ENGLAND thread - Chat Sh*t, Get Banged.

andy18cruz

Sth, sth ... dark side
29 September 2013
Portugal
SL Benfica
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

I like Pirlo very much, but he's no demi-god, specially now, on his late 30's. Pirlo defensively does not run. On England goal he's jogging, when Sterling was scanning the field and ultimately made a huge pass. His defence is only positional. He does not even go for the easy interceptions.

Offensively, he rarely misses a pass, controls the tempo of a game and barely losses the ball. But he does not run either. You don't need two men to control him. Benfica prove that on the EL semis. We put our second striker (Rodrigo) on him, when he was closer to his CB's and our CMF (Enzo Pérez) when he was going forward. You cannot block him totally, but you can disrupt the rhythm of the team. Juve played very slow paced game, and Benfica could control the majority of the match, even without the ball.

You constantly need to have two "workhorses" on the midfield to compensate his deficiencies. Gattuso/Sedoorf, De Rossi/Marchisio, Vidal/Pogba. It's still worth it, because he sees the game like no other and execute it like a “maestro”, but I'm sick of people praising him, when they completely forget that he has a lot of deficiencies on his game (Contrary to a player like Xavi, which can to a similar role, but be efficient in both aspects of the game).

As for England, I think Hodgson made a crucial mistake on the game plan. Playing Rooney on the sides is not a good idea. He give it all, but his not effective, especially since he’s not been the same for a number of years (he seems to lack the explosion and speed that he had before). Sterling played well in a more central role (but was a beast when he was moved to the right), but still, Rooney behind Sturridge would’ve been better IMO.
 

Milanista

Mangiamoli!
Staff
19 December 2002
London & Milan
AC Milan
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

I agree Pirlo can sometimes be limited when he's double marked, but I think Prandelli knew it... that's why Verratti played. Verratti also has that creativity Pirlo has, so would've been the plan B if Pirlo was marked out of the game. This is why I think Prandelli nailed his tactics :)
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

I like Pirlo very much, but he's no demi-god, specially now, on his late 30's. Pirlo defensively does not run. On England goal he's jogging, when Sterling was scanning the field and ultimately made a huge pass. His defence is only positional. He does not even go for the easy interceptions.

i didn't say he's a demi-god and i didn't say he's a great athlete or a good defensive midfielder (because he isn't). what i wrote is that u can't possibly hope to stop him by assigning one player on man marking over him. and that is true now as it was 2, 4, or 6 years ago. u need 2 players over him. but if u waste 2 players on pirlo, u're suicidal.

yes, he doesn't defend well, he's not much of a runner, his timing for interceptions is pretty average. i also don't know how good a cook he is, and apparently he's completely ignorant on russian litterature. u know what all theese things have in common? they got nothing to do with his game :))
and i really wouldn't define marchisio and de rossi as workhorses. de rossi would be the main playmaker in almost every other national team on the planet. and marchisio is everything but a defensive midfielder. ;))

edit: besides he is not in his late 30s. he's 35 (which means he's in his mid-30s)... and before calling that old, bear in mind that i'm just 1 year younger than him and that i'm very sensitive about about my "youngness" :P
 
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andy18cruz

Sth, sth ... dark side
29 September 2013
Portugal
SL Benfica
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

My mini rant wasn't direct to you. I forget to mention. Sorry :) Just yesterday every sports media was praising him so much, that was sicking me so much. He’s an old man but he does not have cramps like the young English players. Well that's because they run like hell on that "inferno" and he did not.

But still I don't agree with you on the two man marking thing. One is enough. But you need to compromise your offensive game, since you have to ask your CF, SS or OMF to do the dirty work that normally they don't want to do. Which will have an impact on the energy level of your offense. If you put pressure on him, you probably won’t gain many balls, or intercept much passes, but you will prevent him to going forward with the ball or to make those magnificent long balls. Still remember a few years back, when United play Milan, when Rooney was constantly biting the Pirlo's ankles, and he was not effective at all.

Workhorse was in a sense that they sacrifice for the team, running miles, assuming every single aerial battle, constantly having to compensate Pirlo's absence, etc. De Rossi is one of my favourite midfielder. Is versatility is second to none. His presence on the midfield. Still remember that initial he play more of an attacking role at Roma, then came Aquilani and he became more of a CMF (His natural position), and then he became more of a defensive midfielder (and also can play as a sweeper). He reminds me of Roy Keene. Not because the playing style, but for the immense presence in both offence and defence, whenever the team need it them the most.
 

Gekko64

League 2
2 May 2006
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

while I agree with andy that Xavi in his prime was superior, I have to say it seems like Pirlo has aged better. or maybe it's just that playing in front of the defense his lack of athleticism is less apparent? he said something like that when asked about why he left milan, that allegri wanted to play him higher up the pitch and he knew that would not allow him to keep playing as long as he hoped to.
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

My mini rant wasn't direct to you. I forget to mention. Sorry :)

your wasn't a rant at all. just conversation. no need to apologise buddy :))
but this is getting way off topic guys, so i suggest to move the pirlo talking to the italy thread.
 

YoungGun_UK

20 TIMES!
12 July 2007
UK
Manchester United
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

I think United showed in 2010 that you can stop him with the right player, we used Park who just was on his case and that pretty muh shut him down.

England don't really possess that player though.
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

i know i'm gonna sound pedantic here, but actually, the examples u guys provided perfectly prove my point.
it wasn't just park who shut pirlo down in 2010 (there was park on man marking, plus flecther, who was on zone coverage and doubled the marking on pirlo every time andrea had the ball).
and the same goes for the benfica-juve game this spring. pirlo had always 2 players on him (perez, who was on man marking, plus amorim, who was on zone coverage).
of course i'm not saying it's scientifically impossible to handle pirlo with just 1 player; even world class players have their bad days, but they don't occurr that often. especially with pirlo, who's probably the most consistant midfielder of this entire generation.

anyway (and that's me trying to steer the conversation back to england) it was simply impossible for u to put someone on man marking on pirlo yesterday, because u only had 2 proper central midfielders (henderson and gerrard). u can afford to waste a midfielder on man marking duties when u got 3 central midfielders, but certainly not with 2.
besides (and that's probably the most important point) italy had 3 playmakers on the pitch yesterday (pirlo, verratti and de rossi), which is why i said that man marking pirlo would have been suicidal.

i really don't think hodgson did any mistakes yesterday. he chose a bold gameplan and stuck to it. the players executed it (magnificently), and it almost worked (because u had several chances to tie the game and a 2-2 end result wouldn't have been a robbery at all). :))
 
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beachryan

Golden Boot Winner
4 July 2003
Bermuda
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

Agree, both teams played to their 'potential' in many ways, but Italy's bar is higher than England's. No shame in that, this England team is extremely young and unproven, they'll learn.
 

Milanista

Mangiamoli!
Staff
19 December 2002
London & Milan
AC Milan
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

Agree, both teams played to their 'potential' in many ways, but Italy's bar is higher than England's. No shame in that, this England team is extremely young and unproven, they'll learn.

The only way they'll learn and become a better team is if Hodgson stays and keeps the same core of players. After all, Italy's team is also very young. England's average age is 26 and Italy's is 27, yet we play like a team that's played together for years.
 

Godotelli

Stroking Silva's Hair
27 July 2012
Manchester
Manchester City
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

:DOH: oh boy...
forget the "the rest of their team aren't that good" bit, do u really believe all u need to stop pirlo is to man mark him? with only one man? and HENDERSON?!? :LOL:
de rossi couldn't single-handedly mark pirlo out of the game, nevermind henderson, poor fella.
the whole point of being an "all time great", as u call em, is that it's kinda difficult to stop them. if all u needed to handle pirlo was 1 player set on man marking, then he wouldn't be much of a threat, wouldn't he? ;))
i've been watching this man playing football since he was a kid in brescia, and i can tell u the only way to contain him (mind u, i didn't say stop him, just contain him) is to put 2 players on him (one on man marking, the other on coverage)... 2 players entirely devoted to follow pirlo for the entire game....
but of course, if u waste 2 players on "pirlo-control" duties against italy, then marchisio, de rossi and candreva are going to tear u a new one. :P

I remember Park doing a pretty good job on Pirlo a few years back. You don't have to be an all time great to stop an all time great.
We've all seen lesser players largely put a stop to better players over the years. No reason why Henderson couldn't have nullified much of Pirlo's impact last night.

It really annoys me when managers don't make games a 10v10 affair when one of the opposition players is clearly the standout player on the pitch, esp. when that player is the heartbeat of the opposition team. Scholes was the Pirlo of the PL and it used to infuriate me seeing him in acres of space completely dictating the entire game.
 
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andy18cruz

Sth, sth ... dark side
29 September 2013
Portugal
SL Benfica
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

I think England's problem regarding Pirlo was that they made the game plan/line-up thinking on themselves, rather than the opposition. Henderson has the stamina and discipline to mark Pirlo, but has the only CMF in the pitch (Gerrard as this point is more like a DMF) he had a lot more responsibilities, given that Italy was playing with 5 midfielders (None of them a winger, btw). Think if Hodgson would've played with Barkley on the start Italy would've control the game so much. But then again every pundit in England would criticize the manager for playing too defensively.

Given the climacteric conditions, I think they should've played more conservatively. In the first half they made a real impact, but in the end they lack some steam. England only controlled the tempo, when Italy let them. Which in part was because the lack of a midfield presence. But they played well, everything considered.
 

lo zio

International
24 October 2005
Palermo
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

i'm really sorry u guys couldn't make it tonight. you played great against italy, but your defense really got u down tonight (makes me feel silly for complaining about paletta). :(

let's hope italy can beat both costarica and uruguay and u can trash costarica in your 3rd match.
i'd love italy and england to make it both to the next round.
 

beachryan

Golden Boot Winner
4 July 2003
Bermuda
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

Good defending from Jagielka. Nice assist from Gerrard.

I anticipate this being Rooney's fault, somehow.

To be fair, 3 of the 4 goals England conceded came from pretty basic mistakes from two defenders that aren't quite at the very top level. Say what you want about the horrible human being that Terry is - Suarez and Balotelli don't score those goals if he's in there instead of Jagielka. Mid-tier player, England should expect better.
 

LFC Albania

Banned
13 October 2012
Kosova
Albania NT
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

wow it was only 1st goal for Rooney in World Cup tournaments , he played in 3 of them, I really though he had scored before this, this is very poor , and I remember how they were talking about him as being best player in WC 2006 few years before it and it took him 3 tournaments to even score a goal :LOL:
 

matherto

20 times 20 times Man United
13 October 2004
St. Helens, Merseyside.
Manchester United
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

Gerrard would've been shot for those two performances and the mistakes he made tonight if he wasn't Stevie Me.

Imagine if Cleverley had done that?
 

YoungGun_UK

20 TIMES!
12 July 2007
UK
Manchester United
Re: England Thread - Youth it is!

was calling him to be taken off at HT for Wilshere, insane how little we used of him.

England :ROLL:
 

LFC Albania

Banned
13 October 2012
Kosova
Albania NT
Re: England Thread - Gerrard to Suarez! Rooney's fault.

i knew it was coming :LOL:

they better start collecting money , everyone pay £100 so when they collect up to £40 milion just give to Liverpool and ask Liverpool to sell him so Liverpool can start talking to Barca or Real and sell Suarez there :D
 

Re-arranged

Hashish?
3 August 2004
Newcastle United FC
Re: England Thread - Gerrard to Suarez! Rooney's fault.

they better start collecting money , everyone pay £100 so when they collect up to £40 milion just give to Liverpool and ask Liverpool to sell him so Liverpool can start talking to Barca or Real and sell Suarez there :D

I think they won't be able to find 400'000 idiots to finance this idea.
 

Dazzlà

UTG!!
20 November 2007
Bristol Rovers
Re: England Thread - Rooney's fault.

how we get beat by a route 1 smack it up the pitch shit, again..
gerrard should of had his fucking eyes open, that is some basic shit, keep your eye on the ball when going for header ffs.. defenders probably could of helped with better communication and that, also i don't think we should of selected the exact same team that played vs italy, some the players looked knackered already..

LFC Albania said:
England fans demand Liverpool star Luis Suarez is deported after World Cup goals :LMAO: Just can't get enough
http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/20/engla...ez-is-deported-after-world-cup-goals-4769319/

forget that, can we deport rooney back to ireland or some shit, he scored a tap-in and people act like he a massive fucking hero and best player in the world, :ZZZ:
 
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