eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[DigitalByDesign]

One example doesn't prove they are wrong lol

Nope..but I can give examples of him being out muscled and him outmuscling.All about context.

Not a defensive response.Just a example of demo that is more optimised imo..This is reflected in AI,response,physics and every other facet of the demo.The demo on Xbox one x is technically superior and more polished imo.

Same with night games and games in rougher conditions ie snow,rain..There’s more inconsistencies in the physics,collisions and the game suffers slightly with response..These issues just aren’t there on the X with its greater gpu overhead..The PS4 standard and pro does struggle when cpu and gpu demands are at there highest.

 

[fernadez]

Nope..but I can give examples of him being out muscled and him outmuscling.All about context.

Not a defensive response.Just a example of demo that is more optimised imo..This is reflected in AI,response,physics and every other facet of the demo.

Do you play against the computer mate?

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

Messi to easily out muscled?..superstar..

Xbox one x..Far more indicative of the final product imo ..Less acceleration in the ball while passing,the refs are more balanced and overall the game feels tighter and more responsive,especially the cursor..The PS4 demo also is a lot faster imo.And there’s much more zip and aceleration in the ball while passing,especially on the deck.

There’s also a lot more inconsistencies in the PS4 demo..Bugs,glitches.

I’m going with the Xbox one x version..Option file aside,technically its superior..The elite controller also gives the game a level of response and feel,I just don’t get from the DualShock or standard Xbox controller.

Chances are while the X version might play better i'd put money on the PS/Pro version being more advanced in dev time.

 

[DigitalByDesign]

Do you play against the computer mate?

Computer and friends mainly..I’m not adverse to online play and can hold my own even against the assisted crowd..

I’m only really interested in a deeper offline game..They can dilute and script online as much as they want..Just leave the offline component how it is.

 

[DigitalByDesign]

Chances are while the X version might play better i'd put money on the PS/Pro version being more advanced in dev time.

Not a console war bro(I love my pro and all those exclusives)..Pes is developed on pcs and scaled down for the consoles..

I don’t think it’s any surprise the X is outperforming the PS4 demo..Basic maths and numbers..It also looks a lot better..As I’m sure it does if you have a ubber pc and can increase the frame rate.

The reality the PS4 pro sounds like it’s taking off while playing Pes2020 demonstrates the cpu and gpu is being pushed to the max,especially trying to maintain 60 FPS and resolutions above 1080p.

 

[fernadez]

Computer and friends mainly..I’m not adverse to online play and can hold my own even against the assisted crowd..

I’m only really interested in a deeper offline game..They can dilute and script online as much as they want..Just leave the offline component how it is.

What do you think about the points I raised, the defensive line retreating to quickly and that the CPU doesn't utilise the creative attacking players to their full ability. I find them to be a bit passive when it comes to individual players attacking me.

 

[NathW90]

Has anyone else noticed that the GK throwing animations are completely broken?

They were perfect in 2019, they always picked correctly whether the throw it over arm or under arm depending on how far away the player is, but now they throw it over arm to a player 2 feet away from them.

Ive also noticed (only against arsenal but I’m sure it works against other teams) If the CPU gk takes a short goal kick even once, he’ll from then on take a short gk to the same player EVERY SINGLE TIME. So you can just repeatedly intercept it. Beat them 6-1 by exploiting this. If you change formation though you encourage him to kick it elsewhere.


This makes me laugh.
I spent 6 years watching Mousa Dembele build his entire game around this at Spurs. How is good shielding mechanics anything but a good thing?

Granted maybe Dybala shouldn’t be able to hold off Pique like he’s nothing, but they’ve nailed an aspect of football which is notoriously rubbish in football games.

That's Demebele, a big, physically strong player. In this game you can be 5'6 and still comfortably shield from a 6'3 defender every single time. It's hugely overpowered regardless of the stature or stats of the player shielding the ball.

 

[fernadez]

That's Demebele, a big, physically strong player. In this game you can be 5'6 and still comfortably shield from a 6'3 defender every single time. It's hugely overpowered regardless of the stature or stats of the player shielding the ball.

If you get your body in front, there's only two possible outcomes really, either you get fouled or you shrug off the player. I'm not sure how else that scenario can play out?

Whether players get there body in front to often/easily is a different issue I think to the actually outcome of shielding. I'm not seeing it happen overly to have an issue with it myself, also I think to have effective midfielders and to be able to hold the ball upfront with your back to goal it's a system that football games desperately needed, so i'll take too much instead of too little. In both games (though I've played FIFA much more in recent years) having a slow but skillful midfielder was pointless cause they couldn't create time and space in which to play in.

 

[DigitalByDesign]

What do you think about the points I raised, the defensive line retreating to quickly and that the CPU doesn't utilise the creative attacking players to their full ability. I find them to be a bit passive when it comes to individual players attacking me.

Depends on the team and how the end user plays(turn on the footie and so will the cpu)..I’ve seen some great football and flare from the cpu when it’s attack and defensive levels are not set to low..If your 2-0 up watch how direct and how creative the cpu can be.

I think a lot of your concerns are related to how the demo is intentionally set up.

I retreat with my back line and keep my shape.You can press with one player at the wrong time in your own third and your house of cards can collapse.While other defensive players fill gaps and leave spaces for forwards.Shape is everything in this game especially at the back.

I must do a video of how easy it is to allow your FB to be sucked to the ball(which most people do),rather then being in that position where your covering the space behind him and the ball carrier and how positional awareness effects the position of the next defender.

It’s all cause and effect..How one decision effects the next 1 or 2 phases of play..Reading danger against reacting...Because I’m not having situations where my players are out of position and unable to react quickly enough to a dangerous situation...Risk against rewards.

It’s a smart football minded game...For those that can see danger and opportunity 3 or 4 phases ahead..

 

[fernadez]

Depends on the team and how the end user plays(turn on the footie and so will the cpu)..I’ve seen some great football and flare from the cpu when it’s attack and defensive levels are not set to low..If your 2-0 up watch how direct and how creative the cpu can be.

I think a lot of your concerns are related to how the demo is intentionally set up.

I retreat with my back line and keep my shape.You can press with one player at the wrong time in your own third and your house of cards can collapse.While other defensive players fill gaps and leave spaces for forwards.Shape is everything in this game especially at the back.

I must do a video of how easy it is to allow your FB to be sucked to the ball(which most people do),rather then being in that position where your covering the space behind him and the ball carrier and how positional awareness effects the position of the next defender.

It’s all cause and effect..How one decision effects the next 1 or 2 phases of play..Reading danger against reacting...Because I’m not having situations where my players are out of position and unable to react quickly enough to a dangerous situation...Risk against rewards.

It’s a smart football minded game...

That's not my issue, I'm talking about when a pass gets played from midfield into the front line. The defense will automatically start retreating to allow the attacker to receive the ball in a couple yards of space. It's not that I concede from this happening it's just that it's fundamentally wrong defending concept and I shouldn't have to fight with the CPU to override this happening.

This video illustrates it perfectly


At 2:23 there is danger but the back line are in a semi decent position, they then decide to sprint in the other direction from the ball. You could make a (slight) case for the covering defenders on either side even though they could have played the offside, but the defender in the middle simply backs up and creates a space from the human controlled player to move into.

That's not smart it's just bad game design and like I said, both the games do it.

 

[Nacho10]

That's Arsenal he's playing against and they have Deep Defensive Line on (who knows why tbh!?!) so they are absolutely guaranteed to drop deep.

 

[NathW90]

If you get your body in front, there's only two possible outcomes really, either you get fouled or you shrug off the player. I'm not sure how else that scenario can play out?

Whether players get there body in front to often/easily is a different issue I think to the actually outcome of shielding. I'm not seeing it happen overly to have an issue with it myself, also I think to have effective midfielders and to be able to hold the ball upfront with your back to goal it's a system that football games desperately needed, so i'll take too much instead of too little. In both games (though I've played FIFA much more in recent years) having a slow but skillful midfielder was pointless cause they couldn't create time and space in which to play in.

So you think Dybala being able to shield the ball 100% of the time from the likes of Sule and Pique is realism?

What happens is Dybala tries to shield the ball and as you say will either draw a foul, or the the bigger player will simply out muscle him. In this game the latter never happens, only the former.

Again, it doesn't matter who the player is, you can shield the ball from anyone 100% of the time and the defender has a 0% chance of winning the ball back. Don't try and tell me that's realistic. The game isn't perfect and this is one example of why.

 

[rockstrongo]

That's not my issue, I'm talking about when a pass gets played from midfield into the front line. The defense will automatically start retreating to allow the attacker to receive the ball in a couple yards of space. It's not that I concede from this happening it's just that it's fundamentally wrong

Probably the worst thing on Pes 19,I played it for a few days,that and the fact you can't retrieve the ball from the CPU when having its back turned either!
Hope that doesn't carry over to the full release ( that 19 issue) which was/is the biggest game breaker for me

 

[DigitalByDesign]

That's not my issue, I'm talking about when a pass gets played from midfield into the front line. The defense will automatically start retreating to allow the attacker to receive the ball in a couple yards of space. It's not that I concede from this happening it's just that it's fundamentally wrong defending concept and I shouldn't have to fight with the CPU to override this happening.

This video illustrates it perfectly


At 2:23 there is danger but the back line are in a semi decent position, they then decide to sprint in the other direction from the ball. You could make a (slight) case for the covering defenders on either side even though they could have played the offside, but the defender in the middle simply backs up and creates a space from the human controlled player to move into.

That's not smart it's just bad game design and like I said, both the games do it.

That’s what I do..It’s reducing the angles..There’s times I’ve seen it press the space more..but not allowing forwards to get in behind and using the midfield to mop up rather then risking having one of your last defenders turned,seems logical..

They get tight and try to win the first ball on long passes and don’t always sit off and allow that much free movement..It’s all dependent on attack/defense levels,height up the pitch of the back line..It’s obviously set to be deep in the demo for almost every cpu team in the demo.

 

[digimon]

So you think Dybala being able to shield the ball 100% of the time from the likes of Sule and Pique is realism?

What happens is Dybala tries to shield the ball and as you say will either draw a foul, or the the bigger player will simply out muscle him. In this game the latter never happens, only the former.

Again, it doesn't matter who the player is, you can shield the ball from anyone 100% of the time and the defender has a 0% chance of winning the ball back. Don't try and tell me that's realistic. The game isn't perfect and this is one example of why.

That's not true at all. Better tacklers absolutely can barge smaller players off the ball you just need to understand positioning. A combination of coming in at the right angle and double tap x

 

[fernadez]

So you think Dybala being able to shield the ball 100% of the time from the likes of Sule and Pique is realism?

What happens is Dybala tries to shield the ball and as you say will either draw a foul, or the the bigger player will simply out muscle him. In this game the latter never happens, only the former.

Again, it doesn't matter who the player is, you can shield the ball from anyone 100% of the time and the defender has a 0% chance of winning the ball back. Don't try and tell me that's realistic. The game isn't perfect and this is one example of why.

If you get your body in front of the player how can you get out muscled without being fouled? Shoulder to shoulder then yeah I agree with you it should be balanced. But if someone had the ball on the offside of the opposition player and he's on your back they can't run through you can they, and a tackle from behind is a foul.

 

[fernadez]

That's Arsenal he's playing against and they have Deep Defensive Line on (who knows why tbh!?!) so they are absolutely guaranteed to drop deep.

That's not what defensive line means though. Defensive line is the starting position a back line takes during play, higher or lower up the pitch in relation to their own attack, the aim being to contain the game in a certain space or conversely avoid leaving space in behind for the opposition to play in.

At team with a low block isn't meant to push high up the pitch to begin with. In no tactical book I've read have I seen a deep line been described as 'when the other side attack, run away from them as fast as possible then start camping'.

These comments make me sound like I'm not enjoying the game, but I am massively.

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

Not a console war bro(I love my pro and all those exclusives)..Pes is developed on pcs and scaled down for the consoles..

I don’t think it’s any surprise the X is outperforming the PS4 demo..Basic maths and numbers..It also looks a lot better..As I’m sure it does if you have a ubber pc and can increase the frame rate.

The reality the PS4 pro sounds like it’s taking off while playing Pes2020 demonstrates the cpu and gpu is being pushed to the max,especially trying to maintain 60 FPS and resolutions above 1080p.

I think you missed my point, I get the X is playing better and i know its a more powerful system but Konami have always been known to favour and put more effort into PES on PS and the other point being PES games tend to get worse the more dev time spent on them. PS4 version = more time spent on it = worse gameplay as you keep pointing out.

 

[DigitalByDesign]

That's not what defensive line means though. Defensive line is the starting position a back line takes during play, higher or lower up the pitch in relation to their own attack, the aim being to contain the game in a certain space or conversely avoid leaving space in behind for the opposition to play in.

At team with a low block isn't meant to push high up the pitch to begin with. In no tactical book I've read have I seen a deep line been described as 'when the other side attack, run away from them as fast as possible then start camping'.

These comments make me sound like I'm not enjoying the game, but I am massively.

I can tell your enjoying it...and lovely discussing it with you.

I don’t think there running away(your exaggerating),more adhering to the level of threat and playing it safe..I have seen the opposite,taking the risk with the last man and pressing and reducing the space.It does nullify the angle and make it difficult to get in behind the cpu(you have to be a lot more creative to score).

Your not wrong though..The cpu does tend to try to keep its structural integrity(especially at the back)..

Whether that’s a good or bad thing is always up for debate..But it’s something I do to..

More of a issue when it’s all the time which it isn’t.

 

[DigitalByDesign]

I think you missed my point, I get the X is playing better and i know its a more powerful system but Konami have always been known to favour and put more effort into PES on PS and the other point being PES games tend to get worse the more dev time spent on them. PS4 version = more time spent on it = worse gameplay as you keep pointing out.

Your getting me wrong..It’s the same code..Just not as optimised.

The hardware is struggling when the code’s load is at its greatest..FX,calculations and bandwidth demands.Aswell as resolution.

This effects controller input,physics calculations and framerate..This does negate gameplay on the PS4 demo at times.

It’s also not as smooth or responsive and the ball speed when passing is effected..It’s consistent on the Xbox X demo and isn’t prone to those weird instances of moving to fast or to quick(there’s fluctuations).There’s also not as many bugs.

Edit..Cursor response and speed is much better as is the speed it reacts and switches to the right player when the play and ball is moving quickly.

I’ve been playing the PS4 demo since release and have put in easily over 100 hours..The last three days I’ve been on the X..There is a clear difference for the better between the two..

If the final product is a clean as it is on the X..then I’m more then happy..If the PS4 version is as optimised at release then so will most people imo.

 

[OBH]

So you think Dybala being able to shield the ball 100% of the time from the likes of Sule and Pique is realism?

What happens is Dybala tries to shield the ball and as you say will either draw a foul, or the the bigger player will simply out muscle him. In this game the latter never happens, only the former.

Again, it doesn't matter who the player is, you can shield the ball from anyone 100% of the time and the defender has a 0% chance of winning the ball back. Don't try and tell me that's realistic. The game isn't perfect and this is one example of why.

I don't think that slight players should be completely unable to shield the ball, but I believe that the length of time that they can shield it for should relate to both players strength / current stamina etc.

The current implementation completely negates any need to play a tall striker besides winning headers. Traditionally, if you want to play a style of football which involves a lone front man holding up the ball and waiting for team mates you'd use a big man because you can ping it into his chest or his feet, but in PES 2020 it doesn't matter if you used Dybala, Ibra, or my nan, they're all equally good at that role.

 

[Alx1234]

Sounds like that PES 2020 is all about the cam only.
Broadcast cam is not customizable and the zoom at the sidelines is a killer.
Unless you meant the modded one, but since this is the console thread...

There´s a lot more imho...physicality and animations for example are levelled up compared to PES 2019.

But since you played one game only

Aha....I forgot about that stupid zoom on broadcast cam on 19 - very very annoying. [there is a mod on pc to disable it]

I now can definitely see the appeal of 2020 over 19 for the console players and the hype for release is far far easier for me to understand now.

Even if the modes/menus are not improved upon the cam makes enough of a improved difference. Roll on 2020 I guess (don't preorder though! ). I'll still await a discount.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Understandable, I found that having Messi as a CF meant I could never cross it cos he just doesn't win headers, and he gets absolutely shattered whereas Suarez isn't bad in the air, and can run himself ragged.

Plus, who wants Suarez to help defend anyway!? He scores goals man!

In the game maybe... but in real life...
not winning them but doing some!!

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

The issue with Messi is specifically when he's sprinting.

At walking pace he's incredible, you can twist and turn and as so long as you don't turn directly into a defenders foot he's incredibly difficult to tackle, but when you're sprinting, any player faster than him, no matter how average a defender he is, seems to be able to shove him off the ball with ease.

Personally, I find playing him as an AMF gets the most out of him because you can either play it directly to his feet and he then has lots of opportunities to play at walking pace, or play it into Suarez and he makes runs like this beyond him.

his balance stat is to low, or it's called something else. It's really asking a lot for Konami to get every player stat perfect. It's why we as a community should create a PES 2020 player stat thread.

 

[rockstrongo]

his balance stat is to low, or it's called something else. It's really asking a lot for Konami to get every player stat perfect. It's why we as a community should create a PES 2020 player stat thread.

If there's one player that should have the proper stats /playeri ID then it should be Messi,right?
Poster boy and Barca being premium partner.
Very weird if his stats isn't accurate!
Or kinda disgraceful IMO

 

[klashman69]

That's not what defensive line means though. Defensive line is the starting position a back line takes during play, higher or lower up the pitch in relation to their own attack, the aim being to contain the game in a certain space or conversely avoid leaving space in behind for the opposition to play in.

At team with a low block isn't meant to push high up the pitch to begin with. In no tactical book I've read have I seen a deep line been described as 'when the other side attack, run away from them as fast as possible then start camping'.

These comments make me sound like I'm not enjoying the game, but I am massively.

In PES, the 'Deep Defensive Line' is a real serious problem in how its setup by Konami, it can work well in certain context but Konami have been getting it wrong, very wrong how they setup the tactics by default, hence my tactics threads and work every year.

Its never ever supposed to be set to a team by default, it only really should be available as something used for changing on the fly to stop players from getting inbehind easily if a consistent problem is occurring for the AI, this works quite well when the AI use this to either stop giving away so many chances or even at times start damage limitation if they are getting battered.

When 'Deep Defensive Line' is set on by the CPU, if you manage to score against the AI, the game is basically over, you can pass it around your backline and they just sit back stupid, really stupidly and maybe 1-3 players chase you around. Really infuriating because the tactics are that powerful if setup correctly they can pressure you within an inch of your life if setup properly or give you the required pressure needed to get the ball away from your box. This is something i have heavily questioned Konami on! This must improve,

Some of these settings completely contradict the Tactics slider settings, defensive line 1-3 does exactly what 'Deep Defensive Line' does anyway, so if the line is set higher anywhere between 5-7 or especially 8-10 but if deep defensive line is set on, its just horrible and contradictory.

This doesn't help Arsenal have two DMs set which totally unbalances the 3-4-1-2 formation in midfield as the two DMs drop back far, far, far too much by default, they should be set to CM's as 3-5-2 formations absolutely do not work with DM's! 3 center backs is enough, no need for another DM! Setting up the two in the middle to be CM's is important so the midfield is balanced and meets the opposition higher up the pitch for interceptions.

All in all, Arsenals formation is crap in the demo and fundamentally doesn't work well at all.

 

[real022]

I have played a few online games as Barca.
All of matches were agains Juventus (maybe 4 or 5). One draw and all loses.
I was with default formation and just could not get together.
It was like playing in slow motion while my opponents were all over the pitch.
-Every match -All different opponents.

I am mostly winning, with Bayern. Played also with other teams without problems. But Barcelona seems like it is broken?
I tried different tactics..still the same. Slow motion, Barcelona players just react extremely slow???

BTW when I play against Barca, I did not pay attention yet, but I think that I have lost only once in a more than..idk, 20 games..I just thought that my opponent does not playing great and that there is no issues with Barca.

Only players who is half decent is Coutinho and Pique.
Messi could not keep the ball for more than one second. Suarez have nice shooting abilities, but it is really hard to get in the position, because, once again, everything is just too slow?

In the same evening I`v switched to Bayern, and is all good. So I guess it is not some lag issue...

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

If there's one player that should have the proper stats /playeri ID then it should be Messi,right?
Poster boy and Barca being premium partner.
Very weird if his stats isn't accurate!
Or kinda disgraceful IMO

well, whoever at Konami hasn't been to good at it, 2017,18,19 all have player stats out of wack. But it's hard to do this because you need lots of player opinions, because what i see might not be accurate to others. I'm sure it's hard to do this. But Konami should be putting more effort into this area, by updates throughout the year. This is what makes PES is player stats, so player feedback updates should be mandatory. They do this in there baseball game and a great job at it, so go figure.

 

[klashman69]

funny you say that. just last night when playing on top player i had the same thought...
i put that thought away and kept on playing!
i dont have time nor effort to give placebo any room! ...i said to myself!

Lol well it seems to have changed for the better.

 

[piccolo_bsc]

We have the lead against Bayern right now, please add Hertha BSC as a partner club.