Creating A New Football Game

Should we make an arcady soccer game or a realistic one?

  • Arcady Game (Much quicker and easier to make, higher probability of a released game)

  • Realistic Game (Will take much longer and lower probability of being released)

Results are only viewable after voting.
If one day, you're advancing in your project, and need some advice about stats and how to make them works to "feel the game" and also discussing about "how should i do to rate players" ask me, no problem.
I was already in the past building a project like this. You will need standards, scales, etc.
But i gotted a better idea than that. To improve aswell AI, and players identity, without being too difficult.

In fact, it's not really stats, it's more mentality related. What's new on this is : it's weaknesses representation > it would be sliders vs stats. Some for CPU, some for both you and CPU. And those sliders will confront stat.
Very simple example so you can understand better, it's a CPU slider, a player with high slider in "Dribbling frequency" but low in "Dribbling" (accuracy etc.).
If you want to represent an AI simple and effective, that's the way.

But whatever the system, no tons of stats if you do them or 99, but i precognise stats rated on 20 with natural correlations with playing styles (negative and positive)
 
Chris Davies said:
Oh good. Another eSports focused soccer game. Just what we needed. We only had two already.
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Esport Boxing Club is called "Esport" but they didn't forget to add a career mode and make the game complete.
Is that the end of complete game for all VS type? It looks like only games such as GOW, Darks Souls, The Witchers, GTA, will still on the full game market.
But i'm pretty sure that the upcoming Street Fighter, or Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Ao Tennis 3 or World Tour, some FPS (sorry i'm not too much into FPS) will be F2P.

I don't really care about the name, sincerely, lack of inspirations... Esport, Efootball, Ebasket, etc. as long as the game is good. And Esport Boxing looks super good, even better than any fight night of any UFC.

As i already said, i gotted in reduction Street Fighter V, and i was Mehhh?? There nothing! Not even the Story Mode...
Just for that, if i wasn't bored a bit ftm by fighting game i'm playing since more than 25 years, i would have buyed Mortal Kombat, at least it's a complete game, and the DLCs are special characters not related to the game except one or two not that important. Same for Tekken 7, you can buy Negan some old character who were on a certain Tekken but not super important..

But SFV, i saw some DLC it was like Ryu, Ken and Chun Li on it (of course it wasnt, but Guile or Honda level). I was like is that a joke? Capcom SF will be the next when i do the math.
 
lazanet said:
I have seen a lot of shitty games created in UE and Unreal. Heck, Gameplay Football has an engine that is written from scratch using OpenGL and SDL.

Choice of game engine is really only a small part of overall game development process, and all of the shortcomings of Godot engine can be removed by contribution to an open source game engine by an experienced programmer. Also, creating a game that would become a poster child of the whole engine puts it in a very good spot regarding first party support from engine developers.

This isn't only question about a monetary part, it is also a question about larger perspective. PES modding community was always heavily reliant upon reverse engineering and hacking of proprietary engines. I've been there and done that. You can also ask nesa24, juce and sxsxsx, they will all confirm how thrilled they were about staring at disassembly for dozens of hours in order to provide you all with a way to change turf length and camera zoom.

With fully open source stack several things are guaranteed:
1) Every aspect of the game and its engine can be modded, since all of the source code is available.
2) Full source code will always be available. Even when there are drastic changes to OS's and hardware are introduced, people will be able to port the entire code-base and use it as they see fit. For example, there is no reason why this game shouldn't be portable to Raspberry PI or to a new version of Windows without some nasty bugs and workarounds (like those we need to use for PES6 ATM).
3) There is no external dependency on a big company, nor its ecosystem, which ensures that project is free to be governed by its community.

When I presented this proposal I have taken into consideration what other modding communities did when they ventured into creating alternative engines for playing their favorite games. Some examples of that are:
1) GTA modding community that created excellent re3 - engine written from scratch that can run GTA3, GTAVC and GTALCS at the moment.
2) Elder Scrolls modding community that created excellent Morrowind clone called OpenMW (also written from scratch)
3) Half Life modding community with their excellent Xash3D engine (written from scratch to be compatible with original GoldSrc engine)
4) Transport Tycoon Deluxe community that released their game OpenTTD on Steam.
5) RollerCoaster Tycoon community that created OpenRCT2
Thing that all of those have in common is that they are built using 100% open source stacks.

Thing is that we as a PES community don't need to create something that is binary compatible with original assets, which enables us to reuse some existing game engine. Still, trading all of above-mentioned positive sides for the shiny finish of a commercial engine, and thus turning modding community into pure consumers is something that I'm personally not OK with.

I don't know your technical background so I'll respond based only from what I have read from your posts in this thread.

From what I've been able to discern, your plan was to buy marketplace assets, animation systems and scripts, get someone to link it all using visual programming language and then call it a day. Games that are developed this way are called Asset Flip games. Not only are those frowned upon by game critics, they are almost unilaterally badly reviewed by users. You can find tens of thousands of them that are created using UE on Google Play store.

You are right that Godot would be awful for that kind of project, since Godot lacks any sort of support for easy "asset flip" creation. Every bit of code would need to be written from the scratch or ported from Gameplay Football. This would be unfeasible for script-kiddies, but extremely doable for any group of experienced programmers. That said, porting Gameplay Football to the new engine, with same or better graphics is 100% possible and it is a straight-forward way for this community to have a working game engine with good gameplay in a reasonable time frame.

"Blueprint" is not at all a new idea. I was using similar programming paradigm in Game Maker 6, back in 2005. Eventually every developer there migrated to GML script when faced with increasing complexity of his code-base.

I wish you all of the best with your project idea, although I'm doubtful about its feasibility. I spilled my 2 cents here as my contribution to this discussion, but (as I announced in the original post) I will pursue my idea regardless of these developments.

EDIT:

It is made using Blunted2 engine which is 3D, not 2D. Original author advised maintainers to move gameplay to some other game engine, since it is already decoupled from the engine logic.
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my man... im so agree with you.. godot for the win!
 
Bump.
I wonder what happened with this project, some good ideas around and would’ve definitely liked to see it takeoff, I wouldn’t have been able to contribute something with programming and stuff like that but a group project fan made football game with realistic gameplay would rule.
I link this as this could be a way to animate realistic movements.
 
Abdouibra said:
Bump.
I wonder what happened with this project, some good ideas around and would’ve definitely liked to see it takeoff, I wouldn’t have been able to contribute something with programming and stuff like that but a group project fan made football game with realistic gameplay would rule.
I link this as this could be a way to animate realistic movements.
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That research is done for EA so I guess that we could see something from it in NBA Live (if they ever bother making another of those), FIFA or other sport games.
 
Ermolli said:
That research is done for EA so I guess that we could see something from it in NBA Live (if they ever bother making another of those), FIFA or other sport games.
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Fifa should use it imo, with the development team it’ll be easier and a lot quicker them doing it than say one person using it to make a football game, and we could finally get a game with fluid and realistic animations.
 
Hayes said:
This project aint going nowhere without big money involved.
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We're not even close to that unfortunately.
This project doesn't even have the key people, at the moment. We're just a bunch of guys who said "I can do this, I can do that" but there's no structure, no team, nothing.
How will the DB be made? Is it gonna be relational? A bunch of files with hex data, like in PES? XML like FIFA? And why? Who'll decide that?
How will the 3D models be? We can't just borrow them from FIFA or PES and call them our own, you know...

Who's gonna be the "game director", the one that ultimately has the last say on development? And why?
Are we gonna have an "ART director" too? Someone taking care of graphics, 3D models and such? Seems like an important role to me...
Who's doing QA? This is even more important than naving an art director! The code is going to have bugs. How are we gonna find them and make sure they won't get past the testing stage?

Only then, when we have clear what we'd like to achieve (and possibly with which tools) we'll have to talk money. And we'll have to be willing to lose a considerable amount of it in the process.
For example, I'll be more than willing to lose the 13€/month of the Adobe CC subscription if it's helping me make kits... Someone else would spend time (= MONEY!) coding, and such... With no assurance that the game will ever see a release date of course!

Look at UFL: they've been making it for 5 years as far as I understand, and it's not released/playable yet (look at their video with the game's fails).

I'm not saying it's impossible, someone did it already (SimBin anyone?) but it's not that easy, that's for sure.
 
*aLe said:
We're not even close to that unfortunately.
This project doesn't even have the key people, at the moment. We're just a bunch of guys who said "I can do this, I can do that" but there's no structure, no team, nothing.
How will the DB be made? Is it gonna be relational? A bunch of files with hex data, like in PES? XML like FIFA? And why? Who'll decide that?
How will the 3D models be? We can't just borrow them from FIFA or PES and call them our own, you know...

Who's gonna be the "game director", the one that ultimately has the last say on development? And why?
Are we gonna have an "ART director" too? Someone taking care of graphics, 3D models and such? Seems like an important role to me...
Who's doing QA? This is even more important than naving an art director! The code is going to have bugs. How are we gonna find them and make sure they won't get past the testing stage?

Only then, when we have clear what we'd like to achieve (and possibly with which tools) we'll have to talk money. And we'll have to be willing to lose a considerable amount of it in the process.
For example, I'll be more than willing to lose the 13€/month of the Adobe CC subscription if it's helping me make kits... Someone else would spend time (= MONEY!) coding, and such... With no assurance that the game will ever see a release date of course!

Look at UFL: they've been making it for 5 years as far as I understand, and it's not released/playable yet (look at their video with the game's fails).

I'm not saying it's impossible, someone did it already (SimBin anyone?) but it's not that easy, that's for sure.
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Why do not take PES 21 as a base and introduce major improvements inside the code of the gameplay since creating a new game is almost impossible
 
Well, I guess Konami would obviously (and rightfully) sue the Hell out of every single one of the modders involved, should something like that happen.
It's not like you can take the code of a closed-source, commercial game and say "hey, let's make some changes to it and release it as my own!"

Some ideas, you could take. There's nothing stopping you from taking inspiration from PES 2021... But not the code, of course. That is property of Konami.
 
*aLe said:
Well, I guess Konami would obviously (and rightfully) sue the Hell out of every single one of the modders involved, should something like that happen.
It's not like you can take the code of a closed-source, commercial game and say "hey, let's make some changes to it and release it as my own!"

Some ideas, you could take. There's nothing stopping you from taking inspiration from PES 2021... But not the code, of course. That is property of Konami.
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Fuck konami at this time, they quit PES 21 to start embarrasing efootball. Just use PES 21 as a base to start.
 
guorfan said:
Fuck konami at this time, they quit PES 21 to start embarrasing efootball. Just use PES 21 as a base to start.
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No this was already done by someone here, you can't just use a product that's still owned (Yes, we all would love to see an advanced version of PES 21 but that's straight up illegal). As @*aLe it's not an open-source project

It's not very impossible to make a football video game, you just need to start with something original, you might want to be inspired by other games and undone project, that's totally okay! Have you seen "Gameplay Football", it's quite descent although its author gave it up and no more wants to continue it, but still he made great progress, it doesn't really matter how many years will it take you to make a new game, but as long as you have the required pieces together (Dev team, management, etc...), then you don't really have to worry about time.
 
The Moroccan said:
No this was already done by someone here, you can't just use a product that's still owned (Yes, we all would love to see an advanced version of PES 21 but that's straight up illegal). As @*aLe it's not an open-source project

It's not very impossible to make a football video game, you just need to start with something original, you might want to be inspired by other games and undone project, that's totally okay! Have you seen "Gameplay Football", it's quite descent although its author gave it up and no more wants to continue it, but still he made great progress, it doesn't really matter how many years will it take you to make a new game, but as long as you have the required pieces together (Dev team, management, etc...), then you don't really have to worry about time.
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Hahaha I understand you mate, yeah its complicated at this point but with all these mods... modifying game and including uefa competitions we have not violated service terms enought? besides gameplay changes, licenses, etc
 
The Moroccan said:
No this was already done by someone here, you can't just use a product that's still owned (Yes, we all would love to see an advanced version of PES 21 but that's straight up illegal). As @*aLe it's not an open-source project

It's not very impossible to make a football video game, you just need to start with something original, you might want to be inspired by other games and undone project, that's totally okay! Have you seen "Gameplay Football", it's quite descent although its author gave it up and no more wants to continue it, but still he made great progress, it doesn't really matter how many years will it take you to make a new game, but as long as you have the required pieces together (Dev team, management, etc...), then you don't really have to worry about time.
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also look at UFL they have an entire development team and after years of development the game is on a terrible state so...
 
guorfan said:
also look at UFL they have an entire development team and after years of development the game is on a terrible state so...
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UFL Look terrible because they trying to be FIFA and not to be a new game that brings something new to the table.

Like I said in the past , for new game we need fundraise like kickstar or even patron .

There many games that developing by small groups ,
And what is needed is mostly normal gameplay and you can initially compromise on graphics etc.

Licenses etc. of course should not (because it costs full money) but as it grows it is possible to move forward.

If there is such a thing here I will be the first to support financially and if possible I will even join a group in marketing (that I have such knowledge of it)
 
You're also talking like all the world turning around PC.
PES from 2015-2021 and Fifa 15-21 were probably more sold on PS4, One i don't know (Fifa more than PES for sure).
Steam etc. is not were it's the most played. If it was possible, i would like everyone to play it.

But i don't think it's doable except if there's a solid based Football Open Source engine coming from nowhere (and advanced, +- from this gen not Gameplay Football) and some advanced devs starting to work on it. Mods are easy in comparison to recreate a game.
I just know in terms of marketing that the first thing to do is to buy at least Fifpro licence + an big edit mode, then some deal with console(s).
Personnaly, instead of what PES did, i would suggest a website to download stuffs like on some others games : with any kits, teams, full data etc. with the mention "we're not responsible if X is looking like etc.". Needs a lawyer for that.

Lots of games do that, AO Tennis i think got that system of creation and downloading players if i'm right.
 
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cant even blame them

at this point a fun game "like fifa 11" with less handicap, scripting and pay to win would be the best in the market
 
I'd say PES 2011 and 2017 as bases. These seem quite well balanced to me.

PES 2017 has very good Vanilla gameplay, to me the most similar to PES 5/6 from the more recent games (and 5 and 6 are masterpieces).. PES 2011 is my favorite out of that generation, it has great midfield battles and I've always liked the pacing.. I also liked FIFA 11 and FIFA 15.

Anyway, eager to see where this goes. :)
 
millossobek said:
I'd say PES 2011 and 2017 as bases. These seem quite well balanced to me.

PES 2017 has very good Vanilla gameplay, to me the most similar to PES 5/6 from the more recent games (and 5 and 6 are masterpieces).. PES 2011 is my favorite out of that generation, it has great midfield battles and I've always liked the pacing.. I also liked FIFA 11 and FIFA 15.

Anyway, eager to see where this goes. :)
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i like pes 2017 aswell
the problem with these new PES are that they are heavily scripted, difficulty itself its only based on scripting

u play some pes 5 and feel de AI way more human than in these new pes'es
 
I'm just tired of all the crappy football games nowadays. I'd be happy to play a properly next-gen game even without any kind of license, with just a single stadium, fake players name etc. but at feeling something new and innovative, something that imo is missing since FIFA introducing the 360° angle movements with the left stick. It's time to something new and Evo is the only place where a kickstarter could start this kind of project.

captain8lunt said:
a nice gesture mate but what would be needed is the skilled people like you to get on board together, i would love to be involved in something like this but dont have the expertise to do much but modelling and from what little i do know, even if a team of experts were to start it would take a long time to get the gameplay anywhere near playable, and like the poster above said it would need a kickstarter and people in 100% and success would be very very very tough
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Agree but why we shouldn't try? Again, even just reaching a friendly mode with a proper good gameplay would mean reaching the goal :)
 
IbraCadabra96 said:
I'm just tired of all the crappy football games nowadays. I'd be happy to play a properly next-gen game even without any kind of license, with just a single stadium, fake players name etc. but at feeling something new and innovative, something that imo is missing since FIFA introducing the 360° angle movements with the left stick. It's time to something new and Evo is the only place where a kickstarter could start this kind of project.



Agree but why we shouldn't try? Again, even just reaching a friendly mode with a proper good gameplay would mean reaching the goal :)
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My point was we should try but more than anything a competant coder is needed which most of us arent
 
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