FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

[Negatrev]

Yet it keeps selling more and more.


Exactly. In Fifa for example you have a driven long ball, driven through ball, fancy passes and a few other means of passing that don’t exist in PES (through ‘threaded through ball’ is just stupid and needs to go).

As a manual pass user. I'd appreciate a 'driven' modifier button (for various types of kick). However, I'm not sure where you would put the button at the moment? R1 is the dash and you want to be able to pick either type while sprinting. R2 is for finesse already. L1 is lofting through-ball or early cross or chipped shot and L2 is the manual modifier.

Perhaps double tap of pass/cross/through ball should be driven and then you would need to triple-tap for a cross along the ground?

I'm sure that's how you did crosses in some football game at some point anyway?

 

[ad_]

As a manual pass user. I'd appreciate a 'driven' modifier button (for various types of kick). However, I'm not sure where you would put the button at the moment? R1 is the dash and you want to be able to pick either type while sprinting. R2 is for finesse already. L1 is lofting through-ball or early cross or chipped shot and L2 is the manual modifier.

Perhaps double tap of pass/cross/through ball should be driven and then you would need to triple-tap for a cross along the ground?

I'm sure that's how you did crosses in some football game at some point anyway?

Just get rid of the manual modifier and place it there. Also move sprinting to the triggers to make it analogue. I hate having to commit to sprinting being either 1 or 0. Analogue sprinting makes dribbling so dynamic, it's one of the best things in FIFA.

 

[Negatrev]

Just get rid of the manual modifier and place it there. Also move sprinting to the triggers to make it analogue. I hate having to commit to sprinting being either 1 or 0. Analogue sprinting makes dribbling so dynamic, it's one of the best things in FIFA.

But L2 is far more important to most players than a 'driven' button. Even if you are playing on full manual, it still makes a difference. Also, I'd prefer analogue sprinting was done based on how far you move the analogue stick. The whole thing in Fifa of sprint working like an accelerator pedal always felt off to me. Leaning the stick further also makes more sense because that's literally what you do with your body when you run faster; you lean further over.
I in fact would prefer that R1 was just for controlling when you push the ball further from yourself and sprint just happened on full LS lock. But that's almost definitely just me!

 

[ad_]

But L2 is far more important to most players than a 'driven' button. Even if you are playing on full manual, it still makes a difference.

I've noticed that, too. Players make quicker turns. So stupid really...

Also, I'd prefer analogue sprinting was done based on how far you move the analogue stick. The whole thing in Fifa of sprint working like an accelerator pedal always felt off to me. Leaning the stick further also makes more sense because that's literally what you do with your body when you run faster; you lean further over.
I in fact would prefer that R1 was just for controlling when you push the ball further from yourself and sprint just happened on full LS lock. But that's almost definitely just me!

That's actually a pretty neat idea, too, but I fear it would drain the energy way too quickly.

 

[Negatrev]

I've noticed that, too. Players make quicker turns. So stupid really...

Well, also I feel it is MORE manual than without it even on PA0. It might just be related to the turnign circle, but I suspect it's something in the coding hasn't been bridged between the new default for PA0 and what L2 does.

That's actually a pretty neat idea, too, but I fear it would drain the energy way too quickly.

Well, people new to it would certainly do so until they learned not to sprint all the time!
It's high time we had more games that actually used the full range of motion of the stick (not just on/off in degrees of a circle). Some of the physics based games (Like Human Fall Flat) use analogue sticks to their true potential for character movement

 

[OBH]

As a manual pass user. I'd appreciate a 'driven' modifier button (for various types of kick). However, I'm not sure where you would put the button at the moment? R1 is the dash and you want to be able to pick either type while sprinting. R2 is for finesse already. L1 is lofting through-ball or early cross or chipped shot and L2 is the manual modifier.

Perhaps double tap of pass/cross/through ball should be driven and then you would need to triple-tap for a cross along the ground?

I'm sure that's how you did crosses in some football game at some point anyway?

I've mentioned it before that I believe Fifa has a much more intuitive & layered control scheme.

By that I mean - when a button does more than one thing, they're both things that make perfect sense to be used together. For example, L2/LT is both shielding the ball, and finesse pass. This makes perfect sense because one is never going to interfere with the other. If anything, while you're holding off players is an ideal time to attempt such a pass.

By contrast, some of the control changes from PES 2019 to 20 baffle me. Why move 'let the ball run in between your legs' from R1 to R2 when a number of skills have also been moved to R2? It makes no sense because both also require you to let go of the left stick, so all this change does is opens up more opportunity to accidentally do something you had no intention of doing.

PES also makes no use of holding multiple shoulder buttons at once except for super cancel. Which is dumb because it's an excellent way to introduce controls, and FAR better than double-tapping. A low shot in Fifa is L1 + R1 and shoot. That is a perfectly sensible way to introduce a low shot: R1 is already finesse shot, and L1 is chip shot - they're both already associated with shooting so they're familiar, and there's no current situation in which you'd be holding these two buttons together already - This is good control design.

So, to answer your original question "I'm not sure where you would put the button at the moment?" In my opinion, it should be something like this:

Crucially, get rid of finesse dribble from the right stick. Remember how it used to be R2 in 2019? Instead, go one further and make it both R2 & L2 (Basically exactly the same as Fifa's finesse dribble used to be), this would free up the right stick to be used exclusively for skills again, and R2 could now be your new 'driven' pass/shot modifier.

(Because my actual job in real life is to do with optimisation I go all-out-geek about this stuff! )

 

[Negatrev]

I've mentioned it before that I believe Fifa has a much more intuitive & layered control scheme.

By that I mean - when a button does more than one thing, they're both things that make perfect sense to be used together. For example, L2/LT is both shielding the ball, and finesse pass. This makes perfect sense because one is never going to interfere with the other. If anything, while you're holding off players is an ideal time to attempt such a pass.

R2 is also finesse dribble and finesse shot/pass in PES which makes as much (if not more) sense.

By contrast, some of the control changes from PES 2019 to 20 baffle me. Why move 'let the ball run in between your legs' from R1 to R2 when a number of skills have also been moved to R2? It makes no sense because both also require you to let go of the left stick, so all this change does is opens up more opportunity to accidentally do something you had no intention of doing.

Actually, I entirely disagree with you on this one. I love this change. With it being R2, at any time during the animation of it running past you/between your legs, you can decide to move LS and you take a touch at that point. It allows you to choose exactly at what part of the pass you decide to take your touch, allowing you to make more space with a defender right on you. You can even go straight into a finesse shot. You couldn't do this interrupt touch on R1, it always made the full animation finish.

PES also makes no use of holding multiple shoulder buttons at once except for super cancel. Which is dumb because it's an excellent way to introduce controls, and FAR better than double-tapping. A low shot in Fifa is L1 + R1 and shoot. That is a perfectly sensible way to introduce a low shot: R1 is already finesse shot, and L1 is chip shot - they're both already associated with shooting so they're familiar, and there's no current situation in which you'd be holding these two buttons together already - This is good control design.

I might like a 'low shot' button. But I feel that is exactly how a 'driven' button would modify the shoot command (as we only talked above about how it should alter pass/cross/throughball).

So, to answer your original question "I'm not sure where you would put the button at the moment?" In my opinion, it should be something like this:

Crucially, get rid of finesse dribble from the right stick. Remember how it used to be R2 in 2019? Instead, go one further and make it both R2 & L2 (Basically exactly the same as Fifa's finesse dribble used to be), this would free up the right stick to be used exclusively for skills again, and R2 could now be your new 'driven' pass/shot modifier.

(Because my actual job in real life is to do with optimisation I go all-out-geek about this stuff! )

Again, I really like RS how it is. It's intuitive about what will result from each press and is essentially a shift in ball/weight that is separate from LS which you can combine for natural 'weaves'. Plus if you unlock certain traits, you get a different effect (albeit with similar position result) for specific combinations.

 

[OBH]

R2 is also finesse dribble and finesse shot/pass in PES which makes as much (if not more) sense.

Don't you mean R2 WAS finesse dribble

That is exactly my point though, I loved having finesse dribble and finesse shot as the same button, that is excellent control design - do a little sidestep inside the defender and curl it into the top corner, all while using just one button - perfect.

Did you know Fifa's jockey button is also shirt tug? (here's a controls list) That's genius! Jockey them, and if they go past the defender you can pull their shirt without letting go. Much better than PES where it's exactly the same controls as tackle and if you're too far away you stick a leg out into thin air like an idiot (not that you need to shirt tug mind you because pressure is so OP).

Again, I really like RS how it is. It's intuitive about what will result from each press and is essentially a shift in ball/weight that is separate from LS which you can combine for natural 'weaves'. Plus if you unlock certain traits, you get a different effect (albeit with similar position result) for specific combinations.

By any chance do you still have PES 2019?
If so, just for the sake of science (), fire it up, and just spam the R2 finesse dribble.
Then afterwards, come back to 2020, use the new finesse dribble and tell me ONE thing that has been improved by the change? Just one. I don't mean a 'change', but a genuine improvement on the old system.

All they've done is remapped the controls and dubbed it a 'feature'. But by changing the controls they've 1) broken basic skills such as step overs by making them pointlessly awkward to do because they now require the player to also hold R2 as well. It makes advanced skills require 2 controller inputs and basic ones need 4. It's ridiculous. And 2) It also breaks the finesse dribble / shot synergy you mentioned.

 

[Negatrev]

Don't you mean R2 WAS finesse dribble

That is exactly my point though, I loved having finesse dribble and finesse shot as the same button, that is excellent control design - do a little sidestep inside the defender and curl it into the top corner, all while using just one button - perfect.


By any chance do you still have PES 2019?
If so, just for the sake of science (), fire it up, and just spam the R2 finesse dribble.
Then afterwards, come back to 2020, use the new finesse dribble and tell me ONE thing that has been improved by the change? Just one. I don't mean a 'change', but a genuine improvement on the old system.

All they've done is remapped the controls and dubbed it a 'feature'. But by changing the controls they've 1) broken basic skills such as step overs by making them pointlessly awkward to do because they now require the player to also hold R2 as well. It makes advanced skills require 2 controller inputs and basic ones need 4. It's ridiculous. And 2) It also breaks the finesse dribble / shot synergy you mentioned.

The R2 dribbling has changed (thanks Iniesta), it doesn't stop it still being a way for finesse dribbling. Dribbling is harder than it used to be (especially doing away with a lot of the auto-dribble stuff) but it's still all there.

 

[mfmaxpower]

After playing the Early Access version of FIFA, I thought for sure FIFA 20 was going to be a no go for me. But I'm actually really enjoying the release version.

So both games are pretty even in gameplay IMO, though I'd likely give PES a minor edge. Thing is, I just find FIFA more engaging, exciting... and, well just fun. A big part of that is dribbling is awesome in FIFA (and actually a challenge this year) whereas I kinda hate PES's system. And the control settings. And the variety in FIFA... just wow. The other thing for me, is that while PES's gameplay is set up to be an excellent tactical battle, the actual tactical system isn't up to par with gameplay. They must overhaul this IMO. PES's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness.

And then of course, FIFA just crushes PES with all the non-gameplay stuff.

I look forward to the PES gameplay patch, whenever that happens. I could see myself really getting into it if FIFA grows old or too frustrating, or if CM isn't fixed. IMO we have two solid choices, in terms of gameplay, but both have substantial issues keeping them from being great.

 

[Chris Davies]

After playing the Early Access version of FIFA, I thought for sure FIFA 20 was going to be a no go for me. But I'm actually really enjoying the release version.

So both games are pretty even in gameplay IMO, though I'd likely give PES a minor edge. Thing is, I just find FIFA more engaging, exciting... and, well just fun. A big part of that is dribbling is awesome in FIFA (and actually a challenge this year) whereas I kinda hate PES's system. And the control settings. And the variety in FIFA... just wow. The other thing for me, is that while PES's gameplay is set up to be an excellent tactical battle, the actual tactical system isn't up to par with gameplay. They must overhaul this IMO. PES's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness.

And then of course, FIFA just crushes PES with all the non-gameplay stuff.

I look forward to the PES gameplay patch, whenever that happens. I could see myself really getting into it if FIFA grows old or too frustrating, or if CM isn't fixed. IMO we have two solid choices, in terms of gameplay, but both have substantial issues keeping them from being great.

Can't disagree with most of this. I love the feeling of build-up in PES but unlike most people here (it would seem), I just can't get past my passing move being brought to an end by my player ignoring my button press for too long, or being bounced off the ball like a sumo wrestler belly-bashing a toddler into oblivion. It's soul-destroying.

But then it feels like an achievement to create a chance - in FIFA I don't feel that at all. I'm playing v1.02 like you and yes the AI presses but I'm not passing around for a few (in-game) minutes trying to find a gap, I'm passing around for a few seconds - or through-balling to a winger - and I find a gap and I'm in on goal. There's no joy in that, to me.

FIFA has definitely got harder - but I don't like Legendary/Ultimate now because their attacking play is so fake and ping-pongy, which is exacerbated by the physics from another dimension and the rubber bones players have. So I dropped it down to World Class and I've had two decent games - but I still feel no achievement from anything I do.

But then, I feel nothing when scoring in PES either, sometimes. If it's a chance I've worked hard for, I'll celebrate. But sometimes your shot doesn't seem like your own - I've scored goals where I've aimed left of the keeper and the striker has put it to his right, on basic shooting - and you realise PES is built on smoke and mirrors, in so many ways...

...#1 being that Top Player and above change the gameplay so that your players become sluggish and begin to pass straight to the opponent - the biggest shock in recent football gaming history, for me, was playing Professional on PES 2020 and "feeling" an absolute universe of difference, it feels like you're playing PES 2021 and they've finally fixed PES's problems of the past ten years. Then it sinks in that you're seeing "behind the curtain", you're seeing what the game is like before it fucks you over for the sake of difficulty, and... I'm left feeling scammed.

Since that moment, I've found it hard to enjoy PES, because I know I'm not playing a simulation and that my players are being handicapped. What's the point if it's not a fair competition. But given that I can't enjoy FIFA either...

...it's Football Manager for me this year I think...

 

[mfmaxpower]

Can't disagree with most of this. I love the feeling of build-up in PES but unlike most people here (it would seem), I just can't get past my passing move being brought to an end by my player ignoring my button press for too long, or being bounced off the ball like a sumo wrestler belly-bashing a toddler into oblivion. It's soul-destroying.

But then it feels like an achievement to create a chance - in FIFA I don't feel that at all. I'm playing v1.02 like you and yes the AI presses but I'm not passing around for a few (in-game) minutes trying to find a gap, I'm passing around for a few seconds - or through-balling to a winger - and I find a gap and I'm in on goal. There's no joy in that, to me.

FIFA has definitely got harder - but I don't like Legendary/Ultimate now because their attacking play is so fake and ping-pongy, which is exacerbated by the physics from another dimension and the rubber bones players have. So I dropped it down to World Class and I've had two decent games - but I still feel no achievement from anything I do.

But then, I feel nothing when scoring in PES either, sometimes. If it's a chance I've worked hard for, I'll celebrate. But sometimes your shot doesn't seem like your own - I've scored goals where I've aimed left of the keeper and the striker has put it to his right, on basic shooting - and you realise PES is built on smoke and mirrors, in so many ways...

...#1 being that Top Player and above change the gameplay so that your players become sluggish and begin to pass straight to the opponent - the biggest shock in recent football gaming history, for me, was playing Professional on PES 2020 and "feeling" an absolute universe of difference, it feels like you're playing PES 2021 and they've finally fixed PES's problems of the past ten years. Then it sinks in that you're seeing "behind the curtain", you're seeing what the game is like before it fucks you over for the sake of difficulty, and... I'm left feeling scammed.

Since that moment, I've found it hard to enjoy PES, because I know I'm not playing a simulation and that my players are being handicapped. What's the point if it's not a fair competition. But given that I can't enjoy FIFA either...

...it's Football Manager for me this year I think...

Wait, you're scoring a bunch in FIFA? On Ultimate? Which team are using? I've gone scoreless now in 4 matches and I'm about to get fired from Palace lol. Show me what you're doing then cause I must just suck at this version of FIFA.

 

[Chris Davies]

Wait, you're scoring a bunch in FIFA? On Ultimate? Which team are using? I've gone scoreless now in 4 matches and I'm about to get fired from Palace lol. Show me what you're doing then cause I must just suck at this version of FIFA.

I'm not really "scoring a bunch", it's just that I do the same thing to create those opportunities and it usually works. I'm not thinking about anything I'm doing, because I don't have to. And when the AI have the ball, it's just... Well, take a look. When they *do* go on a scoring spree (and I've had that happen since the patch), it's not because they're playing amazing football. It's because your defenders turn off like they're defective robots. How's that acceptable?

You can't just say "ah that's just the way it is" and write it off as "one of those things", we're talking about fundamentals.

 

[mfmaxpower]

I'm not really "scoring a bunch", it's just that I do the same thing to create those opportunities and it usually works. I'm not thinking about anything I'm doing, because I don't have to. And when the AI have the ball, it's just... Well, take a look. When they *do* go on a scoring spree (and I've had that happen since the patch), it's not because they're playing amazing football. It's because your defenders turn off like they're defective robots. How's that acceptable?

You can't just say "ah that's just the way it is" and write it off as "one of those things", we're talking about fundamentals.

I'm not really sure what I'm suppose to be seeing with this. That goal you scored was really poor, totally agree about that. I'm now midway through a CM season, and I have had a couple of those, but they've been extremely rare. But if the CPU is as bad at defending as you've been saying in several posts, where are all the other goals and great chances? Show me blowouts against the CPU like you've been suggesting and then I'll get worried.

On the defensive side, the direction they've taken is to force you to defend and not rely on the AI... at all. I've already said I think they've gone too far, but it's hardly unacceptable. No offense, but it's clear from the video that you're still defending in the old way. (You really need to use L2+R2 jockey way more to close down; it's the key this year.) I think once you get more comfortable, you'll find that defending isn't as bad as it first seems. Or at least, it's not as inadequate and underpowered as it seems at first.

If the CPU is dominating you, it's not because the AI is just switching off - it's almost always because you've made a mistake. The game is brutal - IMO too brutal - at punishing the simplest player switching mistake, etc. but I've been reviewing all goals scored against me and I've rarely seen one that I couldn't have done something better. It would only be unacceptable if the defensive system was woefully inadequate, but compared to last year I'm finding SO fewer bullshit goals by the CPU, so IMO overall it's an improvement.

I've always been a manual defender, so I like this new direction, but I totally can see why the more sim guys - those who like to depend on the AI acting as they would in real life without our own control or direction to influence the game - would hate this. But overall, in terms of gaming fun and being a better overall experience, the game has really grown on me and I think it's an improvement. It's just the execution is inconsistent.

All I can say is that after despising the Early Access version, I'm now having a blast. I see others saying the same, so I just hope that maybe with a little more time with the game you might enjoy it too.

 

[Chris Davies]

Show me blowouts against the CPU like you've been suggesting and then I'll get worried.

I'm not trying to "get you worried". You're the one questioning me, because I don't like it. I'm just giving you my answers, for the purposes of discussion.

In my experience, I get the ball in midfield, through-ball to a winger and then there's a chance, most times. Sometimes I'll hit a cross that goes wrong, sometimes it results in a shot that's saved. But I'm not having to work, or think, to create an opportunity. (Since this is the comparison thread,) PES games I play will finish with 3-4 shots a side. On FIFA it can be 10 shots a side, and that's not better or worse in or of itself, but for that to be the case, there has to be very little effort in creating chances.

The AI in that video has no creativity, and they're dull to play against. Because they're a team of equal ability to mine - and that's a big part of my problem, teams of an equal ability to me are easily beaten, but I should still have to work to beat those teams. They move forward in a hive, and have a very high pass accuracy, but... Don't really do anything.

I played Tottenham in the next game, after edited their starting lineup (because initially I wondered why I was dominating them and then realised their average player rating was 68). Yes, it becomes much harder then - but not because they play with more intelligence or more skill in crucial moments. It gets harder because they do the impossible with their passing, never needing to take a touch in the final third, lasering balls at impossible speeds and first-timing them as well. It's further from replicating football and/or physics in general than I can remember a FIFA ever being.

I would defend FIFA 19 because, for all the floaty physics, it was clearly trying to simulate a lot of different things and spit out a lot of different outcomes, rather than pre-canning everything and making every pass, shot, deflection etc. exactly the same. But I was expecting this stuff to be developed over time. A year later, and Tottenham's players fly around like shopping bags in the wind, hitting series' of passes that hit each player's foot in quick succession like a pinball hitting the walls of a pipe. If there really is an improvement in physics, I'm blinded to it by this stuff.

Maybe the ball spin is better when a player brings the ball down out of the air, or when it hits the post - but if the above is still the case (and it absolutely is IMO) then what does it matter?

No offense, but it's clear from the video that you're still defending in the old way. (You really need to use L2+R2 jockey way more to close down; it's the key this year.)

Well, firstly - no offence taken, I'm not a great player and wouldn't ever say I am. But I don't concede in that video (IIRC), and don't tend to concede unless it's against those better teams - and when I do concede, I would say with some confidence that 50%+ of the time it's not because of my technique, it's because the ball is moved at lightning pace from one side of play to another and then a shot is lashed in before I've even been able to select anyone.

That is the crux of what I can't get past - the slidey, weightless players and the passes that move at impossible speeds... Shooting etc. is great but while every player feels like an Olympic runner on roller skates, I can't get used to it, and sliders don't have as much of an effect any more (to the point where I think it's a bug - line changes I've made seem to do very little).

I mean, did you see the bit I paused and replayed? Where my player has run past a ball, but starts moving backwards, towards the ball, as if he's being sucked into a vortex - hitting some kind of shrinking circular barrier around the ball as he moves? However it looks, I can tell you that the feel is that your player is being dragged backwards across ice, and I'm not even pushing the stick in that direction.

That happens to me 2-3 times a game, and every time it completely breaks the immersion for me. I honestly don't know how someone can feel that and continue to play it. I just don't.

When I read a post talking about how great the game is, except for the movement / statue defending / ball physics being random (any percentage of the time), I think of it like someone's saying "PES is great until the 60th minute when a random player is sucked into the floor for a minute and then comes back - but it's amazing except for that". It's madness, to me.

And yet:

All I can say is that after despising the Early Access version, I'm now having a blast. I see others saying the same, so I just hope that maybe with a little more time with the game you might enjoy it too.

I'm still hoping a patch will come along and fundamentally change this stuff. But that's because I'm one of those idiots that thinks a game dev can't possibly be happy with all the shit I mention above. If they weren't, general movement and physics wouldn't still be in this state after a year.

 

[mfmaxpower]

I wonder if some of the issues you're experiencing is because you're playing on Slow game speed. That's what you're playing on right? Watching your video, it looked really off to me, and I wonder if this game - because it's now so focused on being skill based, and thus has really increased the emphasis on quick reflexes and decision making - if it's just not meant to be played on Slow, where the AI issues might be more apparent, and when you have more time to exploit it. Just a thought.

But maybe FIFA just isn't for you. I mean, some of the stuff you focus on just IMO not that big a deal. Clearly it's important to you, but some of the issues you focus on, well that's just FIFA. Kinda like I just can't wrap my head around PES control scheme, or just how heavily assisted the game is.

Like, you're just seeing things I don't. Like Spurs with their "laser" passes. That was a massive issues several years ago, but I'm not seeing that a problem anymore. Sure, there's the odd pass that looks too fast, and sure there's times when players control the ball too easily, or make a pass they shouldn't be able to see... but I don't see them as nearly the issues they used to be. And despite man marking the CPU being crazy hard, I don't really see much in the way of OP CPU play like it used to be. Again, it would be nice to see examples of what you'er talking about.

I'm def not saying that what you're pointing out is wrong, or it's not an issue. Just for me, they aren't nearly as dramatic or influential as you seem to think. I think there's a lot of growing pains with this FIFA, and they never get it right on the first try, and maybe once I feel like I've mastered gameplay it'll get too easy again, but just for me, it's now clicked and I'm enjoying it more than any recent FIFAs. I don't want to say that I guarantee you'll love it with more time, but some of what you're saying sounds like me a couple days ago. If you can bare it, I'd give it a little more time (but I am wondering if playing on Slow kinda makes the worst of the game stand out more).

(If you want to move this convo and post to the FIFA thread, go for it.)

 

[manmachine]

But then it feels like an achievement to create a chance - in FIFA I don't feel that at all. I'm playing v1.02 like you and yes the AI presses but I'm not passing around for a few (in-game) minutes trying to find a gap, I'm passing around for a few seconds - or through-balling to a winger - and I find a gap and I'm in on goal. There's no joy in that, to me.

Spent my last trial hours playing on normal speed to get the broken defensive AI on slow out of the picture. And then all the other flaws take center stage and I have to agree 100% with this. And that's how the cpu plays too no matter the team. Even when you're back organised, most of the time they will play a pixel perfect through ball between your fb/cb and go for a cross. I don't know how people can say that there's variety to the AI, 80% of the time it's running down the wings and crossing.

This is a typical Fifa 20 passage of play. Repeat this 10 times over and it's a typical Fifa 20 match:

It's boring and stupid. And it's not just the wings, you can have similar end to end matches going up and down the middle of the pitch. It's 1 or 2 easy passes and/or a sprint. There is absolutely no build up except some rare brief moments of respite, mostly when you try to slow the pace down yourself even though you very rarely have to.

I even gave it a chance starting a CM with lower rated teams in Bundesliga 2. I thought Fifa 19 was mostly garbage, but I did play one season in Bundesliga 2 which was fun and, for the most part, resembled football. No such luck in 20:


This was with 10 minute halves. I can't imagine anyone playing longer than that. That's one attack ending with a shot on goal every 30-40 seconds of game time. I was Hamburg and the only reason I had 62% possession was because I tried to play some possession and pretend it was a football match when in reality it's just an online/fut match.

Interestingly Darmstadt is set to play Drop Back and Balanced Attack (not fast build up/counter attack or anything fancy like that). Yet with every player behind the ball and less possession than me they had no trouble playing direct and managing one shot every 30 seconds. And I had no trouble doing the same even though they were all behind the ball.

I've said that Fifa 19 at its worse was 20 idiots running up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. I'm struggling to see the difference here. It's basically Fifa 19 with different balancing on the attack (headers and long shots somewhat nerfed, I think a positive change, but hardly a game changer offline, now you're supposed to dribble past people or through ball more) and completely different defensive mechanics (and yes I hate both the idea and the execution). I can't see myself taking Fifa seriously ever again, not until there's separate offline/fut gameplay. It's garbage since 16, but at least I was not fooled into buying this.

 

[Badrrimus]

@mfmaxpower I agree with you in basically everything you wrote in this thread, FIFA20 might look like old fifa if played without investing time learning and mastering the basics. In real life, if you give space to neymar he will destroy you with tricks, if you give mbappe space you won't catch him with his pace and acceleration, the key here is to master defending and pressure, and how and when to use them. I totally agree with you when you mentioned diehard core Pes fanboy who claim that PES simulate football while using assisted defending system. Defence is 50% of football and fifa 20 IMO managed to balance the attacking freedom with defensive awareness to create sim like game without forgetting the fundamental part of what a GAME means, FUN.
I'm not a fanboy of any franchise, I test and play both games every year, for the last 3 years I've end up playing only PES but this year fifa just nailed it IMO, obviously it's not perfect and there is still a big room for improvement, but for the first time in years I like EA approach to what football game should look like.

 

[Badrrimus]

Spent my last trial hours playing on normal speed to get the broken defensive AI on slow out of the picture. And then all the other flaws take center stage and I have to agree 100% with this. And that's how the cpu plays too no matter the team. Even when you're back organised, most of the time they will play a pixel perfect through ball between your fb/cb and go for a cross. I don't know how people can say that there's variety to the AI, 80% of the time it's running down the wings and crossing.

This is a typical Fifa 20 passage of play. Repeat this 10 times over and it's a typical Fifa 20 match:

It's boring and stupid. And it's not just the wings, you can have similar end to end matches going up and down the middle of the pitch. It's 1 or 2 easy passes and/or a sprint. There is absolutely no build up except some rare brief moments of respite, mostly when you try to slow the pace down yourself even though you very rarely have to.

I even gave it a chance starting a CM with lower rated teams in Bundesliga 2. I thought Fifa 19 was mostly garbage, but I did play one season in Bundesliga 2 which was fun and, for the most part, resembled football. No such luck in 20:

View attachment 21249
This was with 10 minute halves. I can't imagine anyone playing longer than that. That's one attack ending with a shot on goal every 30-40 seconds of game time. I was Hamburg and the only reason I had 62% possession was because I tried to play some possession and pretend it was a football match when in reality it's just an online/fut match.

Interestingly Darmstadt is set to play Drop Back and Balanced Attack (not fast build up/counter attack or anything fancy like that). Yet with every player behind the ball and less possession than me they had no trouble playing direct and managing one shot every 30 seconds. And I had no trouble doing the same even though they were all behind the ball.

I've said that Fifa 19 at its worse was 20 idiots running up and down the pitch for 90 minutes. I'm struggling to see the difference here. It's basically Fifa 19 with different balancing on the attack (headers and long shots somewhat nerfed, I think a positive change, but hardly a game changer offline, now you're supposed to dribble past people or through ball more) and completely different defensive mechanics (and yes I hate both the idea and the execution). I can't see myself taking Fifa seriously ever again, not until there's separate offline/fut gameplay. It's garbage since 16, but at least I was not fooled into buying this.

Sorry pal, you just don't press well enough to win the ball in opposition half.

 

[manmachine]

Sorry pal, you just don't press well enough to win the ball in opposition half.

Yes that must be it, I'm playing it wrong. Happy that I won't have to play it wrong ever again.

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

This is a typical Fifa 20 passage of play. Repeat this 10 times over and it's a typical Fifa 20 match:

It's hard to believe those ball physics and animations in 2019 from a company who makes 10's of millions if not billions of dollars each year. Just how little do they invest back into it?

 

[hitmanuk]

For me the best comparison is how bored the games makes you, I haven't bought fifa for the first time in 11 years after the demo, thought it was the same as 19 which was awful. Last night I had 7 14 min matches on the bounce on pes2020 and could have carried on if it wasn't 1am. Not done that since ISS days.

 

[Chris Davies]

For me the best comparison is how bored the games makes you, I haven't bought fifa for the first time in 11 years after the demo, thought it was the same as 19 which was awful. Last night I had 7 14 min matches on the bounce on pes2020 and could have carried on if it wasn't 1am. Not done that since ISS days.

Whereas I put PES on, stuff like the latter half of this video happens and I *immediately* have to turn it off.

Neither game is perfect - just saying, it's entirely personal preference and I can't play two games in a row without seeing some form of AI cheat or ignored foul.

 

[Granger]

the AI on pes is cheating most of the times,in my last 10-15 games on PES the ai had 100% "accuracy" 2 in 90mins 2 on target 2 goals,or 1 shoot 1 on target,1goal even marking them with 5 defenders wont help if the ai wants to score its going to score,while my players fail to score 1v1 situations,or the ball go in goalkeeper,also their pass every game is 95% succesful

 

[Flipper the Priest]

For me the best comparison is how bored the games makes you, I haven't bought fifa for the first time in 11 years after the demo, thought it was the same as 19 which was awful. Last night I had 7 14 min matches on the bounce on pes2020 and could have carried on if it wasn't 1am. Not done that since ISS days.

This is true for me too. I actually took to FIFA more than I thought I would. Having thought the demo to be a disgrace, I settled in relatively well before it hit me that it's just like every Frostbite FIFA, save for some jittery models, meatier shooting and the odd bobble on the pitch. It's still too easy to counter the AI and ghost past them through bursts of acceleration or one-twos, and the headless chicken backtracking defenders makes it more simple than ever before.

I've been having major PES sessions, the most time I've invested in a game since FIFA 16. The lack of fouls and, particularly, penalties, frustrates but after nearly a whole season on Superstar I've only felt one instance of being screwed over by an unrealistic super goal, which I'm now taking as an anomaly.

This forum's been bloody entertaining too. Between the demo ultras, yo-yoers, facts, proof, lies, fan boys and curmudgeons it's been a rollercoaster. Maybe Konami and EA are trolling us and absolutely every copy is different. They've lit the match and are watching the houses burn while sitting on a pile of dirty money made from kids gambling.

 

[hitmanuk]

This is true for me too. I actually took to FIFA more than I thought I would. Having thought the demo to be a disgrace, I settled in relatively well before it hit me that it's just like every Frostbite FIFA, save for some jittery models, meatier shooting and the odd bobble on the pitch. It's still too easy to counter the AI and ghost past them through bursts of acceleration or one-twos, and the headless chicken backtracking defenders makes it more simple than ever before.

I've been having major PES sessions, the most time I've invested in a game since FIFA 16. The lack of fouls and, particularly, penalties, frustrates but after nearly a whole season on Superstar I've only felt one instance of being screwed over by an unrealistic super goal, which I'm now taking as an anomaly.

This forum's been bloody entertaining too. Between the demo ultras, yo-yoers, facts, proof, lies, fan boys and curmudgeons it's been a rollercoaster. Maybe Konami and EA are trolling us and absolutely every copy is different. They've lit the match and are watching the houses burn while sitting on a pile of dirty money made from kids gambling.

if you are on latest pes patch SS fouls have been all but destroyed due to precision tackling TP fouls are still there

Full time stats on this tp cup game 7 fouls after 90 mins

 

[P34SEMM]

This forum's been bloody entertaining too. Between the demo ultras, yo-yoers, facts, proof, lies, fan boys and curmudgeons it's been a rollercoaster. Maybe Konami and EA are trolling us and absolutely every copy is different. They've lit the match and are watching the houses burn while sitting on a pile of dirty money made from kids gambling.

EA and Konami are laughing all the way to bank.
Every year same happens, people buy the game knowing it will disappoint them. That's £60 for something you know will annoy you. Give me £60 and ill come round and annoy you!
I do enjoy seeing posts from people who dislike the games, forcing their selves to play so they can tell their selves they like it but they don't.
Both games seem to require so much tinkering its unreal (PES Modding and FIFA Sliders). I bought PES20 on PC and Ive spent more time modding than playing!

 

[hitmanuk]

EA and Konami are laughing all the way to bank.
Every year same happens, people buy the game knowing it will disappoint them. That's £60 for something you know will annoy you. Give me £60 and ill come round and annoy you!
I do enjoy seeing posts from people who dislike the games, forcing their selves to play so they can tell their selves they like it but they don't.
Both games seem to require so much tinkering its unreal (PES Modding and FIFA Sliders). I bought PES20 on PC and Ive spent more time modding than playing!

I consider myself as a logical adult and I'm more than happy with pes2020 for 32 quid. I think its a bargain. Only mod I've used is a few kits and some tactics but was happy outbox the box

 

[P34SEMM]

I consider myself as a logical adult and I'm more than happy with pes2020 for 32 quid. I think its a bargain. Only mod I've used is a few kits and some tactics but was happy outbox the box

Then my post wasn't aimed at you.
Im enjoying PES this year - the usual gripes, shit collisions and refs but all in all the best one Ive enjoyed for a few years.

 

[hitmanuk]

Then my post wasn't aimed at you.
Im enjoying PES this year - the usual gripes, shit collisions and refs but all in all the best one Ive enjoyed for a few years.

yeah i know, i agree with your points. there is also countless posts that i am sure that the people who do not like either game try to persuade people that do not to like it. Or list what they see as faults and ill give examples PES 2020 has no fouls, or PES 2020 has no penalties, PES 2020 AI free kicks always go in. And then i'll provide evidence on the contrary videos of penalties (although 1.3 patch they may be right now but not on 1.2) , videos on how to block freekicks, stats like above showing 7 freekicks but still they are adamant it's bizarre