FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

Chris Davies said:
For me, if you don't get both, you make a choice between tougher, grittier and potentially boring football with FIFA, or faster, jazzier, wonder-football and excitement with PES.
Click to expand...
See this is why I didn't toss in my personal two cents. There are others here who have commented on how PES 2016 plays much slower than FIFA 16. Who is right and wrong? It comes down to how you personally play each game, and which aspects of either game you consider "slow." And FIFA 16 can easily be turned into a "wonder-football" game with a couple of slider adjustments.
 
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Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

It´s gonna be FIFA for me I guess as well.

Gonna keep playing PES 2016 some time and really gonna try getting into full manual, just to see whether this makes it really such a different game.

I enjoy the FIFA demo a lot and will stick to the full game probably.
I can look over the player faces and try hard to overlook that puppet-like behaviour of the player models that comes through at times.

Other than that, FIFA seem to offer much more football-feeling to me this year.
 
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Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

I have warmed to FIFA a lot this weekend. I'm impressed by its representation of things that have classically been weaknesses of FIFA, even when EA have tried to implement them. In particular, first touch error (pretty much absent from PES 2016), passing inaccuracy (pretty much absent from PES 2016), shot inaccuracy (pretty much... you get the idea).

I get that the PES crowd will play a handful of games and consider the game to be sluggish. I know I certainly did, and one of the things that PES does do very well this year is play a slick, high tempo passing game with extremely agile and responsive players. By contrast, FIFA on first pickup feels like a real slog. For the first couple of days I played it, I constantly felt like I was trying to defibrillate each passing move, as inertia (which we've all asked for) combined with a lack of movement to leave each match lifeless, static, identical. Similarly in defence I kept rolling my eyes at defenders simply letting any old player receive the ball, an age-old FIFA complaint which was clearly one of many misguided attempts to mitigate against constant defensive pressure.

Over this weekend, though, I've found that simply cranking up the marking to 60 and the run frequency to 65 has really improved things. I feel like playing this on Professional, semi controls and slow game speed is now far more rewarding. I can create intricate short passing moves in possession. I can hit teams on the break. I feel like there are now off-the-ball runs which I can find with the manual through pass, and opportunities to be really clever with my passing angles to create a good chance.

I get that PES players think there is no opportunity for dynamism here, for variations in tempo. It's hard to find without some playing around. In truth I may still find that, once I'm more comfortable with how FIFA now plays, it's only fleeting rather than something I can regularly tap into.

However, it's dishonest to imply that PES is the only title where tempo can vary, or where you can truly be competitive without having to 'act' as though you should play in an authentic footballing manner. In a lot of cases here people are blaming their enemy for crossing their knife and fork, whilst forgiving their loved one for eating with their hands.

In my extensive playthroughs of both demos, PES is arguably worse for promoting a non-footballing way of playing. It's far easier to bypass the midfield; it's a cinch to dribble overly well with poorly suited players; manual shooting does not stop every player from hitting bullets from distance; dribbling in from an angle is easier than FIFA (which is already too easy on Professional). You can play as if you needed to build a 40-pass move, but ultimately you could always have scored in 4 or fewer.


Right now fans of both titles are having to wilfully ignore certain issues, or the issues in question are fairly trivial to their concept of what football should be. For some, there will always be some confirmation bias, or they simply won't have learnt how to play the other title in the way regulars would, and so don't know how to use a target man, how to set their side up accordingly. Personally I'm inclined to stick with FIFA as I value passing error, first touch error, human dribbling ability (I'm amazed FIFA and PES have swapped on this front), and the vastly greater variety of goals I'm seeing at both ends of the pitch. I also feel like I've got to grips with the mobility of players now, and know how to move my team around the pitch with far less effort than before.

I'm still in a position where I feel like PES's theoretical peak is still higher, that it still has a certain spark that means it could still hit some absolute level of brilliance yet to be matched. But it's unattainably far from that right now. Patches won't add in passing error, entirely new shot physics, fouls, and dribbling which tallies with the player involved. It won't get rid of the general sense that everything's too easy (and I don't see that the full title is less arcadey - I don't buy that at all, it didn't happen for 2014 or 2015 and it won't have happened here). If they do, I'll be back.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

As someone whose opinion I generally read with interest your early comments about Fifa and now these make very interesting reading, thanks for sharing :)
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

romagnoli said:
I have warmed to FIFA a lot this weekend. I'm impressed by its representation of things that have classically been weaknesses of FIFA, even when EA have tried to implement them. In particular, first touch error (pretty much absent from PES 2016), passing inaccuracy (pretty much absent from PES 2016), shot inaccuracy (pretty much... you get the idea).

I get that the PES crowd will play a handful of games and consider the game to be sluggish. I know I certainly did, and one of the things that PES does do very well this year is play a slick, high tempo passing game with extremely agile and responsive players. By contrast, FIFA on first pickup feels like a real slog. For the first couple of days I played it, I constantly felt like I was trying to defibrillate each passing move, as inertia (which we've all asked for) combined with a lack of movement to leave each match lifeless, static, identical. Similarly in defence I kept rolling my eyes at defenders simply letting any old player receive the ball, an age-old FIFA complaint which was clearly one of many misguided attempts to mitigate against constant defensive pressure.

Over this weekend, though, I've found that simply cranking up the marking to 60 and the run frequency to 65 has really improved things. I feel like playing this on Professional, semi controls and slow game speed is now far more rewarding. I can create intricate short passing moves in possession. I can hit teams on the break. I feel like there are now off-the-ball runs which I can find with the manual through pass, and opportunities to be really clever with my passing angles to create a good chance.

I get that PES players think there is no opportunity for dynamism here, for variations in tempo. It's hard to find without some playing around. In truth I may still find that, once I'm more comfortable with how FIFA now plays, it's only fleeting rather than something I can regularly tap into.

However, it's dishonest to imply that PES is the only title where tempo can vary, or where you can truly be competitive without having to 'act' as though you should play in an authentic footballing manner. In a lot of cases here people are blaming their enemy for crossing their knife and fork, whilst forgiving their loved one for eating with their hands.

In my extensive playthroughs of both demos, PES is arguably worse for promoting a non-footballing way of playing. It's far easier to bypass the midfield; it's a cinch to dribble overly well with poorly suited players; manual shooting does not stop every player from hitting bullets from distance; dribbling in from an angle is easier than FIFA (which is already too easy on Professional). You can play as if you needed to build a 40-pass move, but ultimately you could always have scored in 4 or fewer.


Right now fans of both titles are having to wilfully ignore certain issues, or the issues in question are fairly trivial to their concept of what football should be. For some, there will always be some confirmation bias, or they simply won't have learnt how to play the other title in the way regulars would, and so don't know how to use a target man, how to set their side up accordingly. Personally I'm inclined to stick with FIFA as I value passing error, first touch error, human dribbling ability (I'm amazed FIFA and PES have swapped on this front), and the vastly greater variety of goals I'm seeing at both ends of the pitch. I also feel like I've got to grips with the mobility of players now, and know how to move my team around the pitch with far less effort than before.

I'm still in a position where I feel like PES's theoretical peak is still higher, that it still has a certain spark that means it could still hit some absolute level of brilliance yet to be matched. But it's unattainably far from that right now. Patches won't add in passing error, entirely new shot physics, fouls, and dribbling which tallies with the player involved. It won't get rid of the general sense that everything's too easy (and I don't see that the full title is less arcadey - I don't buy that at all, it didn't happen for 2014 or 2015 and it won't have happened here). If they do, I'll be back.
Click to expand...

thanks for detailed explaining us your feelings. perhaps you could post your slider settings of fifa16 please?
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

You're welcome Placebo. I do feel like a certain amount of complaint about the game stems from not readjusting, or getting to grips with how the game works. I'd agree the game definitely feels very sluggish at first, and it can seem interminably slow to get anything slick or smooth going. But, by yesterday evening I was putting together some pretty slick moves. I felt like my manual passing was better than it had ever been in other FIFAs, and that if there was an opportunity to up the pace, I finally knew how to take it.

The same sort of thing would hapeen in old PES titles - a week or two of frustration and not being able to do jackshit, before it all starts to come good. In that case I knew already that I could ride it out, and that eventually it'd all click. In FIFA's case, it was easy to assume that it wasn't possible and just quit the game shaking my head; now, if I have a few sluggish games I'll know to persevere.


Kije said:
thanks for detailed explaining us your feelings. perhaps you could post your slider settings of fifa16 please?
Click to expand...

So far, literally just the marking at 60 and the run frequency at 65. I don't feel like anything else needs adjusting yet.
 
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Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

romagnoli said:
So far, literally just the marking at 60 and the run frequency at 65. I don't feel like anything else needs adjusting yet.
Click to expand...

Is that for both you and the cpu?
Sorry for being a noob, but does increasing the marking slider not make the cpu apply more pressure in midfield?

Reason i'm asking is that i feel that in the 16 demo there is too much pressure in midfield, it feels forced to me.
I always disliked it in Fifa, then in 15 they got it right (to me). Now in 16 it's back again.
I think that is because a lot of people were complaining about the lack of midfield play.

Therefore am wondering which effect is created by changing the slider settings in the way you do.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

elfie said:
Is that for both you and the cpu?
Sorry for being a noob, but does increasing the marking slider not make the cpu apply more pressure in midfield?

Reason i'm asking is that i feel that in the 16 demo there is too much pressure in midfield, it feels forced to me.
I always disliked it in Fifa, then in 15 they got it right (to me). Now in 16 it's back again.
I think that is because a lot of people were complaining about the lack of midfield play.

Therefore am wondering which effect is created by changing the slider settings in the way you do.
Click to expand...

would also want to know?
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

romagnoli said:
I have warmed to FIFA a lot this weekend. I'm impressed by its representation of things that have classically been weaknesses of FIFA, even when EA have tried to implement them. In particular, first touch error (pretty much absent from PES 2016), passing inaccuracy (pretty much absent from PES 2016), shot inaccuracy (pretty much... you get the idea).

I get that the PES crowd will play a handful of games and consider the game to be sluggish. I know I certainly did, and one of the things that PES does do very well this year is play a slick, high tempo passing game with extremely agile and responsive players. By contrast, FIFA on first pickup feels like a real slog. For the first couple of days I played it, I constantly felt like I was trying to defibrillate each passing move, as inertia (which we've all asked for) combined with a lack of movement to leave each match lifeless, static, identical. Similarly in defence I kept rolling my eyes at defenders simply letting any old player receive the ball, an age-old FIFA complaint which was clearly one of many misguided attempts to mitigate against constant defensive pressure.

Over this weekend, though, I've found that simply cranking up the marking to 60 and the run frequency to 65 has really improved things. I feel like playing this on Professional, semi controls and slow game speed is now far more rewarding. I can create intricate short passing moves in possession. I can hit teams on the break. I feel like there are now off-the-ball runs which I can find with the manual through pass, and opportunities to be really clever with my passing angles to create a good chance.

I get that PES players think there is no opportunity for dynamism here, for variations in tempo. It's hard to find without some playing around. In truth I may still find that, once I'm more comfortable with how FIFA now plays, it's only fleeting rather than something I can regularly tap into.

However, it's dishonest to imply that PES is the only title where tempo can vary, or where you can truly be competitive without having to 'act' as though you should play in an authentic footballing manner. In a lot of cases here people are blaming their enemy for crossing their knife and fork, whilst forgiving their loved one for eating with their hands.

In my extensive playthroughs of both demos, PES is arguably worse for promoting a non-footballing way of playing. It's far easier to bypass the midfield; it's a cinch to dribble overly well with poorly suited players; manual shooting does not stop every player from hitting bullets from distance; dribbling in from an angle is easier than FIFA (which is already too easy on Professional). You can play as if you needed to build a 40-pass move, but ultimately you could always have scored in 4 or fewer.


Right now fans of both titles are having to wilfully ignore certain issues, or the issues in question are fairly trivial to their concept of what football should be. For some, there will always be some confirmation bias, or they simply won't have learnt how to play the other title in the way regulars would, and so don't know how to use a target man, how to set their side up accordingly. Personally I'm inclined to stick with FIFA as I value passing error, first touch error, human dribbling ability (I'm amazed FIFA and PES have swapped on this front), and the vastly greater variety of goals I'm seeing at both ends of the pitch. I also feel like I've got to grips with the mobility of players now, and know how to move my team around the pitch with far less effort than before.

I'm still in a position where I feel like PES's theoretical peak is still higher, that it still has a certain spark that means it could still hit some absolute level of brilliance yet to be matched. But it's unattainably far from that right now. Patches won't add in passing error, entirely new shot physics, fouls, and dribbling which tallies with the player involved. It won't get rid of the general sense that everything's too easy (and I don't see that the full title is less arcadey - I don't buy that at all, it didn't happen for 2014 or 2015 and it won't have happened here). If they do, I'll be back.
Click to expand...

*fervent applause*

This is basically what i've been trying to say for the last couple of weeks but my lack of reading and terrible vocab has hindered me!

brilliant post.

Also, for the majority of posts in here, the maturity has been surprising. I thought this thread would go down like a shit sandwich but in the main it's been a great debate.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

That's for both, yes.

Personally I feel the 'pressure' in midfield is one of those aspects of the game that fans tend to complain about being too prominent, yet is far greater at times in real football. I do kind of feel that tactical defending, particularly the R1 teammate contain which doesn't actually harass the opponent, was a misstep - it's too hard to capitalise on mistakes as if you're controlling more than one player.

There should be pressure in the game, and working the ball into space should be a big part of possession play. Too often in modern FIFA you see players who just stand off, 3 or 4 yards away, and it's too slow to react if there's a clear opportunity to hound a player off the ball. It's why football has fewer and fewer specialists - more players have to press the ball, more players have to be able to deal with being pressed, more players have to be able to do something with the ball if they're the player who finds space.

What control settings do you play with? I haven't found the pressing to be an issue, but then I tend to release the ball quickly rather than try to do a particular thing with a particular player, and then take my time more when I have space. Semi passing definitely helps speed up passing and make things a bit more instinctive, more in line with modern football, but I do try to use manual through ball to pass whenever I can.
 
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Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

romagnoli said:
I do feel like a certain amount of complaint about the game stems from not readjusting, or getting to grips with how the game works.
Click to expand...

Oh without a shadow of a doubt that's where 100% my issues with PES stem from, because I'm not attuned to the "correct" way to play PES to get the most out of it all I see is crappy graphics, no fouls, terrible goalkeepers etc. etc. but of course there's no way that PES can be just about that because nobody would still play it and no site would be giving it 8/9/9.5 reviews, no matter how high Konami's advertising budget is with them. I guess I'm just lucky enough that Fifa does give me enough that I need out of a game (basically an "English football simulator") what I play essentially matches what I see when I watch football and the only thing I ever watch is Sheffield Wednesday and EPL matches.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

romagnoli said:
That's for both, yes.

Personally I feel the 'pressure' in midfield is one of those aspects of the game that fans tend to complain about being too prominent, yet is far greater at times in real football. I do kind of feel that tactical defending, particularly the R1 teammate contain which doesn't actually harass the opponent, was a misstep - it's too hard to capitalise on mistakes as if you're controlling more than one player.

There should be pressure in the game, and working the ball into space should be a big part of possession play. Too often in modern FIFA you see players who just stand off, 3 or 4 yards away, and it's too slow to react if there's a clear opportunity to hound a player off the ball. It's why football has fewer and fewer specialists - more players have to press the ball, more players have to be able to deal with being pressed, more players have to be able to do something with the ball if they're the player who finds space.

What control settings do you play with? I haven't found the pressing to be an issue, but then I tend to release the ball quickly rather than try to do a particular thing with a particular player, and then take my time more when I have space.
Click to expand...

Playing the demo on professional. I agree there should be pressure. Maybe it was not enough in 15, but i feel it's a little too much in 16 (demo).
I never touch the settings, only thing i do is change the controls to PES style as in the past i always played pes.

The pressure is not necessarily a bad thing, it could be just me being old and slow in my reactions. I like to have a little midfield battle, but somehow - and i can't explain it properly - it feels forced.
CPU is also quite good at cutting off passing lanes which is fine for me.

I play like you : lots of passing as i suck at doing tricks. I always end up losing the ball or running it over the side line.
Besides, trick is another thing that in the past always put me off Fifa.
Every now and then a trick, fine. But i'd rather play without them.
Maybe it's just me getting used to the new version.
For me - on pro difficulty - it's harder than 15.

Can't see myself going up to World class as already on pro it's hard to get the ball back fm the cpu. They are too good at passing it around.

So, thanks for your reply......but you still haven't told me in what way the sliders affect the gameplay :P
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

pressure is fine for me on professional, manual controls. i find the key is to shield the ball properly and make turns into space. you cant just show the ball to opposition players - especially on your first touch - or else they can tackle you easily.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

joonlarjj said:
pressure is fine for me on professional, manual controls. i find the key is to shield the ball properly and make turns into space. you cant just show the ball to opposition players - especially on your first touch - or else they can tackle you easily.
Click to expand...
I struggle with this a lot. But I recognise it's not the game, it's me automatically pushing the stick towards the goal and pressing sprint every time I get the ball forward.

It's a really tough habit to break, but when I remember, and I hold LT/L2 and stay facing in the direction that the pass has come from, I give myself time to think.

(But I only remember about 20% of the time...)
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

I spent the better part of yesterday playing my ML in PES. Then for comparison's sake I went to the FIFA demo, which I hadn't touched since PES released last week. Wow I had so much more fun with the FIFA demo - I couldn't stop playing USA v Germany womens matches.

It's interesting to me how though PES plays a sleeker version of football, FIFA is such a more polished game. Going between the two, PES still feels like a last gen game in comparison; much of its new additions are top-notch, but there's still not near enough animation variety to feel properly current gen while there's still far too many legacy issues.

It's also surprising to me how much more "real" FIFA feels, looks, and plays compared to PES. In PES, there's just not near enough variety, especially variety in error. There's a feeling now for me in PES that after every goal, every passing move, every tackle... that I've seen this before, and it usually plays out the same.

Going to FIFA from PES, there's very few things I miss from PES. The biggest probably is in the defending mechanics. In terms of defensive AI, FIFA definitely now trumps PES (PES has some serious defensive AI issues now, reminiscent of last year's FIFA), but I much prefer PES's teammate pressure system to FIFA's essentially useless teammate contain. I also feel like it's a bit too difficult in FIFA, at least against the CPU, to apply pressure to dribblers - too often I struggle to get close enough to attempt a tackle. Though I like that the greater emphasis in defending is now on keeping your shape instead of chasing after the ball like a headless chicken, the way the game forces you to do this is too contrived. It also means that in situations when high pressure is called for, or when playing with teams that are experts at high pressure, I don't feel like the game provides the sufficient tools to do so.

My biggest concern with FIFA for the long haul is how different CPU team styles will be (and just how much depth, or lack of, CM has). PES does tactical variety better, though I don't think it's implemented nearly as well as many people seem to think. That said, the variety within FIFA's gameplay engine is now so good that I think I could continue to be sufficiently entertained to look over the deficiencies in team tactical variety. Only time will tell.

At this point I don't know if I can feel bothered to return to my ML in PES, and really the big question for me is whether I trade-in PES tomorrow when I pick-up FIFA.
 
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Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

elfie said:
So, thanks for your reply......but you still haven't told me in what way the sliders affect the gameplay :P
Click to expand...
Sorry, I thought you just asked for the settings. The marking is just intended to increase the number of interceptions due to defenders being right on top of their man (it was too easy for the CPU to pass the ball to people who should be out of the game - it probably still is, but this definitely does improve things) and the run frequency improves the amount of movement off the ball, increasing the number of options and stretches play a bit. The tighter marking combined with more runs means a run has more impact on the shape of a defence and makes pace more important, but it still requires a lot of accuracy to pack out a run.

Bear in mind I haven't been tweaking these two sliders to death, trying to compare 65 to 64 and 66. Realistically I don't think you'd be able to tell the difference anyway - it's not like pace where you can see someone's top speed, or shooting where you can suddenly see a shot flying at 200mph and think "I'd better turn shot speed down a bit". They're first efforts and broad strokes which seem to have improved things after 2 days of use. Like you, I haven't really played World Class much because it's clearly targeted at the Assisted crowd who can replicate that passing style shamelessly. Professional still challenges me given how I play, and the play itself is more believable. I'll probably have to step it up some time though.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

mfmaxpower said:
My biggest concern with FIFA for the long haul is how different CPU team styles will be (and just how much depth, or lack of, CM has). PES does tactical variety better, though I don't think it's implemented nearly as well as many people seem to think. That said, the variety within FIFA's gameplay engine is now so good that I think I could continue to be sufficiently entertained to look over the deficiencies in team tactical variety. Only time will tell.
Click to expand...

This is it for me. Would love anyone with early access/the real game to comment before I make my decision.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

Chris Davies said:
I struggle with this a lot. But I recognise it's not the game, it's me automatically pushing the stick towards the goal and pressing sprint every time I get the ball forward.

It's a really tough habit to break, but when I remember, and I hold LT/L2 and stay facing in the direction that the pass has come from, I give myself time to think.

(But I only remember about 20% of the time...)
Click to expand...

yeah its one of the most jarring things in fifa16 compared other fifas - to not be able to just take on your man every time. but its a lot more realistic and rewarding.

momentum in general requires time to learn. i notice that in the beginning the game felt very slow and players laboured but once i become accustom to the momentum and how/when to make particular movements (slow down, speeding up etc), now the game feels much faster. very much reminds me of ps2 pes in this sense
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

romagnoli said:
I have warmed to FIFA a lot this weekend. I'm impressed by its representation of things that have classically been weaknesses of FIFA, even when EA have tried to implement them. In particular, first touch error (pretty much absent from PES 2016), passing inaccuracy (pretty much absent from PES 2016), shot inaccuracy (pretty much... you get the idea).

I get that the PES crowd will play a handful of games and consider the game to be sluggish. I know I certainly did, and one of the things that PES does do very well this year is play a slick, high tempo passing game with extremely agile and responsive players. By contrast, FIFA on first pickup feels like a real slog. For the first couple of days I played it, I constantly felt like I was trying to defibrillate each passing move, as inertia (which we've all asked for) combined with a lack of movement to leave each match lifeless, static, identical. Similarly in defence I kept rolling my eyes at defenders simply letting any old player receive the ball, an age-old FIFA complaint which was clearly one of many misguided attempts to mitigate against constant defensive pressure.

Over this weekend, though, I've found that simply cranking up the marking to 60 and the run frequency to 65 has really improved things. I feel like playing this on Professional, semi controls and slow game speed is now far more rewarding. I can create intricate short passing moves in possession. I can hit teams on the break. I feel like there are now off-the-ball runs which I can find with the manual through pass, and opportunities to be really clever with my passing angles to create a good chance.

I get that PES players think there is no opportunity for dynamism here, for variations in tempo. It's hard to find without some playing around. In truth I may still find that, once I'm more comfortable with how FIFA now plays, it's only fleeting rather than something I can regularly tap into.

However, it's dishonest to imply that PES is the only title where tempo can vary, or where you can truly be competitive without having to 'act' as though you should play in an authentic footballing manner. In a lot of cases here people are blaming their enemy for crossing their knife and fork, whilst forgiving their loved one for eating with their hands.

In my extensive playthroughs of both demos, PES is arguably worse for promoting a non-footballing way of playing. It's far easier to bypass the midfield; it's a cinch to dribble overly well with poorly suited players; manual shooting does not stop every player from hitting bullets from distance; dribbling in from an angle is easier than FIFA (which is already too easy on Professional). You can play as if you needed to build a 40-pass move, but ultimately you could always have scored in 4 or fewer.


Right now fans of both titles are having to wilfully ignore certain issues, or the issues in question are fairly trivial to their concept of what football should be. For some, there will always be some confirmation bias, or they simply won't have learnt how to play the other title in the way regulars would, and so don't know how to use a target man, how to set their side up accordingly. Personally I'm inclined to stick with FIFA as I value passing error, first touch error, human dribbling ability (I'm amazed FIFA and PES have swapped on this front), and the vastly greater variety of goals I'm seeing at both ends of the pitch. I also feel like I've got to grips with the mobility of players now, and know how to move my team around the pitch with far less effort than before.

I'm still in a position where I feel like PES's theoretical peak is still higher, that it still has a certain spark that means it could still hit some absolute level of brilliance yet to be matched. But it's unattainably far from that right now. Patches won't add in passing error, entirely new shot physics, fouls, and dribbling which tallies with the player involved. It won't get rid of the general sense that everything's too easy (and I don't see that the full title is less arcadey - I don't buy that at all, it didn't happen for 2014 or 2015 and it won't have happened here). If they do, I'll be back.
Click to expand...

Insightful as per usual. We miss this quality of posting on Evo Web!

Your findings make sense on FIFA, since you are playing on the best level to play FIFA 16 which is on professional, which bizarrely is harder than World Class and Legendary and plays nicer. I put it down to instantly recognizing the defensive AI isn't so set to read and deal with the opposition so easily. on professional the game is a lot more lose and things seem to be allowed to happen more at both ends where as on legendary the game is just, very, bad.

Again, the worry would be this is very similar to PES 2014 in the sense professional was the best level to play with with anything below being too easy and the ones above being broken.

The key will be when you get the full game and crank it up to 7-10 minute matches and your able to start a manager mode and set your tactics will the game keep challenging you. In a 4 minute demo the mentality will be very different to matches in the full game.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

FIFA - the AI doesn't get drawn out positionally enough, or in any kind of free form. It's all rigidly structured. Zonal defense in the main. Can lead to same buildup play and midfield play feeling stale after a couple of games...Offline I mean.

PES - the AI gets drawn out in a much more organic looking way but the issue is that they almost hunt you down too quick so at times you're forced to move the ball on quickly. This can make you start pinging the ball around, making the game seem too quick at times. That the AI moves the ball on so quickly doesn't help the gamespeed either.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

CalcioCalabrese said:
FIFA - the AI doesn't get drawn out positionally enough, or in any kind of free form. It's all rigidly structured. Zonal defense in the main. Can lead to same buildup play and midfield play feeling stale after a couple of games...Offline I mean.

PES - the AI gets drawn out in a much more organic looking way but the issue is that they almost hunt you down too quick so at times you're forced to move the ball on quickly. This can make you start pinging the ball around, making the game seem too quick at times. That the AI moves the ball on so quickly doesn't help the gamespeed either.
Click to expand...
Excellent observations, especially about FIFA's static midfield play. I noticed that this year after playing the PES demo which as you said is much more organic in that regard.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

angus said:
Excellent observations, especially about FIFA's static midfield play. I noticed that this year after playing the PES demo which as you said is much more organic in that regard.
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Thanks bud. It annoys the life out of me because FIFA now has great variety and unpredictability in other parts of the pitch.

Maybe adjusting a marking or aggression slider could help?
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

CalcioCalabrese said:
Maybe adjusting a marking or aggression slider could help?
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Lowering the marking slider might help, good idea. Also adjusting team defensive aggression tactics. I might even try tweaking reaction ratings (PC). After playing the PES demo and seeing how well it plays in the midfield, this is something I'd like to improve in FIFA.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

angus said:
Lowering the marking slider might help, good idea. Also adjusting team defensive aggression tactics. I might even try tweaking reaction ratings (PC). After playing the PES demo and seeing how well it plays in the midfield, this is something I'd like to improve in FIFA.
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I lowered the sliders.
I complained about too much pressure from the midfield (i state again : my own fault i'm a 46 yr old noob with slow reactions) and felt it was greatly increased after 15, of which ppl complained about the lack of midfield play.

Romangioli wrote here that he increased the pressure and player run (if i remember correctly) sliders.
Since i wanted to decrease pressure i lowered both these sliders.
For me now, the demo plays much better. I have a little more time on the ball in midfield, but cpu still plays a good defensive game.
I do win my games, but mostly 1-0.

I'll stay on pro and do some more slider tweaking. More first touch errors, more passing errors.
Once i get a little better at it i can always increase the pressure again.
I'm glad we have sliders.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

wilier said:
Background:

Need help to choose between the 2 games (only buying one) for the PS4.
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Atmosphere - chants seem much more lively and authentic (just able to play Barc vs Real Madrid in demo).
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Would appreciate any impartial advice. Thanks
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Buy Fifa. This year, it's much more real football than PES.

You can play with other teams in the FIFA demo, just quit the Barca-Real game.

@all

I was a real PES Fan for years. I loved PES5/PES6. Every Friday we had tournaments with up to 10 friends. I played in the Konami PES-League and drove form Berlin to Dortmund/Munich or other Cities here in Germany to play the tournaments. With PES 2015, i had the hope that PES 2016 could be a big comeback for Konami. Played the game last Saturday for hours with a friend, and I'm not impressed.

PES is arcade, even on superstar. It's too easy to score, the goakeepers are weak, every 1on1 situation is a goal. You can foul people like Roy Keane without consequences. Brutal fouls from behind are not punished(yellow card max).:R1 Passing feels sometimes like on rails. The CPU is not attacking when you run through the middle of the field. My friend was running like an idiot to the box on superstar, than he tried to make a pass or started to dribble. I said to him: "could you try to play football?" The game is okay, we had fun and scored some nice goals, but it could be so much better. Konami is going too much into the arcade direction.

For me, FIFA is going into the right direction this year. Feels like i have to work for a goal on legendary difficulty, which makes is more rewarding to score. I'm an offline player in FIFA, who likes to play a normal season in Tournament Mode. Often, i'm playing together with a buddy against Legendary CPU to win the Premier League with Arsenal. Yeah, we are strange. :)

In Fifa, i have to protect the ball, i have to pass to win, i must press the CPU to get the ball back or force them to the ouside, and be patient against the "park the bus" teams.

I was surprised when the CPU on legendary used the right stick to run away in the FIFA Demo. No chance to catch Dortmund Batman Auba. Which is realistic.

Can't wait to get my hands on the full version.

English is not my first language, so i'm sorry for any mistakes.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

Yes, I'm all-in-favour of sliders having previously been dead against them when they were first introduced to FIFA. Back then I felt sliders were a lazy addition in a 'sort out the AI yourselves, we're only interested in online play' kind of way, although there could be an element of this at work.

Now I feel sliders are almost a necessity because it's difficult for the devs to produce an offline AI with universal appeal when there is so much subjectivity as to how a football game should play. As an exclusively offline player, I like having the ability to make adjustments. If anything there should be more sliders.
 
Re: FIFA 16 v PES 2016

Eastwood said:
Buy Fifa. This year, it's much more real football than PES.

You can play with other teams in the FIFA demo, just quit the Barca-Real game.

@all

I was a real PES Fan for years. I loved PES5/PES6. Every Friday we had tournaments with up to 10 friends. I played in the Konami PES-League and drove form Berlin to Dortmund/Munich or other Cities here in Germany to play the tournaments. With PES 2015, i had the hope that PES 2016 could be a big comeback for Konami. Played the game last Saturday for hours with a friend, and I'm not impressed.

PES is arcade, even on superstar. It's too easy to score, the goakeepers are weak, every 1on1 situation is a goal. You can foul people like Roy Keane without consequences. Brutal fouls from behind are not punished(yellow card max).:R1 Passing feels sometimes like on rails. The CPU is not attacking when you run through the middle of the field. My friend was running like an idiot to the box on superstar, than he tried to make a pass or started to dribble. I said to him: "could you try to play football?" The game is okay, we had fun and scored some nice goals, but it could be so much better. Konami is going too much into the arcade direction.

For me, FIFA is going into the right direction this year. Feels like i have to work for a goal on legendary difficulty, which makes is more rewarding to score. I'm an offline player in FIFA, who likes to play a normal season in Tournament Mode. Often, i'm playing together with a buddy against Legendary CPU to win the Premier League with Arsenal. Yeah, we are strange. :)

In Fifa, i have to protect the ball, i have to pass to win, i must press the CPU to get the ball back or force them to the ouside, and be patient against the "park the bus" teams.

I was surprised when the CPU on legendary used the right stick to run away in the FIFA Demo. No chance to catch Dortmund Batman Auba. Which is realistic.

Can't wait to get my hands on the full version.

English is not my first language, so i'm sorry for any mistakes.
Click to expand...

As another long time PES fan, I agree with your post. FIFA (at least demo) looks, feels and plays more like a real football this year.
 
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