eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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OBH said:
I’ve played hundreds of games of PES, and I’ve never once thought I’ve lost a game from scripting.

I don’t doubt there’s momentum changes, but this is whole “I conceded a 90th min header, it’s scripting, I was forced to lose” I think is utter rubbish. Until I see something truly ridiculous - my gk throws it into his own net, a 90th min 30 yard header, or I suddenly lose complete control of a player and he kicks the ball into my own goal, I just don’t believe it exists to the degree people say it does.

Those games where you have 15 shots and don’t score, but the AI has one shot and one goal, do people really believe it’s ‘scripted’? That they were destined to lose? What if I’d help the ball in the corner flag for 90mins? Would have flushed that ‘script’ right down to the toilet wouldn’t it.
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Yes, many times, you can do something about it.
Some late goals happens a lot when you don't sub those tired players.
Some late goals happens when you made a mistake and the other team counters.
Some late goals happen when you didn't concentrate on defending properly and just pressed carelessly.
How many times we say to ourselves, "Damn, if I didn't do or do that, or if I'm only a bit more careful, he should have not scored"
These types of goals aren't guaranteed but sometimes it favors the other teams so much that he doesn't need to do much to score.


-------------
LATE GAME SCENARIO:
I'm playing against my cousin the other day. We always play race-to-4 wins.
A scoreless draw means nothing. If it's a draw with scores then we both get a win.

He's leading 3-1 in the series and winning 1-0 in the game.
It's already 88th minute. A late minute goal are too common in this game but I need to score 2 goals to extend the series so I'm already accepting that I'll lose...but then miracle(with some scripting) happened and I scored 2 late goals to win the match. Then win the next 2 matches to win the series 4-3.
Here's the play-by-play:
MISTAKE: After my first goal, he made a costly mistake. Instead of passing the ball to the defenders after kick-off he decided to pass forward.
HIS MISTAKE/or CAN BE SCRIPTED: I'm not sure if his first pass forward is just in-accurate or one of those bad pass scripting happened. Since this is on manual, let's just say it's a mistake.
CAN BE SCRIPTED: After I intercepted the pass, I made a bad pass that goes straight to his player's foot that somehow still managed to get into my intended pass receiver.
MISTAKE: He carelessly pressed instead of maintaining his defense formation.
CAN BE SCRIPTED: My player made a decisive run(but this just might be a result of CB getting out of his position). His LB not anticipating the run.

CONCLUSION:
It's a combination of his mistakes, some scripting(not sure) that favored me and also my input that resulted in a late goal.
I still need to make those last 2 important passes and shot but along the way, there's some favorable scripting that put me in a great position to score.
If he didn't make those mistakes, I don't think I'll be able to score.
If my bad pass didn't manage to still go to my intended receiver, I don't think I'll be able to score.
And if I wasn't able to make those last 2 passes and shot, I won't be able to score.
If these 3 things didn't happen, I'm still :CRY: today for losing 3 race-to-4wins series in a row.:D

My first goal is very common in this game as well, defenders able to intercept the ball but because of the momentum of the attacking player, he's able to get the ball back for an easy 1 on 1 with the GK. This can be prevented by passing/clearing the ball immediately instead of controlling the ball. Sometimes, it's just difficult to do but most of the time, it's the player's fault.

OBH said:
@Flipper the Priest
“Of course it does, it’s a video game”
I don’t know what that even means?
Not all games are ‘scripted’ in the fictional-story sense. A racing game isn’t a ‘scripted’ event. The idea PES is as scripted as ‘The Last of Us’ just because it’s a video game is laughable.
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I don't think he meant it as the overall outcome almost guaranteed or something like that.
Not only it's a video game, but it's "team sports" video game where you depend on AI teammates to make these crucial runs(and a lot of other things too). Of course, there's a button to make these teammates run, but how many times they don't, when you needed them to.
Unlike racing, football games has a lot room for scripting.
Runs, defending, dribbling, saves, passes and shots. Almost every aspect is or can be scripted.

I guess, some people just have different definition of "scripting".
For some, it means occurrences in the game that results in outcome that is almost guaranteed to score, favoring one team in a particular situation.
For some, it just means those little scripting/percentage/probabilities in certain aspects of the game.
There are lots of other definitions too, I'm sure.
 
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Some scipted freekicks.
For some reason, the player on the ball path didn't jump. I might have pressed the "triangle" late on the first one but still, the player in the ball path didn't jump. Hope they fix this on pes2020.
 
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OBH said:
I don’t doubt there’s momentum changes
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That to me is scripting. This doesn't necessarily mean you'll lose but you can certainly feel yourself battling against it. I'm speaking solely bases on FIFA, as I haven't played online PES for a long time. You can normally tell after 10 minutes of the game.

You can still win because the opposition may not take advantage of it but 9 times out of 10 they do. Your players feel sluggish, there's lag on button input, their goalkeeper saves everything, they can score almost every shot they have, almost every tackle bounces back to their player etc etc.

It's not scripting you to lose but it's certainly doing its best to make it happen. You can still win but you're doing it in spite of the game's attempts.
 
OBH said:
I’ve played hundreds of games of PES, and I’ve never once thought I’ve lost a game from scripting.

I don’t doubt there’s momentum changes, but this is whole “I conceded a 90th min header, it’s scripting, I was forced to lose” I think is utter rubbish. Until I see something truly ridiculous - my gk throws it into his own net, a 90th min 30 yard header, or I suddenly lose complete control of a player and he kicks the ball into my own goal, I just don’t believe it exists to the degree people say it does.

Those games where you have 15 shots and don’t score, but the AI has one shot and one goal, do people really believe it’s ‘scripted’? That they were destined to lose? What if I’d help the ball in the corner flag for 90mins? Would have flushed that ‘script’ right down to the toilet wouldn’t it.

@Flipper the Priest
“Of course it does, it’s a video game”
I don’t know what that even means?
Not all games are ‘scripted’ in the fictional-story sense. A racing game isn’t a ‘scripted’ event. The idea PES is as scripted as ‘The Last of Us’ just because it’s a video game is laughable.
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I would had relied you by examples, but it would be a huge-long post. Others have replied on this too, so. When most of people here say "SCRIPTING" they don't mean it with its literally meaning. They mostly mean that the stats are constantly manipulated one-sided, handicapping you and boosting the CPU or the opponent. Also some automatized actions like marking with :x: become more effective for the one who has the momentum. The problem with the CPU momentum is that it rarely shifts to the Human player and when it does, it is like the game allows you to win. Furthermore as million time said here it makes the Huddersfields of the game play like Barcelona. If the hundreds games you played, were over TopPlayer difficulty and without a dt18 modded, you must have noticed it by yourself.

@Elanimator was spot on 1000% on his explanation. He covered me completely.
 
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Elanimator said:
Those input lags or ignored inputs that happens in very critical time are the worst.
Of course, if it didn't cost you to concede a goal, you'll easily forget it but if it changed the outcome of the match, it' very annoying.
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And it was blatant and in your face in pes19 more than in any other game in the whole series.
There was more than enough examples in pes19 thread so no point going through all again. But from the pure "football joy" it was, by far, most frustrating and lazy programming ever, where challenge was based mainly on AI momentum, surgical precision and our defenders always being two steps behind AI attackers.
I had matches on 17, where COM ripped me a new asshole, but I never wanted to eat the fucking controller at the end..
 
It's those moments where your defender runs the wrong direction for 2 steps for no reason despite originally running in the correct direction. Or watching your 6 foot plus defender ignore your button input so the ball goes an inch over his head to their 5'2" winger to head home. Or maybe you go knock a through ball down the line, tap triangle and for some reason the player blasts it like you held down full power. Or my favourite. Going to pass down the line, clearly holding the correct direction but the game decides the pass should be go infield directly where their covering midfielder is. That's the scripting. It's not necessarily causing you to lose but it is gifting the opposition back the ball in situations it shouldn't or giving them wide open chances by making your defenders do idiotic things.
 
Whether you called it scripting\momentum or something else, i think it needs to be in there in some way. If it was not there it would get boriung to quickly. I need to feel pressured and i need to feel that i am fighting for my life in the last 10 minutes to hang on to a narrow lead. I love that feeling. Of course it suck when i do not manage to hang on. But stuff like that happens all the time in football. Some days you have a good day and some days you have a bad day on field. That is life.

I do agree though that some times the scripting\momentum in PES 19 is kicking in a bit too hard.
 
Elanimator said:
Yes, many times, you can do something about it.
Some late goals happens a lot when you don't sub those tired players.
Some late goals happens when you made a mistake and the other team counters.
Some late goals happen when you didn't concentrate on defending properly and just pressed carelessly.
How many times we say to ourselves, "Damn, if I didn't do or do that, or if I'm only a bit more careful, he should have not scored"
These types of goals aren't guaranteed but sometimes it favors the other teams so much that he doesn't need to do much to score.


-------------
LATE GAME SCENARIO:
I'm playing against my cousin the other day. We always play race-to-4 wins.
A scoreless draw means nothing. If it's a draw with scores then we both get a win.

He's leading 3-1 in the series and winning 1-0 in the game.
It's already 88th minute. A late minute goal are too common in this game but I need to score 2 goals to extend the series so I'm already accepting that I'll lose...but then miracle(with some scripting) happened and I scored 2 late goals to win the match. Then win the next 2 matches to win the series 4-3.
Here's the play-by-play:
MISTAKE: After my first goal, he made a costly mistake. Instead of passing the ball to the defenders after kick-off he decided to pass forward.
HIS MISTAKE/or CAN BE SCRIPTED: I'm not sure if his first pass forward is just in-accurate or one of those bad pass scripting happened. Since this is on manual, let's just say it's a mistake.
CAN BE SCRIPTED: After I intercepted the pass, I made a bad pass that goes straight to his player's foot that somehow still managed to get into my intended pass receiver.
MISTAKE: He carelessly pressed instead of maintaining his defense formation.
CAN BE SCRIPTED: My player made a decisive run(but this just might be a result of CB getting out of his position). His LB not anticipating the run.

CONCLUSION:
It's a combination of his mistakes, some scripting(not sure) that favored me and also my input that resulted in a late goal.
I still need to make those last 2 important passes and shot but along the way, there's some favorable scripting that put me in a great position to score.
If he didn't make those mistakes, I don't think I'll be able to score.
If my bad pass didn't manage to still go to my intended receiver, I don't think I'll be able to score.
And if I wasn't able to make those last 2 passes and shot, I won't be able to score.
If these 3 things didn't happen, I'm still :CRY: today for losing 3 race-to-4wins series in a row.:D

My first goal is very common in this game as well, defenders able to intercept the ball but because of the momentum of the attacking player, he's able to get the ball back for an easy 1 on 1 with the GK. This can be prevented by passing/clearing the ball immediately instead of controlling the ball. Sometimes, it's just difficult to do but most of the time, it's the player's fault.


I don't think he meant it as the overall outcome almost guaranteed or something like that.
Not only it's a video game, but it's "team sports" video game where you depend on AI teammates to make these crucial runs(and a lot of other things too). Of course, there's a button to make these teammates run, but how many times they don't, when you needed them to.
Unlike racing, football games has a lot room for scripting.
Runs, defending, dribbling, saves, passes and shots. Almost every aspect is or can be scripted.

I guess, some people just have different definition of "scripting".
For some, it means occurrences in the game that results in outcome that is almost guaranteed to score, favoring one team in a particular situation.
For some, it just means those little scripting/percentage/probabilities in certain aspects of the game.
There are lots of other definitions too, I'm sure.
Click to expand...

What he said.

It's not to say there's wholesale predetermination, but each action isn't in the lap of the gods and subject to chaos; the game will decide if that pass, shot, etc is successful based on your best efforts.

However, some of those tinfoil hat-wearers on Reddit would have you believe that it's all planned out from kick off. Like you, @OBH, I haven't noticed any scripting in that sense.
 
Poul Peter said:
I actually think 19 has been getting better with the latest DP's. Just played a game against Juve in my Italian league game. Juve were shooting from all over the place and Ronaldo was dribbling around the place.
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Flipper the Priest said:
I agree, in part. Feel it got worse in some ways but more variety in the AI attack was paramount and the DPs delivered that.
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Yeah, isn´t it?
We had it last year already and probably years before.

It´s like every PES is taking the same curve.
Demo plays fine, so is full release.
Then with the next patches it plays a bit worse and when the next release is announced and first news and videos come out, the current release seems to play better again :D .

Elanimator said:
-------------
LATE GAME SCENARIO:
I'm playing against my cousin the other day. We always play race-to-4 wins.
A scoreless draw means nothing. If it's a draw with scores then we both get a win.

He's leading 3-1 in the series and winning 1-0 in the game.
It's already 88th minute. A late minute goal are too common in this game but I need to score 2 goals to extend the series so I'm already accepting that I'll lose...but then miracle(with some scripting) happened and I scored 2 late goals to win the match. Then win the next 2 matches to win the series 4-3.
Here's the play-by-play:
MISTAKE: After my first goal, he made a costly mistake. Instead of passing the ball to the defenders after kick-off he decided to pass forward.
HIS MISTAKE/or CAN BE SCRIPTED: I'm not sure if his first pass forward is just in-accurate or one of those bad pass scripting happened. Since this is on manual, let's just say it's a mistake.
CAN BE SCRIPTED: After I intercepted the pass, I made a bad pass that goes straight to his player's foot that somehow still managed to get into my intended pass receiver.
MISTAKE: He carelessly pressed instead of maintaining his defense formation.
CAN BE SCRIPTED: My player made a decisive run(but this just might be a result of CB getting out of his position). His LB not anticipating the run.
Click to expand...

Gosh!
Poor guy must have smashed his controller into his TV...

Good play, though :)
 
ninety3twenty said:
Mate, Thank you so much for this comment.
I have spent the last three years buying Pro, selling it and then buying Fifa, Enjoying that for a month and then convincing myself it is my fault I am not enjoying it and tinkering with sliders for a month before selling that too.
"I'm too old, maybe I don't even like footy games anymore".
Rinse and repeat.
After reading your comment, I downloaded PES 5 and I can't believe how much fun it still is. It is just an enjoyable game of footy. Gonna download Patch for 2018 kits and players etc and I think that will be me for awhile.
Cheers!
What is Bizarre though, the new foul I saw them touting at E3 is just a natural part of Pes 5. Had the best 0 - 0 in years.
Click to expand...
Pretty solid game mate.
Love how fresh it feels
 
Or my favourite "scenario"
Me seeing an opening, I'll setup my striker with a through ball,using 5ish% on the pass meter but the ball goes 30 meters in front of him and over the line.
For absolutely no explainable reason.
 
rockstrongo said:
Or my favourite "scenario"
Me seeing an opening, I'll setup my striker with a through ball,using 5ish% on the pass meter but the ball goes 30 meters in front of him and over the line.
For absolutely no explainable reason.
Click to expand...

Yup that is a pet peeve of my own. Yes it happens in real life, but normally just slightly over hit, not blasted out of play by an absolute mile. Error is very important to the game but not when it is quite so blatantly there to screw you.
 
Gale Kast said:
Yup that is a pet peeve of my own. Yes it happens in real life, but normally just slightly over hit, not blasted out of play by an absolute mile. Error is very important to the game but not when it is quite so blatantly there to screw you.
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Fully agreeing there brother.
Funny thing is that I see it more often on REG/Prof than TP/SS
Probably just to dumb you down a bit when playing on lower difficulty,but happens on TP enough too
 
rockstrongo said:
Or my favourite "scenario"
Me seeing an opening, I'll setup my striker with a through ball,using 5ish% on the pass meter but the ball goes 30 meters in front of him and over the line.
For absolutely no explainable reason.
Click to expand...

Using manual passes (when set to manual, even through passes are manual) is the best you can do to counter the limiting and random automation by the assistence.

Assistence in Pes 2019 should be helping you, but actually it's quite limiting, and when you learn manual you know every mistake you make is because you pressed the wrong button, not because AI decided you had to make a mistake.

I feel like this year they made PA1 way too random just to say:"see, you can make wrong passes with assistance too!", while actually it's the AI randomly disregarding your input.

Anyway, in a couple of days we will know the demo date and details. Again, i really hope they don't take the same stupid decision to limit matches to 5 minutes to hide AI issues.

If they go with 5 minutes matches i will consider the demo useless.
 
Ameppe said:
Using manual passes (when set to manual, even through passes are manual) is the best you can do to counter the limiting and random automation by the assistence.

Assistence in Pes 2019 should be helping you, but actually it's quite limiting, and when you learn manual you know every mistake you make is because you pressed the wrong button, not because AI decided you had to make a mistake.

I feel like this year they made PA1 way too random just to say:"see, you can make wrong passes with assistance too!", while actually it's the AI randomly disregarding your input.

Anyway, in a couple of days we will know the demo date and details. Again, i really hope they don't take the same stupid decision to limit matches to 5 minutes to hide AI issues.

If they go with 5 minutes matches i will consider the demo useless.
Click to expand...
I feel that demos are pretty useless since it's
A 5-6 min
B exhibition.

I'm playing PA0 since PES 13,and difficulty handicapping you with very bad passes is deffo a thing,I see the meter I know I put up a very soft through ball (advanced) yet it rickets by with 10-20 meters.
Don't want to sound like an asshole,but that's all down to CPU having a "boost"

PA1 isn't anything I play,last time was Pes 15 (which was very good).
But I most surely see "boosts" from the CPU in my passing,especially on Reg/Profesional.
If you move up to TP /SS the AI doesn't need that,instead it's more "reaction and recovery/catch-up " unrealistically fast.
That's why I prefer (despite the passing )REG and Prof
 
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@scripting

of course its there and always has been, while re-visiting older pes titles and reading very old threads for the sake of it, its funny how people back then wrote the same stuff, we re talking about even pes 3 and 4 and that people were pissed about it, going back its really funny because the further you go back the less you notice it (its just better hidden), so in a way konami just increased it and got worse hiding it, thats all..

sometimes i get so infuriated with pes 6 for example, i dont mind the game does things to the com team, the issue is when it does things to my teams players when im not controlling them, one of the most classic examples is probably the "i have done nothing wrong stun animation with the arms and legs apart" when a pass is going near by that the com desperately needs that this one pass goes through, so instead of atleast just standing or running normally as the situation would suggest so that the chance is atleast there that the ball is somehow stuck in the legs no its most of the time the easy way going through the legs, it looks funny like "ok ill just let this ball pass"..

its a matter of seeing or not seing
 
Looks like Konami saw all this scripting discussion and release new MyClub challenge vs CPU, on legend difficulty. I beat legend difficulty on regular bases in ML mode all the time, but now here is almost 100% script in full power :D. First game vs Barca, first half was 5-0 and I quit in half time, the secound game was 3-1 first half but the match ended 5-1, 3th vs Pool 3-0 first half for CPU, 4th full match 1-0 for CPU. They wanna just show you, no matter how good players you have... its matter how the script will be switched on. It's amazing how they even do not hide it. Your players' shots, dribbling, speed, tackles, and passes are all over the place.
 
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PESBUL said:
Looks like Konami saw all this scripting discussion and release new MyClub challenge vs CPU, on legend difficulty. I beat legend difficulty on regular bases in ML mode all the time, but now here is almost 100% script in full power :D. First game vs Barca, first half was 5-0 and I quit in half time, the secound game was 3-1 first half but the match ended 5-1, 3th vs Pool 3-0 first half for CPU, 4th full match 1-0 for CPU. They wanna just show you, no matter how good players you have... its matter how the script will be switched on. It's amazing how they even do not hide it. Your players' shots, dribbling, speed, tackles, and passes are all over the place.
Click to expand...


2014 was the last PES where they actually improved the game as the year went on. Seems they made a plan to downgrade the game as the year went on to push sales.

On a fully patched PES 2019 PC game, I've just seen Dembele ignore a ball right in front of him to make the tackle only to let the cross come in and for Ajax to score. They've had one year to receive feedback and do something about problems like this yet the problem is there and they sweep it under the carpet with player faces and guff about the next PES.

PES is untrustworthy. I should not be moaning for 3-4 solid years about a game but here I am.
 
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When the Pes 2020 demo arrives I really hope the Ai shows significant signs of improvement regarding player id. In PES2019 it is frustrating to see superstar players like Messi play so generically when controlled by the Ai. I can't possibly support companies like Konami or EA if they can't even bother to fix fundamentals that appear to be purposely ignored or removed year after year.
 
since when is the cam going close up when a player is at the near sideline? thought that only happend when playing at the far away sideline. hm...

DEMO date tmw then!! cant wait!!
 
Part of it should be removed, but not all of it. Then it will just get too boring. There needs to be somekind of momentum in there.
 
When PES 3 was out, Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2 was out.. Both fantastic Konami sports games. The story goes, one keep it's core the other didn't. You'd think Konami would see it.
 
Pes 2020 (can't call it efootball) won Game Critics Awards at E3, the official E3 awards for the first time ever.

http://www.gamecriticsawards.com/winners.html

Fifa 20 was ineligible for the award because it was not playable at E3.

These were the nominees

BEST SPORTS GAME
EFootball Pro Evolution Soccer 2020 (Konami for PS4, Xbox)
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020 (Sega for Switch)
Madden NFL 20 (EA Tiburon/EA for PC, PS4, Xbox)
Roller Champions (Ubisoft Montreal/Ubisoft for PC)
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Not great competition to be honest.
 
So.. .tomorow demo announce! I bet that demo will release 10 days before the full game (01.09.2019) or last week of August.
 
Well..i guess they just said that it would be during the World Finals. So it could be today...but could also be tomorrow.
 
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