eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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After watching the first full video of E3 stream, I can't watch anymore of the other videos for more more than 2 minutes. The game looks the same and plays the same.
Yes, it's slower and have new camera angle. But both of this can be done via patch on PES2019, including the new LS close control dribbling.

If PES2020 feels and looks the same as PES2019, It's fine with me as long as they fix the main issues(switching, clippings, fouls, scripting/stat boosts/momentum, ignoring inputs at times, stupid and repeatetive AI's, stats/individuality, shot variety, unrealistic/accurate pingpong passes, manual control issues, etc).

Dribbling on Pes19 is fine with me even though I'm not good at it. Maybe I can get good at it but I'm more into nice team plays.
On Pvp, I hate defending when big teams vs big teams. The offensive team is just too fast at certain times.
On 3 star teams(or lower) vs 3 star teams(or lower) , it's fine with me as "containing" and good positioning is very effective, and there's more margin for errors in defending.

And with these E3 videos, they just repeat what they say.
They say they are listening to fans but I'm really not sure since they didn't address what they've done or will do to fix the issues I posted above.
They can add new features and stuff but unless they fix the real issues, this game will not move forward.
 
Elanimator said:
After watching the first full video of E3 stream, I can't watch anymore of the other videos for more more than 2 minutes. The game looks the same and plays the same.
Yes, it's slower and have new camera angle. But both of this can be done via patch on PES2019, including the new LS close control dribbling.

If PES2020 feels and looks the same as PES2019, It's fine with me as long as they fix the main issues(switching, clippings, fouls, scripting/stat boosts/momentum, ignoring inputs at times, stupid and repeatetive AI's, stats/individuality, shot variety, unrealistic/accurate pingpong passes, manual control issues, etc).

Dribbling on Pes19 is fine with me even though I'm not good at it. Maybe I can get good at it but I'm more into nice team plays.
On Pvp, I hate defending when big teams vs big teams. The offensive team is just too fast at certain times.
On 3 star teams(or lower) vs 3 star teams(or lower) , it's fine with me as "containing" and good positioning is very effective, and there's more margin for errors in defending.

And with these E3 videos, they just repeat what they say.
They say they are listening to fans but I'm really not sure since they didn't address what they've done or will do to fix the issues I posted above.
They can add new features and stuff but unless they fix the real issues, this game will not move forward.
Click to expand...

It feels the same visualy, but you have to dive in the details. There are a lot of subtle changes.
Look at the 7:55:


How the ball goes to free space, how players fight for it. A lot less glue there.

The move when Dembele is front of the box, hiding the ball, Kociently charges with his shoulder, then, Dembele tryes to protect, but the ball remains free in his back, and he reacts quickly to take it, is just amazing.
 
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OBH said:
I've been quietly optimistic, however, this clip does show one thing I'm sad to see hasn't been improved:

4:05 - a pass is misplaced, however, by luck it heads directly towards another one his players. Unfortunately, the AI has no understanding of this, and makes no effort to collect the ball that's right next to his feet.
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ThomasGOAL said:
Thank you janguy, I don't like what I see at the 4:08, the cursor still have a problem...
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Yup, I noticed that too. Frustrating to see.

amartingil said:
How the ball goes to free space, how players fight for it. A lot less glue there.
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I didn't feel like that was especially new; I see that happen in 2019 a fair bit.

Still, I'm hopeful because I'm spotting good new things as well.
 
amartingil said:
It feels the same visualy, but you have to dive in the details. There are a lot of subtle changes.
Look at the 7:55:


How the ball goes to free space, how players fight for it. A lot less glue there.

The move when Dembele is front of the box, hiding the ball, Kociently charges with his shoulder, then, Dembele tryes to protect, but the ball remains free in his back, and he reacts quickly to take it, is just amazing.
Click to expand...

Emroth said:
@Elanimator you are not wrong. If the issues that we have with 19 are still in 20 - all efforts are pointless.
Nonetheless, I also have to agree with @amartingil in what he said..
Look at this clip - I think this is brilliant:
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Both of this footage are great. I agree that there are some brilliant moments, I just really hope they don't forget to fix the other issues that is stopping this game from being a great again.
 
This one one thing PES can do that fifa rarely has been able to. Make all elite players work in the way they work in real life. A better example than Messi is a maestro that plays deeper. Think iniesta. Iniesta is an elite player in PES, where he has never been usable in fifa. Each player brings what they bring to the table irl, to pes. Whereas fifa I can only recall two cards that really felt like their real life counterparts in recent fifa
This is one thing i noticed watching some efootball pes 2020 vids
 
janguv said:
Yup, I noticed that too. Frustrating to see.


I didn't feel like that was especially new; I see that happen in 2019 a fair bit.

Still, I'm hopeful because I'm spotting good new things as well.
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Some Twitter users and Youtuber's are talking as if things like longshots and errors by the Ai are a new feature in PES2020 but these things happen in PES2019.
 
Elanimator said:
After watching the first full video of E3 stream, I can't watch anymore of the other videos for more more than 2 minutes. The game looks the same and plays the same.
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Honestly, I just do not understand how anyone can say 'it plays the same' without actually having played the thing!

Of course, you can spot visual clues to help you make an educated guess. Think it looks the same? No problem. Want to say that you've spotted some familiar issues? Or haven't seen any new skills? Or that the goalies jump miles during penalties? That's cool. Can't argue with any of those, you're absolutely right.

But no one can claim to know how the damn thing plays until they've actually played it.
 
Emroth said:
@Elanimator you are not wrong. If the issues that we have with 19 are still in 20 - all efforts are pointless.
Nonetheless, I also have to agree with @amartingil in what he said..
Look at this clip - I think this is brilliant:
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Yes. There's an aerial collision between Batistuta and a defender which is very nice too (don't remember which video).
 
Lobbedball said:
This one one thing PES can do that fifa rarely has been able to. Make all elite players work in the way they work in real life. A better example than Messi is a maestro that plays deeper. Think iniesta. Iniesta is an elite player in PES, where he has never been usable in fifa. Each player brings what they bring to the table irl, to pes. Whereas fifa I can only recall two cards that really felt like their real life counterparts in recent fifa
This is one thing i noticed watching some efootball pes 2020 vids
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Could not be further from the truth sorry to say. In FIFA you get so many players standing out. The ID is much stronger than pass-pass-move that PES seems to hold. Messi should be taking on players countless of times in PES 20, but it's very rare he even tries. Same with Ronaldinho.

I played a match in FIFA against Real Betis and every time Joaquin had the ball, he was taking on my left back, trying to cut inside. It was gorgeous.

I really do hate to say it, but PES identity used to be only based on stats mattering, but now it's a foggy mess with player styles and positions holding those gameplay mechanics. I hope, desperately, that the "Inspire" (?) feature firms up those type of things like Player ID. However, and this has been very typical of PES since 16, is they have a tendency to overcomplicate things. They build the rollercoaster for the ride before even plotting land first. It's clear in those PES 20 videos again it's back to the attack/defence stuck in two minds again, and one can only hope when we play it, it will be different.

As always, I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
Matt10 said:
I hope, desperately, that the "Inspire" (?) feature firms up those type of things like Player ID. However, and this has been very typical of PES since 16, is they have a tendency to overcomplicate things.
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This is my biggest worry with Inspire. At the very least, they need to set out and give us a hierarchy that explains which elements take precedence.

A guy has goal poacher but a high inspire dribbling stat, and I've put false nine on him. What happens? Will it be a mess? Will one thing work and other things not? And so on. It's already unclear and messy, taking into account attack/defence levels, player roles, player condition, player stats, team spirit (mode depending), player emotions, player position chosen, etc.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
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I really don't want to be the pessimistic guy every time, but even if Messi and Rakitic behave like they would this doesn't rule out that most of the other top players or even more skilled players won't behave realistically, does it?

I mean, Barcelona is their global partner, of course they are going to recreate Barca players as good as possible. Real question is: will C.Ronaldo play like C.Ronaldo in real life? And what about Mertens, Insigne, or any other top player in the world? Will we be able to tell someone is good at dribbling because he tries it many times compared to most common players?

Here we go again with the Ps2 Pes discussion: sorry to bring those games back into the discussion, but those games really showed that almost every team had the star player attempting dribbling or being more skilled with passing, because stats effectively reflected how the player behaved on the pitch.

There are some good examples in the CPU video against Pes Legends and the Batistuta goal, but that is far too little to consider the lack of individuality as a solved issue, despite what Adam says. It's a bit simplistic to answer the way Adam answered.
 
Well last year Barça and Liverpool were partners and their CPU controlled players were the same exact dull and generic mess as the others.

It's Konami, so I can hardly be negatively surprised anymore by something. But I find it easier to believe that they gave back relevance to traits for all the players.

Whatever stats finally works correctly or not tho it's a whole another matter.
 
OBH said:
Honestly, I just do not understand how anyone can say 'it plays the same' without actually having played the thing!

Of course, you can spot visual clues to help you make an educated guess. Think it looks the same? No problem. Want to say that you've spotted some familiar issues? Or haven't seen any new skills? Or that the goalies jump miles during penalties? That's cool. Can't argue with any of those, you're absolutely right.

But no one can claim to know how the damn thing plays until they've actually played it.
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I've might have used the wrong word, here's the correct one:
"The game looks and plays very similar" which has a very different meaning.

If you will still ask me (after the correction)why I think "the game plays very similar" when I haven't played it:
Pes2020 is still PES, of course it will play like PES.

Anyways, my main point is if Pes2020 is just PES2019 without added features(pitch gameplay-wise) but the issues I posted in my previous post are fixed, then It will be a really great game. Pes19 is good, I like it very much but it's not great.

Just imagine PES2019 without the bugs/issues I've mentioned.
Now imagine, PES2020 with all it's new features but still with these issues(switching, clippings, fouls, scripting/stat boosts/momentum, ignoring inputs at times, stupid and repeatetive AI's, no individuality, still very limited shot variety, unrealistic/accurate pingpong passes, manual control issues, etc).
 
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OBH said:
It can’t be that monotonous if you played it all day! :D

There are people here saying there’s delay when trying to dribble? - I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. I’m convinced people just want it to be easier.
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I played it all day because some of you were claiming that the dribbling was great in it, and some even gave out some tips so I decided to experiment. Unfortunately for me, my opinion remained the same even after all those matches.

Rodchenko said:
All this talk about dribbling, fair enough, I guess, but how often do you see someone pull a Marseille move in real football? And even Messi doesn't skin 5 defenders in every game. Sometimes (like in the away leg against Liverpool) he doesn't do jack shit at all, simply because he is human and has his ups and downs.

Personally, I'd rather have them focus on the more fundamental things like the passing of the AI, which is so painfully robotic and "perfect", we've pointed it out many times. Headers are another aspect I'd like them to fix. I can't remember when last I conceded an AI-goal from a header and for humans it has become so difficult and unrewarding I am not even trying anymore. On corners I've switched to short corner tactics because regular corners will be cleared anyway by whichever team you play against, even by one with midget CBs. Goalies: another thing. They are incompetent in many situations but in others, they pull ninja moves which feel impossible, both physically and contextually. On penalties they jump farther than the goal post, for crying out loud. Shots from outside the box: how many have you scored in hundreds of games? Stamina system, fouls, refs, proper advantage rule, Most of all: different playing styles per team based on context (Huddersfield will not play 4-3-3 when they are away at Etihad sitting on 18th)... these and more would be higher up on my fix list.
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What does the Marseille move has to do with dribbling?
I mean yeah it could be used to dribble one or two guys given a certain situation but you're derrailing from my point (which is what sparked up the whole Dribbling debate). I NEVER talked about those type of "fantastic" moves. I care about the dribbling system, you can check my previous posts from yesterday in which I described more than once what I meant by that specifically. Not really going to repeat it again as I don't want to bore you.

amartingil said:
The point is not making dribbling more easier, it's about doing defensive mechanics more difficult.
The window of oportunity to win the ball when you tackle is extremly huge.
It lets you defend running towards the attacker, making hard press easily.

I want to see the day when Messi faces you, you are afraid of him.

The balance has to be at some point that makes you have to contain rivals more than go to press them.

Look at the video, defenders try to slowdown his run, closing his spaces, helped by one or more teammates:
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Right!
I don't think anyone wants dribbling to be easier. I don't know where these guys got that idea from. Nor me or anyone said it should be easier.
It certainly wasn't easy in PES 2013 or FIFA 16. It was just GREAT. Natural, organic, and realistic.
You could really feel like the player who performed a good dribbling action felt like his real-life counterpart. Not just Messi.
I already showed videos yesterday. The SAME animations were used for all payers. Yet somehow, they felt like they were specific to some players because of the motion-capture. Messi and Hazard in real life don't really look alike when they dribble. Yet, in PES 2013, they felt realistically represented even when the animations used for them (and every other player) were the common to all.

Again, it's not about EASY or HARD, it's about the mechanics. How it's designed from the get-go.
The chain of moves and how the next move is linked with the previous one. How players keep the ball close to their feet when necessary, or tap the ball forward when necessary, how they lean to one of their sides or not, etc, etc, etc. I really don't know how to explain it any better. Just watch the videos I posted yesterday closely and compare.

Lobbedball said:
This one one thing PES can do that fifa rarely has been able to. Make all elite players work in the way they work in real life. A better example than Messi is a maestro that plays deeper. Think iniesta. Iniesta is an elite player in PES, where he has never been usable in fifa. Each player brings what they bring to the table irl, to pes. Whereas fifa I can only recall two cards that really felt like their real life counterparts in recent fifa
This is one thing i noticed watching some efootball pes 2020 vids
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You really think that?.
I think players like Mbappe, Sterling, Kevin De Bruyne, Hazard, Messi, Robben, Ribery, Sane, Delle Ali, etc, etc, etc.... feel EXACTLY the same between each other in PES (other than their running animations), while they are worlds apart in FIFA and much much more realistically represented in every aspect.

PES used to have incredible PlayerID until 2014. From the PS1 games all the way up until PES 2013. They bossed that field.
But afterwards, they just didn't make any progress or maintained what they had done.
FIFA have been doing far more progress in that area since FIFA 13, reaching the peak in FIFA 16.
 
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@Chuny
See, this is why I love these chats and reading other peoples experiences, because my experience is the total opposite to almost every word you said :))

Take Dele Alli, for example - Alli in PES is a fantastic representation of what he’s like as a player in real life: His close dribbling (Messi style) really isn’t that good. In fact he’s actually quite slow at changing direction when he’s running with the ball at full speed. However, he does have a lot of fancy tricks in his locker, especially when he’s stood still and he tries to go past a defender. So if you want to get the best out of him, you HAVE to use the skill moves because, again, exactly as he plays in real life, he’s not technical enough, and not quick enough, to beat a defender with raw pace and dribbling ability alone.

On the opposite side to that, Messi, Robben, Hazard, Sterling etc can all fly past multiple opponents without ever needing to go anywhere near the right stick.

I’m definitely not saying you should like the dribbling in this game. Of course not mate, everyone has their own opinion :)) but if you think you can use Messi and Alli the same way to get the best out of them then you’re mad. Play two games on Superstar / Legend, and play each of them RW and see who you get the most success out of.

@Lobbedball
100% agree with you about Fifa.
PES has 363 players rated Silver or lower with 80+ passing. Fifa has 23. PES has 11 with 85+ passing. Fifa has 0.

PES actually understands that there are lower league players with some really, really good attributes. Fifa just thinks you’re either elite, or your shit.

This creates far more individuality between players.
 
I haven't seen the first match of this video yet. Its a Legends vs Legends:


Look at Becks fake shoot and how the defender reacts to it. Nice!
And there is a nice Park dribbling on the wing too.
 
OBH said:
PES actually understands that there are lower league players with some really, really good attributes. Fifa just thinks you’re either elite, or your shit.

This creates far more individuality between players.
Click to expand...

But the point is, that individuality doesn't reflect on the pitch in PES.
No matter how much they want to label the game "The Pitch Is Ours". All players feel the same.

Just try it yourself, please. Edit any team, set ALL players to the minimum (40), then edit another team and set all players' abilities to the maximum (99) and play two games against each other, one with each team. Then tell me if you really feel any differences besides placebo effect.
 
amartingil said:
I haven't seen the first match of this video yet. Its a Legends vs Legends:


Look at Becks fake shoot and how the defender reacts to it. Nice!
And there is a nice Park dribbling on the wing too.
Click to expand...


I'm having a hard time finding anything in any of the videos to get me excited. Besides the physical battles and the new camera and some new animations. It's more PES 2019 2.0 than ever before.

Sorry for the negativity guys. I know you don't want this.
 
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OBH said:
@Chuny
See, this is why I love these chats and reading other peoples experiences, because my experience is the total opposite to almost every word you said :))

Take Dele Alli, for example - Alli in PES is a fantastic representation of what he’s like as a player in real life: His close dribbling (Messi style) really isn’t that good. In fact he’s actually quite slow at changing direction when he’s running with the ball at full speed. However, he does have a lot of fancy tricks in his locker, especially when he’s stood still and he tries to go past a defender. So if you want to get the best out of him, you HAVE to use the skill moves because, again, exactly as he plays in real life, he’s not technical enough, and not quick enough, to beat a defender with raw pace and dribbling ability alone.

On the opposite side to that, Messi, Robben, Hazard, Sterling etc can all fly past multiple opponents without ever needing to go anywhere near the right stick.

I’m definitely not saying you should like the dribbling in this game. Of course not mate, everyone has their own opinion :)) but if you think you can use Messi and Alli the same way to get the best out of them then you’re mad. Play two games on Superstar / Legend, and play each of them RW and see who you get the most success out of.

@Lobbedball
100% agree with you about Fifa.
PES has 363 players rated Silver or lower with 80+ passing. Fifa has 23. PES has 11 with 85+ passing. Fifa has 0.

PES actually understands that there are lower league players with some really, really good attributes. Fifa just thinks you’re either elite, or your shit.

This creates far more individuality between players.
Click to expand...


Your enthusiasm feels real. I like it.

Hence, I need to ask - how do you get the best out of Kane. I see Kane as a superstar but whenever I play with Spurs he doesn't come across like this. I'd also expect him to score headers galore but I don't think I've ever done so.

I've put this down to my poor full manual skills. Apart from practice more/use assist/lower difficulty - Any tips you got?
 
AI needs to improve this year, It amazes me how they can release an AI that only shoots in the top corner and tries low crossed goals over and over again.

Also for such a beautiful looking game, We need better replay camera angles instead of the low and narrow one we got now, not good enough.
 
OBH said:
@Chuny
See, this is why I love these chats and reading other peoples experiences, because my experience is the total opposite to almost every word you said :))

Take Dele Alli, for example - Alli in PES is a fantastic representation of what he’s like as a player in real life: His close dribbling (Messi style) really isn’t that good. In fact he’s actually quite slow at changing direction when he’s running with the ball at full speed. However, he does have a lot of fancy tricks in his locker, especially when he’s stood still and he tries to go past a defender. So if you want to get the best out of him, you HAVE to use the skill moves because, again, exactly as he plays in real life, he’s not technical enough, and not quick enough, to beat a defender with raw pace and dribbling ability alone.

On the opposite side to that, Messi, Robben, Hazard, Sterling etc can all fly past multiple opponents without ever needing to go anywhere near the right stick.

I’m definitely not saying you should like the dribbling in this game. Of course not mate, everyone has their own opinion :)) but if you think you can use Messi and Alli the same way to get the best out of them then you’re mad. Play two games on Superstar / Legend, and play each of them RW and see who you get the most success out of.
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Don't forget his body feints. Messi has an extreme domain of his body, and he uses it instintively to fool defenders.

It's a biomechanic matter.
Players with long legs/short torso are better with tricks, stepovers, long runs...Robinho is 1,71 but with long legs.
Players with short legs/long torso are better controling his body, turning,dashing... Robben is 1.80 but with short legs.

[what a fuck did this guy his his career!!!]

If Messi did stepovers, He wouldn't be as good as he is on dribbling.
 
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janguv said:

Didn't see this posted yet. Bit of Arsenal footage, and France. Makes a change.
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Thanks for the post... looks very smooth at 60fps, first clip ive seen where its actually gameplay at 60fps.
On a big positive, im seeing big improvements in first touch animations, the variations, which not only make the game look more natural, but seems to slow things down a bit. Despite its flaws, i still think 19 was a good base, and if 20 builds on that (animations and ball physics have already shown a decent visual improvement) it should be good. Now i really hope the AI and player behavour makes similar improvments..

I have to say, im really excited about the news of this new camera angle actually being customisable... i know its been confirmed verbally, but i need to see it in action via a youtube clip, and the players actually tinkering it. The new angle, together with increased animations, does look amazing.
 
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...actually just saw the youtube clip where they clearly show and say that 'stadium' cam is fully (height angle and zoom) customisable, albeit it is greyed out in this demo version (but shows its current setting...i think 5 for zoom and height). Ill post link later. Seriously only camera we'll need considering its customisable.

edit: here it is: 5,5,6....
looking at this im sure ill go the 10 for angle, with quite a bit more zoom.. probably 8,8,10 etc.
 
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aussiepesfan said:
...actually just saw the youtube clip where they clearly show and say that 'stadium' cam is fully (height angle and zoom) customisable, albeit it is greyed out in this demo version (but shows its current setting...i think 5 for zoom and height). Ill post link later. Seriously only camera we'll need considering its customisable.
Click to expand...
It will be, yeah. They confirmed it few times.
 
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