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Do you update player stats ?

A

a_toetae

Guest
Do u update player stats ?

ex. henry agility 88 -> 92

I want to update player stats but when i compete with my friend with normal stats i will lose :(
 
excuse me , but who should be the one deciding that it is 92 ?
 
why u don't think henry should has more agility ..he is so lighting
 
exactly i know he is a great player but yeah why 92 ?? why not 93 or 91 as rune said


i feel the game actually get ruined by these edits ,
 
Thats how I feel. I understand the reason why people want to update stats but who decides how fast or how good his technique should be?
Although I dont agree, I respect PLF for creating a system and a standard for his custom stats which atleast makes more sense than Konami's stats. But even PLF is only human and he only gives an opinion.
 
Don't bring me into this please whether you respect my edits, love it and use it or you hate it and you don't! The edits I do makes the game "More realistic" and it goes way beyond little 'questionable' things like tweaking Henry and deciding whether he should have 88 for agility or 90 or 92.

The things I edit are more like for just one example, a player who has a lot of shot power (Yes nobody can decide if its 90 or 88 or 92 for sure and opinions will differ on that small range but it's clearly a LOT of shot power) but in the game because he's not known like Roberto Carlos and others, he's given 65 simply because he plays for a lower club and has lower reputation or he's just an unknown quantity (For now that is. Yet he's the same player who in few years will be known and Konami will eventually give the right rating too which is pretty high and capable one for shot power.) Yet do we have to wait for Konami's dumb researchers to realize this and play game unrealisitcally until that happens?? No!

Take a look at this one example of an edit we did monthsssssss ago!
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=609110&postcount=2309

There's nothing about this that makes the game more inbalanced or unrealistic. Yet it does make it more realistic by turning a player who had many fundamentally "Wrong attributes" meaning he only had his real life "Name! and that's about only accuracy he got from Konami" more realistic by giving real life strengths (Such as being well built and having strong shot and also real life weaknesses by making him more dependant on his left-foot even!). It's not a case of just simply "upping" someone's stats as one can see and he wasn't anything 'special' before nor after the tweaks I gave him yet it did make him more closer to real life and that's the purpose of "Editing"! This is just one example.

So don't bring me into this stuff when the topic is should Henry get 88 agility or 90 or 92 :lol: and say things like I respect PLF but he's only human and gives opinons when it's not related to me or to what I do!

There is 10000 mistakes like that in Konami's database every year because what they bother to change is a few updated stats for those whom they consider important like (Messi and few other well-known players) yet all those mistakes even from last version of game which we already fixed and enjoyed realistic stats for "months ago" is still there to be seen in the newest version of game even (WE10) and for those of us on thread to laugh at!

And that's the sorta editing I do and that's why every single one makes game more realistic and accurate because after I'm done with it, every team as in real life has their real life "Dangerman", real life good 'Solid hardworker/determined player(s)", real life "Two-footed" player, real life "Good header".

While in original database, many of those teams' players set of skills aren't distinguished at all! They're just a bunch of players with correct names (most of the times) and quite a random set of stats and all pretty much like each other except if one player is very popular in that one team in which case they often even "Over-rate' him!

Yet in original database, many of these teams don't even have a single player who can take good FK's :lol: (Why cux it's like that in real life? No I can promise you even every 2nd division club has at least few people in its team who are "capable" of taking and bending a nice FK from time to time and scoring", it's simply like this because Konami didn't bother and care for researching those teams properly!).

So therefore knowing just how bad the "original database" is, for me the ability to "Edit stats/data" is a good thing because it allows us to have way more realistic gaming than we ever could with the original database and my thread is a testimanet (sp?) to that as literally 1000's have gathered from "Different nations, different club supporters" who found more joy and realism and accuracy with my file and testfied to that than the original crap which I can see/name 100 mistakes in each team within a glance.

Note: (Remember I don't call something within 1-5 range "mistakes", because that's not a mistake, that's about opinions but if Henry had 65 for agility and Rooney had 60 for shot power, wouldn't that be a mistake? Surely that'd still be about opinions but yes I'd call that a mistake!! That's the sorta mistake I talk about. Not my personal opinion of thinking so and so should have a few more or less points in this or that!).

So yes it's a very good thing however I'd be very careful with it and if one day I didn't have the time to put in this work myself and 'Delperio' wasn't here either (As he's the only man I trust beside myself for this stuff cuz he proved it to me time and time again that he does have the right standard and also incredible amount of knowledge!) then I'll probably take the original database over "any other stat updated ones"! This is my personal opinion! Because for me "Editing stats" is great but it's also something you need to be very careful with! If the man behind the edited stats doesn't fully know what he's doing (Standard wise, knowing exactly what each attribute does, etc.), this can potentially be a very bad thing to use and make the game more "inbalanced" or give it "Flaws" basically due to an even poorer done database than original one!

So is it a good thing after all? Yeah it's a great thing if done correct and you can see the results and get the proper enjoyment out of "PES/WE" when you play with or against those edited teams and you see them acting like in real life thanks to now correct formation/arrows (The ridiculous default arrows and tactical selections of Konami gone to replicate real life movement of those players) and the correct stats but you also need to be very careful with it as it's a "Touchy" subject and if not done correctly, can cause problems and displeasures!

So that's my 2 cents and seeing as how you guys will probably argue on and I don't have the time these days to come back here and give my thoughts again as much as I'd like, is why I ask to just be totally left out of this altogether and not brought in! You can discuss among yourself if editing is good or not but don't bring me in it especially when you don't have enough understanding of "What it is we do on thread exactly and truly how much better without a doubt it makes the game".

Hopefully you can respect my decision!
 
Last edited:
Zygalski said:
TLDR
Click to expand...
What does that mean?

PLF said:
Don't bring me into this please whether you respect my edits, love it and use it or you hate it and you don't! The edits I do makes the game "More realistic" and it goes way beyond little 'questionable' things like tweaking Henry and deciding whether he should have 88 for agility or 90 or 92.

The things I edit are more like for just one example, a player who has a lot of shot power (Yes nobody can decide if its 90 or 88 or 92 for sure and opinions will differ on that small range but it's clearly a LOT of shot power) but in the game because he's not known like Roberto Carlos and others, he's given 65 simply because he plays for a lower club and has lower reputation or he's just an unknown quantity (For now that is. Yet he's the same player who in few years will be known and Konami will eventually give the right rating too which is pretty high and capable one for shot power.) Yet do we have to wait for Konami's dumb researchers to realize this and play game unrealisitcally until that happens?? No!

Take a look at this one example of an edit we did monthsssssss ago!
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=609110&postcount=2309

There's nothing about this that makes the game more inbalanced or unrealistic. Yet it does make it more realistic by turning a player who had many fundamentally "Wrong attributes" meaning he only had his real life "Name! and that's about only accuracy he got from Konami" more realistic by giving real life strengths (Such as being well built and having strong shot and also real life weaknesses by making him more dependant on his left-foot even!). This is just one example. So don't bring me into this stuff when the topic is should Henry get 88 agility or 90 or 92 :lol: and say things like I respect PLF but he's only human and gives opinons when it's not related to me or to what I do!

There is 10000 mistakes like that in Konami's database every year because what they bother to change is a few updated stats for those whom they consider important like (Messi and few other well-known players) yet all those mistakes even from last version of game which we already fixed and enjoyed realistic stats for "months ago" is still there to be seen in the newest version of game even (WE10) and for those of us on thread to laugh at!

And that's the sorta editing I do and that's why every single one makes game more realistic and accurate because after I'm done with it, every team as in real life has their real life "Dangerman", real life good 'Solid hardworker/determined player(s)", real life "Two-footed" player, real life "Good header".

While in original database, many of those teams' players set of skills aren't distinguished at all! They're just a bunch of players with correct names (most of the times) and quite a random set of stats and all pretty much like each other except if one player is very popular in that one team in which case they often even "Over-rate' him!

Yet in original database, many of these teams don't even have a single player who can take good FK's :lol: (Why cux it's like that in real life? No I can promise you even every 2nd division club has at least few people in its team who are "capable" of taking and bending a nice FK from time to time and scoring", it's simply like this because Konami didn't bother and care for researching those teams properly!).

So therefore knowing just how bad the "original database" is, for me the ability to "Edit stats/data" is a good thing because it allows us to have way more realistic gaming than we ever could with the original database and my thread is a testimanet (sp?) to that as literally 1000's have gathered from "Different nations, different club supporters" who found more joy and realism and accuracy with my file and testfied to that than the original crap which I can see/name 100 mistakes in each team within a glance.

Note: (Remember I don't call something within 1-5 range "mistakes", because that's not a mistake, that's about opinions but if Henry had 65 for agility and Rooney had 60 for shot power, wouldn't that be a mistake? Surely that'd still be about opinions but yes I'd call that a mistake!! That's the sorta mistake I talk about. Not my personal opinion of thinking so and so should have a few more or less points in this or that!).

So yes it's a very good thing however I'd be very careful with it and if one day I didn't have the time to put in this work myself and 'Delperio' wasn't here either (As he's the only man I trust beside myself for this stuff cuz he proved it to me time and time again that he does have the right standard and also incredible amount of knowledge!) then I'll probably take the original database over "any other stat updated ones"! This is my personal opinion! Because for me "Editing stats" is great but it's also something you need to be very careful with! If the man behind the edited stats doesn't fully know what he's doing (Standard wise, knowing exactly what each attribute does, etc.), this can potentially be a very bad thing to use and make the game more "inbalanced" or give it "Flaws" basically due to an even poorer done database than original one!

So is it a good thing after all? Yeah it's a great thing if done correct and you can see the results and get the proper enjoyment out of "PES/WE" when you play with or against those edited teams and you see them acting like in real life thanks to now correct formation/arrows (The ridiculous default arrows and tactical selections of Konami gone to replicate real life movement of those players) and the correct stats but you also need to be very careful with it as it's a "Touchy" subject and if not done correctly, can cause problems and displeasures!

So that's my 2 cents and seeing as how you guys will probably argue on and I don't have the time these days to come back here and give my thoughts again as much as I'd like, is why I ask to just be totally left out of this altogether and not brought in! You can discuss among yourself if editing is good or not but don't bring me in it especially when you don't have enough understanding of "What it is we do on thread exactly and truly how much better without a doubt it makes the game".

Hopefully you can respect my decision!
Click to expand...
I understand you dont want to waste your time on this but let me make something clear.
This topic isnt about Henry, its about stat updating in general. Henry was just an example.
I'm only saying that I dont agree with stat updating but if you decided to update them anyway, you should do them right like you and a few others do.
You seem to be offended by my post when I said your stats are only an opinion. (EDIT. I guess we cleared this up on MSN)

But I dont think you understood what I meant by opinion. When you put a stat figure on Henry's speed or Rooney's shot power, etc, its obviously impossible to have a 100% accurate number for it. So you're right in saying that its acceptable when you put it within the 5 stat range.
But what I mean is something different. Lets take Saha for example. I personally feel he should have a high (or above average) aggression stat and this is clearly seen in real life. I think its fair to say we would both agree on this. You might for example give him a 87, I might give him 94. This is perfectly normal as we both see this is an area that needs updating, but we might have slightly different standards (another thing I'll explain later). BUT if some next guy came along and claimed to be Saha's biggest fan and said he has good knowledge of the sport, what if he believed aggression isnt one of his strengths and maybe it should be around 75? He might watch as much football as us but he might be seeing things differently on the pitch. He cant be wrong cuz he has the knowledge and he might even use your standards for setting stats, but he just doesnt agree that Saha's attack aggression as something he has a lot of in real life. He might even be able to justify is reasons well to. So in this situation, whose stats would you go with? This is something that wouldnt be answered. And with stats (like you said, its a touchy area), I'd either want it perfect (or atleast close to) or left as default.
Heres another example of different opinions. Lets look at Robben. Some say he's a diver and its obvious that its almost a part of his game. But its also very clear that the boy has great skill and balance. Now when someone made his stats, one person would say he should have good balance. But another person might argue that he goes down a lot so his balance should be low to add realism. The problem here is that Robben has great balance in real life but chooses not to use it. So either way, its gonna be right AND wrong. You can give if good balance but he'll rarely hit the floor, you can give him low balance but then he cant produce the great dribbles and skill that he's capable of. Another similar player is Rio Ferdinand. He has shown MANY times that he has good dribbling skills when he goes forward. The problem is that he hardly ever goes forward cuz he CHOOSES not to. An even better example of this is how we give all outfield players 50 for goalkeeping skill. Some outfield players are decent Gks. Rooney (a little known fact) used to be a GK himself so he'd obvious have more than 50 since 50 is a joke for goalkeepers. But cuz these players choose to not play in goals, we cant assign the right stat for their ability.
All of this was using examples so you might think they are extreme cases but there are some stats/areas that I believe should be at a certain level but many wont agree with me including you cuz I might be seeing things differently. I know I'm not wrong in my judgement cuz I would be able to back up my opinion with valid reasons.

Now this is ONE reason. Another reason are that stats themselves. I personally dont think Konami did a good job with creating the stats (not assigning). Take the balance stat for example. This stat means how good the players balance is (duh) AND also a sort of "power" stat. Players with high balance are more able to outmuscle other players in the game.
Now what do you do when you have a player who has good balance but cant outmuscle players, like Cristiano Ronaldo?
Another problem with the stats is the Shot Accuracy stat. Seabass (I'm sure PLF knows this) said in the guide that this stat is different from others. Every stat in the game would normally give you a little increase everytime you raise it by one point. This is also the same with Shot Acc until you reach 95. Apparently, once you reach 95, the increases get much bigger. So from 92 to 93, theres a little increase, 93 to 94 another little increase, 94 to 95 is ANOTHER little increase, but 95 to 96 is a large increase in skill and makes a much more difference. And its the same between 96 to 97, 97 to 98, and finally 98 to 99. So clearly, your 5 stat range would be messed up here. Plus how do you assign players who are only slightly better than 95? You cant have 95.5 :lol:.

My third reason is, players change every day. One day a player might pick up form and might even be included in his national squad. And then in a months time, he might become errr... shite. :mrgreen:.
People arent gonna update stats every month or so, are they? And if you made a patch, its always gonna be outdated. And even if you DO decide to release the patch, what is supposed to be the cut off date for players form?
Another thing to think about is this. Lets say you decide to do stats, team by team. First you pick Fulham, you do their stats, then you do another EPL team, and another, then you move onto another league. This is all gonna take quite some time like it does for PLF and others. But by the time you reached your last team, what if your opinion on your first team (Fulham) has changed? You'll have a database thats almost like a time line. Assuming it takes you a month to research each league, its be like, EPL has stats for January, Bundesliga has updated stats till February, Serie A is done based on March, etc. This could only work if you had a huge team of people all doing it at the same time and agreeing to have it complete on ONE date. This is how developers would do it (take manager games for example, those are researched player by player, by many people).
One person has too much on his hands if he wants to updates stats alone. What if someone decided to research EVERY player in the game and by the time he finished, some had career changing injury? or even worse, retired? :lol:

This is why stats can never be perfect IMO. Its too big of a task. We can laugh all we want at Konami's attempts but if it was actually possible to do by one person, they probably would have hired him by now.
Me and PLF have agreed to not get sucked into a debate over this. These are our opinions. Now lets just hear yours.
 
Personally I don't like to update player stats myself, even though it is blatantly obvious in certain cases that some stats need to be tweaked, a perfect example is what PLF referred to with free-kick accuracy etc., so many teams don't have one player in the 90's, thats ridiculous.

However if you start updating stats, where do you stop? Like Rune mentioned above, stats change over time, players dip in form etc, get old and loose pace or whatever. I prefer to just leave the stats as konami has them, I mean who am i to judge wether someone's accelleration is 68 or 78, no more so than the developers at konami.
 
Titch said:
well said plf
Click to expand...

Great points in there PLF! You really have shown me and so many others just how awful the database is that I really don't think a lot of poeple truly realize. It takes great knowledge to recognize just how poor it is and the fact that you've made it so much better is a great thing and we salue you for it. You've made me play this game more than I ever did and I enjoy it so much because of you. The bad thing is of course as mentioned on thread many times, each person you send the file to gets infected with what is now commonly known as "PLF Syndrome" ;) and this is why sadly because of you ](*,) I now can't enjoy WE10 properly and am still playing PES5 until you can get the stats sorted out for WE10 too by transferring hopefully when editor is out there's just too many mistakes that we have fixed on PES5 to now go to WE10 and see all of it htere again, just kills the joy for game and turns me off!
 
RuneEdge said:
This is why stats can never be perfect IMO. Its too big of a task. We can laugh all we want at Konami's attempts but if it was actually possible to do by one person, they probably would have hired him by now.
Click to expand...

Konami doesn't even know how important the database is.. ;)

Well said Total about how many of us who has followed PLF's work has realised how important the database is and of course mentioning the well known "PLF Syndrome".. :D

@PLF
The things you've said in your post.. Spot on! Spot on!
You should link this thread or quote your own post when topics like these are being discussed.. Save your 2 cents.. ;)
 
@PLF

I like the way you say "Don't bring me into this please" and then continue to write an essay about it.

:applause: :applause: :applause:
 
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