English football at risk from French revolution

[lo zio]

@ Lo Zio - Firstly, let me just say I'm really enjoying your posts, keep em long and interesting!

thanks mate.
as for your points, well i don't have in front of me the balance sheets of man utd or chelsea, so i just can't talk about it.

but the main point is not really wich is their current situation. economics are a very volatile and dynamic matter (just to make an example, morgan stanley, merryll linch they were all giants just one year ago, they seemed to be solid as rocks... and look what happened. fiorentina and lazio themselves were giants just a couple of months before the tragedy... lazio especially was much stronger than inter or chelsea are today).

the real point is where are our life nets? do our rules protect our clubs from what our owners could potentially do? that's the real point.

auditors do not exsist because all our companies will definitely face bankruptcy or "fix" their balance sheets. auditors are there just to avoid the companies's board from doing such things. to prevent theese risks.

i don't think the glazers or abramovich are "evil", of course.
but i do believe that we all always do what it's best for us. and sometimes, what is best for us is not what is best for our companies.

so it's important to have controls and bodies who can prevent us from screwing our companies, just to fulfill our own interests.

u might think "yeah but this is just not going to happen".... well tell it to a lazio fan.... and if someone thinks abramovich would not do exactly the same things cragnotti did, well that man is just a naive fall guy. cragnotti was not "evil". he just did what was best for him. that's it

 

[T Butcher fan]

Lo Zio - in one glance I can tell that you've missed the point again. You have certainly got a tendency to ramble....

In a nutshell, just because the Italians fucked up does not mean that we will. (Although it is very likely!) Furthermore, I dispute that Italian football ever reached the popularity that English football is enjoying nowadays. And finally, I still think my point is a valid one - the people investing in English football are vastly richer than those who got so carried away in Italy.

But to bring everything back to the point of this thread - if the French league is such a soaring success, why does no one watch it and why do all young talented French players leave the country as soon as possible?

 

[gerd]

I understand what you are saying about bankrupt clubs Ben, but honestly i don't really care as does big clubs come back pretty soon (Fiorentina being the best example). My favourite club (RWDM) did some fradulent things (some sort of tax evasions it's too complicated to explain to people outside Belgian, it has something to do with our exceptional social security system which is unique in the world..the person who had to decide weahter my favourite fooball club fullfilled it' obligatiobns or not was... my wife...she decided that RWDM did not fullfill it's obligations and they got relegated to the lowest league in Belgium, which is 8 divisions...which is something else than Fiorentina).

What i care about is fair competition...i care more about football and fair competition than about a single football club no matter if it's my favourite club. Beside taht i totally agree with you.

Terry, you know that i like you much, but i think you underestimate Italian and French football. Chelsea was lucky that Abramovich became their owner (that is: lucky in short term)but the club had no merit at all before that...the previous owner was a rascal (i forgot his name, but i think he became involved with Leeds afterwards). They became the world's second club by pure luck... and yes maybe the Italians and Spaniards would'nt support Platini if their league was the most popular one and the richest (and yes arguably the best, although i'm not entirely convinced about that) but think about the other countries, because the gap between Italy, Spain, France and Germany on the one hand and the other leagues like the Belgian, Dutch, Portuges and all the rest is bigger tha nthe gap between thepremiership and and 4 above mentioned leagues...

Once again: sports need fair competition in the long term and today there is no fair competition...not in the premiership, not between the premiership and the other English leagues and not in Europe. People will get bored when the semi-finals of the CL will be played year after year with clubs like Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal or Liverpool...of course the fans of these clubs will not be bored (and i even doubt about that)....but what about the rest ???

 

[gerd]

But to bring everything back to the point of this thread - if the French league is such a soaring success, why does no one watch it and why do all young talented French players leave the country as soon as possible?

Because of money young talented players leave France...saying that no one watches is a big exageration...

Beachryan, the players you mentioned went to Man Utd because of money...Ajax is a bigger club than Man Utd in terms of European success...in terms of appeal (very subjective) clubs like Benfica, Boca Juniors, were as big as Man Utd in Cantona's days (i.e. before merchandising and branding became big in football).

 

[T Butcher fan]

Chelsea was lucky that Abramovich became their owner (that is: lucky in short term)but the club had no merit at all before that...

Just because countless Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool fans say it doesn't make it true Gerd. For a start, in the 5 years before Abramovich this no merit club had qualified for the champions league twice, plus we won the FA Cup twice, the League Cup and the European Cup Winners Cup.

We were in financial trouble before Abramovich came along, but he wasn't our only alternative. His arch-enemy Beresovsky was also interested, as well as a consortium fronted by Eddie Jordan - we were hardly about to disappear. Not bad for a club of no merit.

 

[T Butcher fan]

Because of money young talented players leave France...

And this brings me back to my point. Stop European clubs from over-spending and someone else will just take their place.

No legislation will work unless it is worldwide, but my opinion is that Platini only has eyes for England and hasn't thought this through.

 

[lo zio]

Lo Zio - in one glance I can tell that you've missed the point again. You have certainly got a tendency to ramble....

i'm sorry mate, and i hope u won't consider this as an attack, as (trust me) it isn't, but u're the one who's rambling.

i'm telling u what sarkozy's proposal is about, wich are this body's aims (wich, i guess was the point of the topic) while u're saying that there's no point in applying this "tool" in premierhsip just because ligue un is less popular then epl!!
isn't this rambling? isn't this a bit shortsighted (at least)?

besides, and by saying that i'm also replying th your 2nd point (the success of ligue 1), do u really base the quality of something on his popularity????
so i guess u think brad pitt is the greatest actor ever, the big brother and baywatch are the best tv programs, christina aguilera or britney spears are the greatests singers....
i know, now i am the one who's rambling, but honestly that's what u imply when u say that.

if the French league is such a soaring success, why does no one watch it

however i really couldn't be more exhaustive than i was and don't think i could add anything interesting anymore to this conversation.

if u think u don't need a covisoc or a dcng, just because u think abramovich won't ever do what everyone else would do (or because u would never import anything from a "low class" league as ligue un) then it's ok.
but then i wonder, why did britain imported the auditors system from (surprise surprise) france? couldn't u guys just trust british companies CEOs??

but my opinion is that Platini only has eyes for England and hasn't thought this through

that's what u want to see.
if u would look further, u would realise that platini is also remarking all the serie a flaws (but our reaction is very different from the english reaction)
but if u keep reading (and trusting) martin samuel, u won't ever understand this.

 

[T Butcher fan]

Lo Zio, I’m not having a go at you either, but I just think you have missed the point. Either way, we have both spent too long on this and this is the last thing I will say, my BAL is suffering!

a lot of what you say is right

At no point have I ever said that the Premiership is good – in fact I don’t like it. Like the Champions League, it has been designed for the mindless Man Utd and Liverpool supporting fucktards who can’t be bothered to support their local team but can sit in front of their TV.

I'm not saying the Premiership is excellent, by the way. My objection is to copying a model which is 30 years out of date.

However, the French League is not competitive. You can tell me the race for 7th place is a nail biter, but the fact is the same team has won it, and will win it for many years to come. Therefore, I don’t want any part of that model.

Financial stability is important – I firmly believe that Premiership clubs (possibly my own) will self destruct unless they take steps

In a nutshell, just because the Italians fucked up does not mean that we will. (Although it is very likely!)

I also believe we must stop stealing youth from other countries and work on our own training systems. We have let down a generation of young lads.

I agree with the idea of preventing transfers of U18 players

But implementing a model that has caused stagnation in French football, where all its talent goes abroad will not work.

Stop European clubs from over-spending and someone else will just take their place. No legislation will work unless it is worldwide, but my opinion is that Platini only has eyes for England and hasn't thought this through.

We’ve talked before about Platini and I take on board what you say, but Platini’s comments on English football just come too frequently for me to believe anything else nowadays.

I like some of his ideas, and the principles are correct but at the end of the day he is just an ex-footballer whose ideal is to return football to how it was in his day. It won’t work.

 

[gerd]

Terry when i said that Chelsea had "no merit" i think you misunderstood me, i know they won silverware before Roman (since their win the FA Cup against Leeds in the 70's i always liked Chelsea and followed them).

But why exactly did Abramovich choose Chelsea ??? He could have chosen Spurs or QPR or Sheffield Wednesday or Luton...

But your last post proves that you are not blind for the shortcomings of English football (as i already knew).

It was fun discussing with you and Ben (like always).

 

[lo zio]

Lo Zio, I’m not having a go at you either, but I just think you have missed the point. Either way, we have both spent too long on this and this is the last thing I will say, my BAL is suffering!

i know u weren't. but being a non native english speaker i feel sometimes my words could be misunderstood and people might find me harsh, while the real problem is having to deal with a (still) poor repertory of english words

however, i heard yesterday that scudamore was supposed to express the FA position about this concern today.... any news?

It was fun discussing with you and Ben (like always).