FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

[Tinker]

was for me ..ball physics were rubbish, erratic passing, at least 2 overheadkicks per game (by degender) OP headers. No fouls (still an issue) For me FIFA was awful on release

Are these no more present? I mean ball physics and such. I find it difficult to believe.

 

[geeeeee]

One of the biggest issues for me in PES in the last few years has been the souless shooting. Admittedly i have not bought PES2019 but looking at videos and hearing comments from those that have a similar opinion to me that have played the game the over powered shooting is still there.

That is something that they wont be changing. At least in FIFA I get a good feeling when I score and sometimes it feels even better when it is scuffed in.

Also I read posts about players models being bad in FIFA compared to PES. Yep maybe they need improving but i was playing against Wycombe the other day and Akinfenwa looked great in the game. Actually is he even in PES?

The only PES i am still playing is PES2008 PS2 version which does still give me good feelings when I score a goal. So my footy fix is FIFA 19 and PES2008 PS2 version. It says quite a bit for me regarding where PES and FIFA are right now.

 

[Lons]

I played 6 matches online after the patch and game feels much better. Ball physics looks better, shooting and passing too. Day matches with proper camera seeting looks nice. I'm enjoying. Still night matches looks awful with yellow efect.

 

[fernadez]

You can only judge PES after the next patch for me. I thought FIFA was awful on release but after the latest patch it's really improved. Admittedly Konami are taking their time but if they can fix the AI it will be immense

Interesting approach. As a customer I judge things when I purchase them, not at some arbitrary date. If you're selling a product at a premium price, be prepared for that product to be judged accordingly.

 

[P34SEMM]

Interesting approach. As a customer I judge things when I purchase them, not at some arbitrary date. If you're selling a product at a premium price, be prepared for that product to be judged accordingly.

Im not a huge gamer. I only buy a couple a year - is it normal for companies to release games, see a ton of errors then patch them? Seems to happen every year with Fifa and PES - Does it happen on COD for example.
Its like EA and Konami dont bother testing and wait for the fans to buy before correcting.

 

[hitmanuk]

Interesting approach. As a customer I judge things when I purchase them, not at some arbitrary date. If you're selling a product at a premium price, be prepared for that product to be judged accordingly.

yeah I see your point but the gaming industry isn't like that now, it's no longer buying discs and that's it there's add-ons, fixes etc that come later. At the end of the day it's consumer choice - you could chose not to buy and wait for all the updates etc then buy it and probably cheaper..i also think you're right about the company approach I don't think Konami would have changed a thing without all the Twitter backlash.
I also think this applies to sporting games more than other genres as theres a million and one different opinions on how a football game should be played. Konami and EA will just follow the majority. For example if 1000 or so offline only gamers complain about no fouls in fifa it may be tweaked it may not but if 50000 of offline and online complain something will be done.
I think Konamis hand was forced somewhat this year to act due to the low sales I think there's a high % who have slated the AI including press releases. But then all they need to do is watch the PC mods and pinch (reapply) the file

 

[Chuny]

Interesting approach. As a customer I judge things when I purchase them, not at some arbitrary date. If you're selling a product at a premium price, be prepared for that product to be judged accordingly.

Good point, I agree.

 

[Lons]

It's a huge joke that KONAMI need 2 moths to make patch while EA need two weeks.

 

[Dennis_87]

The overall stats determine the level of scripting for or against you. On an individual basis, most of them are negligible.

If this was the case then a better team would always win against a worse team because they level of ''scripting'' would be bigger against a worse team but that's not the case.You can still beat a better team and you can still lose from a worse team because a big factor is how good or not you play.
But stats do matter.It's different to pass with De Bruyne than with a shitty 70 rated player and it's different to run and dribble with Messi and Neymar than Dzeko etc etc.
This is a fact.Whoever doesn't see this is just blind or hating or trolling.
People spending real money for fuck's sake to bring in better players and put on a filter to play with same level teams to not be butchered by better teams.How is this happening if stats don't matter??
I'm not saying that they are perfectly implied but still they do make a big enough difference.

 

[Chris Davies]

It's different to pass with De Bruyne than with a shitty 70 rated player and it's different to run and dribble with Messi and Neymar than Dzeko etc etc.

I would love to see some really good evidence of the difference in passing - on PA1 and on PA0 - that doesn't just show the ball being intercepted, as opposed to the pass being off-target, for example.

Genuinely. Because the patch that's coming up for PES is going to be massive.

 

[majuh]

If this was the case then a better team would always win against a worse team because they level of ''scripting'' would be bigger against a worse team but that's not the case.You can still beat a better team and you can still lose from a worse team because a big factor is how good or not you play.

The level of scripting also depends on chance to a certain extent in order to ensure that everybody wins a match at least occasionally.

 

[Dennis_87]

I would love to see some really good evidence of the difference in passing - on PA1 and on PA0 - that doesn't just show the ball being intercepted, as opposed to the pass being off-target, for example.

Genuinely. Because the patch that's coming up for PES is going to be massive.

Let's be honest here...It's not possible to have a perfect reproduction of stats in things like passing in either of the two games because of the assistance elements or the lack of them..If you are on PA0/Manual then it overrides stats and it goes to where you point the stick and if you are on PA1/Assisted like i play it also overrides stats and the assistance takes in to help you with the pass..

It's the same thing as with difficulty levels.In the highest level an average team plays better regardless of their stats and in a low level a good team plays bad regardless of their stats.The game overrides them so it will be more difficult or easy for the player.But if difficulty levels didn't exist how my 5 year old nephew would be able to play etc..

This is a thing in both games.To have it different than it is now both companies would have to introduce an entirely new system that has nothing to do with difficulties and assistance or the lack of it and only takes account of stats and reproduce it perfectly in the highest detail possible but i don't know if that's even possible,and even if it where,most people wouldn't like it probably because it would be heavily sim and difficult and frustrating.It's just a game afterall and it's supposed to be designed to have fun in a limited time so i don't think they will go heavily into sim and abandon things like assistance etc and even if they tried it it's something extremely difficult to achieve perfectly if you think about it..But surely it would be an interesting project..

But still..i can see some difference..A good player's pass feels more direct and powerfull with a less chance to be intercepted where a bad player's pass is more likely to go out of play if you try a through pass with him etc.
Also the difference is more noticable in other things like movement,dribbling,turning etc with different players and contolling someone like Messi or Neymar feels completely different than someone heavier and taller like Dzeko as i said.

So that's what i'm saying..the stat variety is nowhere near perfect but also it's not the case that it doesn't play a role AT ALL and that everyone is the same.Different players feel,play,behave and produce differently and at least there is a bigger difference and variety from previous versions i think.

Also it helps that i play online for the first time and it's something new and fresh for me but indeed most matches are a pressure fest because of the fucking Geggenpress that everyone uses(thanks Klopp.. lol) and i wish this shit wouldn't have implemented at all in the first place.Fifa online must be probably the same though if not even worse.
It's addicting though and you wanna play one more match,at least for me and for now.
Hopefully after the late October patch it will be good for a ML also.

As for Fifa i'm still tempted of getting it or not.I found it for 41 euros for pc and they give you also a random code for a Steam game with a 10% chance of being a AAA game lol so i'm thinking it..They fixed the ball size which is a big issue for me,if it had the ridiculous small ball of 17 and 18 i wouldn't even thought of getting it.But still..there's something with Frostbite that bothers me..the movement,the running,the gliding,the set piece system..i think all these things were better and more fluid with Ignite..How do you find it in general in comparison with 16 for example which was the best for me?And not to mention the endless modding possibilities with Ignite which made the game so much better and now the completely lack of it because of Frostbite..

I just hope they would have continued with Ignite and improve it furthermore and just introduced Frostbite's player models because Ignite's were horrendous indeed,and maybe today we would have a much better game overall with better movement,less clunky and glidy and more fluid and realistic.
At least i think the feel of weight is better now.With Ignite it felt more light than it should but Fifa always had that issue with ballarine-feel players.I wish they could fix it but without messing up the fluidity and make it clunkier.

 

[Dennis_87]

The level of scripting also depends on chance to a certain extent in order to ensure that everybody wins a match at least occasionally.

Yeah..but what stats have to do with it?
For example if i play a ML match and the AI decides to put my defender out of position so i can concede a goal,which i have seen happening,it doesn't take account if my defender is Chiellini or some poor youngster.It will still make it happen because it ''decided'' it regardless of the player or his stats.
So i don't see how this can have anything to do with stats as scripting is a completely different chapter.

 

[hitmanuk]

Really enjoyed a good session on fifa last night with some sliders on legendary (waiting for pes patch) but the lack of fouls off the AI is spoiling it. I've even edited one team and put aggression and slide tackle up to 99 and still nothing. The AI rarely commits unless it knows it can make the tackle

 

[majuh]

Yeah..but what stats have to do with it?
For example if i play a ML match and the AI decides to put my defender out of position so i can concede a goal,which i have seen happening,it doesn't take account if my defender is Chiellini or some poor youngster.It will still make it happen because it ''decided'' it regardless of the player or his stats.
So i don't see how this can have anything to do with stats as scripting is a completely different chapter.

The probabilty of this happening is higher the worse the overall value of your player is.

 

[Dennis_87]

The probabilty of this happening is higher the worse the overall value of your player is.

I don't know if this is a fact and where exactly do you base this or if you are an expert programmer or something or you're just making assumptions but anyway..that's not the point..
The point is that even if this is true or not,stats do matter,at least to some degree,and you can feel it with different players.That was my main point in the first place.Because some think that they don't matter AT ALL.That's not the case.
Messi is dribbling better than Dzeko and CR7 heading the ball better than Ben Yedder etc etc.That's just facts and it has nothing to do with scripting.It's based on stats and characteristics of different players feeling and producing differently,better or worse,in different aspects and situations.

 

[mfmaxpower]

I don't know if this is a fact and where exactly do you base this or if you are an expert programmer or something or you're just making assumptions but anyway..that's not the point..
The point is that even if this is true or not,stats do matter,at least to some degree,and you can feel it with different players.That was my main point in the first place.Because some think that they don't matter AT ALL.That's not the case.
Messi is dribbling better than Dzeko and CR7 heading the ball better than Ben Yedder etc etc.That's just facts and it has nothing to do with scripting.It's based on stats and characteristics of different players feeling and producing differently,better or worse,in different aspects and situations.

Have to agree. People saying stats don't matter in PES are seriously over exaggerating (shocker). That said, stats don't seem to matter nearly as much as they once did, which is probably the bigger point.

For example, something that really bothered me this year was when playing with Liverpool, Salah's weak foot didn't really feel like a weak foot. There was greater error, but it wasn't enough and the way he'd use and strike the ball with his right wasn't realistic.

 

[mfmaxpower]

The AI rarely commits unless it knows it can make the tackle

That's not quite true but I understand your point. The CPU in FIFA will commit fouls - and a good amount - if you use skill moves and dribbling modifiers, primarily L1 close dribble.

I played a match yesterday in which two CPU defenders were sent off for yellow card accumulations. I can't remember the last time I'd seen that - if ever. That said, it came from me using skill moves and L1 trapping and close dribbling, as well as shielding. It's as if using just the left stick dribbling alone isn't enough to fool the CPU.

I'm not making an excuse for the game. The lack of fouls is a major omission. But the CPU does foul - it's just highly dependent on your skill level and play style, which sucks.

 

[Peter Withe]

My final conclusion after spending many hours with both games, both after recent patches is...

FIFA 19 is superb online, trash offline. I’m already super bored with Career Mode and the way the CPU AI behaves.

PES 2019, despite its many flaws, is loads of fun in single player and against friends. I hate the spammed cross thing but apart from that, it’s really good fun.

When I’m playing Fifa, I keep thinking about PES. And when I go back to PES, I seem to have more fun with it.

Saying all that, both games are excellent this year and it bodes well for the future.

 

[bluewomble88]

My final conclusion after spending many hours with both games, both after recent patches is...

FIFA 19 is superb online, trash offline. I’m already super bored with Career Mode and the way the CPU AI behaves.

PES 2019, despite its many flaws, is loads of fun in single player and against friends. I hate the spammed cross thing but apart from that, it’s really good fun.

When I’m playing Fifa, I keep thinking about PES. And when I go back to PES, I seem to have more fun with it.

Saying all that, both games are excellent this year and it bodes well for the future.

In my opinion, literally the opposite is true.

 

[majuh]

I don't know if this is a fact and where exactly do you base this or if you are an expert programmer or something or you're just making assumptions but anyway..that's not the point..
The point is that even if this is true or not,stats do matter,at least to some degree,and you can feel it with different players.That was my main point in the first place.Because some think that they don't matter AT ALL.That's not the case.
Messi is dribbling better than Dzeko and CR7 heading the ball better than Ben Yedder etc etc.That's just facts and it has nothing to do with scripting.It's based on stats and characteristics of different players feeling and producing differently,better or worse,in different aspects and situations.

Yes, actually I am a programmer, but the point is that PES 2019 is the sixth game using the Fox Engine and the patterns are pretty obvious by now, especially when watching a lot of AI vs AI matches without human input. The top players feel different from worse players because they get special Player ID treatment, but there's only a negligible difference between average players. That's why KONAMI resorts to scripting based on overall values so the stats at least have some kind of effect even if it's a rather clumsy implementation.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Watching that Netherlands vs Germany match right now. And I had to capture that one scene, because THATS SO ME playing fuma (either game)!

looking forward to play that match on console later!

 

[geeeeee]

@PRO_TOO that’s a classic PRO. Yes that is me too but normally the pass goes astray before that into the path of their striker so that he gets a free shot at goal.

I just had an excellent game Southend (me) v Peterborough.

Our third goal is the best goal I have scored in FIFA so far because it came out of frustration from me because it was 2-2 at the time and we deserved to be winning. The player who scored typified how i was feeling at the time as he left a man injured in the process in the build up to a truly spectacular winner!

I am just uploading the goals now.

 

[geeeeee]

In my opinion, literally the opposite is true.

I’m pleased you are still enjoying it blue, have you finally got your fix since the early PES days?

 

[Peter Withe]

In my opinion, literally the opposite is true.

When i say online, I mean playing with a friend in co-op seasons...BUT and a big but here, its at its best with 'smaller' clubs not the 5 star sides. Its horrible with big teams.

Offline I was like you I loved this....but after a while the many flaws show. Unrealistic league tables, big sides sell their best players, CPU plays tiki taka with every single team, its too easy unless we use loads of sliders and then it becomes like Zombie Walking Football.

its such a weird and wonderful yet so broken experience this year...I blame the engine it runs on personally (frostbite?)

same goes for PES as well btw...that game has even more flaws than FIFA at the moment

 

[PRO_TOO]

@PRO_TOO that’s a classic PRO. Yes that is me too but normally the pass goes astray before that into the path of their striker so that he gets a free shot at goal.

I just had an excellent game Southend (me) v Peterborough.

Our third goal is the best goal I have scored in FIFA so far because it came out of frustration from me because it was 2-2 at the time and we deserved to be winning. The player who scored typified how i was feeling at the time as he left a man injured in the process in the build up to a truly spectacular winner!

I am just uploading the goals now.

Load it up!!! Like to see that goal!
You tend to have a deep relationship to you pixel player! I like that... because when I play, I AM ON THE PITCH with them too!
These little stories I create in my head...

 

[geeeeee]

Load it up!!! Like to see that goal!
You tend to have a deep relationship to you pixel player! I like that... because when I play, I AM ON THE PITCH with them too!
These little stories I create in my head...

Me too, it is all about the imagination too it adds so much to each game.

Anyway it took me two hours to upload but it is finally there in the video thread.

 

[bluewomble88]

I’m pleased you are still enjoying it blue, have you finally got your fix since the early PES days?

Yes I think so. PES 6 on PS2 remains the greatest fun I’ve ever had with a football game but it’s dated now. I can’t really go back although the odd game is ok. Still got my PS2 wired up to the TV. However, I’m a graphics whore and I really appreciate all the fine details that make a football game so organic looking. That’s why PES of the last few years has been total rubbish to me because it offers nothing like a true football super Sunday experience. The sound, commentary, menus, realism, replays, overall presentation - it’s a billion miles away from FIFA. In years gone by I’ve been unhealthily hooked on PES gameplay but even that’s inferior these days. The AI, shooting, tactics are all so rigid, broken, and soulless that I can’t put up with it. Fifa isn’t perfect but this year’s game is as close to football nirvana since I wasted literally years of my life hammering PES 6. To me it’s essentially all the good bits of PES 6 but with every modern development - contextual animations, flicks, beautiful graphics and licences, varied sound and ambience, and AI that is challenging and fun to try and beat.

 

[Dennis_87]

Have to agree. People saying stats don't matter in PES are seriously over exaggerating (shocker). That said, stats don't seem to matter nearly as much as they once did, which is probably the bigger point.

For example, something that really bothered me this year was when playing with Liverpool, Salah's weak foot didn't really feel like a weak foot. There was greater error, but it wasn't enough and the way he'd use and strike the ball with his right wasn't realistic.

I haven't played the classic retro Pes for more than 10 years now so i don't have a clear image in my mind.
But from what i remember it was still more towards a fun action arcady experience which i also liked very much back then,than a more sim game.I mean..arcady grammical movement and turning,rocket shots with Adriano etc.
At least now it has a bigger variety and realism in movement and other things.
Also there wasn't a power bar for passes back then but there was a stat for pass speed so it gave a feel of variety.But today that we have a power bar for passing there's no point in having a pass speed stat as you control this manually with the power bar which is more realistic.
Anyway...it's a fact that stat variety isn't the very best in today's Pes and i hope they will work more on this and improve it.Maybe in 2-3 years with next gen we will see some real innovation from both companies hopefully in many aspects.
But yeah..as you say..to say that stats don't make a difference AT ALL is pure exaggeration.That was my point in the first place,not that it has perfect stat variety,cause it surely doesn't.

 

[P34SEMM]

I think I prefer PES19 to FIFA19.
FIFA has everything you need to have a great football game but I prefer the feel of PES.
Would love PES to get more stadiums and licences but it wont happen any time soon.
Be interesting to see the sales of FIFA if they lost everything that PES dont have.