EURO 2012 DLC Pack

[CalcioCalabrese]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Better than paying 3/3 price for some kits, stadiums and supposedly "tweaked" gameplay. I'm sure they will have all the same presentation, qualification functions and online play as a full version.

I think their website announced achievements for winning 4 or 5 consecutive matches? Or maybe that was something else. Can't remember now.

I was thinking I'd trade in FIFA 12 but at least now this gives me a reason to keep it and pay $30 for Euro and have both that tournament and the full league structures to play with. I get bored with the gameplay a bit but I would have got the Euro game so this is essentially a $60 saving for me.

 

[Rob92]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

I never tend to buy tournament games anyway to be honest so this doesn't bother me, the only ones I've had have been FIFA 98 RTWC (had club teams etc anyway), Champions League 98/99 (great memories of that game, probably too young to realise how bad it was ), Euro 2000 and FIFA WC 2002.

The only thing that tempted me to buy a tourney game recently was that "Captain your Country" mode in Euro 2008 (WC 2010 too?) that may have been great fun with a few mates, it's a shame how you're not allowed to play BAP games/modes in FIFA with more than one player under human control.

 

[shoemaker]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

well anyway Ea/konami have all licenses so any other company would need to be like old Pes and fake names/stadia/teams/players/kits etc...though

This Is Football FTW

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

So it seems both Adam and McDonalds were kinda right.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

I've known about this news for a pretty long time now, though some more concrete details have been revealed over the last couple of days. Very much like with FIFA Street, this is aimed at a market who can't seem to throw enough money at EA for FIFA. It's all summed up by this comment, from the producer Sebastian Enrique:

"As part of using the FIFA Engine and being DLC, there are no gameplay changes within Euro. FIFA gameplay is awesome".

I think I felt my jaw twitch when I read that. Yes, it's PR, and this is EA's way, but I absolutely loathe this attitude. Clearly EA don't necessarily believe what their marketing mouth says, but, it simply isn't healthy for game development to be going on under this delusion in regards to gameplay. A little humility might go a long way. People shouldn't be able to write novels about the flaws in your gameplay engine.

People criticised EA in the past for having two football games in a year when they released the Euro/WC games, but arguably the WC/Euro editions are some of the best FIFA's we've had. Now look at the situation. We've got FIFA 12, FUT, FIFA Street, and now this Euro DLC. EA's four extremely successful ways of getting as much as they possibly can out of the same engine.

Hopefully, finally, we'll start hearing about FIFA 13 in the coming weeks - and just maybe they'll start talking about more radical changes. I won't hold my breath, but I'm pretty desperate for it.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

I've known about this news for a pretty long time now, though some more concrete details have been revealed over the last couple of days. Very much like with FIFA Street, this is aimed at a market who can't seem to throw enough money at EA for FIFA. It's all summed up by this comment, from the producer Sebastian Enrique:

"As part of using the FIFA Engine and being DLC, there are no gameplay changes within Euro. FIFA gameplay is awesome".

I think I felt my jaw twitch when I read that. Yes, it's PR, and this is EA's way, but I absolutely loathe this attitude. Clearly EA don't necessarily believe what their marketing mouth says, but, it simply isn't healthy for game development to be going on under this delusion in regards to gameplay. A little humility might go a long way. People shouldn't be able to write novels about the flaws in your gameplay engine.

People criticised EA in the past for having two football games in a year when they released the Euro/WC games, but arguably the WC/Euro editions are some of the best FIFA's we've had. Now look at the situation. We've got FIFA 12, FUT, FIFA Street, and now this Euro DLC. EA's four extremely successful ways of getting as much as they possibly can out of the same engine.

Hopefully, finally, we'll start hearing about FIFA 13 in the coming weeks - and just maybe they'll start talking about more radical changes. I won't hold my breath, but I'm pretty desperate for it.

You wait until a day after it's announced to tell the world you knew about it for a long time? lol

Many people think Fifa is awesome or very good, With Placebo's slider's and Fifa Ultimate Team (why does this mode play superbly compared to H2H?) i'd agree with them.

I take it by the tone of your post your not much of a Fifa fan, Good luck in your wish for radical changes but you must be mad if you think Fifa needs them right now. Fifa needs better AI with some minor tweaking. PES on the other hand well that drastically needs your "radical changes"

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Rod is an EA 'gamechanger' and was most likely under NDA, so wouldn't have been able to say anything anyway.

I totally agree with his last post. There's nothing wrong with confidence in a product but EA take it too far.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

I think Rod knew about it from FSB - it was news to me.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Rod is an EA 'gamechanger' and was most likely under NDA, so wouldn't have been able to say anything anyway.

I totally agree with his last post. There's nothing wrong with confidence in a product but EA take it too far.

If he's a game changer and has known about Euro 2012 for a very long time then i would of thought he would have known for a very long time if Fifa 13 is radically different to Fifa 12? Surly being a game changer he has played Fifa 13 already? I have no idea how game changers work but the title suggests that they change what EA come up with to what they want?

 

[Rodelero]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Yes, I knew through FSB for a while and couldn't say for obvious reasons. As for FIFA 13 - I know nothing. That should change soon if the last few years are anything to judge from.

As for what GameChangers are... we're really just a group that EA liase with closely for feedback. We have got to play early in the past, but, so far nothing this year (we may or may not be under NDA when we do). As for not being much of a FIFA fan... that depends on your meaning. I don't think FIFA is a particularly great game - I certainly don't think it deserves much of the praise afforded to it by the mainstream gaming media. Then again, I spend a lot of my time thinking about it, and playing it, and, a significant proportion of that time enjoying it. I think FIFA could be so much more, as a game and as a sim. That's all.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Yes, I knew through FSB for a while and couldn't say for obvious reasons. As for FIFA 13 - I know nothing. That should change soon if the last few years are anything to judge from.

As for what GameChangers are... we're really just a group that EA liase with closely for feedback. We have got to play early in the past, but, so far nothing this year (we may or may not be under NDA when we do). As for not being much of a FIFA fan... that depends on your meaning. I don't think FIFA is a particularly great game - I certainly don't think it deserves much of the praise afforded to it by the mainstream gaming media. Then again, I spend a lot of my time thinking about it, and playing it, and, a significant proportion of that time enjoying it. I think FIFA could be so much more, as a game and as a sim. That's all.

Do you really want a sim?

arguably the WC/Euro editions are some of the best FIFA's we've had

Totally agree with you here but those games were far more arcade orientated and were certainly more fun to play than any football title on current gen.

Fifa could be better yes but couldnt every game? We seem to live in a strange world where every game is over analysed even if that game is very good. Start getting in the habit of that and you just wont enjoy gaming.

 

[nerf]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

"As part of using the FIFA Engine and being DLC, there are no gameplay changes within Euro. FIFA gameplay is awesome".

As you touched upon, this is just video game marketing speak for: "we either can't or don't wish to spare the manpower required to dev & QA complex changes, it's far more efficient to apply new assets and front-end to what we've got." It makes complete sense, really, from the perspective of a specialised title released on this schedule. Streamlines development greatly, as well as facilitating the many benefits of electronic distribution.

In comparison to the main series, the tournament titles aren't in the same bracket. World Cup 2010 sold around 2.5m copies (Euro 2008 half that), compared to the 10m/11m that the last three main FIFA titles have each shipped. On that basis, it makes sense to divert less resource.

And what is the punter's impulse to buy the tournament game? Is it the quality of the game itself, or are they just looking for the authenticity of the tournament? I don't know the market research but I wouldn't be surprised if it indicated the latter.

Clearly EA don't necessarily believe what their marketing mouth says, but, it simply isn't healthy for game development to be going on under this delusion in regards to gameplay. A little humility might go a long way.

Marketing and humility are yet to be acquainted, as you know. It's just positive spin, a way to avoid ending the blurb on the negative 'there are no gameplay changes'.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Do you really want a sim?

I'm pretty sure I do, yes. FIFA could be a lot better without being a sim, but, ideally, I want a really solid sim. I want to be able to lose myself in the game, immersed in football... not constantly having the illusion shattered.

Totally agree with you here but those games were far more arcade orientated and were certainly more fun to play than any football title on current gen.

They were more enjoyable generally because they tended to make fairly unambitious improvements to the previous game, and therefore in terms of gameplay they have been by far the most polished versions almost every time. The main FIFA's have all too often made bigger changes and then lacked polish leading to major balance issues (or worse in the case of the Impact Engine).

They certainly aren't 'far more arcade oriented' than the main FIFA's. Some of them were, to be fair, but, I don't think FIFA 10 WC was significantly more arcade than FIFA 10 or FIFA 11. It's not like one is arcade and one is sim. Either way, it's not the realistic portions of the game which frustrate me in FIFA. That's how I can gauge that I want a sim.

It's more important to me that the game plays well, than it is that it is realistic, but I want both, and, to a large extent, I don't think the two can be separated with a football game.

Fifa could be better yes but couldnt every game? We seem to live in a strange world where every game is over analysed even if that game is very good. Start getting in the habit of that and you just wont enjoy gaming.

Fortunately, even though I am a very harsh critic of the games I play, I have no problems 'enjoying' gaming. I have played some absolutely fantastic games this generation, and am more in love with my hobby than I ever have been.

FIFA just isn't one of those games. It is in some ways - I don't think I've ever had more fun gaming than I have, at times, done on Clubs on FIFA 10 and 11 - but I find myself endlessly frustrated with recurrent flaws year after year after year.

You're right - every game could be better. Not only that, but FIFA is much better than most games and I think it is the best of the football games right now overall. Let's be clear though - FIFA 12 is not a game bordering on perfection which I'm nit picking at. It's a game with lots, and lots of problems which you can find endless discussion of.

As you touched upon, this is just video game marketing speak for: "we either can't or don't wish to spare the manpower required to dev & QA complex changes, it's far more efficient to apply new assets and front-end to what we've got." It makes complete sense, really, from the perspective of a specialised title released on this schedule. Streamlines development greatly, as well as facilitating the many benefits of electronic distribution.

In comparison to the main series, the tournament titles aren't in the same bracket. World Cup 2010 sold around 2.5m copies (Euro 2008 half that), compared to the 10m/11m that the last three main FIFA titles have each shipped. On that basis, it makes sense to divert less resource.

And what is the punter's impulse to buy the tournament game? Is it the quality of the game itself, or are they just looking for the authenticity of the tournament? I don't know the market research but I wouldn't be surprised if it indicated the latter.

I'm a bit of a cynic, but given that most people buy FIFA because they want the 'authenticity of football', I'm pretty sure that will also be the reason why most people buy the Euro/WC/CL spinoffs. In the bigger picture, most of FIFA's problems probably boil down to the fact that the game's sales don't correlate especially well to the game's quality. Pretty much the problem with all of gaming these days (or capitalism in general).

Marketing and humility are yet to be acquainted, as you know. It's just positive spin, a way to avoid ending the blurb on the negative 'there are no gameplay changes'.

I think it's one thing to be confident in your title, but just occasionally it tips over into being arrogance which bites a little, especially when so many people are incredibly frustrated with FIFA's gameplay. It's the kind of thing you don't see from smaller developers because they can't get away with it.

 

[winston]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

It makes it a very easy decision to not buy.

The previous Euro and WC games have been tempting to buy only because of the tweaked gameplay, so at least it will feel slightly different, the qualification mode, with all the minor nations, and the Captain Your Country mode.

FIFA12 gameplay against cpu is as bad as it's always been with this engine, with only the sliders, which mask the underlying scripted monotony, making it briefly bearable for a couple of weeks, until it sinks in that they are just a facade.

Even if they gave away this downloadable content as a freebie, I wouldn't bother. It sounds as exciting as one of Konami's bootpacks.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

I'm pretty sure I do, yes. FIFA could be a lot better without being a sim, but, ideally, I want a really solid sim. I want to be able to lose myself in the game, immersed in football... not constantly having the illusion shattered.

Alan Curdie says it best as he has always thought the same as myself on this whole Sim / Arcade approach a full on sim would be boring they need to get the right balance of both arcade and sim like they done with the WC game and Fifa 09 and like Konami had once done with PES on PS1 & PS2. Full on sims tend to only be for the PC as just look at GT5 or Forza 4 which are the perfect balance of both Sim/Arcade which makes them sell on console's, If iRacing was out on console's it would get no where near the sales of the to i mention. Another example would be Tennis Elbow which is supposed to be the best Tennis sim around that game would be lucky to sell 250k on a console and it's sales get dwarfed by games like Topspin on consoles.

Games have to be fun for people and a full on sim football title would not be fun unless of course you love games like Tennis Elbow which is a niche market. I dont think EA or Konami are ever going to give you what your looking for but if the Tennis Elbow devs ever made a football game you'd most likely love it.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

For a lot of people who use the term 'sim' on this topic, they aren't talking about a footballing equivalent of MS Flight Simulator. Usually they mean something that captures the essence of modern football, with depth of player/team individuality, and also depth in terms of controlling (and representing) different methods of striking the ball for shots/passes. Generally speaking, nobody means a title that consists of 45 minute halves, where everything is exactly 1:1 with football. I only know of one or two posters who do want such a thing, but even then, I think they accept it should be an extreme that you can reach with sliders and the like, rather than the default experience.

Sim doesn't just mean 'harder' either - manual controls are much harder than assisted/semi, but are still a step away from simulation, rather than towards. It's more that the balance of the current game, and where the difficulty/challenge lies, needs repositioning. FIFA has a long way to go in terms of recreating modern football. It does very well in certain aspects, but the passing and movement, and defending against that movement, still have a lot to do. PES still handles those areas better than FIFA - you could never faithfully recreate an Athletic Bilbao/Barca/Swansea performance in FIFA 12. Man Utd's performances against Bilbao, maybe.

 

[Nobleknight]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

For a lot of people who use the term 'sim' on this topic, they aren't talking about a footballing equivalent of MS Flight Simulator. Usually they mean something that captures the essence of modern football, with depth of player/team individuality, and also depth in terms of controlling (and representing) different methods of striking the ball for shots/passes. Generally speaking, nobody means a title that consists of 45 minute halves, where everything is exactly 1:1 with football. I only know of one or two posters who do want such a thing, but even then, I think they accept it should be an extreme that you can reach with sliders and the like, rather than the default experience.

Sim doesn't just mean 'harder' either - manual controls are much harder than assisted/semi, but are still a step away from simulation, rather than towards. It's more that the balance of the current game, and where the difficulty/challenge lies, needs repositioning. FIFA has a long way to go in terms of recreating modern football. It does very well in certain aspects, but the passing and movement, and defending against that movement, still have a lot to do. PES still handles those areas better than FIFA - you could never faithfully recreate an Athletic Bilbao/Barca/Swansea performance in FIFA 12. Man Utd's performances against Bilbao, maybe.

True fifa has a lot of work to do to capture the modern football intelligence
Even PES has its problems but its a lot closer than fifa to capture those things.Fifa have the tech but doesn't have physics logic (footplanting,wrong footing,the moment between stopping and running at full speed).Fifa's AI is still a gen behind PES' one despite the balancing issues in PES but at least they are going to a more intelligence approach rather than the tech one.If fifa13 is going to be a good game of football ,it will need a massive AI improvements.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

I don't think it's a gen behind actually. The core of FIFA's AI is actually quite good, very good in certain respects. That's not to say the end result is good/great, but I don't think a complete rewrite is in order - again, it's more about application of what they have, combined with one or two more serious changes. I think they actually have quite a lot in there, but aren't using it effectively, partly because they haven't given it the same attention as other more immediately obvious areas.

The hope is that a year of making it THE focus, combined with EA really investigating what it would take to recreate pass and move play, might be enough to make big strides. We don't know anything about 13 yet, but I'm optimistic that they will give AI more emphasis than in previous years because of the noises we've been making.

 

[Nobleknight]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

I don't think it's a gen behind actually. The core of FIFA's AI is actually quite good, very good in certain respects. That's not to say the end result is good/great, but I don't think a complete rewrite is in order - again, it's more about application of what they have, combined with one or two more serious changes. I think they actually have quite a lot in there, but aren't using it effectively, partly because they haven't given it the same attention as other more immediately obvious areas.

The hope is that a year of making it THE focus, combined with EA really investigating what it would take to recreate pass and move play, might be enough to make big strides. We don't know anything about 13 yet, but I'm optimistic that they will give AI more emphasis than in previous years because of the noises we've been making.

I agree with you ,EA has the power to improve it in a year if they focused on it.I wonder why they don't solve their game problems and bugs rather than adding new features with its own problems!
I hope they can surprise us by better AI in fifa13

 

[henrys hand]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Yes, I knew through FSB for a while and couldn't say for obvious reasons. As for FIFA 13 - I know nothing. That should change soon if the last few years are anything to judge from.

As for what GameChangers are... we're really just a group that EA liase with closely for feedback. We have got to play early in the past, but, so far nothing this year (we may or may not be under NDA when we do). As for not being much of a FIFA fan... that depends on your meaning. I don't think FIFA is a particularly great game - I certainly don't think it deserves much of the praise afforded to it by the mainstream gaming media. Then again, I spend a lot of my time thinking about it, and playing it, and, a significant proportion of that time enjoying it. I think FIFA could be so much more, as a game and as a sim. That's all.

I agree, Fifa 12 is far from perfect:

1. The AI needs a considerable upgrade to become context-sensitive and intelligent as well as to humanise the CPU-AI. Right now playing single-player is a bit boring and that is because of the lame AI.

2. Stamina and fatigue need to be better implemented, best to add some sliders for that.

3. Gamespeed is a bit too fast, even with the setting on slow. There need to be sliders for gamespeed, turning, jogging, running, ballspeed on the ground and one for the air...

4. I can foul and get fouled brutally in Fifa 12 without the referee seeing it, just because I or the CPU touched the ball after the foul. There is something wrong here.

5. Around the players seems to be a force-field that keeps them apart. I'm on the left-field-side and want my teammember to run that side along but then he comes a bit closer and changes his mind because I'm there. He wasn't able to just run near me and get through as if a forcefield denied him this lane. That's just awful.

6. It should be possible to tell your nearby teammember to come nearer or to run in that or this direction easily and quickly as if you were on the pitch giving out signs or screaming...

7. What about inertia and momentum? It's hardly noticeable in Fifa 12, but it's a very important concept/mechanic that needs to be implemented. Proper footplanting would be nice, too, this skating gets on the nerves.

8. More individuality for players and teams.

Yes, Fifa 12 is currently better than PES 2012, but there is so much that needs to be improved and it would be a mistake for EA to rest on its laurels now.

 

[Rodelero]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Alan Curdie says it best as he has always thought the same as myself on this whole Sim / Arcade approach a full on sim would be boring they need to get the right balance of both arcade and sim like they done with the WC game and Fifa 09 and like Konami had once done with PES on PS1 & PS2. Full on sims tend to only be for the PC as just look at GT5 or Forza 4 which are the perfect balance of both Sim/Arcade which makes them sell on console's, If iRacing was out on console's it would get no where near the sales of the to i mention. Another example would be Tennis Elbow which is supposed to be the best Tennis sim around that game would be lucky to sell 250k on a console and it's sales get dwarfed by games like Topspin on consoles.

Games have to be fun for people and a full on sim football title would not be fun unless of course you love games like Tennis Elbow which is a niche market. I dont think EA or Konami are ever going to give you what your looking for but if the Tennis Elbow devs ever made a football game you'd most likely love it.

It depends greatly on what you mean by a sim, and this is an eternal debate, but, personally I'm looking for something which attempts to simulate as much as the sport as possible within the constraints of hardware, controls, and short match times.

As Romagnoli has said, this really isn't like a driving game where you control every aspect of a car. This is a game where you take some control over what is essentially a piece of artificial intelligence in a pseudo-simulation of a football match. For that reason (again, as he said) it doesn't have to be difficult like a flight simulator or tennis elbow... it just shouldn't neglect things like pass error as FIFA does so much.

The key to a convincing sim of this type is to make sure that as many aspects of real football are simulated as possible, and ensuring that the AI reacts as realistically as possible. This is what produces the most realistic, most immersive experience... and frankly most people want a game which they can forget is fake.

I want a game which can, to the best of its ability, distill a 90 minute football match in a convincing way in a 15-20 minute period. That would be exciting enough for me. Obviously, to make that work some things have to be unrealistic, but, at the very least EA should attempt to simulate each aspect of football and then tune it so it works, rather than having a game which more or less neglects things like pass accuracy, dribbling error and so on.

I think sliders/other options are the key to making sure FIFA can be a sim for one person and a more casual experience to another (I describe this in detail here: http://fifasoccerblog.com/blog/xaors-corner-a-hardcore-solution/)

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

For me a football sim is one that conveys the highest sense of player individuality possible with a deep, flexible and effective tactical element. It should replicate such things as variable first touch and errant touches (especially when sprinting), a believable sense of player inertia, a realistic stamina system, intelligent AI that can make realistic runs and find space (according to player stats such as intelligence and positioning), etc......

The arcade element is condensing all this down into a video game time frame i.e. the 10-15 minute match. So inevitably concessions have to be made.

 

[lancers]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Maybe we get a more sim like experience on next gen eqt. So I guess we all got what we wanted. DLC Euro. I thought they might implement some of the graphics from Street. I think I'll pass on this.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

So it seems people dont really want a sim they just want the game how they would like the game to play in their mind. For me PES on the PS2 played lifelike at times but it also had that crazy fun factor in that was totally unrealistic but for a computer game it was believable, for me that is where football titles should be going not sure Konami decided that was the wrong way and the new style of gameplay on PES is the right way? Fifa has never managed to capture the fun factor of PES and that's purely down to being obsessed with trying to hard to create the perfect sim which of course it isnt.

 

[Nobleknight]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

PES' way on next gen is the right way esp PES2011 .For fifa it never captured the randomness of PES ,that's why it feels static and boring after awhile.PES has the gameplay but not the tech while fifa has the tech but there's no depth at all in its gameplay.
The only thing I miss from PES PS2 is the individuality which is not that great in PES2012.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

PES' way on next gen is the right way esp PES2011 .For fifa it never captured the randomness of PES ,that's why it feels static and boring after awhile.PES has the gameplay but not the tech while fifa has the tech but there's no depth at all in its gameplay.
The only thing I miss from PES PS2 is the individuality which is not that great in PES2012.

Dont agree, for me PES 2011 does not touch PES 3, 5 or even 6 infact it does not touch Fifa 08, 09, 11 or WC. If PES 2011 is held in high regard why does PES 2012 play nothing like it?

 

[pes4lyfe]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

fifa does lack randomness thats its major problem

 

[Ronaldinho_23]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

- no new gameplay
- no news in impact engine..
- The new boots, Shirts, balls, stadium....we can't use in normal fifa 12...


19€? ....the world is crazy

 

[Nobleknight]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

Dont agree, for me PES 2011 does not touch PES 3, 5 or even 6 infact it does not touch Fifa 08, 09, 11 or WC. If PES 2011 is held in high regard why does PES 2012 play nothing like it?

remember PES2011 was the base and typical konami change what wasn't broken.It only needed building on it not changing it all.PES3&5 were better than the arcady PES6.And fifa11 was totally broken by fight for position thingy ,it was about the strongest players only.

 

[Gab_]

Re: No Euro Game From EA

For me a football sim is one that conveys the highest sense of player individuality possible with a deep, flexible and effective tactical element. It should replicate such things as variable first touch and errant touches (especially when sprinting), a believable sense of player inertia, a realistic stamina system, intelligent AI that can make realistic runs and find space (according to player stats such as intelligence and positioning), etc......

The arcade element is condensing all this down into a video game time frame i.e. the 10-15 minute match. So inevitably concessions have to be made.