Discussion of the AI for PES or WE

[Special4988]

My first post here, but I believe this is an important topic. I also didn't see any posts this much in-depth about the AI of this series. So here goes...

Anyways, I completely enjoy the WE series since I bought WE9 for the PC last year. I then bought WE2007 for xbox 360 this year. I felt Konami made huge steps in the right direction for overall gameplay realism and mostly in AI behavior. But I am also a realist and understand there is some room for improvement regarding the AI for the next game in the series.

Here is a few areas I would like to see the AI improved in...

1. Counter-attacks: Even on the difficulty top-player the AI opponent doesn't seem to attack with full speed on a counter attack even if they have good numbers. The only time I see the opponent AI use full speed is on the wings or if they have a breakaway. I feel the AI offense would be 10X more dangerous if it could counter-attack more effectively. They seem to pass the ball around too much and sometimes even backwards even when they have numbers in their favor.

2. Corner kicks: Something odd I noticed about WE9 and WE2007 is that in WE9, the cpu AI would sometimes indeed do a short pass instead of crossing it off a corner kick. However in WE 2007, I have never once seen the cpu AI do a short pass off a corner kick. They always just cross in relatively the same spot. So I would like to see more variety out of the cpu's corner kicks, (short pass, long cross, short cross, cross to the outside of the box).

3. Shooting: I will say we2007 made a huge advancement in this category compared to WE9. But... there is still some upgrading needed. I do enjoy the fact the cpu AI will shoot from afar, (outside the box). but I would like to see them able to put more shots on goal and utilize their long shot specialty players, (Ballack, Gerrard). I would also like to see the cpu to take "smarter shots". What I mean is that sometimes they seem to get confused and pass by a very good shot opportunity and pass the ball to a covered player. This seems to happen way too often. I would also like to see more one-timed shots by the cpu if the space is available.

4. Top tier players: If C. Ronaldo has the ball, I want to be scared... but in WE2007 he seems just as effective as a back-up winger from the China national team in the hands of the AI. I would like to see great players be reflected more so in the next edition of this awesome series.

My final note, this series owns me... I am still playing WE2007 and I offer these suggestions only to improve the game, (my point of view of course). I would love to have other folks chime in on what they think of the current AI and would they would like to see improved from a AI standpoint. As you can tell I don't really care to play online, but instead my friend and I love to play on the same team vs the cpu in a cup or a league... so much fun =)

 

[jonestm]

Defense and keepers AI is so obviously bad, i guess that's why you didn't mention it.
How many times a game can players bang into the post ffs?
The ai of sidebacks makes me want to punch someone.
I'm too angry to complete mt post, sorry.

 

[winston]

I'm too angry to complete mt post, sorry.

This is what has become so wrong with PES. It makes people angry.

I sincerely hope Mr Seabass has taken note of the growing anger people come to these boards with after playing his game. TeamVision must not be a next-gen cheating model.

People can handle losing when it's their own fault. I have played many games where I've not won but I know it's because I made a mistake, wasn't fast enough, etc.

People know when they have been cheated. With PES, all too often you can see that you've been cheated. That is never going to leave a good taste in the mouth. That is not a sign of a good game.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

This is what has become so wrong with PES. It makes people angry.

I sincerely hope Mr Seabass has taken note of the growing anger people come to these boards with after playing his game. TeamVision must not be a next-gen cheating model.

People can handle losing when it's their own fault. I have played many games where I've not won but I know it's because I made a mistake, wasn't fast enough, etc.

People know when they have been cheated. With PES, all too often you can see that you've been cheated. That is never going to leave a good taste in the mouth. That is not a sign of a good game.

You summed it up pretty good there.

I feel you have too little control in PES. More often than not, you feel that the game made you loose, instead of you playing badly. If you miss a pass, it is the games fault, since there is no way to aim your passes yourself and influence the game that way. If you miss three penalties and loose a penalty shootout, it's the games fault, because all you could do was press a direction and shot. There is no way to choose if the player should shoot very hard or place it softly, and whether he should aim at the very egde of the post, or if he should focus on getting it on goal etc. So when you miss, you feel screwed by the game.

This also means that there is o way to improve your skill in passing or penalties, since there is no skill moment involved at all.

This is what pisses me off the most. By simply implementing analog support, and giving us more control, they could improve the game tenfold. It's such an easy thing. No need to spend months on mocap sessions and improving animations. How about letting us aim our passes or penalties rather than surrendering our wills to the game?
Yet they never do that. They don't let us control how hard passes should be. Instead they spend the time between PES5 and PES6 tweaking the pass speeds, as if they somehow think that a universal solution exists for every situation on the field. And so there I am, cursing my mouth off when my player decides to strike a 20m pass slowly enough it takes 10 minutes for the ball to arrive, and it gets intercepted. If I was in control, I could have chosen to strike the pass alot harder to avoid it being intercepted. But woth no control over pass speeds, this tactical aspect is lost completely.


Just writing this also makes me upset. Upset they are not realizing the potentials of the game. Give us some control over penalty aiming, so that we can blame ourselves when we miss.
I would love to strike a pass, miss it, and then being able to blame myself for not giving enough power. It would be a reason to go to the "Training" mode and practice this aspect to improve. It would mean that I would be able to improve myself and be more skilled than less experienced players.
Currently, the difference between someone who has played the game 3 years, and someone who has played it a month, is nonexistant. I strike a pass by pressing the x button. They do the same. How's that for depth of gameplay...


Random ramblings I know, and I've written it lots of times before. But I need to every once in a while.

 

[drekkard]

I agree completely, and occasionally I also write that into the forums. The thing is, instead of giving more control to the player, thay have gone the opposite direction, pes6 is even worst than pes5. Do you remember in pes4 how easy it was to do the supercancel? Now it's not working properly. The game is dead, they won't change anything in next-gen versions, only subtle things. They need to redo the engine again, from scratch, and they won't because they are already selling millions. That's what upsets me, the more they win, the less efforts. I don't like this kind of people.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

I agree completely, and occasionally I also write that into the forums. The thing is, instead of giving more control to the player, thay have gone the opposite direction, pes6 is even worst than pes5. Do you remember in pes4 how easy it was to do the supercancel? Now it's not working properly. The game is dead, they won't change anything in next-gen versions, only subtle things. They need to redo the engine again, from scratch, and they won't because they are already selling millions. That's what upsets me, the more they win, the less efforts. I don't like this kind of people.

I know, that's why I have high hopes for PES2008. After the recent years slight yearly tweaks, I am just glad we are finally seeing something happening, even if that is only still images of Ronaldinho and C. Ronaldo. I can't wait to see it in motion, because I am curious if the first words out of my mouth are going to be "Wow" or "what the eff is this".

 

[kouroux]

I agree completely, and occasionally I also write that into the forums. The thing is, instead of giving more control to the player, thay have gone the opposite direction, pes6 is even worst than pes5. Do you remember in pes4 how easy it was to do the supercancel? Now it's not working properly. The game is dead, they won't change anything in next-gen versions, only subtle things. They need to redo the engine again, from scratch, and they won't because they are already selling millions. That's what upsets me, the more they win, the less efforts. I don't like this kind of people.

You're so spot on,it's a shame you feel like Konami have in front of them a superb but broken swiss watch but they don't wanna fully repair it.