest of the posts - Im with Chuny - enough is enough.
Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me... ah god damn it! :LOL:
Click to expand...


So with come short instructions, do you get a lot more close interaction between players? More give and go type football?
 
Matt10 said:
Yeah, wouldn't recommend the sliders with 5 minute halves.

What is default match length? If it's 5 minutes, then no, the sliders do not apply. You're giving an opinion on the set but ignoring some of the most important elements as to why the values were chosen in the first place. What is the point?

Plenty of movement off the ball in this video. I would hope they'd stop running in streaks though because stamina would get drained dramatically.

Click to expand...


Okay, that looks a far cry from I get with sliders set.
Is that using OS sliders? What's the half length?
It seems so much more alive...
 
FShas said:
So with come short instructions, do you get a lot more close interaction between players? More give and go type football?
Click to expand...
I had to start using them as I had same issue as you guys. I remember asking Matt how to inject some life into players and get some movement on the pitch. Increasing player runs just makes it more end to end football and I wanted some build up and some creativity. So I started heavily using Call for support and Call for runs buttons. Its awkward at first and half of the time you'll forget it, but it does help.
Also - individual player instructions help. If you spend some time and dig a bit deeper - its nowhere near as bad as on the default.

I know most people already know this, but some dont. And especially jumping from Pes to Fifa people might not realise that there's a lot of advanced controls in there, which do help.
 
majuh said:
The demo always uses 4 min halves, online matches use 6 min halves. I'm not even sure what the default setting for singleplayer matches in the full game is, but it must be between 4 and 6 min halves.

The point is that someone in this thread bought the game, immediately applied the OS community sliders and then complained that his AI teammates don't make any meaningful runs. In my opinion, you always need to play the game with default sliders first to see what the developers intended, and then you can think about slider changes.
Click to expand...
Gotcha, yes I agree, especially if you haven't played a game yet. FIFA 20 has a solid base, and it's important to see the slight tweaks that can be made to further improve it.
 
Emroth said:
I had to start using them as I had same issue as you guys. I remember asking Matt how to inject some life into players and get some movement on the pitch. Increasing player runs just makes it more end to end football and I wanted some build up and some creativity. So I started heavily using Call for support and Call for runs buttons. Its awkward at first and half of the time you'll forget it, but it does help.
Also - individual player instructions help. If you spend some time and dig a bit deeper - its nowhere near as bad as on the default.

I know most people already know this, but some dont. And especially jumping from Pes to Fifa people might not realise that there's a lot of advanced controls in there, which do help.
Click to expand...

This is something that, in the past, we did not consider as important and put a bit too much emphasis into sliders dominating the gameplay. This year, and probably last year, the custom team tactics (CTTs) and individual instructions are quite powerful. Pair that up with the ability to manually instruct your teammate AI, and there is just another layer to the game now.
 
Emroth said:
I had to start using them as I had same issue as you guys. I remember asking Matt how to inject some life into players and get some movement on the pitch. Increasing player runs just makes it more end to end football and I wanted some build up and some creativity. So I started heavily using Call for support and Call for runs buttons. Its awkward at first and half of the time you'll forget it, but it does help.
Also - individual player instructions help. If you spend some time and dig a bit deeper - its nowhere near as bad as on the default.

I know most people already know this, but some dont. And especially jumping from Pes to Fifa people might not realise that there's a lot of advanced controls in there, which do help.
Click to expand...


I had no idea there was a call for.support button!! What button is that?

Also, I can't find this anywhere, how do you cancel a button press? Like a powered up pass?
 
Mikhail said:
:LOL:

edit: actually it's not that funny - guy could have died! Don't mess with chicken, always cut it open and ensure it's piping hot in the middle.
Click to expand...
The funny thing is that no one believes it was bad chicken that made Guidetti disappear from football for a year,more a case of illegal substances...
 
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