BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Team
- Arsenal
-
Major upgrades completed! Please report any issues you spot in here
FIFA 09 Discussion Thread (Old)
- Thread starter JayD
- Start date
- Status
sweetkilla
Spurs
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Why not ? its keeping players charachteristics and tendancies upto date for every week... and your are not forced to use the updates either which is a + for those who don't want to use this feature.
Why not ? its keeping players charachteristics and tendancies upto date for every week... and your are not forced to use the updates either which is a + for those who don't want to use this feature.
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Yea? That's pretty good then. But to me before gimmicking i'd prefer they make sure the gameplay is spot on then jump on that wagon.
Yea? That's pretty good then. But to me before gimmicking i'd prefer they make sure the gameplay is spot on then jump on that wagon.
Ferraritim
Championship
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
It would be nice to always play against teams using the formation they used last week in real life.
It would be nice to always play against teams using the formation they used last week in real life.
AsterNzeyii
Meh.
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Live DNA would be awesome if you can switch it on or off, like sweetkilla said. But why would they make a new game then? If f.e FIFA 2010 has an excellent gameplay, there's nothing left to improve because all the recent teams are in it.
Live DNA would be awesome if you can switch it on or off, like sweetkilla said. But why would they make a new game then? If f.e FIFA 2010 has an excellent gameplay, there's nothing left to improve because all the recent teams are in it.
sweetkilla
Spurs
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
obviously I just think its a nice topping on the pizza when it comes around to been introduced in fifa
obviously
I just think its a nice topping on the pizza when it comes around to been introduced in fifa
sweetkilla
Spurs
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
they would stop the updates guaranteed after the season was over...
their clever
Live DNA would be awesome if you can switch it on or off, like sweetkilla said. But why would they make a new game then? If f.e FIFA 2010 has an excellent gameplay, there's nothing left to improve because all the recent teams are in it.
they would stop the updates guaranteed after the season was over...
their clever
fatlip180
League 1
- 19 October 2004
- Team
- Liverpool FC
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
The live DNA imo would only be really useful in the interactive leagues, where you play the real fixtures.
Then you would be playing the game with the same advantages/disadvantages as your real team would be on the matchday - ie injuries, players on form etc.
That would be cool
The live DNA imo would only be really useful in the interactive leagues, where you play the real fixtures.
Then you would be playing the game with the same advantages/disadvantages as your real team would be on the matchday - ie injuries, players on form etc.
That would be cool
astirling
League 2
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
I disagree. Just say you're playing the league as Stoke and you're scheduled to play away to Everton. The previous week in real life, Everton are playing away at Old Trafford and decide to play a heavily defensive formation. It's hardly realistic if this is just mimicked in the game and Stoke come up against an Everton side at Goodison playing 10 men behind the ball.
I disagree. Just say you're playing the league as Stoke and you're scheduled to play away to Everton. The previous week in real life, Everton are playing away at Old Trafford and decide to play a heavily defensive formation. It's hardly realistic if this is just mimicked in the game and Stoke come up against an Everton side at Goodison playing 10 men behind the ball.
Ferraritim
Championship
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Fair enough
But changes like the manager's preferences and injuries would be nice. Certain players will play in the beginning and disappoint. Some will get injured. Some will get suspended.
Fair enough
But changes like the manager's preferences and injuries would be nice. Certain players will play in the beginning and disappoint. Some will get injured. Some will get suspended.
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
i posted it aswell
I didn't ignore you - I said the same thing
i posted it aswell
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Don't see it happening myself, player/team data is provided by fans from around the world who receive a small annual stipend for doing so, this supposed new system would require a vast amount more work than is currently provided and it would be necessary week in week out.
Don't see it happening myself, player/team data is provided by fans from around the world who receive a small annual stipend for doing so, this supposed new system would require a vast amount more work than is currently provided and it would be necessary week in week out.
sweetkilla
Spurs
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
The work would not be done by them it would be done by a tracking system they said was used by Nba Teams (For NBA LIVE)
The work would not be done by them it would be done by a tracking system they said was used by Nba Teams (For NBA LIVE)
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Hmmm well still don't see it happening.
Hmmm well still don't see it happening.
winston
Champions League
- 7 August 2005
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
No matter how good FIFA2010 is, the room for improvement in the gameplay will be vast.
People used to say that PES was perfect, that they couldn't see room for improvement except may having more licensed teams. These are the same people that serve you your meal at MacDonalds.
Live DNA would be awesome if you can switch it on or off, like sweetkilla said. But why would they make a new game then? If f.e FIFA 2010 has an excellent gameplay, there's nothing left to improve because all the recent teams are in it.
No matter how good FIFA2010 is, the room for improvement in the gameplay will be vast.
People used to say that PES was perfect, that they couldn't see room for improvement except may having more licensed teams. These are the same people that serve you your meal at MacDonalds.
Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Agreed. There can always be improvements. Though I hate when they try and improve things that don't need improving/changing just for the sake of change.
Procedural animations, new animation technologies when they are developed, new AI techs, learning AI, physics systems that are programmed to respond in the exact same way as real life (where you wouldn't need to worry about clipping (since that isn't possible in real life), or animation speeds being too quick (muscle power would be programmed so that a player can't move a leg faster than humanly possible to shoot).
Injury systems that don't just calculate the force or impact and decide "injury" or "no injury", but that can simulate skeletal structure and ligament and tendon strengths, and apply forces to the skeleton to see if it breaks or not. Turning too quickly or stopping too abruptly might cause higher risks for ACL tears for example.
Going for a header near the goal and hitting the post with the head would cause the player tumbling to the ground, possibly breaking a rib or two when landing flat on his back. Landing on the neck could potentially have serious outcomes (forcing a player to retire from his career prematurely, or even death if desired).
Goalkeeper getting a hard shot to the face from up close would be knocked out realistically. Goalkeepers can break fingers if the ball hits them at an awkward angle, jump into the post and react appropriately.
Simulating the way the ball would compress when struck with a boot, rather than just calculating the power and resulting curl crudely. This would mean that the power of a shot is a result of the speed and weight behind the swinging foot and not a "SHot power stat", the accuracy of a shot would be determined by how the foot actually contacts the ball (dependant on the shot accuracy stat), rather than just the shot accuracy stat alone.
Stuff like that. The current technology is very basic still, though the shell that surrounds it has become more flashy and advanced.
Agreed. There can always be improvements. Though I hate when they try and improve things that don't need improving/changing just for the sake of change.
Procedural animations, new animation technologies when they are developed, new AI techs, learning AI, physics systems that are programmed to respond in the exact same way as real life (where you wouldn't need to worry about clipping (since that isn't possible in real life), or animation speeds being too quick (muscle power would be programmed so that a player can't move a leg faster than humanly possible to shoot).
Injury systems that don't just calculate the force or impact and decide "injury" or "no injury", but that can simulate skeletal structure and ligament and tendon strengths, and apply forces to the skeleton to see if it breaks or not. Turning too quickly or stopping too abruptly might cause higher risks for ACL tears for example.
Going for a header near the goal and hitting the post with the head would cause the player tumbling to the ground, possibly breaking a rib or two when landing flat on his back. Landing on the neck could potentially have serious outcomes (forcing a player to retire from his career prematurely, or even death if desired).
Goalkeeper getting a hard shot to the face from up close would be knocked out realistically. Goalkeepers can break fingers if the ball hits them at an awkward angle, jump into the post and react appropriately.
Simulating the way the ball would compress when struck with a boot, rather than just calculating the power and resulting curl crudely. This would mean that the power of a shot is a result of the speed and weight behind the swinging foot and not a "SHot power stat", the accuracy of a shot would be determined by how the foot actually contacts the ball (dependant on the shot accuracy stat), rather than just the shot accuracy stat alone.
Stuff like that. The current technology is very basic still, though the shell that surrounds it has become more flashy and advanced.
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D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
We are a LOOOOOOOOONG way from that kinda stuff, Trance. A LONG LOOOOOONG way. Simulating muscles and individual body parts to be specifically injured in real time? Can't see that happening anytime in the next five years.
We are a LOOOOOOOOONG way from that kinda stuff, Trance. A LONG LOOOOOONG way. Simulating muscles and individual body parts to be specifically injured in real time? Can't see that happening anytime in the next five years.
jaygrim
TheAllSeeingEye
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
So if one of my players snaps his leg in real life i cant play him again until FIFA 10?
Thats just fucking silly.
So if one of my players snaps his leg in real life i cant play him again until FIFA 10?
Thats just fucking silly.
D
DagsJT
Guest
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
That's a good point. What happens in NBA 09 if a top player is injured for the season? Is he useless for the 09 season of the game then?
That's a good point. What happens in NBA 09 if a top player is injured for the season? Is he useless for the 09 season of the game then?
jaygrim
TheAllSeeingEye
winston
Champions League
- 7 August 2005
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
It's the control system that is still so basic. The "next-gen breakthrough" in the controls was to have analogue passing, which isn't even fully analogue and is a weak implementation that lacks a natural feel. Everything else is the same as last-gen...same old button pressing...scritped outcomes...no innovation at all.
I look at the list of 250 improvements for FIFA09 and I don't see anything that gets me excited. Yes, they're gradually progressing in some aspects of the game but the fundamental feel (the controls) are still the same restricted system that's been around for the past 10 years. Even sensi-soccer at least had proper after-touch, albeit to cartoon effect.
I'm probably talking about the things in the threads in your (Trance_Allstar) signature. I want to see the whole control system ripped up and started from scratch, where you have real and intuitive control of your player and how he strikes the ball. I'd like to hear the developers at least talking about this kind of thing, but they never do. It's like they've all decided the PES control system is as good as it gets, so they copy that, add a half-baked analogue passing element, and then put all our efforts into other things, never again to reconsider the most fundamental aspect of the game.
It's the control system that is still so basic. The "next-gen breakthrough" in the controls was to have analogue passing, which isn't even fully analogue and is a weak implementation that lacks a natural feel. Everything else is the same as last-gen...same old button pressing...scritped outcomes...no innovation at all.
I look at the list of 250 improvements for FIFA09 and I don't see anything that gets me excited. Yes, they're gradually progressing in some aspects of the game but the fundamental feel (the controls) are still the same restricted system that's been around for the past 10 years. Even sensi-soccer at least had proper after-touch, albeit to cartoon effect.
I'm probably talking about the things in the threads in your (Trance_Allstar) signature. I want to see the whole control system ripped up and started from scratch, where you have real and intuitive control of your player and how he strikes the ball. I'd like to hear the developers at least talking about this kind of thing, but they never do. It's like they've all decided the PES control system is as good as it gets, so they copy that, add a half-baked analogue passing element, and then put all our efforts into other things, never again to reconsider the most fundamental aspect of the game.
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
I think that would be great especially if you can't TF him too...
You just get cut scenes of him getting a tan on crutches looking rather gay...
I think that would be great especially if you can't TF him too...
You just get cut scenes of him getting a tan on crutches looking rather gay...
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Nah. They would just update the newest version only thereby requiring you to buy the next version... It's the perfect system to ensure constant reselling: ie, update only the latest version.
Live DNA would be awesome if you can switch it on or off, like sweetkilla said. But why would they make a new game then? If f.e FIFA 2010 has an excellent gameplay, there's nothing left to improve because all the recent teams are in it.
Nah. They would just update the newest version only thereby requiring you to buy the next version... It's the perfect system to ensure constant reselling: ie, update only the latest version.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
That was what I was thinking:
NBA - 30 teams of about 15 players per team.
FIFA 09 - 30 Leagues of about 25-30 players per team.
Easy to implement in NBA Live but a hell of a task in FIFA.
That was what I was thinking:
NBA - 30 teams of about 15 players per team.
FIFA 09 - 30 Leagues of about 25-30 players per team.
Easy to implement in NBA Live but a hell of a task in FIFA.
Sollito
Campioni siamo noi
Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
Well, I wasn't limiting myself to 5 years specifically.
First of all, simulating bones and such is not that advanced. In the easiest way, all you'd need to do is model a skeleton, and then use a system like what might be used in Crysis etc for breaking wooden planks (which is calculated in real time). There are no fixed breakage points that are predetermined ("scripted" if you will), but the wood breaks and splinters realistically, via random damage generators, at the point where force is excerted (like a shotgun blast). All you need to do is translate that to the player models, and make the bones as sturdy as real bones are. Then to make realistic collisions you again can use euphoria, basically a mix between ragdoll and procedural animation. The program can sense anywhere on the player models where a force is applied, and if the force goes over a certain threshold there will be damage.
The reason Euphoria is so important is because everything in that game, from walking to running etc, is based on physics.
So, if an opponent goes in and tackles you studs first on the ancle, if his leg is tensed (so that his muscles are keeping is straight) then all his energy would be transferred into your ancle. But, if the player doesn't tense his leg, then his knee would bend and your ancle would be much better off. Having completely stiff players moving with older animation techniques running around would be hard to manage. Having a certain amount of ragdoll on everything (as in real life), you will always get realistic results in impacts, since if you punch someone in the face, your hand is slowed down by the force aswell which limits the damage, rather than just keeping the same speed through the punch (there is a difference punching someone in the face at 50km/h and hitting someone in the face with a car at 50km/h, the hand has less mass behind it and thus has less kinetic energy to transfer). Otherwise nudging someone in the face with the index finger, with an unadaptable animation, would cause the same damage as a car. The laws of action/reaction need to be in place, and Euphoria has a great way of simulating mass and collisions (Just play GTA4 and run some people over with a car, or go around pushing people etc).
Also while breaking wooden planks in a game realistically might take lots of computer power, you'd obviously not have many bones break per game. Almost always they will be skeletons running around not doing anything (The whole system is completely hidden and inactive until a force strong enough is detected to necessitate doing the needed calculations). If you play Crysis and blow up a hut in the woods, the game starts lagging when the bomb goes off, since there is a sudden need to calculate huge amounts of material breaking apart. But when not activated it doesn't take up much resources.
And, you wouldn't even need to be all that advanced. Just model 10-15 of the big bones/body parts (arms, legs, torso, head, spine etc), and when a big collision enough is detected, they break. Today the collisions are calculated for force, so that the proper animation can be executed based on the force of the impact.
So it's a matter of combining techniques that already exist today to make very realistic damage to bones etc. As for muscles, all you'd need there is the same principle, if a knee goes into someones thigh muscle, they go down hard. Depending on the force, a realistic assumption on how muscles react to different forces will determine how badly injured the player gets.
You could even get the look of the muscles just right by using a softbody model to make the muscles move and flap around. With the same principle that a shower curtain might move when you walk through it in a game like Hitman or Splinter Cell.
Hardware power is the only limitation as far as I can see.
Also, the injury system could be exactly the same as today, only the way the player is injured changes. If he breaks his neck, he could be out for 30 weeks (sort of the standard PES "long-injury" time).
If you play a friendly the injury obviously doesn't carry over to other games.
But it would be very cool if you could unleash an Adriano bomb, hit an opponent in the arm and have him being carried off the field with a broken arm.
Something to look forward to anyways, right?
Well, I wasn't limiting myself to 5 years specifically.
First of all, simulating bones and such is not that advanced. In the easiest way, all you'd need to do is model a skeleton, and then use a system like what might be used in Crysis etc for breaking wooden planks (which is calculated in real time). There are no fixed breakage points that are predetermined ("scripted" if you will), but the wood breaks and splinters realistically, via random damage generators, at the point where force is excerted (like a shotgun blast). All you need to do is translate that to the player models, and make the bones as sturdy as real bones are. Then to make realistic collisions you again can use euphoria, basically a mix between ragdoll and procedural animation. The program can sense anywhere on the player models where a force is applied, and if the force goes over a certain threshold there will be damage.
The reason Euphoria is so important is because everything in that game, from walking to running etc, is based on physics.
So, if an opponent goes in and tackles you studs first on the ancle, if his leg is tensed (so that his muscles are keeping is straight) then all his energy would be transferred into your ancle. But, if the player doesn't tense his leg, then his knee would bend and your ancle would be much better off. Having completely stiff players moving with older animation techniques running around would be hard to manage. Having a certain amount of ragdoll on everything (as in real life), you will always get realistic results in impacts, since if you punch someone in the face, your hand is slowed down by the force aswell which limits the damage, rather than just keeping the same speed through the punch (there is a difference punching someone in the face at 50km/h and hitting someone in the face with a car at 50km/h, the hand has less mass behind it and thus has less kinetic energy to transfer). Otherwise nudging someone in the face with the index finger, with an unadaptable animation, would cause the same damage as a car. The laws of action/reaction need to be in place, and Euphoria has a great way of simulating mass and collisions (Just play GTA4 and run some people over with a car, or go around pushing people etc).
Also while breaking wooden planks in a game realistically might take lots of computer power, you'd obviously not have many bones break per game. Almost always they will be skeletons running around not doing anything (The whole system is completely hidden and inactive until a force strong enough is detected to necessitate doing the needed calculations). If you play Crysis and blow up a hut in the woods, the game starts lagging when the bomb goes off, since there is a sudden need to calculate huge amounts of material breaking apart. But when not activated it doesn't take up much resources.
And, you wouldn't even need to be all that advanced. Just model 10-15 of the big bones/body parts (arms, legs, torso, head, spine etc), and when a big collision enough is detected, they break. Today the collisions are calculated for force, so that the proper animation can be executed based on the force of the impact.
So it's a matter of combining techniques that already exist today to make very realistic damage to bones etc. As for muscles, all you'd need there is the same principle, if a knee goes into someones thigh muscle, they go down hard. Depending on the force, a realistic assumption on how muscles react to different forces will determine how badly injured the player gets.
You could even get the look of the muscles just right by using a softbody model to make the muscles move and flap around. With the same principle that a shower curtain might move when you walk through it in a game like Hitman or Splinter Cell.
Hardware power is the only limitation as far as I can see.
Also, the injury system could be exactly the same as today, only the way the player is injured changes. If he breaks his neck, he could be out for 30 weeks (sort of the standard PES "long-injury" time).
If you play a friendly the injury obviously doesn't carry over to other games.
But it would be very cool if you could unleash an Adriano bomb, hit an opponent in the arm and have him being carried off the field with a broken arm.
Something to look forward to anyways, right?
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Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
I would guess they would put him on the reserves, but he would still be able to play if you wanted. Just that the starting eleven and subs etc reflect reality. They wouldn't do anything to actually limit the possibilities for making your own decisions, like removing a player who is injured in real life.
But if you play the CPU, they won't have him available since they settle for the starting 11 + subs, so you won't play against the injured player.
Also this wouldn't work in MM since the squads would be "locked" when you start, since MM simulates real football seasons. You can't have the simulation plus real life events being reflected at the same time, since they would clash.
Otherwise you'd buy Ronaldinho, and then a week later he would magically move to Milan.
I would guess they would put him on the reserves, but he would still be able to play if you wanted. Just that the starting eleven and subs etc reflect reality. They wouldn't do anything to actually limit the possibilities for making your own decisions, like removing a player who is injured in real life.
But if you play the CPU, they won't have him available since they settle for the starting 11 + subs, so you won't play against the injured player.
Also this wouldn't work in MM since the squads would be "locked" when you start, since MM simulates real football seasons. You can't have the simulation plus real life events being reflected at the same time, since they would clash.
Otherwise you'd buy Ronaldinho, and then a week later he would magically move to Milan.
R
Rob92
Guest
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
If bones broke realistically, in a way such as the one you explained, in any game probably, the game would probably have to be rated 18 or something because people would complain about the injuries being so graphic. Also, a lot of people would just go in trying to cause the worst injuries they can i.e. massive strong player charging in for a two footed lunge against a small weaker player to cause a very bad looking injury, or people would try to set up diving headers against the post (now that would look funny if the collisions were realistic!). I am all for realism though and would welcome something such as that.
If bones broke realistically, in a way such as the one you explained, in any game probably, the game would probably have to be rated 18 or something because people would complain about the injuries being so graphic. Also, a lot of people would just go in trying to cause the worst injuries they can i.e. massive strong player charging in for a two footed lunge against a small weaker player to cause a very bad looking injury, or people would try to set up diving headers against the post (now that would look funny if the collisions were realistic!
). I am all for realism though and would welcome something such as that.
sweetkilla
Spurs
Re: FIFA 09 Discussion Thread
do people really think they would be updating every league in fifa....
it would be for the main leagues by that I mean
Serie A
Premiership
LA LIGA
Bundesliga
otherwise like others have said it would be a ''huge task'' updating 15,000 odd players on a weekly basis I doubt is possible!
some may or may not agree with the leagues chosen but those are the leagues I feel deserve all the attention
do people really think they would be updating every league in fifa....
it would be for the main leagues by that I mean
Serie A
Premiership
LA LIGA
Bundesliga
otherwise like others have said it would be a ''huge task'' updating 15,000 odd players on a weekly basis I doubt is possible!
some may or may not agree with the leagues chosen but those are the leagues I feel deserve all the attention
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