ENGLAND thread - Chat Sh*t, Get Banged.

ss4_goku

Premiership
26 May 2004
Hong Kong / Toronto
Man Utd
Its not hard to defend when the opposition to passes around the ball on the outside and does crosses. No penetration at all from the English attackers until Rashford came in and started to cut into the Icelandic defense. And Kane taking free kicks, playing as if he's a winger....that's just horrible choice from Hodgson. And what did Sterling do to get an other start? And Rooney takes way too long to decide what to do with the ball slowing the game down and giving time to Iceland to set up their defense...and then to chase down on him or the receiver causing a turnover....just horrible
 

Han

Very senior member
22 December 2001
Holland
About a week ago a Dutch interviewer asked Hodgson some critical questions on the press-conference.
The reply was that the Dutch got no right to be critical because they did not even qualify.
Now I like to say to Hodgson: We did not qualify because we lost twice against Iceland. Maybe Iceland is not that bad at all.
Hodgson obviously underestimated Iceland...
 
Last edited:

fib91

One-kit wonder
29 December 2007
Greece
PAOK
Re: ENGLAND thread - Chat Sh*t, Get Bangedsson.

They were awful last night... I almost thought that Iceland were the favourites,the way they were playing. I hope they make it far,they clearly deserve to. Now England... My points about them finally got proven,I knew it from the start they weren't good enough to go far but all the press and even some people here insisted they have a good team... Good players =/= good team...
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
About a week ago a Dutch interviewer asked Hodgson some critical questions on the press-conference.
The reply was that the Dutch got no right to be critical because they did not even qualify.

God what an answer.
As a matter of fact Han, you once gave me a similar response about Belgium not qualifying when i was critical about the Dutch national team in one of the past tournaments...

Now about England.

Yesterday was bad. But the Elglish press and public are waaaay to negative imo. England was briljant against Russia, but somehow lost two points in that match.

Against Wales they played against a wall and somehow managed to win.

Slovakia never had the slightest intention to anything other than park the bus and England were unlucky not to score.

Yesterday the first half wasn't that bad. I saw good shots on goal from both Alli and Kane (and i probably forgot some attempts).

The second half was a disaster.

But as much sympathy i have for Iceland (and that is a lot), it is a miracle that Gunarsson got his first yellow in the second half. That guy should have had at least a yellow card in every single match he played...the referees let him make foul after foul.

If you have to play against three teams that are rather (Iceland), or very (Wales) or extremely (Slovakia) negative. You need some luck. England lacked that luck. With a better coach they could have gone to the semi-final, this is a promising team.

What is it with England that good GK's seem to make mistakes in big tournaments (Rob Greene come to my mind and now obviously Joe Hart, a very good Gk albeit not world class imo).

What was wrong with Dier yesterday? Was he sick? To me in the 3 previous matches he was one of the best players of the tournaments and i'm not the only one, pundits on Belgium television also said that he played 3 very good matches.

I don't understand Hodgson substitutions. He got it completely wro,ng against Russia. he kept on playing Sterling, didn't use a very good Lallana, ignored Vardy (Kane was poor throughout except for one good attempt in the first half yesterday) and it is very clear that Wilshere never should have been in the squad because he is not match fit.

Give conficence to much of these young players and the future looks brighter than you now think.

It will be strange to see Real madrid next season with 5 Icelandic players on the bench...
 

Han

Very senior member
22 December 2001
Holland
God what an answer.
As a matter of fact Han, you once gave me a similar response about Belgium not qualifying when i was critical about the Dutch national team in one of the past tournaments...
Either one of the two is the case: You mis understoot me or my English was bad, but I would never be like that. If you felt it like that I apology.
 

beachryan

Golden Boot Winner
4 July 2003
Bermuda
Imagine you're a coach, and you're playing Iceland. I've only seen them maybe 5 times, but here is what I know:

1. They defend incredibly deep and incredibly compact, almost a 4-6, rather than 4-3-3 without the ball.

2. Their main threat is from set pieces, and they have a really strong long throw option.

3. They're not all full-time professional elite athletes, at some point passion will give way to natural fitness.

Just given those 3 things, as a coach, what I'd say is:

1. Play uptempo, and use the wings. Play wide players in wide positions, involve the full backs, and get the ball out wide early and quickly.

2. Don't concede stupid free kicks, and don't play the ball out for throw ins unless it's impossible not to.

3. We'll make subs at 60 mins, but the wide players will run into the ground to force a fast match, and tire them out going into the final 30 minutes.

Roy literally did the opposite. Slow, patient buildup against a team that are organised and defensive. Players constantly unnecessarily playing it out for throw ins and corners. No use of wide players whatsoever, in fact Sterling and Sturridge appeared to want to both be strikers, forcing Kane out wide where is utterly terrible.

I thought LVG was the worst of the dinosaur, too-stubborn-to-acknowledge-what-is-actually-happening managers left, but Roy is challenging him!

Then saving Rashford for the last 3 minutes...wow.
 

Isslander

Gordon's alive!
3 August 2003
Iceland
Liverpool
I don't see England coming back in the next WC. They will probably do well in qualifying, and the country will become optimistic again, only to mess things up one more time. It has become such a long tale of dissappointment, they need to take proper time to build. Maybe something will happen for them in 2020 but that's probably still too early.

I suppose having a good manager might speed things along... who the hell has a written speech of resignation ready in case you lose to a team that everyone expects you to win? Woy, who else.
 
Last edited:

cosmo

El Frentudo
15 September 2015
Rooney at one point started misplacing passes at a high frequency, a good coach takes him off at that point, now we will never know what could have been if he did, Rashford for example did all the right things after he was taken in, a shame that Roy forgot his balls, now he's gone and it's worse for Rooney as well.
 

ss4_goku

Premiership
26 May 2004
Hong Kong / Toronto
Man Utd
It was more the coaches fault than the players but the players are not clear of blame. Against such a side, someone must cut in and move the defense...get them running, moving around, create space...They were so organized that a slow tempo is just suicide.

Look at what Rashford did in those 4 minutes. If he was on earlier cutting in and creating some problems, we would've had a lot more chances and with some luck, it could've been 2-2 and who knows what might happen then. Worst thing is that this was Hodgson's 3rd tournament, a lot of youth are brought in, and this was supposed to be the tournament to improve on, but now the players will get a lot of blame, an overhaul will be done (mainly due to the press), and we'll screw it up for 2018 again.
 

mattmid

International
15 December 2011
I think part of the problem is we no longer have an identity to the way we play, we don't have a Modric, Hamsik, Iniesta type player to create and probe and dictate in midfield yet often we try to play that way. Instead of pass and move we seem to pass and then stand still. So many times Rooney and later Wilshire had no options with the ball as there was a line of three or four players standing right up on the defence, nobody was making runs or offering themselves for a pass. So often an English player would have the ball and be lucky to find a team mate within 10 yards of him, consequently the ball would go slowly backwards or sideways.

We apparently had intended to play wide and get crosses in. I recall one from Sturridge that Kane hit a great volley from but straight at the keeper. Other than that I think Rose had one that was blocked for a corner.


The tactics were baffling at best and turned into a shapeless mess in the second half. Sven Goran Erikkson said many years ago that English players have no intelligence to react to changes on the pitch and figure it out for himself, perhaps he's correct.

My biggest bugbear of all - playing players out of position.

At what point during the season did Hodgson watch Vardy playing so well for Leicester and scoring goals and think I'm going to pick him in the England squad and play him out wide??? Likewise with Sturridge, spending the whole game out on the right wing.

Rooney, well as he has played at times in midfield for Utd and in the group games is an inexperienced midfielder. We're looking for an equaliser and our all time record goalscorer is floating around in midfield looking lost, trying too hard and giving the ball away. Then Hodgson looks to an 18yr old to sort it out (and he did more in his 5 mins than the rest of them put together)


Then you have his strange squad selections. Sterling has been awful for City all season and if he'd been playing for a lesser club wouldn't have been anywhere near that squad. Wilshere on the back of a game or two all season, clearly not match fit. Drinkwater, probably the best English midfielder in the Premier last season not even taken, while Barkley was taken and clearly not trusted as never used.

Townsend brought into the initial 26 squad and given 15 mins as a sub in the three friendly games and discarded, why bother picking him for the initial squad and not giving him a chance. I think he's a bit of a one trick pony but he was exactly what we could have done with against Iceland.


Anyway this turned into a rant now so I'll stop :LOL:
 

geeeeee

International
2 May 2010
London
Tottenham
I think part of the problem is we no longer have an identity to the way we play, we don't have a Modric, Hamsik, Iniesta type player to create and probe and dictate in midfield yet often we try to play that way. Instead of pass and move we seem to pass and then stand still. So many times Rooney and later Wilshire had no options with the ball as there was a line of three or four players standing right up on the defence, nobody was making runs or offering themselves for a pass. So often an English player would have the ball and be lucky to find a team mate within 10 yards of him, consequently the ball would go slowly backwards or sideways.

We apparently had intended to play wide and get crosses in. I recall one from Sturridge that Kane hit a great volley from but straight at the keeper. Other than that I think Rose had one that was blocked for a corner.


The tactics were baffling at best and turned into a shapeless mess in the second half. Sven Goran Erikkson said many years ago that English players have no intelligence to react to changes on the pitch and figure it out for himself, perhaps he's correct.

My biggest bugbear of all - playing players out of position.

At what point during the season did Hodgson watch Vardy playing so well for Leicester and scoring goals and think I'm going to pick him in the England squad and play him out wide??? Likewise with Sturridge, spending the whole game out on the right wing.

Rooney, well as he has played at times in midfield for Utd and in the group games is an inexperienced midfielder. We're looking for an equaliser and our all time record goalscorer is floating around in midfield looking lost, trying too hard and giving the ball away. Then Hodgson looks to an 18yr old to sort it out (and he did more in his 5 mins than the rest of them put together)


Then you have his strange squad selections. Sterling has been awful for City all season and if he'd been playing for a lesser club wouldn't have been anywhere near that squad. Wilshere on the back of a game or two all season, clearly not match fit. Drinkwater, probably the best English midfielder in the Premier last season not even taken, while Barkley was taken and clearly not trusted as never used.

Townsend brought into the initial 26 squad and given 15 mins as a sub in the three friendly games and discarded, why bother picking him for the initial squad and not giving him a chance. I think he's a bit of a one trick pony but he was exactly what we could have done with against Iceland.


Anyway this turned into a rant now so I'll stop :LOL:

I agree with everything you say. I know the players should have been able to play better but the tactics messed them up big time. I really think that England had a good opportunity to at least get to the semis but playing players out of position affected them. The width that Rose and Walker had brought in previous games was nullified by playing Sturridge wide right and Sterling wide left, I don't remember Walker getting forward once in the Iceland game and he seemed to lack a bit of confidence.

Also, Kane and Vardy should have played together more often (even though Kane was off the pace). There was one piece of link up play when Kane played Vardy through against Iceland. It showed what they could have done if played more together to build up the partnership. And again why why WHY have Kane take free kicks and corners.

As mentioned before Rooney should have played more attacking and maybe swapping around with Ali taking it in turns in making runs into the box. I actually thought that Ali played ok despite what some say and he made many good runs into the box but was not picked out with the right ball. Also, Dier should have stayed deep and played more simple balls because his long balls were pretty poor.

And yes Townsend should have gone because he would have given them width and pace. Wilshere should have been left behind.

It shows what difference a good coach and manager makes, just look at what Coleman has done at Wales and what Hallgrimsson and Lagerback have done at Iceland.


:LOL:
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
I can't remember the last time Rooney has made a decent performance, with England or MU.

Then you have either a very short or a very selective memory:

Fa Cup final for United.

I only saw one English match at the Euro's, the one gainst Russia and IMO Rooney was very good in that match. I also heard pundit say the same after the match against Wales.

This is typical for England (an perhaps most football fans): when things went their way Rooney was terrific, afterwards when they were eliminated it turned out that he was shit.


IMO England played a very decent tournament.

Euro 2016 are a shit tournament, every team that plays good football is eliminated (i'm not talking about Belgium) and a team like Portugal could still win it.

I hope France or Germany win it.

I like the team spirit of Wales and they deservedly won against us, they even scored the goal of the tournament (Robson Kanu's against Belgium was a beauty in the build-up and in the finishing), but you can't say they play beautifull football...

This tournament is the funeral of international football...the reason? Bad coaches....Conte is a class apart....but the rest are poor or very, very, very poor or abysmal (Wilmots).
 

Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Rooney shouldn't be in the squad. Full Stop. We're going to qualify with or without him. Give the responsibility to his successor so that whoever that is is ready for an actual tournament.

Rooney's time is over, we don't need him to qualify, but we let politics get in the way of moving on and improving. It happened with Beckham and it's the same with Rooney. He is done.
 

Gunslinger

Premiership
5 September 2016
Yep, time to move on from Rooney. Not sure Hart should be England's number one keeper anymore either. Can't be trusted at the highest level after his performance in France.
 

beachryan

Golden Boot Winner
4 July 2003
Bermuda
I suffered through that match and am not sure why Rooney is the one getting all the hammering, other than being Rooney. He was far, far better than Henderson who basically was a quality vacuum who ran around a bit, and Dier who genuinely looked like he'd never been taught to pass the ball forward. Basically the two other midfielders just kept passing it to Rooney asking him to do something against 10 defenders. Which he failed to do, but still, very few players would have. See Delli Alli when he came on who utterly, utterly garbage.

But when we're celebrating how 'dangerous' Lallana was at the Euros and how it's great to see that continue here, might clue you into the problem. He's scored 1 goal in 27 matches, as an attacking player.

Issue for me is this obsession with safe passing that has become standard in international football. Players are taught not to take any risks, and so almost every match is attack against defence, where in fact the defending team gets the most dangerous chances. Trust me, I had to watch LVG's United for 2 years. The sooner we get back to possession being second to creating chances, the sooner international football will become watchable again.
 

Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
My post is less about Rooney's performance the other night and more about the folly of centering the team around a declining player who is only going to be worse in 2018. Henderson is pretty crap, for sure.
 

beachryan

Golden Boot Winner
4 July 2003
Bermuda
That's entirely true. I'd like Rooney to gracefully retire from international and club football if I'm honest, but that's not going to happen. Can't really blame the man - in his older years he's been an excellent ambassador of football, and wants to keep going.

England should just look to build using the great young players available, and put them in their best positions:
---------------Hart(assuming he plays)-----------------
-Walker-------Smalling----Stones------------Shaw----
--------------Dier--------------Delph-------------------
-----------------------Alli---------------------------------
--Rashford------------------------------Sterling---------
----------------------Kane-------------------------------

And put Sturridge in the 2 times a season he's fit, and maybe find someone else for Delph.
 

Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Bulk of that team, including the Player of the Tournament, nurtured by Chelsea and City. If this generation amounts to anything, unlike past "golden generations", there's gonna be quite a bit of humble pie being eaten
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
We all know that these players only chance is to do what Jaydon Sancho did, leaving the big club with the bright shiny academy and go abroad.
The EPL doesn't give a shit about English football.
I even have my doubts about Spurs. A year ago Pocchetino claimde Marcus' Edwards was as good as Messi, well he doesn't play him in the fist team...

Most of these players will never be regulars in the EPL. The EPL Neede big foreign players more than English ones...
 
Top Bottom