FIFA 14 OT, Next Gen, PC Love, Fanboys, Star Wars, Hand Sanitizers

[azur]

Re: FIFA 14

What would be your top 5 additions to Fifa14 to fix/improve that?

Ill take Placebo´s question to give my thoughts:

- Inertia/Momentum/Player's body balance.
- A decent fatigue system.
- Proper footplanting & player's weight ending ice skating.
- A realistic defence system, team marking/covering, still too much to do in this field.
- Making midfield an essencial part of the game, rewarding team positioning and ground passing creativity, air balls cant be so effective.
- All actions of football must be more interactive, turning it more skill based.
- Ball physics needs to be natural, too much scripted.
- Physical system needs to be polished, some situations that happen are physically impossible, like some headers where you should break your neck.
- Player´s individuality, adding a range of running and play styles/animations (floopy, elegant, agressive, etc), preferred/wrong foot animations and effectiveness.
- Players movement (with and off the ball) needs redefinition, needs to be more precise.
- 60% of the animation's range are very good, the other 40% dont convince me at all.
- Realistic player's models, ending with those horrendous pitch colors (copy Football Kingdom ones, that shouldnt be hard to do).

I can think in a few more, but those were the first who came up to my mind.

 

[Rob92]

Re: FIFA 14

I'd like to see all of those changes and improvements. The gameplay can be improved significantly, but I don't think it is that bad or shallow. It can be a lot deeper, but that doesn't mean it is shallow imo.

What's your frame of reference for calling the gameplay of FIFA not shallow?

Compared to retro games from the 90s and early 2000s then yeah you you're absolutely correct, the gameplay of FIFA 13 has much more depth... Compared to what could be done judging from other sports games (e.g. NBA 2K) or even parts of previous football games, it's shallow.

Freedom of control is not equal to gameplay depth - it's a factor but there are many, many more. I could program a game like Pac-Man where you can move in 360 degrees instead of 4, but unless I build around it a decent stage structure, enemy behaviour etc. it's going to be a pretty pointless game to play. Same goes for FIFA (and PES) regarding manual controls - it's okay giving the user more control, but unless you build a decent football game around that then it's not going to save the gameplay.

 

[Rob92]

Re: FIFA 14

My frame of reference is comparing it to other football games. I want to play the best football game for me.

In the respects that matter to me Fifa is better than the others. Both PES and Fifa do things better than the other, it so happens I prefer what Fifa Offers more.

Nobody was comparing to PES. Whether FIFA has good gameplay depth is independent of the quality of PES. Both are fairly poor games gameplay-wise imo.

If you think the gameplay in FIFA has depth - as I said before, good for you, but surely you have to accept that other sports games of this generation truly put every football game to shame on those same terms and it's a shallow game in comparison, and that it could be a hell of a lot better?

Your definition of depth of a game is different than mine. The depth of a game is lots of different things for me, not just gameplay.

That's true, but as the discussion we were having was solely about gameplay it's also irrelevant in that context.

I feel the individual players in Fifa, I feel momentum have an effect when without the ball, I think the tactics do a good job. Some people talk about these things like they are non existent in Fifa when they are simply not.

They're not non-existent in FIFA, true, but when you compare those aspects to how they affect football in real life then you can see it's nowhere near.
In a racing game for example, the handling/physics could be very unrealistic... People wanting a more sim experience wouldn't be happy with that, that doesn't mean they're saying "the handling is non-existent". Their points are valid, as are those from fans of more casual games who enjoy it.

Fans of racing games however have the luxury of a wide spectrum of types of game, from ultra-sim (rFactor/GTR Evo etc.) to ultra-arcade (Outrun, Sega Rally) and all points in-between (PGR, Forza, GT).

People wanting a fairly realistic football sim (on the pitch) such as myself don't have any real choices.

Depth for me in Fifa is being able to play real league structures, cup competitions and teams, with decent player growth and youth player options. Sure it can definitely have a lot more.

See the reply a couple of quotes up.

Fifa has freer ball movement than PES imo, it has better collisions, physics in general than PES, it has a better atmosphere etc

PES does some good things in it's manager mode but so many things spoil it for me like the unreal league structure, the fact people are turning off player growth and transfers altogether because the system is so flawed, atmosphere is pants. The tactics and player individuality is there to a larger extent than fifa and that is great, but the rest of the package makes PES less like being in a football game to me.

I compare the depth of Fifa to it's competition which is PES, I wouldn't call either Shallow, that was my only point.

As I said Manager mode for me is key and simply has more depth to it than PES imo.

PES has better tactical structure and player individuality, but I wouldn't say Fifa is a Shallow game because of those couple of comparisons.

It's all subjective obviously

Again, most of those things are non-gameplay so irrelevant to the current topic of the discussion, especially as they are direct comparisons to PES which isn't the only bar by which you should judge quality.

What people enjoy is subjective, as with any other form of entertainment, but some gameplay aspects are testable against accuracy of depiction of the real thing.

Saying Mario Kart is more realistic than rFactor for instance would be completely wrong.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Re: FIFA 14

I put in FIFA 2010 world cup last night and I have to say it does some presentational things better than the last couple of FIFA's. It seems to have a better attention to detail for atmosphere too.

I know not every league game should be celebrated like a world cup but it felt more focused when you score in the world cup game and a little too generic when you score on FIFA 12/13.

 

[Rob92]

Re: FIFA 14

I haven't bought a tournament game since FIFA World Cup 2002, but I've always tried the demos and some of them have had some nice little touches that the proper editions lack... Euro 2008 had big puddles and confetti if I remember correctly .

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Re: FIFA 14

lol quite possibly. The passing speed is too quick (but I'll try it again on Slow) but it seems like you can skip past players with a change of pace or draw a foul. It was also the game where I'd spend many a winter Friday and Saturday night playing until 4 in the morning, trying to get a 1/2 star team into the quarters lol.

I remember playing on full manual as Kazakhstan and being up 4-3 against Spain and losing 6-4. Great game!

 

[niharjhatn]

Re: FIFA 14

I've found gameplay in FIFA to be barely playable offline.

The AI is horrible, their general approach to games is poor. The game is played at breakneck speed, team individuality is essentially nil, players don't play like they are meant to... and there's that ridiculously annoying tactics switch where a losing team will suddenly switch to an all-out pressing and full-attack style at 80 min, but will NOT do so earlier.

The impact engine still hasn't been tweaked, lots of ridiculous collisions, and there is superhuman tackling when you can make it through 20-min games giving up maybe one foul.


The worst thing is that these used to be somewhat tweakable on PC, but over the last couple of years this ability to tweak the game has decreased more and more.

Even messing with the team sliders to try and get teams to play like their real-world counterparts is just fraught with problems - for example, drop a team's tactics in pass range and run support low (like Barca for example), and suddenly the team will stop playing long crosses - like ever. They will NEVER play long balls. The AI isn't nearly so bad in PES.

The game is not perfect in PES either, but the things I value (CORE offline gameplay) is ultimately done better.

You can LITERALLY waltz the way through the midfield in FIFA without drawing any pressure many times... and I remember the trick stick being so broken that I avoided using it all together.

I think if PES 14 really uses the fox engine, we really could be hitting a new era of football games.

 

[Scutch]

Re: FIFA 14

I don't think playing against the AI will ever change. It will never match playing against a human due to the scripted nature of what the AI does when a button press is input. It has got better though. I look forward to seeing what the PS4/XB720 (naming aside) can incorporate in this regard, but I just don't see any big changes for another year at least, once the capabilities of both machines have been realised.

 

[fanolato]

Re: FIFA 14

Irrelevant says who? To me they're very relevant, they're what makes up the feeling of shallow/depth, what happens on the pitch is only a small part of what I want from a game otherwise I'd be happy just playing friendlies or meaningless fantasy league structures with mixed teams in it, that stuff puts me off and to me a game with that kind of stuff is shallow.

It was irrelevant to the point at hand of "on the pitch gameplay", which I thought was the obvious point of the conversation at that point.

FIFA lacks some depth there, and it really should not be compared to PES, because the technology currently held by EA is superior.

I agree that off the pitch stuff in MM for example are very important to the depth of the game, but I would say it is even more important that a more relevant sense of Inertia is felt (not that there isn't any, but it should be more pronounced) and new ideas for defending mechanisms, as well as more tactical freedom and relevance. The game could also use more individual animations for certain players that make controlling said players are a little different from the rest. I also agree with a previous statement about graphical models in FIFA needing to be changed. While the textures in FIFA are very good, the models are lacking.

MM could use certain changes/updates. A youth system in every team that is mostly comprised of players from the nation you are currently playing in. Scouts to be used mostly for tactical advice regarding your up coming opponents or for future signings.
More realistic transfers, they are getting there, but it could be better. I would love an option for there not to be a transfer window when you first start an MM, that way you have to play with the real squad and wait until winter.

I would love something were there are actual managers with attributes at every team. That way each team has a personality at the helm. I know it mostly unimportant for most, but with the creation center, why not include a stadium creator. That would be a neat way to have every team's homeground. Being able to have a training session, like in the old PES ML days, where you could just rund around with your squad. More realistic growing curves for youth squad players. Too many future greats it seems.

MM is the most important part of FIFA to me, and if they can get it as close in options to Football Manager, the better for me.

 

[Rob92]

Re: FIFA 14

You are wrong, I was comparing it to PES and I think it is important to compare it to the competition.

I meant that nobody else here compared to PES before you did when you replied. A few of us were in agreement about the (lack of) quality of the FIFA gameplay... You chime in and pretty much go "Ohh but I think it's decent and I prefer it to PES". That's not relevant as a reply to such comments nor does it add anything to that discussion.

Of course, for deciding what you prefer you must compare to the competition... However, just because something is the best in it's field it doesn't mean it's a quality product. The phrase "best of a bad bunch" comes to mind.

I also look at the quality in terms of:
1. What EA's resources would be capable of.
2. The complexity of other sports games evidencing the capability of the current consoles.

I do think Fifa has depth as I have described and I have also said in nearly everyone of my posts that it can be a lot better.

But I also don't think it is fair to compare a football game to a driving game, comparing cars to humans just isn't right imo. Comparing Fifa to a basketball game, where you can use many more parts of your body in Football, there are more players on the pitch to deal with many more positions to play in, more teams in general etc etc

Why is that logic not sound? It was more a case of semantics than anything else (your "non-existent" remark) and how football fans aren't so fortunate to have the breadth of choice available to racing fans.

I'm not comparing the workings of a car with the workings of the human mind or muscles, nor am I saying "A realistic racing game is possible so why not football?".


Football is a different sport to basketball, but gameplay aspects of the NBA 2K series such as the complex teamwork, tactics, team styles etc. Clearly 2K couldn't just copy-paste it into a football game engine and come up with a good football game, but it proves that much smarter AI behaviours than FIFA are possible on the current consoles.

Imo gameplay encompasses a lot more things, my feelings when playing the game etc while controlling the players. So my points are not irrellevant at all.

You said this:

"The depth of a game is lots of different things for me, not just gameplay."

I appeciate that this is true, but when the discussions you were replying to were only on about gameplay depth, defending or sounding appreciation of other aspects of the game is irrelevant to that discussion.

I'm not saying those views are insignificant or wrong, simply beside the point of the posts you were replying to.

One of my points was also the generalisation that Fifa is concentrating on online modes/other modes etc than gameplay (On the pitch gameplay) when they have introduced a new defending system, player physics and collisions, injuries which have enhanced the on the pitch gameplay quite a bit making the game deeper. Along with the other things that also enhance the gameplay and immerse me into the game I am playing.

That's correct, there have been some gameplay changes. The new defending and collisions systems are improved over their predecessors, and the introduction of 360 degree movement was important. These changes are welcome, but many of them seem almost done as an afterthought so they have a nice slogan to market and put on the box - remember "Pro Passing" for example? That sounded great in theory but the effects barely matched up to the description of it.

I think what some people are disappointed about is how most of the stuff EA works on and promotes is non-gameplay related - I don't really want to play a game with multitudes of game modes, options and a slick GUI if once you kick-off the gameplay is unrealistic and predictable.

See my point above about comparing a racing game to a football game.

See my point above responding to that.

True but just because it isn't a true simulation of football, doesn't mean it is shallow.

It's true that unrealistic games can have deep gameplay - look at Battlefield for example. In that game you can revive people from gunshots to the head with a defibrilator to the chest (n.b. I'm not comparing football to war)...

In a football game I think there is a correlation between realism and depth.

Accurate team styles = variation = gameplay depth.
Realistic inertia = more thoughtful play required = gameplay depth.
Realistic player individuality = variation/tactics = gameplay depth.
etc etc.

I think judging a game against the other games in its field (Football and pardon the pun ) is a good way of determining how a game is. Again my idea of gameplay is the whole package and how the Fifa plays on the pitch.

Also I have had some of the most realistic games of football on all manual online (With like minded people) than I have on any other football game. Realistic scorelines, battles, the use of key players, variety of goals and playing styles are all there for me......again but can be much better.

Covered the point about judging vs competition at the start.

I have also had some good games on FIFA 13, but they tend to be few and far between, and require both players to play with a certain mentality.

What is subjective is how deep you think a game is and how shallow a game is. This is what we were discussing. For me Fifa isn't shallow, it has depth just not as much as we would all like.


You talking about Mario Kart and rFactor and this has relevance, but me comparing Fifa to another football game is not relevant?

I agree that it's subjective, but the rFactor/Mario Kart comparison was just to prove that certain things can be said about the matter that are wrong.

 

[nerf]

Re: FIFA 14

When I was talking about a lack of depth, I was referring to the scope of what I'm actually doing/thinking/interacting with while I'm playing the game. Features like the impact engine and contextual injuries are nice enough to have, but they're passive features. You don't really do anything with them.

Depth to me is about having things to interact with in a rewarding way, being prompted to think about what you're doing, being engaged by something, and the immersion that comes from feeling you're getting something interesting (and variable) in return.

If tactics mattered more, that could be a much more engaging side of the game. Thinking about balancing your team, countering your opponent's strengths, executing an overall strategy. Seeing on the pitch the influence of the spare man, or a mis-match. The back and forth of tactical changes during a match. Nothing complex, just simple, tangible, contrasting options. Largely because the AI is so limited in its positional play and football IQ, you don't get to feel any of this.

If individual players did not share such generic behaviour, selecting your lineup would be a lot more meaningful and thought-provoking. Making a key substitution could make a difference. You might become more invested in that player who offers something different in his style of play, and finding a combination of styles which works, rather than one just being slightly stronger or reacting slightly quicker than the others.

The Career Mode itself is little better. There's transfers and scouting for youth... that's about it. I wouldn't expect Football Manager, at all, but I'd like to be prompted to do things, meaningful decisions to make, more scope to get involved, and some expressed context.

I feel like the game doesn't really prompt you to do anything more than go out there and kick the ball about. That's why I think the word shallow applies, there's not much below the surface. The only options available are to move 'sideways' into other game modes for variety, in exchange for any great richness in the core gameplay.

 

[zlopasha]

Re: FIFA 14

Looks like Rutter and EA are keeping their focus firmly on what makes them easy money. I understand this and respect their decision, however I'm not planning on rewarding their efforts with my money.

Football can't be an afterthought in a football game.

Comparison between FIFA and PES is pointless though inevitable, they should both be compared against 2K Sports basketball games, because these are the best sport games in existence.

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: FIFA 14

I've been playing FIFA 13 career mode sparingly for 7 months now and I've really enjoyed it. It really is the better football game this generation by some mark, in my opinion. However, the key to it's longevity and enjoyment for me has been to play it with prudence and restraint. Looking forward to FIFA 14, which will hopefully include some of the improvements suggested in this thread.

 

[Scutch]

Re: FIFA 14

The EA sports developers have always been improving on their previous version of FIFA each year to deliver a more accurate game with much improved AI. With FIFA 13 claiming the spot for the biggest video game launch of 2013, more additions or improvement is expected to be in FIFA 14 which is expected to hit the market later on in the fall of 2013.

The following is what is expected in FIFA 14:

Increased depth in manager mode

Manager mode is the most interesting and popular mode within the entire series. Considering this fact, EA sports are going to improve its depth by adding the option of manager player relation like praising your player that does well on the field, adding more transfer options, give control over training sessions and press conferences etc.

Addition of indoor mode

This is something that most people wanted to be added for quite a number of years now. Indoor mode was in FIFA 98 but was eliminated very quickly. It has a lot of fun compared to the grass pitch play. It's expected that FIFA 14 incorporates this mode when it will be released. The indoor football mode plays 6 versus 6 on the pitch, is an omission in FIFA but will be in FIFA 14. So get ready for this thrilling welcomed new addition to the game.

Obviously, the addition of more teams and languages

FIFA 14 will have more teams in all categories. There will be addition of more football leagues that are found in the world, more international countries etc. This means players that were not in FIFA 13 will be added in FIFA 14. More languages are also expected to be added to the latest edition.

Improved commentary

If you keenly followed the commentary of FIFA 13, you will notice it tends to be repetitive; same club histories in consecutive games. This is sometimes a little boring and repeated. FIFA 14 is expected to have an improved commentary which is unique in each and every game. It's also going to be more accurate and include some new commentators too.

More depth to player career mode

Options available for player career mode were very small in the previous version, unlike other different electronic football games. The player should be subjected to more scenarios and also have the ability to react to this scenario in his own unique way. FIFA 14 is expected to have more scenarios for the player, this is unlike FIFA 13.

LAN multiplayer

This feature was available in previous FIFA titles, but it was removed in FIFA 11. The LAN multiplayer is greatly missed by many gamers all over the world. It has made many restrictions in the overall gaming experience. If you don't have an internet connection, you're forced to play against the AI which is boring at times.

Though there are limited chances that EA sports will review this feature, it's still expected to be back in this years title. There are other improvements like increase in the graphic acceleration of FIFA 14 but a bit more complex.These are some of the simple expected additions and improvement that will come with FIFA 14, so get ready for this action. It is also expected to be more fun compared to the previous installments.

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: FIFA 14

6 v 6 indoor mode

 

[azur]

Re: FIFA 14

Is all of that true? If so, good bye fifa.

 

[BobbyBox]

Re: FIFA 14

Yeah its worrying if they are putting a lot of time and effort into indoor football and it will probably be shit as well.

The career mode sounds good, but I want more.

But it all sounds like some sort of wish list, than what is actually going to be on there?

 

[Lami]

Re: FIFA 14

No news on the gameplay part.

Maybe we'll hear more from both games in May.

 

[Placebo]

Re: FIFA 14

I have zero interest in an indoor mode.

 

[WDonPC]

Re: FIFA 14

For FIFA 14, I hope they fix the goalie rating system, my rating goes down even when the ball is on the other side of the field. Many people who play the career mode as a keeper have this problem. The only way to get a good rating is to be on a team with poor defense and save every shot taken.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Re: FIFA 14

Is all of that true? If so, good bye fifa.

That was one terribly written "news" article. I don't know who wrote that drivel but it sounds to me much more like a "wishlist" than actually reporting anything for real.

Personally, you keep seeing requests for them but I'm not sure which is a worse idea, an indoor mode or a ref mode.

 

[_anderson]

Re: FIFA 14

Where's that from? Sounds completely fake.

 

[Ipswich69]

Re: FIFA 14

With the exception of an indoor mode, which won't be in FIFA because it's already in FIFA Street, the article does nothing more than state the obvious, that everything in FIFA 14 will attempt to be an improvement over FIFA 13.

 

[*aLe]

Re: FIFA 14

I have zero interest in an indoor mode.

Exactly. I've tried indoor mode in FIFA 12 for Nintendo DS (I thought it was 12, at least) and it didn't impress me much.

Including indoor mode in FIFA 14 would probably mean a "stripped down" version of FIFA Street will be included.
Less pitches, less individuality of players, and so on.
I'd rather prefer a release of FIFA Street for PC instead, so the people could choose between them and choose the one that siuts them the most.

I'd choose FIFA for sure if I had to pick one, but probably end up buying also FIFA Street when the price drops a little, because it sounds more fun for casual tournaments against friends.
But I wouldn't want it to be included in FIFA. They are two different games.

 

[Honome]

Re: FIFA 14

No news on the gameplay part.

Maybe we'll hear more from both games in May.

According to Reuter gameplay is already perfect, no need to improve it!

 

[Nik]

Re: FIFA 14

According to Reuter gameplay is already perfect, no need to improve it!

If something isn't broken, don't fix it...

 

[AlaaEG]

Re: FIFA 14

Please tell EA to ban assisted controls! People won't learn playing manual in 13 even after 7 months after release!!! What's so casual about that?

 

[aitken]

Re: FIFA 14

Please tell EA to ban assisted controls! People won't learn playing manual in 13 even after 7 months after release!!! What's so casual about that?

If fifa did this, it would lose a lot of sales, as majority of the sales are from people who play full assisted and aren't willing to learn a game from basis, it's sad but it's the age we live in.

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Re: FIFA 14

tomorrow news

ea sport on facebook

 

[ant0n]

Re: FIFA 14

If fifa did this, it would lose a lot of sales, as majority of the sales are from people who play full assisted and aren't willing to learn a game from basis, it's sad but it's the age we live in.

Renaming Semi to Assisted and only allowing those two control types would not deter people.